Talk:Robert Rosen (writer)

Conflict of interest, neutrality disputed, other problems

Most of this largely uncited and unfooted article comes from editor User:Mr. Paraiso, who appears to be a single-purpose account for promoting the works of this article's subject — one of whose pseudonyms, according to this article, is "Bobby Paradise."

WP:BLP states that claims made for or by living persons must meet a very high standard of reliable sourcing and footnoting. Many of the claims in this article appear to be from personal observation, violating the policy of no original research, and is non-neutral in that is paints favorably slanted portrait of the individual BY the individual.

The conflict of interest vios aside, this article needs to be cut down immensely in order to provide only reliably sourced and footnoted facts, from third-party sources, and without the use of uncited WP:PEACOCK claims such as "best-selling." I would separate advice editor User:Mr. Paraiso to desist from seeding Wikipedia with his promotional advertising for an ostensibly upcoming book that may or may not achieve notability threshold by Wikipedia standards. Please note the Wikipedia policy WP:NOTADVERTISING. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:15, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

"Best-selling" status is cited on "Nowhere Man: The Final Days of John Lennon" page as follows:

Nowhere Man was a bestseller in the United States (Los Angeles Times, September 3, 2000), England (Mojo, October 2000), and Japan (Amazon.co.jp, October 2000). The book also became a media phenomenon in Latin America when Random House Mondadori brought out a Spanish-language edition in 2003. Extensive coverage and major excerpts in such publications as Proceso [1], La Jornada [2], El Universal [3], Reforma, Semana, Gatopardo, Soho [4], El Heraldo [5], El Mercurio [6], La Tercera [7], Las Últimas Noticias, and The Clinic propelled Nowhere Man to bestseller status in Mexico and Colombia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.66.21.225 (talk) 03:18, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

The information about US, UK, and Japan has been added to article. Information about Latin America has not been added to avoid redundancy in Nowhere Man and Rosen articles.

Information on Rosen's testimony at the copyright infringement trial can be found in footnoted source [1] in the articles "DOUBLE THEFT - ROSEN TESTIFIES" and "SETTLEMENT! SEAMAN LOSES PHOTO RIGHTS--APOLOGIZES TO YOKO, JOHN AND SEAN." Much of this information is in "Nowhere Man," as well. Information on "Beaver Street" can be found in footnoted sources [3] and [4]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.66.21.225 (talk) 12:17, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Additional information on trial, specifically the part about control of 300 photos, can be found on Frederic Seaman page in Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.66.21.225 (talk) 12:21, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Given that editor 74.66.21.225 is also an SPA that adds information about Rosen's work, and given such hype phrases as "The book also became a media phenomenon", this IP appears to be Rosen himself or his publicist. Using an anonymous IP doesn't alter the fact that [{WP:COI|conflict of interest]] and self-serving promotion is out of place at Wikipedia. This article needs objective editing by someone other than the subject of the article. This article needs to be rewritten by an objective party in order to fix the issues noted in the tags. -- Tenebrae (talk) 20:11, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't "Observation Post" come after "Early Life and Education" if you're doing it chronologically? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.66.21.225 (talk) 14:12, 23 December 2009 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by FrickleFrak (talk • contribs)

Overhaul

Note: in effort to achieve a neutral POV, remove original research, and establish verifiability, I removed all material and facts that aren't verifiable by a third party source. Because of Rosen's potential closeness to the topic, I also removed facts stated "only" by Rosen in his interviews, etc., unless they were further verified by a third party.

Edit Log

• Much of the information was simply supported by Wikipedia mirror sites, with no "original", non-first person source. For example, what could potentially have been a good bio on SFGate ( http://topics.sfgate.com/topics/Robert_Rosen_%28writer%29 ) is in fact a mirror of the Wiki page.
• I removed material sourced only in the several "blog interviews" he has. (example: http://www.lukeisback.com/bloglukeisback/stars/stars/robert_rosen.htm )
• I also found no proof for his 1996 Hugo Boss Prize poetry award, so removed the information.
• I found no third-party (or even second-party) proof he served as a speechwriter for U.S. Air Force Secretary John L. McLucas, or wrote articles about it. The original text referenced that he these articles: Rosen, Robert. "Nervous Leaks at the Pentagon", Mother Jones (November 1979), and Rosen, Robert. "Ground Zero Paranoia", Rush (October 1976)

• I would have left the extended "Observation Post" section about the nuns, as there IS good proof that the events described did occur. However, since there's no proof Rosen was editor at the time (though the Karma reference does quip that he worked on the school newspaper in the "early 1970's, along with Fred Seaman"), there's no proof it even applies to his entry.

• I LEFT the section on "Nowhere Man", as, hallelujah, it actually had a third-party reference! However, I removed the claim it was a bestseller. (In much of Rosen's material he claims the book is "best-selling", but there is no other third party english material whatsoever supporting this information. I would have looked to Amazon (which claims on one bio page that his book is "best-selling"), but Amazon then claims that the bio was written by either Rosen or his publisher.)

• I removed the section claiming Rosen interacted with Yoko Ono. She herself has published no material I could find hinting that they've interacted after the original journal debacle. I recommend this section be added back in if proof can be found.
• Several small websites (almost solely John Lennon fan sites) have had interviews with Rosen. These I considered including, except that, again, it's Rosen's voice still coming through. The interviews just post what he says, they do nothing to VERIFY what he says.
• He has contributed to several medium-size english blogs, such as:

http://www.worldheadpress.com/robert-rosen-108 I have to assume that the shorts bios on him are doubtless information that again is supplied by Rosen himself. Opinions?

• Corrected titles and descriptions of external links
• left birth date and birthplace, even without a third-party source backing them up.
• He claims his work has appeared in Uncut, Headpress, La Repubblica, Proceso, Reforma, VSD, El Heraldo, and The Clinic. I removed the text until third party sources backing this up can be produced.

To build back up

Now that the page is down to bare bones, verifiable information, I recommend other editors help by adding more verifiable information back in. I'll admit, however, that I had great trouble finding further third party sources.

move to Spanish Wikipedia instead?

Much of the material about this man is in Spanish, and in some ways, Spanish Wikipedia might be a more appropriate place for the entry. FrickleFrak (talk) 18:59, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

References

Lennon diary controversy

Section was removed in this edit. Here are some sources that can be used to restore the section.

Rosen claims that his portrayal of Lennon’s last years is in part based on the musician’s own diaries, which came into Rosen’s possession under bizarre circumstances. Shortly after Lennon’s death, Fred Seaman, Ono’s personal assistant and Rosen’s friend, approached the author about writing an unauthorized biography of Lennon. Seaman leaked confidential information to Rosen, which the author carefully recorded in his notes. In May of 1981, Seaman stole Lennon’s original journals from the Dakota apartment and gave them to Rosen. Rosen says he worked for months transcribing every detail. Needing a break from his exhausting work, he left on a vacation to Jamaica. When he returned, his apartment had been ransacked and the diaries and his notes were gone. It was later determined that Seaman had stolen the journals back from Rosen after Ono had fired him. Rosen then began the arduous process of reconstructing the lost material entirely from memory.

The book is loosely based on Lennon's own diaries, written between 1974 and 1980, which were given to Rosen after Lennon's death by former Lennon-Ono assistant Fred Seaman. It turned out, however, that Seaman had stolen the diaries; he was sentenced to five years' probation.

Four of the diaries were returned by a former Lennon employe, Fred Seaman, who pleaded guilty last month to stealing them.

Fred Seaman worked for the Lennons from 1979 to ‘81; he pleaded guilty in 1983 to stealing four journals and was sentenced to five years’ probation.

In 1983, Mr Seaman pleaded guilty to second-degree larceny for stealing Lennon's diaries. He was sentenced to five years' probation and ordered to return all the property.

Isaidnoway (talk) 04:10, 13 October 2024 (UTC)