Talk:Positive hardcore

How I picked the bands

Some of these bands may have an individual or two in them, or may have one or two points of view, that some people in the scene think are less than positive. My own prejudices about this kind of stuff led me to list bands I more readily think of as "positive" first, but I added more and more bands in the spirit of being comprehensive, and not trying to put one person's perhaps too limited point-of-view to reign over the whole subject of what is and what is not positive hardcore until someone else changes the article.

In that spirit, I'd like to remind everyone that Wikipedia is supposed to be an information source, and not a place to advocate for one thing or another that is really in dispute-- so that if you want to take a band off the page, you'll remember to have a really good reason to do it before you risk pissing some people off, and not just some stupid reason (in my opinion, bad reasons: you made an incorrect conclusion that such-and-such singer of such-and-such band was being a dick because he wouldn't talk to you after he played a set (but little did you know, the guy was just too fucking tired to speak to fifty people he doesn't know for two hours after driving for 15 hours in a van and then playing an hour-long set in a crowded club); a friend of a friend of a friend told you the person said some smack about one of your friends; or the person set up a show and wouldn't let your friend's band play for some reason).

Also I realize some people may discourage the naming of new genres because they feel like we don't need more labels in the scene. I myself am one of those people who, instead of thinking that anything in hardcore that isn't positive has to be negative, thinks that hardcore in general is kind of positive, even if it has some nicks and flaws, and that positive hardcore is merely more positive. But people in the scene have already been using the word for a while, starting bands to specifically be "positive" hardcore bands, and generally making the distinction. Also, I think that people who are concerned about new labels needn't be so concerned in this case, because it seems to me like the sincere, genuine believers in positive hardcore see positive hardcore as a vehicle for acceptance, unity, and inclusion. I know there are a lot of kids who are into newer types of hardcore (like progressive hardcore and all that screamo stuff) who are more or less snobs and are ignorant about a lot of people who have been involved in hardcore for a really long time, but from my point of view (and I admit I haven't been to a live show in a while) it seems like the people and bands who specifically focus on positive hardcore are mostly a positive development. Correcting people's misperceptions, talking things out and trying to reach an understanding are the ways to improve the scene, not suppressing stuff.

Swan Mc (talk) 02:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)Swan Mc

References

I didn't include any references for this article. I think it fits into a category of being something that lots of people who are familar with the punk rock and hardcore scene would be able to tell you about or would be familiar with, but that would be really hard to find a printed reference to.

This is because the most likely sources for the kind of references Wikipedia usually asks for would be in obscure zines that wouldn't be too easy for the average person to find, anyway, and that are more likely to only include something like a passing reference to positive hardcore that doesn't explain what it is than they are to have something like a definition of positive hardcore from someone everyone familiar with the scene would agree is an authority.

If people want to reference mentions of "positive hardcore" that appear in album covers, and list those in a reference section on the bottom of the page, I think that would be good, but I don't own any of the records/demos myself anymore. That is probably about as good a reference as you are going to find for this.

And again, it's not that this doesn't merit a Wikipedia article, it's just that hardcore kids don't do things like sit around writing magazine articles that define terms from the scene like positive hardcore.

Swan Mc (talk) 20:00, 22 June 2008 (UTC)Swan Mc

Minor Threat shouldn't be on the list

Minor Threat most definitely wasn't posi-core. Almost all of their songs were very angry, and often negative. The only song that could be considered posi is Straight Edge. Out of Step may work, ("At least I can fucking think"), but "I can't keep up; I'm out of step with the world" doesn't sound like the most happy, go-getter thing to say. Either way, one or two songs do not give a band its identity, especially when all its other songs conflict with it. I'm taking Minor Threat off the list.

Wall Screamer (talk) 16:31, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

delete

This page is not very good... it needs some serious revision —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.62.33.5 (talk) 02:49, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

a question

i came to this article to find something out, and found that it wasn't in the article itself. i wanted to know if the beliefs listed (opposition to violence, veganism, straight edge, etc.) are necessary to being posi-core. ie if a band sings about all the other beliefs except for, say, veganism, would they still be posicore? i believe this should mentioned in the article to some extent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chokngvctm (talk • contribs) 04:22, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

John Walsh

John Walsh as in the guy who was in Nerve Centre? I agree he should be on the list but how is it that he doesn't have a wikipedia article? I heard his solo stuff on myspace years ago and thought it was amazing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.160.176.39 (talk) 10:42, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

This page is ridiculous

First, the Bad Brains back in 1979 were spreading the idea of PMA, Positive Mental Attitude, which significant in two ways, because not only is it the beginning of positive hardcore, but because the Bad Brains practically invented hardcore music, period. It is nearly impossible to overemphasize how influential their message became in the early hardcore punk scene. They inspired bands like Minor Threat and various Better Youth Organizations.

As a side note, it is alarming to me that not one reference is made on the Bad Brains page about their philosophy (inspired by Napoleon Hill's "Think and Grow Rich") which was in so many of their songs lyrics (such as "Attitude")

Anyway, the article is inaccurate; positive hardcore is not a response to straight edge, which came later. Rather, straight edge was seen as an extension, or subset, of positive minded hardcore.

Whatever references claim otherwise are mistaken and uninformed. "Positive hardcore", unlike straight edge, has no definite boundaries or rules that must apply across the board. Minor Threat (who were straight edge) was as much a positive hardcore band as 7 Seconds and Token Entry (neither of which was ever straight edge) and as much as a band like the Bad Brains (who used marijuana). And while the Bad Brains preached unity and positivity, they were also famously known for the nasty scandal with the Big Boys. So, there's no rules to really outline who "qualifies" or doesn't as positive hardcore.

"Posicore," on the other hand, became a term used beginning around the early to mid 90's to describe bands playing in the "youth crew" style popularized by straight edge bands on Revelation Records or Wishingwell Records and so on.

Personally, I think this page is kind of silly and unnecessary if it omits the larger historical backdrop, namely, what was at least originally, the influence and spread of a positive viewpoint espoused by the Bad Brains. There is already pages dedicated to straight edge, under which "posicore" falls as a sub category. There are a plethora of references and books detailing the history of hardcore that could be cited. American Hardcore by Stephen Blush or Dance of Days by Mark Anderson and Mark Jenkins are two well known sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.10.20 (talk) 06:33, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Merge

This needs to be Merged with Straight edge. probably will be. CombatMarshmallow (talk) 17:40, 17 July 2015 (UTC)