Talk:Rugby union/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

History

I think the history needs a huge clean-up. First of all, it needs to be a lot more general, and does not need to be so detailed...

• Information should not jump between eras (ie. talking about WWE, and then saying he would later be honored by the William Webb Ellis cup etc..
• Do we need so much info of the first football clubs?
• The IRB was called the IRFB at first...
• The info about rugby's introduction into NZ is a bit random, perhaps talking about the global spread in colonies and so on would be better
• There is too much info about the 1895/1908 splits
• Shouldnt it mention early football in USA?
• It then jumps forward an odd 100 years to the 95 WC...(wheres the 87' WC, France banned from the 5N...)
• Whilst theh formation of IGRAB is important, listing the various clubs is not really needed
• Also, we need to mention the rise of the womens game from teh 1990s, first couple of WCs, IRB support..
• There is no need to mention specifics like the 2003 WC, whilst it should be there somewhere, its not the place to metion how Woodward resigned etc etc...
• The All Blacks winning % is off-topic...
  • I think we need to rewrite this section completely, what does everyone else think?? Cheers. Cvene64 14:42, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The Woodward bit got added because somebody from the Southern hemisphere put something in about the sport having been dominated by SA / NZ / Aus, which is a) POV b) a bizarre POV immediately after the 2003 WC - England were officially number one and had a string of victories against supposedly superior opposition. Somebody else then added a section about England weren't any good any more and how Woody jumped ship to avoid being sacked.

Conclusion - one POV comment can lead to a whole raft of others. Perhaps it would be best to avoid remarks about which teams are the best on this the main page.GordyB 15:24, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Rugby in the 2000 Sydney Olympics?

I've talked to Cvene64 about this, but I want to make absolutely sure. Do any of you know wether or not a Rugby 7's competition (either tournament or just a single game) took place as part of the 2000 Sydney Summer Olympics? A user on the Olympic sports page keeps insisting that such an event took place although he has put up rather sketchy sources. Does anyone have any information on this? Perakhantu 09:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I can guarantee you 100% it did not. It was at the 2005 Melbourne Commonwealth Games, but rugby has not figured at the Olympics in either of its forms since 1924, when there was a fifteen-a-side competition. I am so sure of this I could put my house on it Travsuth 23:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Seconded. Definitely didn't happen. Rugby Sevens been at the Commonwealth for a good while now. I was at the Manchester games myself. -- GWO

No way it happened. I'm sure any NZer would remember if rugby was involved. - Shudda ^talk 09:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Nah that never happened..You might be mistaken but Rugby sevens is played in Commonwealth Games but not in the Olympics even though the IRB is trying to get Rugby Sevens into the 2012 London Olympic Games..ø~Cometstyles~ø^(talk)

I think what he may be referring to was that the IRB put on a exhibition match for IOC delegates in Sydney 2000 as a potential sport for the next Olympics, Rugby got shunted for something else. 58.178.186.182 06:42, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Forward Pass

Got a feeling we might be factually incorrect here. From the article "The players are also allowed to throw the ball from player to player, but unlike American football they are not allowed to throw it forwards; ie the ball must only go sideways or backwards." I'm almost certain that the law regarding this was changed from a forward pass being illegal, to anything but a pass going backwards being illegal. Can someone check this and provide a source? It's a pretty fundamental thing to get wrong. Alexj2002 22:07, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

You aren't allowed to propel the ball forward with any part of your body other than the foot. The ball must leave your hands in a sideways or backwards direction. Some people talk about a momentum rule but to my knowledge this is an invention of the media.GordyB 22:14, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Just wanted to clarify something about American football: You can only throw the ball forward if you are behind the line of scrimmage (the line where the ball is placed before each play). Otherwise, the forward pass rule in rugby is identical to American football-- you are only allowed to throw it sideways or behind, and this is called a "lateral." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.95.147.253 (talk • contribs)

From the IRB laws at http://www.irb.com/NR/rdonlyres/5FB8A13C-0ECD-49D6-8366-160AA8CA38B8/0/060704LGLAWSEN_00_Complete.pdf - "DEFINITION THROW FORWARD A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line."

No mention of momentum at all - sorry Michael Lynagh. The ball either moves toward the opponents' goal line or it doesn't. Sideways is fine.

GordyB, as far as I can find in the laws, there isn't any mention of not being "allowed to propel the ball forward with any part of your body other than the foot", or not being allowed to head the ball forward, for example. The laws define a kick as "made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot, except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee; a kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand, or along the ground."

Hippo43 12:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Re-reading the laws I find that you can head the ball (I knew that) but the rules don't seem to forbid you from heading forwards which surprises me. You are also allowed 'rebounds' with the ball hitting your chest or shoulder and going forwards (and blocked kicks too), I can't see anything that specifically forbids deliberately chesting the ball as footballers sometimes do but I wouldn't be surprised if it was ruled a knock-on.GordyB 12:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure you're right - most refs would give a knock-on without a second thought if you deliberately chested the ball forward, even though the the letter of the law seems to allow it.Hippo43 18:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

External links

What is up with all these links? Who selected the list of clubs? Its pretty weird, we need to sort out the list and maintain it. Cvene64 08:45, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Injury

"Player Injury" should be mentioned in this article. The articles on [American Football] all have references to casualties (or even fatalities). I also think a comparison is needed between occurances of injury within Rugby to other sports.

All Blacks Peer review

I've submitted All Blacks article for a peer-review, please go to WP:PR and leave comments if people suggest improvements. This is important if we want to get this article to FA status. - Shudda ^talk 01:56, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Quotes regarding particular teams/individuals need references

Just saw the addition of Munster and NZ being renowned at the maul. If you cant provide a reference then you should put it in. "Snorkel | Talk" 18:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the reference to Munster and NZ in the section on Maul as nobody was able to provide a reference. "Snorkel | Talk" 15:43, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Good call. Relative to the All Blacks present excellence at every phase of the game, I don't think their mauling is particularly impressive or important. Their rucking and mastery of the post-tackle -- now thats impressive. -- GWO

The Scrum

I think this is very poorly explained. No effort is made to explain the body positions of the people in the scrum-- it just says the people are "locked together," whatever that means. Can somebody elaborate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.95.147.253 (talk • contribs)

I've added a picture (worth 1000 words, or so I'm told) -- GWO

Ch-ch-ch-changes

An anonymous user and I made wholesale changes to this article. I hope its better. -- GWO

Peer review

I have requested this article be peer reviewed by Wikiproject Rugby union. Please add your comments here. Thanks. - Shudda ^talk 23:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)