Talk:Roan (horse)

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Quick question

I may be being incredibly dense here, but what is the difference between this article and Roan (color), except that this article is specifically about horses and that one includes other animals? Is there a reason to have an article specifically about the color in horses? Not trying to be super-critical, just wondering... Dana boomer (talk) 02:00, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm OK with it if the cleanup gets done. All other horse colors except brindle have their own article (even though there are black dogs or gray cats), so I think that we can just toss the redundant material from the Roan (color) article and put in a "main" link there. Also, CC usually winds up adding a TON of genetics stuff to the color articles, which is quite useful (see her first GA, dominant white). It does have the elegance of being more consistent with other colors as we edit for putting in proper piped links. Dun gene is still an odd name, and probably will be for a while, and no way around chestnut (coat) as Chestnut horse and chestnut color are already taken by other articles. But the "what links here" needs to be redirected for all our horse articles... Montanabw^(talk) 03:36, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Follow up: Between what was already linked as roan (horse) (Was there a previous redirect here??) and the 50 or so I just took a whack at, we are about halfwya through cleaning up and properly redirecting the links from roan (color) to here. I'm officially passing the ball to someone else to crunch these for a while -- watch out also for links to just "roan" the disambig page, I pulled three out of the gray horse article.. :-P Montanabw^(talk) 07:45, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Allright, works for me. I think between CC and myself we've managed to get the rest of the links from roan (color) and just plain roan redirected properly - thanks Montana for starting on that project. The article is looking good - possible WPEQ's next GA? Dana boomer (talk) 15:51, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A work of art, corrected links! Great teamwork, all! This does have a shot at GA, yes. CC, remember that pint of beer I left on your talk page? Wanna try another GA run? Maybe we can ask Ealdgyth to do the pre-GA review. Oh, one thing, the new wiki-requirement is Alt text, Dana are we going to need that for a GA run or do they only get anal about that for FA??? Montanabw^(talk) 01:02, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alt text is just for FAs at this point, GA doesn't require it. Dana boomer (talk) 02:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh that Strawberry Roan

My only concern is the cite for the inverted V's bit. It's true, and I am the one who put that info in the original roan article, but the link is dead. The photo may still be valuable, but I have yet to find a good source for the comment. Also, the photo arrangement at the top of the article is a little hairy. Countercanter (talk) 14:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC) I lied, I have another concern. I understand why the term "bay roan" was added, and strawberry and red combined, but the list is specifically for colloquial terms that don't follow the naming rule of underlying color + "roan". I'm going to separate them again, and take out bay roan. Countercanter (talk) 14:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bay roan has to stay, at least with the designation that it's the official term used by the AQHA, and they are the big dog in the roan pile, at least in the USA. (I know, I kicked too, as I was taught that bay roans were called red roans and chestnut roans were Strawberry roans, and NOT red roans, but stuff changes...) We may need to do multiple citations. Montanabw^(talk) 19:51, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fine that bay roan is mentioned, but the list is of colloquial terms, which bay roan is not. Countercanter (talk) 21:09, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll peek at the changes. The line between a colloquialism or not is a thin one...blue roan, for instance... you want to have great fun, though, look at the color section of Fjord horse. I had a nightmare getting that all explained in normal terms because Fjord aficionados have completely different technical lingo and were yelling at me for saying that their "grey" horses were really duns... =:-O Montanabw^(talk) 00:01, 7 October 2009 (UTC) "Follow up': I tweaked the section to just avoid splitting between terms, it was too complicated the other way. Hope it is still readable. Montanabw^(talk) 00:24, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have to disagree. Bay is a word for a regular coat color, thus bay roan follows the rule. We don't call horses "blue" or "strawberry." I understand that you want to have the terms reflect what we consider the three "base" colors, but maybe you should make a second list for that. Countercanter (talk) 15:26, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The question is if we want a "list of weird words" (grin) or a "list of common terms." Actually, given that other roans (champagne, etc.,) are just plain rare, the problem we have is old versus new terminology: When I was a kid, there were red roans (bay), strawberry roans (chestnut) and blue roans (black) hence, all three terms were "weird words." Genetics not being understood as well then as now, anything else (palomino roans, etc.) really just weren't discussed, and if they were, there were more weird words (honey roan, etc...). Now, it appears that, combining modern genetic knowledge but also the usual ignoring of historical horse terminology that seems to permeate the entire industry these days, we are moving into "base color + roan" terminology, but bay roan is the only one that sticks for the three base colors. I guess my question is what is understandable to the average horse-crazy 12 year old that is going to find this article...? Montanabw^(talk) 17:13, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

analogues

I'm a little bit surprised that there is no "See also: Siamese cat". Has such a comparison been discussed and rejected? —Tamfang (talk) 21:32, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure I see why. Not at all the same. Roan isn't a dilution, the dark face and legs aren't points. Siamese cats have point coloration, which is the genetic analogue to the bay (horse). Montanabw^(talk) 03:17, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]