Talk:South African National Defence Force

Review

I found the encyclopedia very useful and, surprisingly, factually very correct. There is also an absence of emotional opinions in the presentation of the [historical] facts -- something that you don't always find in South Africa these days.

-- Abel J Esterhuyse, lecturer at the military strategy department of the faculty of military science at the University of Stellenbosch (South African Military Academy), Mail & Guardian online: Can you trust Wikipedia?, Elvira van Noort, Johannesburg, South Africa, 07 November 2005 09:13.

Plagarism

This entry seems to have been plagiarized at AllExperts. I'm not sure which section came first though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rjnienaber (talk • contribs)

AllExperts is a mirror of Wikipedia. As the original creator of this page, I can assure you it wasn't plagiarised from anywhere. — Impi 21:27, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Commando system

What about the commando system, hasn´t that been at least until recently and maybe some part still part of the South African National Defence Forces, as a reserve or something like that? Do they not have any kind or reserve system? Vammlaus (talk) 14:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Most powerful army in Africa

I heard in this exact or that SA is among the most powerful militaries in Africa if on their full potential. 1. Israel(most advance and trained) 2. Egypt (improvement in advancement) 3. South Africa(trained qiute well in it's own right(look up their recent wars)and if want to go back and create WMD's) 4. Ethiopia(large and tough army in it's own right) 5. Nigeria(possibly largest in Africa)

This is the list I found and heard, is this true false or in between.76.94.173.73 (talk) 20:55, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Its rubbish, just for starters Israel is not in Africa. Roger (talk) 12:42, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

COMBAT READY

the SANDF is about 5% combat ready as most of its members have AIDS or TB. four tildes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.8.251.250 (talk) 18:52, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

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Helicopter from Agusta-westland aren't completely English. Sorry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.0.59.22 (talk) 11:52, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Adding sections

I found this page very hard to read so took the liberty of adding some sections. At the same time I removed some duplication on the lead in It still needs a re-org and update but IMHO looks better — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gbawden (talk • contribs) 11:49, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Foreign deployments

The following is a section I removed from the article. It is not well written, it arbitrarily starts at 2011 when the SANDF's first foreign deployment after integration was in fact Operation Boleas in Lesotho during 1998. There are no start dates for the deployments that are listed and numbers of troops are stated as if they have never changed during the course of each operation. This section needs to be properly developed before it is returned to the article. Each operation should have a subheading. In many cases articles about the SADC, AU or UN operations already exist which need to be added as "main article" links. BTW the mission of the FIB component of MONUSCO is not to only counter M23, it is in actually mandated end the activities of all the non-state armed groups in the whole of the DRC, M23 is only the first such group to receive attention. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:50, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Sections for Lesotho, Burundi, South Sudan and others need to be created.

Foreign deployments

Since the first foreign action by the newly reconsituted SANDF in Lesotho in 1998 they have been heavily committed to a variety of peacekeeping and peace enforcement operations in various Sub-Saharan countries under the mandates of SADC, the AU and the UN.

Operation Boleas

Main article: Southern African Development Community intervention in Lesotho

Operation Boleas was the newly reconstituted SANDF's first foreign operation. It was an intervantion by the Southern African Development Community to prevent a military coup in Lesotho during 1998.

South Sudan independence

During the transition period of the secession and independence of South Sudan a small contingent of SANDF personnel were deployed to that country. The deployment consisted of a SAAF air-traffic control unit equipped with a mobile radar system who were tasked with airspace control and also had to handle many VIP flights of foreing dignitaries attending the independence celebrations. A South African Special Forces contingent provided security for South Sudan officials as well as event and venue security for independence celebrations.

UNAMID

Main article: African Union – United Nations Hybrid Operation in Darfur

South African peacekeepers are deployed in Sudan in the Darfur as part of the African Union – United Nations Hybrid Operation in Darfur(UNAMID). They conduct patrol and escort missions to protect the local population from armed groups and renewed rebel activity in the region. They also provide humanitarian aid and help to facilitate the political peace process in Darfur

MONUSCO

Main article: United Nations Organization Stabilization Mission in the Democratic Republic of the Congo

South African peacekeepers are deployed in the North Kivu province of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, protecting civilians against armed groups that harass the local population. Some of these peacekeepers form part of United Nations Force Intervention Brigade, created in March 2013, to give United Nations peacekeepers in the country an offensive mandate to neutralize armed forces that threaten State authority and civilian security.

Members of 22 Squadron SAAF,15 Squadron SAAF, 17 Squadron SAAF and the 87 Helicopter Flying School SAAF have also been deployed in the Democratic Republic of the Congo flying Oryx helicopters to transport troops. 28 Squadron SAAF provide airlift capability to troops the region, flying C-130BZ/F Hercules transport aircraft. 35 Squadron SAAF have also provided logistical support with a pair of C-47TP "Turbo Dakota" in the form of providing fuel and spares for the Oryx helicopters operating in the region.44 Squadron SAAF's C-212's have also been used as air transport in the region.

I have just returned from a trip to eastern DRC (as a tourist). While there we passed the South African Engineer Squadron base outside Goma. This base is adjacent to a larger base that apparently houses an Indian battalion serving with MONUSCO. We also saw South African Engineer vehicles on the road - possibly returning from roadworks? The South African Engineer deployment to the DRC seems largely overlooked in reporting.Simbi Steele (talk) 05:49, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Central African Republic

Main article: Central African Republic conflict (2012–13)

<Paragraph about how the SANDF got there in the first place>

In 2012 a controversial decision was made by South African President Jacob Zuma to deploy 200 additional SANDF troops to reinforce an existing force of 100-200 deployed SANDF personnel to the Central African Republic to help the local government to disarm and reintegrate Séléka rebels and provide training to the Central African Armed Forces, despite warning of growing unrest in the region due to broken political agreements between CAR President François Bozizé and the Séléka rebel groups.

On 25 March 2013 Séléka rebel groups advanced on the capital city of Bangui engaged government, Chadian and South African soldiers in the city. Members of 1 Parachute Battalion were ambushed outside the city while they were on patrol Séléka rebels advancing on the capital. A series of running battles erupted between the 200-man strong South African force and an estimated 3000 well-armed rebels in the area. The South Africans were able to maintain overall command and cohesion and fell back from two separate engagement areas to their base where an eventual ceasefire was declared between the SANDF commander and the Séléka rebel leader. The battle claimed the lives of 13 South African soldiers and 27 were wounded, one of whom died later from his injuries. The battle also claimed the lives of as many as 500 rebels, based on several South African officers and NGO's operating in the country.

Sources

I have found a very good source that covers the history of the SANDF from 1994 to 2009 quite well - an academic paper from the UOFS History department - http://humanities.ufs.ac.za/dl/userfiles/Documents/00001/1093_eng.pdf The SANDF's magazine SA Soldier (from 2006 to the present) is freely avaialble at http://www.dod.mil.za/sasoldier/sasoldier_mag.htm We should also search general press archives (media24, IOL, etc) where available. Specialist press such as africandefence.net and DefenceWeb.co.za also contain useful material. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:25, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Good find, thanks. Will try contribute a bit to this section over the next few days as well. Darren (talk) 21:03, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

List

Darren sent me this list off-wiki:

• Op Name - Location - Description - Years active

• Operation Litchi - Mozambique - Post-flood assistance - 2000/2001
• Operation Mistral - DRC - SANDF contribution to MONUC/MONUSCO - 2003-current
• Operation Espresso - Eritrea and Ethiopia - Observers and staff officers for UNMEE and ONMEE monitoring - 2000-2008
• Operation Cordite - Sudan - Support of first AMIS then UNAMIS missions - 2004-current
• Operation Fibre - Burundi - SANDF participation in AU Special Protection Force, AMIB and ONUB - 2000-2006
• Operation Curriculum - Burundi - SANDF contribution to AU Special Task Force - 2006-2009
• Operation Solitaire - DRC - Election support - 2006
• Operation Mariner - Madagascar - Election support - 2006
• Operation Indawo - Lesotho - Election support - 2007
• Operation Litchi II - Mozambique - Post-flood assistance - 2007-?
• Operation Bapisa - Mozambique - Support after ammunition depot explosion - 2007-?
• Operation Teutonic - DRC - SANDF assistance & training for DRC transitional government - 2005-2010? (note there was Teutonic I - Teutonic III)
• Operation Tanker Two - International waters - Shadowing of Greenpeace vessel M/V Esperanza to prevent interception of M/V Pacific Teal - 2002
• Operation Triton I - Comoros - Peace and stability support to OMIC - 2001-2002
• Operation Triton II - Comoros - Peace and stability support to OMIC - 2002
• Operation Triton III - Comoros - Peace and stability support to OMIC? - 2004
• Operation Triton IV - Comoros - Peace and stability support to AMISEC - 2006
• Operation Triton V - Comoros - Peace and stability support to AMISEC - 2007
• Operation Amphibian - DRC - MILOBS support to UN-South African Third Party Verification Mechanism (TPVM) to verify exit of Rwandan troops - 2002-2004
• Operation Sunray - DRC - Support to EU-led Operation Artemis in Bunia - 2003 (bet most people didn't know about this one)
• Operation Montego - Liberia - Three staff officers deployed to support UNMIL - 2003-2005
• Operation Pristine - Côte d'Ivoire - DDR of Forces Nouvelle rebels - 2005-2006
• Operation Induli - Nepal - Single observer for UNMIN - 2007-2009 (The only deplyment outside of Africa so far)
• Operation Bongane - Uganda/Southern Sudan - Two MILOBS to monitor ceasefire between Ugandan mil and LRA - 2007-2009
• Operation Vimbezela - CAR - Training support and facilities refurbishment - 2007-2013
• Operation Morero - CAR - SASF VIP protection of President Bozizé - 2007?-2008

Please feel free to add to the list. It needs sources. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:44, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

References

Defence Reviews 1998 and 2012

This article should have at least a brief mention of the two Defence Reviews. The 1998 one, written by corporate management consultants, has according to many credible sources, been rather disasterous in imposing unworkable structures and procedures on particularly the Army. It also failed rather badly to provide for the high op-tempo of multiple ongoing external operations. The 2012 Review, again according to many credible sources, presents a far better structure and operartional systems design but it has been very delayed and has still not been presented to the Parliamentary Committee on Defence for adoption. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:38, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

The 2012/13 Defence Review has been accepted by Cabinet and referred to Parliament. See this article at DefenceWeb.co.za -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:40, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

I have started a draft - Draft:South African Defence Review 2012, please feel free to participate. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:33, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Operation Fiela

I just created a redirect to the "Domestic operations" section of this page from Operation Fiela which was an orphaned stub. Jdcooper (talk)

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Foundation date?

What should the infobox list as the foundation date? The date of the SANDF's creation, SADF, or UDF? At the moment it is empty. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 00:57, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

I know I am three years late to this, but I do NOT think it is correct to have 1912 as the foundation date. The SANDF was an amalgamation of the various statutory and non-statutory forces, so it was created anew in 1994. Using the logic that the SADF was one if its antecedents, it would be possible to make the argument for say as an example the formation of MK as being the foundation date... BoonDock (talk) 14:22, 7 June 2023 (UTC)