Talk:Proto-Celtic language

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ECardwell.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Phonation system

Eska (2018), Celtic-Germanic Lexis in Light of Laryngeal Realism, Proceedings of the 29th annual UCLA Indo-European conference proposes that Proto-Celtic contrasted aspiration rather than voice, primarily on the grounds of (1) this found in the modern Celtic languages and (2) "pre-Grimm's Law" loanwords from Celtic to Germanic show PC *ɸ *t *k *d *g → PG *f *θ *x *t *k, in his view better seen as PC *pʰ/ɸ *tʰ *kʰ *t *k → pre-PG *pʰ *tʰ *kʰ *t *k. Perhaps worth mentioning as a minority view? --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 17:13, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The contrast in aspiration in Welsh, for instance, is only in certain environments, e.g. after /s/ /ɡ/ is [k] and /k/ is [kʰ] though <sc> is rare. Even in these circumstances the understood phoneme is /ɡ/ and not /k/, i.e. Welsh contrasts voicing, not aspiration, contrast in aspiration is allophonic. – Dyolf87 (talk) 14:59, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ablative

In Proto-Indo-European language, only thematic nominals had a special ending for ablative in singular. Did Proto-Celtic language develop separate ablative endings for all athematic nominals (in all numbers)?--Ed1974LT (talk) 18:25, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I desire clarification

Recently the word desirative, purportedly a PIE verb form, was changed anonymously to desiderative. This was reverted by Riverbend21 as "not constructive".

The word desirative in this sense has a handful of Web attestations, but far more redirections to desiderative. —Tamfang (talk) 00:08, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree the correct term is desiderative. —Mahāgaja · talk 13:30, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Noun type reflexes

Would it not be more beneficial to show Irish and Welsh (as a minimum) reflexes of the nouns in the noun-stem charts? At least an idea can be gleaned, at a glance, of their developments. – Dyolf87 (talk) 10:35, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wording issue

"Proto-Celtic, or Common Celtic, is the hypothetical ancestral proto-language of all known Celtic languages"

I wonder why it says "known". Isn't Proto-Celtic by definition the ancestor of all Celtic languages, whether currently "known" or not? 2A00:23C8:7B0C:9A01:C9EB:6EC5:109B:CB6E (talk) 19:57, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the known is intended to suggest that unknown languages cannot contribute to the reconstruction. —Tamfang (talk) 04:58, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Where does the 1300-800 BCE come from?

From the lede: "Proto-Celtic is generally thought to have been spoken between 1300 and 800 BC, after which it began to split into different languages."

Where do these dates come from? What analysis was performed to derive them? The Book of Invasions, Lebor_Gabála_Érenn, is now considered mythology. We have DNA evidence of Indo-European migrations throughout Western Europe circa 3000 BCE which look very much like maps generated by the Kurgan_Hypothesis. For anyone who is not well versed in Celtic Languages, Google translate can help give you some perspective when considering timelines related to the evolution of Celtic Languages: [1]https://translate.google.com/?sl=en&tl=gd&text=My%20cow%20does%20be%20eating%20grass%20and%20drinking%20water.&op=translate Gortaleen (talk) 16:28, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]