Talk:Person of Jewish ethnicity

"Moderately derogatory"

Whoever wrote this had no understanding of Soviet life. There were two reasons for the official introduction of the term. First, the Russian word 'Yevrey' (Jew) was treated as derogatory, following the fate of the word 'Zhid' (ru:Жид mediaeval usage; still preserved eg in Polish 'Żyd'). It was not derogatory 'per se' (the real slur was 'zhyd'), but it carried a distinct connotations of "not one of us" and "those who take advantage of us". The second reason was "forced secularization": "Jewish ethnicity" was an apposition to "Jewish faith", or Judaism. And of course, this production of the Soviet newspeak, together with many other its coinages became part of the mockery of the Soviet establishment: in common speech of "dissidentish" people the phrase was used as a joke, rather than an insult. Of course a racist hater can pronounce any name for any ethnicity with an insulting intonation and intention: "descendants of Moses" may just as well be an elaborate insult, as well as a neutral biblical reference, depending on the context. -No.Altenmann >t 14:52, 17 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Meaning of the expression in Russian society/culture

Speaking about this edit [1], here is how these expressions are described in various contexts [2], [3], [4]. There are two issues here:

"A person of Jewish ethnicity". The key word here is "ethnicity" (национальности). This is not "Jew lawyer", "Jew ethics", Judaism, Jewish people or someone with a "Jewish background" (as cited in the source just included). This is an ethnicity understood as a combination of genes, pretty much along the lines of the racial antisemitism. The included reference tells about something different, i.e. " the attributive use of the noun Jew". It therefore belongs to other pages, although might be noted here.
"A person of Caucasian ethnicity" - Yes, these expressions came from the Soviet bureaucracy/ Soviet "newspeak" ("Лицо" rather than "человек"), but it is widely used right now in common language (see linked examples above). My very best wishes (talk) 03:11, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In other words, you included the following: "It is widely recognized that the attributive use of the noun Jew, in phrases such as Jew lawyer or Jew ethics, is both vulgar and highly offensive..." The same happened with the Russian word: еврей [references]. No, these references do not say that "the same happened with the Russian word: еврей...". This is WP:OR. My very best wishes (talk) 03:22, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sarnov

Benedikt Sarnov, as cited in our article, wrote: " It was precisely for these loyal, law-abiding Jews a special, not condemning or exposing, but an impersonal, neutral euphemism, mentioned by Voinovich: “Persons of Jewish nationality” was invented."

Well, it was not exactly so. Sarnov is a writer, not historian, and he wrote of his personal experience, rather than research. In fact, the expression was used it the context of antisemitic campaigns in reference to the Jewish conspiracy, who occupy all good positions of importance, i.e., a case of xenophobia and not at all as a reference to "good Jews". I am lazy to search for good refs, just keep this in mind. (By the way, the same problem of expertise is with refs to RL and RFE/RL. e.g., they say that [the origin of the term] " was due to the relatively massive exodus to Israel in 1970", which is verifiably false.)

Regarding "person of Caucasian ethnicity", in my experience, its origin is not that sinister. It came from law enforcement slang as a reference to persons of Caucasus origin: as you may know, there are dozens of ethnicities there and they look alike for an average Russian, just as Chinese, Koreans, Japanese are all "Asians". Therefore for them a nondiscriminating term was used, just as confiscated golden things were described as "made of metal of yellow color". A similar expression is "лицо среднеазиатской национальности" ("a person of Central Asian ethnicity") for Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Tadziiks, etc. - Altenmann >talk 20:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I agree there is a clear similarity here, hence the USA-related content belongs to the page. But so is the content about "persons of other ethnicities" because: (a) such connection is made in multiple sources (all RFE/RL links above and on the page), and (b) all these expressions are derogatory in Russian including "лицо среднеазиатской национальности" (no, this is not the same as "Asians") My very best wishes (talk) 17:30, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]