Talk:Richard I of Normandy

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Birth date confusion

The text give 933; the birth cat gives 935; and the Library of Congress authority file has ca. 932; is there a way to reach a consensus? LC uses the Grand Larousse Encyclopedia from 1964 as one of their sources--FeanorStar7 (talk) 11:46, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wives and Mistresses

A database I am researching on RootsWeb indicates that Richard I had a wife or mistress (it says wife) between Emma of Paris and Gonor; it names her as Pappia. They are supposed to have had two children. Does anyone know if this is at all likely, since the article says definitely only two wives and hazards two mistresses? I noticed his son Richard II had a wife by the name of Pappia, which the RootsWeb entry does not have. The RootsWeb database is probably incorrect but I was wondering if anyone knew anything more definite. --Teh fontmaster (talk) 19:46, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, the term mistress is a cultural term from a Christian point of view. Richard married Gunnora More_danico, a Latin term meaning in the Danish custom. They were married, just not in the eyes of the Christian church. To be respectful of their culture, one should not use biased terms like mistress and concubine (though typically Christian historians have tended to use these terms).

Secondly, Emma was the sister of Hugh Capet, and they were the children of Hugh "The Great", Duke of Paris. Emma and Richard are said to have been betrothed from a young age, but did not marry. When Hugh "The Great" died in 956, Richard became the guardian of Hugh Capet. It is claimed his marriage to Emma in 960 was to strengthen his position politically. It is very possible he never lived with Emma, but kept her (finanically) in comfort in Rouen. She died circa 962. Under more danico, a Norman man could have more than one wife and not be considered a bigamist. This practice allowed for polygyny (having multiple wives) and was recognized as legal in Normandy. The first three dukes of Normandy, including Rollo, practiced more danico marriages. Since the Church did not recognise a more Danico marriage, the first church marriage was not considered a second marriage.

Thirdly, Richard and Gunnora lived together until death. They married in accordance with Christian tradition circa 968. This is claimed to have been mostly to legitimise (in the eyes of Christian traditions) their children. However, it is difficult to say precisely if any of the children of Richard and Gunnora were born prior to 968. The birth of Richard II (fifth Duke of Normandy), and Robert, Count d'Evreux (Robert II, Archbishop of Rouen) are not known precisely. According to medieval canon law, a marriage performed in the Christian church conferred legitimacy on any children born to the couple, even if those children were born before the marriage (www.historyskills.com).

Forthly, Addressing your specific question. Richard II, 1st marriage to Judith of Brittany, issue: Richard III, fifth Duke of Normandy; Alice (Adelaide) of Normandy, Countess of Burgundy; Robert 1, sixth Duke of Normandy; William of Normandy, monk at Fecamp Abbey; Eleanor of Normandy, Countess of Flanders; Matilda of Normandy, nun at Fecamp Abbey. ...2nd marriage (c.1018), Papia of Envermeu, daughter of Richeldis of Envermeu. Issue: Mauger, Archbishop of Rouen (following the death of his uncle Robert in 1037); William of Talou, Count of Talou. (rootsweb was mistaken if they claimed Papia was a wife of Richard I).

I hope this helps your research. Posted by Stiofan Ó, 9 Nov 2024. 2001:8003:1443:400:400F:A21B:563E:292A (talk) 05:11, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Counts of Paris

The article says "In 968, Richard agreed to "commend" himself to Hugh, Count of Paris. He then allied himself with the Norman and Viking leaders, drove Louis out of Rouen, and took back Normandy by 947." Later it says he became the guardian of the young Hugh (Hugh Capet I suppose) after the elder Hugh's death (presumably Hugh the Great). But what is the proper order of the first sentence? 968 obviously does not come before 947...is there a date wrong? Adam Bishop (talk) 16:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Children

The children here do not match ES II, 79, which is the best source I know listing his children. Unless someone has a better suggestion I'll align them as per that source. Can adjust as more sources are found. Bearpatch (talk) 04:12, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

More Children Queries

There is not agreement between this article and Gunnora's article concerning the children they had together. This page lists them as having Geoffrey, Count of Eu as a son who does not appear on Gunnora's page, and his own article says his mother is unknown. Then Gunnora's article lists a son called Robert Danus, died between 985 and 989 who does not appear on this article. I'm no historian, but I would have thought the two lists would be the same. Cottonshirt τ 14:58, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring and undue...

This edit is being spammed across multiple articles and is undue in an article on Richard. Please read the note left on your talk page and learn to edit properly. --Ealdgyth (talk) 16:09, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]