Talk:Sindhi Hindus/Archive 1

Archive 1

Unconstructive removal of content

Shimlaites, this edit where you removed the entire section of Notable Sindhi Hindus doesn't appear constructive to me. Presumably each article should have content that supports both Sindhi ancestry along with a tie to the Hindu religion. What makes more sense than removing the entire section is to check each one to see if the content is sourced. I don't think you did that, since I spot-checked a few and found that some had references. Do you dispute that Raja Dahir was a notable Sindhi and Hindu? Did you perform due diligence on any of them? I see that Tamannaah is sourced as a Sindhi, but not as a Hindu. Did you look into that, or just delete? I don't see a religion indicated at Hemu Kalani, so that might be a problem. I also don't see a religion indicated at Ranveer Singh, though his Sindhi ancestry is supported. What checks did you perform? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 05:19, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

For a check, the sources have to be provided on the page and in the relevant section itself. Were there any sources cited here? Also this page is not about Sindhi people but Sindhi HINDUS in particular. Just coz someone have a Sindhi lineage, doesn't mean he/she can be added here. A Sindhi person can be atheist, Jain, Christian, Sikh or Muslim like others. No source has been cited for the list, it is a POV from the other user. Shimlaites (talk) 05:30, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Sources don't necessarily have to be provided on the page in the relevant section if the content can be verified in the main article. That is typical for these sorts of notability lists. Notice how List of former child actors from the United Kingdom doesn't have any references? It has presumably been established in each of those articles that the people were actors when they were children, and that they are from the United Kingdom. If you blanked the entire page for having no references it would be considered disruptive. Likewise, if you want to go through the Notable Sindhi Hindus list and double-check whether or not each one contains sufficient referencing to support both Sindhi and Hindu, and if not, remove them accordingly, that's perfectly reasonable, and your edit summary would likely be reflective of your research just like mine was,[1][2] but I know you didn't do that at the time you removed the list, and that's why it was problematic. And it's also a perfectly valid option for you to research the matter yourself and see whether or not you can find a source that confirms both a subject's ethnic heritage as well as their religion. Deletion isn't the only choice. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 08:26, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes they have to be on the page, where will the readers who need to verify the information they are reading on Wikipedia, verify it? The other user just added the name of the people as per his POV. No source cited for any of the names, the onus of providing sources is on the other user, who added these names in the first place. How can citing one case of List of former child actors from the United Kingdom justify the error here. This way, one will add his/her POV on a page and all other users will have to clean the POV mess created by the former? The onus of providing sources on the page is on him/her. If there are no sources, then these names are wrong, they are merely one user's POV.

So you are telling me, that I can add random names on this list, like totally random, and if the other users find them wrong, then its their duty to cite sources for otherwise? Shimlaites (talk) 08:39, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

If someone adds a list and you spot check several samples and it's clear that the person who added them did so without properly checking that both qualities (Sindhi and Hindu) were established in the respective articles, then I'd say it's reasonable to remove the content and put the burden back on the submitter to bring references that establish the criteria are met. But to remove the entire list without checking, is not helpful, and that's what I believe you did. I suppose I'd also probably be a bit sensitive about controversial content like ethnicity and religion being included, so I can see where you're coming from. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 09:11, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

There are no sources cited on the respective pages of the following people, which say they are Hindus,

• Hari Harilela, Hong Kong Indian businessman
• Rajkumar Hirani, Indian film director
• Sadhana, former Indian actress and cousin of Babita
• Pankaj Advani, Indian snooker player
• Hansika Motwani, Indian actress
• Vishal Dadlani, Indian singer
• Kishore Mahbubani, Singaporean diplomat
• Raam Punjabi, Indonesian film producer
• Manoj Punjabi, Indonesian film producer, nephew of Raam Punjabi

Please cite a source for their religion, thanks. Shimlaites (talk) 08:48, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Shimlaites (talk · contribs), I am afraid that you are being excessively pedantic, almost bordering on disruptive, with your mass-deletion of content that has already been established on many Sindhi-related articles. I find it unreal that you are disputing the fact that Sindhis use both the Perso-Arabic and Devanagari scripts. This is already an established fact, but if you dispute it, please feel free to go over to this page and blank content there as well. This section is replete with all the sources and references that you may require. While editors are supposed to assume good faith, I can't help but feel that your edits are agenda-driven.

Here's the thing, Wikipedia is not our personal blog, where we share our theories and POVs. Do you even realize, what the topic of article is? It is about a sub-group of an ethnic group, i.e. the Sindhi people, who practice Hinduism aka the 'Sindhi Hindus'. You can not add random people's name on the page just because you feel they sound "Hindus". 'Sindhi Hindu' is a religious classification, if a person is not practicing the religion or is practicing another religion, you can not add his/her name on the page. Simple. Also, adding another religion(Sikh) in the infobox, when the topic of the page is a different religion? I am sure some Sindhi Hindus also go to Church and visit Dargahs, so what are they? Sindhi Hindu-Muslims or Sindhi Hindu-Christians? Stop adding trivial stuff, which is not related to the subject of the page. Shimlaites (talk) 13:00, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

As Cyphoidbomb (talk · contribs) also said, do you dispute that Raja Dahir was a notable Hindu from Sindh? It is almost impossible to provide sources to prove the 'Hindu-ness' of prominent personalities. It isn't as if their birth certificates have been released on the internet in PDF format. Your point that they might be atheist is completely irrelevant to this discussion. My reason for their inclusion was that Sindhi Hindu is an ethnic identifier that distinguishes non-Muslim Sindhis from Muslim Sindhis - a Sindhi Hindu that has decided to be atheist still belongs to the 'Sindhi Hindu' community or fraternity. A Sindhi Hindu that practices Sikh traditions is still a part of the 'Sindhi Hindu' community, and yes, I provided two sources for this in the lead, sources that clearly said something along the lines of: "Sanatan Dharma Sindhis practice Sikh traditions" - but you blanked this content again despite me verifying it with reputable academic sources. As I said, it feels agenda-driven and disruptive. The sources under "naming conventions" also state that Sindhis with the surname suffix '-ani' are generally identified as a part of the 'Sindhi Hindu' fraternity. If Cyphoidbomb (talk · contribs) agrees with what I have to say, I shall reinstate some of the text you have reverted (three times in a row now). Tiger7253 (talk) 12:43, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

• Note: This is not a comment on who should or should not be included but a blp note. You shouldn't include any living person or anyone covered under WP:BLP (generally anyone born since around 1900) in this article if you can't reliably source their religion. --regentspark (comment) 14:06, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

• Comment about references For list of people about a religion/ethnicity, it is not necessary for a reference to be present in this article itself. However, it definitely needs to be present in the main article about the subject. In the case of BLPs, if no reference can be found, it should be removed from the list. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 05:02, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Sindhi Hindus

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Sindhi Hindus's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "PHC":

• From Hinduism in Pakistan: "Hindu Population (PK) – Pakistan Hindu Council". Archived from the original on 15 March 2018. Retrieved 2019-03-18.
• From Hinduism in Balochistan: "Hindu Population (PK) – Pakistan Hindu Council". Archived from the original on 15 March 2018. Retrieved 24 May 2021.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 08:27, 4 June 2021 (UTC)