A consensus has been reached on this talk page that Rumi has a Persian heritage. The consensus is based entirely on reliable sources that establish his birthplace and native language within a Persian cultural-historical context. Before reopening a debate on Rumi's ethnicity, please read WP:V, WP:Weight, and WP:RS, as well as Talk:Rumi/Rumi's heritage. See also modern, authoritative biographies of Rumi, such as that of Professor Franklin Lewis, and note the relative ubiquity of such descriptions as "Persian poet Rumi" and "Persian mystic Rumi" in Google Books and Google Scholar sources.
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Why has Kansas Bear removed the Persian ethnicity of Rumi from being Persian? He cites, MOS:Ethnicity, but it claims it shouldn't be apart of the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability.
Consensus has been reached on the talk page about this tiring topic already. Please reintroduce Persian.
MOS:Ethnicity does not apply here since Rumi's Persian identity is central to his notability. Merely highlighting his origins in 'Greater Iran' lacks clarity for an opening paragraph and he is described as Persian in any reputable academic source (many of which are already cited on this page). Onpoint12 (talk) 10:02, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
His ethnocultural identity is 'Persian' and it is indelibly associated with him and his contribution to Persian literature - as recognised by multiple credible sources used on this page. It is also an important descriptor for the sake of a) clarity (versus saying he is from Khwarezm in Greater Iran, which is opaque and arguably contradictory and b) consistency with other pages on Wikipedia where many poets have ethnocultural descriptors i.e. Greek, Roman preceding the word 'poet'. Any attempt to deny this descriptor works against educating the reader. Onpoint12 (talk) 23:56, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"consistency with other pages on Wikipedia where many poets have ethnocultural descriptors i.e. Greek, Roman preceding the word 'poet'."
Rumi is knwon for being a 'Persian poet' in the same way other poets in other languages are 'French poets' or 'English poets'. It refers to ethnocultural identity and contribution. Importantly, academic sources refer to him as the same. The fact that other pages manage to clarify such facts illustrates why they score better for clarity, an area where this page underperforms alarmingly. Onpoint12 (talk) 00:10, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Previous editors' comments suggest your rationales for these ongoing changes fail to resonate. I am not adding 'Persian' as an ethnic descriptor; please re read my rationale, check the sources used on this page, and understand that MOS:ETHNICITY does not apply here. As others have already highlighted in the past. Onpoint12 (talk) 00:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I await a response on why adding 'Persian' as a descriptor to 'poet' is an ethnic reference that has no place in the article. As mentioned many times, it reflects his 'ethnocultural' identity and contribution, an important aspect of the subject that helps educate the reader, and which is recognised by the sources used on this page (which also describe him as a 'Persian poet). Onpoint12 (talk) 00:59, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He is well known as being a 'Persian poet', which recognises his ethnocultural identity and contribution. I again highlight the sources used on this page. A simple Google search will also furnish you with the same evidence. Simply telling me he is known for his poetry does not preclude notability based on his ethnocultural identity, the evidence for which is overwhelming Onpoint12 (talk) 01:05, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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I would like to ask to "change Rumi to Molavi", as his original name is Molavi.
He is born in Balkh (currently part of Afghanistan - seperated in 1857 from Iran by Treaty of Paris).
His peoms are in Persian and the name of Rumi is not representative of neither his origin nor his name. The name Rumi is a huge misrepresenting for an international poem like Molavi. Farzaneh gholami (talk) 16:28, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not done: Rumi is his WP:COMMONNAME; regardless of any alleged 'misrepresentation'. The name you characterize as 'not representative' also reflects the geography (see Rûm) he arguably had the most direct impact on. Uness232 (talk) 17:59, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An interesting and perhaps less widely known fact about Rumi is his deep and transformative friendship with Shams of Tabriz. This meeting is often credited with changing Rumi's life and turning him towards the path of Sufi mysticism. Before meeting Shams, Rumi was a respected but relatively conventional Islamic scholar. The intensity of their relationship sparked an outpouring of poetic longing and spiritual depth in Rumi's work, which previously had not been as evident. Their friendship is a central theme in many of Rumi's poems, illustrating the transformative power of human connection and love. This relationship also led to the creation of many of Rumi's most beloved poems, collected in the "Divan-e Shams-e Tabrizi" (The Collected Poems of Shams of Tabriz).
The profound impact of Shams on Rumi's life and work underscores the importance of companionship, love, and the mentor-mentee relationship in the journey of spiritual and personal growth, a theme that resonates across cultures and eras. FatemeHashemi1992 (talk) 16:31, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This passage could go in the Teachings section as representing the concept of a commonality to divine teachings. I also encounter this passage translated to English as "The lamps are different, but the Light is the same; it comes from Beyond." I am not certain of the source of this translation, it might be Coleman Barks. Badgettrg (talk) 03:59, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Request to Reinstate Rumi's Persian Ethnocultural Identity
I want to bring attention to the fact that Rumi is widely recognized as a Persian poet and mystic in numerous academic sources. Removing his Persian identity from this page seems highly questionable and contradicts established scholarly consensus. Given the importance of this aspect of Rumi’s heritage, any removal of such references raises concerns about bias or misinformation. I request that the users who are preventing the accurate representation of Rumi’s Persian heritage be thoroughly investigated. Let's maintain the integrity of the content and be fair to the historical and cultural significance of such figures.
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Not done: Rumi is his WP:COMMONNAME; regardless of any alleged 'misrepresentation'. The name you characterize as 'not representative' also reflects the geography (see Rûm) he arguably had the most direct impact on. Uness232 (talk) 17:59, 24 February 2024 (UTC)