Talk:SS-Junker Schools

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the SS-Junker Schools article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Military history: European / German / World War II

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	European military history task force
	German military history task force
	World War II task force

Germany Low‑importance

	Germany portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Article content

Please feel free to increase this article's content; if you do so however please use the existing citation style.--Obenritter (talk) 21:45, 24 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 January 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. I had relisted but nom requested a n/c close because the discussion had gotten so muddled. I concur. (non-admin closure) В²C ☎ 01:51, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Junker Schools → SS-Junker School – Per WP:COMMONNAME and to add disambiguation to "SS", I think in this case it makes more sense to go with the German-language term, as Junker school (singular) redirects to Junker (Russia)#Junker schools. K.e.coffman (talk) 06:58, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Updated to "SS-Junker School". Please see Google books preview. I believe that it should be singular, as the article describes a type of institution. -- K.e.coffman (talk) 19:04, 13 January 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. В²C ☎ 00:48, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have no strong option as to the change. Another thought would be: "SS-Junker Schools" with a redirect from SS-Junkerschule. What do you guys think, K.e. and @Obenritter:. Cheers, Kierzek (talk) 16:20, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Kierzek:@K.e.coffman: Greetings folks--I think Kierzek's solution makes the most sense, as this really was an SS entity after all. --Obenritter (talk) 19:45, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:USEENGLISH. Rreagan007 (talk) 08:52, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Concur with changes recommended by Kierzek. --Obenritter (talk) 01:32, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The suggestion I was originally aiming for was "SS-Junkerschulen" (with a disambig), but "SS-Junker School" should be acceptable. --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:31, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@K.e.coffman: As the original creator of this page and its principle author, I say make it so brother. Shouldn't it be plural "SS-Junker Schools" since there were several? Nice catch on this BTW! --Obenritter (talk) 01:32, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Obenritter, Rreagan007, and Kierzek: for the updated proposal to SS-Junker School. K.e.coffman (talk) 19:04, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@K.e.coffman, Rreagan007, and Kierzek:

Oppose SS-Junker School but hereby Concur with SS-Junker Schools --Obenritter (talk) 19:14, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, SS-Junker School, as there was more than one such school; and given there was more than one, it should be plural, and will agree to that. Kierzek (talk) 20:39, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Obenritter, Rreagan007, and Kierzek: should this be SS-Junker schools (uncap for "schools") then? K.e.coffman (talk) 00:03, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I believe so, K.e. As you raise the point that the article is about more than a specific one. Kierzek (talk) 14:39, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose current proposal, but would support original proposal or SS-Junker schools (lower case). All English forms seem to me a little ambiguous as to whether we are talking about Junker schools of the SS or schools for SS-Junkers (not that it makes a big difference but the ambiguity makes the term hard to parse). As an aside, we need a dab page for this usage and the Russian usage and where all ambiguous forms should redirect. Srnec (talk) 14:55, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@K.e.coffman, Rreagan007, Kierzek, and Srnec:

Support the change to: SS-Junker schools

Oppose. Unnecessary disambiguation. But would support a move to Junker school per wp:plural. A hatnote to the section at Junker (Russia) will do for now; The whole constellation of articles needs work, with some of the content of that latter article more properly at Junker (disambiguation). Andrewa (talk) 08:49, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Since "Junker school" is ambiguous... how is disambiguation unnecessary? SS-Junker is a common name for this rank, so SS-Junker school disambiguates it fine. Google "Junker school" and you will mostly get Tsarist results. Srnec (talk) 13:52, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I hear what you're saying... and in the fullness of time this disambiguation will probably prove necessary, as you say. But for now, there is no article on these other Junker schools. Junker (Russia) is a mess, not really a BCA but certainly not a DAB, and should perhaps be refocussed and renamed to be an article on the Tsarist schools, moving other material to Junker and Junker (disambiguation) which its current focus duplicates. Then we can see about this one. Andrewa (talk) 17:36, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Born2cycle: Would you mind closing this as "no consensus". I think it got too muddled. K.e.coffman (talk) 01:36, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay. I had considered that, but then decided to give you guys a chance to unmuddle it with a relist. But if you're requesting a no consensus close, that make sense to me. Will do. Thanks. --В²C ☎ 01:50, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Should be changed to SS-Junker Schools

I see the "Requested move 11 January 2019", above, has been closed as no consensus. However, I submit that the article title really should be changed (moved) to reflect what they were, SS-Junker Schools (SS officer training and Nazi indoctrination schools). With a redirect from SS-Junkerschule. What say you guys. Kierzek (talk) 14:26, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

* Support—As the original author/creator of this article, I regret not titling this as SS-Junker Schools. However, we can rectify this.--Obenritter (talk) 21:22, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Srnec (talk) 01:16, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I see three supports for this move plus the nominator of that RM above against only one clear oppose (the other oppose being for an earlier and different proposal). So, I have boldly moved the article. I'd prefer a lower case S, but the clear consensus is only for adding SS- on the front. Srnec (talk) 01:40, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
List at WP:RM, please. Given the recent no consensus close, this definitely qualifies as a potentially controversial move and the proposal must be listed at RM for any decision reached to be considered as legitimate. Listing directions are provided there. —В²C ☎ 05:44, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ranks table

Preserving here by providing this link; my rationale was: "unneeded ranks table -- these are general SS ranks, not specific to the SS-Junkerschulen". --K.e.coffman (talk) 17:45, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@K.e.coffman: That's a good solution to another useless Nazi ranks glorification table. Thanks --Obenritter (talk) 20:33, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Standartenjunker" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Standartenjunker and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 8#Standartenjunker until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hildeoc (talk) 18:11, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Junker (SS rank)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Junker (SS rank) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 8#Junker (SS rank) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hildeoc (talk) 18:58, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]