Talk:Terry Wahls
![]() | This page was proposed for deletion by an editor in the past. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Reliable medical sources
[edit]She does have a lot of WP:MEDRS research https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=wahls+t --Nbauman (talk) 22:26, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
The Wahls Protocol Diet
[edit]It is written that, "Wahls' promotion of her diet and lifestyle regimen as a cure for MS". As far as I know, that is a false portrayal. I've only ever seen her claim the reversal of symptoms, not a cure. In speaking of her own MS, she clearly states that she still has the condition even as it is in remission. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benjamindavidsteele (talk • contribs) 12:36, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- She does appear to claim it is curative. E.g., Ref 5, which describes her treatment as a cure. She is being interviewed so it is not likely she disagrees.Michaplot (talk) 19:52, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
adjective 'curative' not supported by citation to web md (currently reference 6)
[edit]The section The Wahls Protocol Diet starts with the sentence
The curative diet promoted by Wahls to treat MS is a modified paleo diet, relying primarily on grass-fed meat, fish, leafy vegetables, roots, nuts, and fruit and restricting dairy products, eggs, grains, legumes, nightshade (solanaceous) vegetables, starches and sugar.[6]
Reference 6 is to a Web MD article.
That Web MD article does not say that Wahls claimed that it was a 'cure'. In fact, it reports that she 'says it helped with her symptoms'. This is of course a much weaker statement. So i think the word 'curative' should be dropped, or given a citation from a 'reliable source' (in the wikipedia's view) that actually explicitly says she claims it is a 'cure'.
(I am aware of an earlier discussion of what i think is exactly this point, but i'm not sure what the old reference 5 is. However, an interview in which she does not disagree with something the interviewer says would not suffice to justify the word 'curative'. That would be a deduction from a primary source, if i understand the wikipedia methodology correctly. What is needed is a secondary source---something besides an interview---in which that secondary source itself draws the conclusion that she is promoting it as a cure. Such a thing might exist, but she seems to be careful in what she says even in popular talks, so i think it should be uncovered and cited to before using the word 'curative').
Son of eugene (talk) 05:32, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
regarding "no good evidence" for diet treatment of MS
[edit]Regarding the "no evidence" for diet interventions in MS, that's actually not an accurate portrayal of current research. The American Academy of Neurology (the top journal in neurology) has a 2018 study linking diet intervention with positive outcomes, at least in patient quality of life. Here is the study: https://n.neurology.org/content/90/1/e1.full Wahls protocol is not supported by research, but other diet interventions (i.e. healthy eating generally) are. Can we reword this to clarify?
I am fairly new to editing, just want to be sure the correct MS information is here, as I'm currently reviewing dozens of clinical studies on MS intervention, and diet is an important intervention. I am happy to bring in other studies also if that would help.
trumpeter832 (talk) 09:54, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
- Any source for WP:Biomedical information would need to be a WP:MEDRS; primary sources such as clinical studies are generally unreliable. The "no good evidence" is cited to a Cochrane systematic review, which is pretty much the gold standard. Alexbrn (talk) 15:38, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
2023 review
[edit]This review was added on the article by Terry Wahls herself [1]. The problem with this review of trials was the low-quality of evidence. "Several dietary interventions may reduce MS-related fatigue and improve physical and mental QoL; however, because of the limitations of this NMA, which are driven by the low quality of the included trials, these findings must be confirmed in high-quality, randomized, controlled trials." This is low-quality. It isn't worth citing this until we have stronger clinical evidence. Psychologist Guy (talk) 12:55, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
Suggestions to improve article (June 2024)
[edit]![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
I have a personal connection to Dr. Terry Wahls, and have a few suggestions to improve the accuracy of her page, and to bring it more aligned with other biographical Wikipedia articles. I have reviewed and will follow the Wikipedia Conflict of Interest policy.
1. In the Wahls Protocol Diet section, please add a new second paragraph:
Wahls has claimed that the diet - in addition to exercise, reduced stress, supplements and neuromuscular electrical stimulation[1]- reduced the symptoms of her own multiple sclerosis.[2] A 2022 meta analysis in BMC Neurology that reviewed the efficacy of Wahls’ and similar diets found that the diets reduced fatigue in patients with multiple sclerosis.[3] A 2022 meta analysis in BMC Neurology that analyzed the data of eight studies,[3] including a modified paleolithic dietary intervention studied by Amanda Irish, Wahls and three other researchers,[4] found that dietary intervention is associated with reduced fatigue in patients with multiple sclerosis.[3] In 2022, Wahls received $2.5 million for further studies into the efficacy of diet on relapsing MS patients from the Carter Chapman Shreve Family Foundation.[5] A 2023 meta-analysis in Neurology of the efficacy of eight different dietary interventions,[6] which included Wahls’,
[7] found that the Paleolithic diet was “consistently shown to be favorable” in reducing MS-related fatigue and improving mental and physical QoL in participants.[6]
Why: Added two meta-analyses, independent of Wahls, that specifically studied Wahls’ research and supported its claims. A meta-analysis of medical research findings is the one of the criteria for including a medical claim on Wikipedia under WP:MEDRS.
References
- ^ Landau, Meryl Davids (19 December 2012). "An MS-Stricken Doctor Changes Her Diet ... and Reverses Her 'Irreversible' Decline". The Huffington Post. Retrieved 21 March 2013.
- ^ Hines, Holly (10 Mar 2014). "Doctor turns to special diet after health problems". Press-Citizen. Associated Press. Retrieved 31 May 2024.
- ^ a b c Guerrero, Aznar, M.D.; Villanueva, Guerrero, M.D.; Cordero, Ramos, J (20 October 2022). "Efficacy of diet on fatigue, quality of life and disability status in multiple sclerosis patients: rapid review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials". BMC Neurol. 22. doi:10.1186/s12883-022-02913-w. PMID 9583472. Retrieved 30 May 2024.
{{cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link) - ^ Irish, Amanda; Wahls, Terry; Snetselaar, Linda; Erickson, Constance; Garfield Darling, Warren (18 January 2017). "Randomized control trial evaluation of a modified Paleolithic dietary intervention in the treatment of relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis: a pilot study". Degenerative Neurological and Neuromuscular Disease.
- ^ Miller, Vanessa (7 March 2022). "University of Iowa's Terry Wahls gets $2.5 million for multiple sclerosis dietary study". The Gazette. Retrieved 22 May 2024.
- ^ a b Snetselaar, Linda G.; Cheek, Joshua J.; Shugar Fox, Sara; Healy, Heather S.; Schweizer, Marin L.; Bao, Wei; Kamholz, John; Titcomb, Tyler J. (18 October 2022). "Efficacy of Diet on Fatigue and Quality of Life in Multiple Sclerosis". Neurology.
- ^ Lee, Jennifer; Titcomb, Tyler; Bisht, Babita; Rubenstein, Linda; Lousion, Rebecca; Wahls, Terry (January 2021). "A Modified MCT-Based Ketogenic Diet Increases Plasma β-Hydroxybutyrate but Has Less Effect on Fatigue and Quality of Life in People with Multiple Sclerosis Compared to a Modified Paleolithic Diet: A Waitlist-Controlled, Randomized Pilot Study". Journal of the American College of Nutrition. doi:10.1080/07315724.2020.1734988. Retrieved 8 July 2024.
Why: A meta-analysis of medical research findings is the highest standard of proof for including a medical claim on Wikipedia under WP:MEDRS. “The best evidence for efficacy of treatments and other health interventions comes mainly from meta-analyses of randomized controlled trials (RCTs).” I suggest adding two meta-analyses, each of which includes Wahls’ research. In the first, the study is referred to as “Irish” in the meta-analysis because Wahls is one of five researchers with Amanda Irish. See citation 80 in the paper if you wish to confirm Wahls is a co-author. The inclusion of the Irish study is confirmed in Tables 2, 5 & 6 and through the article. In the second meta-analysis reviewed If you read eTable 5 and eTable 6, citation 46, and eReferences 3,5, and 11 for the Neurology meta-analysis, you’ll see that Wahls is one of the authors of three studies included in that meta-analysis.
Why: Added a meta analysis, independent of Wahls, that specifically studied Wahls’ research and supported claims. A meta-analysis of medical research findings is the one of the criteria for including a medical claim on Wikipedia under WP:MEDRS.
I also added new information from 2022 about the continued funding of Wahls’ research.
2. Please rename the Wahls Protocol Diet section to: The Wahls Diet
Why: The Wahls Protocol is the name of Wahls book, but not the diet itself. In scientific peer-reviewed articles[1] and meta analysis,[2] the diet is referred to as the “Wahls Diet.”
3. In the new The Wahls Diet section, please replace the first sentence:
The diet promoted by Wahls to treat MS is a modified paleo diet, relying primarily on grass-fed meat, fish, leafy vegetables, roots, nuts, and fruit and restricting dairy products, eggs, grains, legumes, nightshade (solanaceous) vegetables, starches and sugar. Wahls has claimed that the diet alleviated the symptoms of her own multiple sclerosis.[3]
With the following two sentences:
After being diagnosed with MS in 2000, Wahls created the Wahls diet.[4] The diet is a modified paleo diet that excludes gluten, sugars and dairy.[2]
Why: First, the paragraph says the diet was “promoted” by Wahls, but the source actually says Wahls created the diet after being diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 2000. I slightly rewrote for clarity and accuracy, and added missing citations for both the first and second sentences. I have also added a meta-analysis citation supporting the diet, as per WP: MEDRS.
4. In the Wahls diet section, please remove the last sentence of the second paragraph:
A 2020 Cochrane review found no research supporting efficacy or effectiveness of diet or vitamin supplementation for treatment of MS.[5]
Why: This source does not evaluate the Wahls diet - it looked at other studies, therefore it doesn’t belong in this article about Wahls. WP: Coatracking. This sentence does not attempt to tie the Cochrane review article to Wahls, so is off-topic on its face, but to be sure there’s nothing relevant in it about Wahls, I reviewed it. Wahls’ research is only mentioned as an ongoing study whose results have not been published yet. As an aside, this sentence on WIkipedia is a misrepresentation of the Cochrane review, which primarily finds “evidence is uncertain”. This source is also out of date since Wahls research (and similar research) has since been published and later confirmed in a meta-analysis. (See Request #2)
5. In the Wahls diet section, please remove the last paragraph:
Clinical neurologist Steven Novella has commented that Wahls "paint[s] a picture of reality that is at drastic odds with the evidence" and elevates "nutrition to a magical stature that is not based on a lick of published evidence".[6]
Why: This information is pulled from a personal blog, which is not considered a reliable source according to Wikipedia’s reliable source policy WP:Reliable sources. It’s also very out of date – it’s a blog post from 2014, and Wahls has since published multiple peer-reviewed studies, and some of her findings confirmed in meta-analysis. (See Request 2). This sentence is written as though it’s an evergreen criticism of her current work, when in fact, it references a period from before her published research.
6. To Select Publications, below the current entries, please add the following:
Impact of the Swank and Wahls elimination dietary interventions on fatigue and quality of life in relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis: The WAVES randomized parallel-arm clinical trial[7]
Dietary approaches to treat MS-related fatigue: comparing the modified Paleolithic (Wahls Elimination) and low saturated fat (Swank) diets on perceived fatigue in persons with relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis: study protocol for a randomized controlled trial [8]
Why: This includes the peer-reviewed research referenced in the meta-analysis. It’s appropriate to use Select Publications for scientific research. Lola1950 (talk) 19:22, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- The trials you are citing fail WP:MEDRS. There is no good clinical evidence on diet and MS. It is still early days on this type of research. We are not going to cite one new trial. The meta-analysis you cited hardly mentions the Wahls diet. This is what it says "Wahls recommends using the modified Paleolithic diet for fatigued patients with RRMS. The Waves clinical trial, get improvements in EDSS and MFIS. Swank and Wahls diets contain a lower proportion of some nutrients compared to those needed in the usual diet, especially magnesium supplements and vitamins A, C, D and E. Deficiency of these micronutrients should be controlled". [2]
- There is no reason to mention the WAVES trial. If there were 10 or 20 trials with consistent data from a systematic review then this is worth including but citing one trial is not going to happen on Wikipedia, we do not cite primary sources. This is not the way evidence-based medicine works, citing one trial. We need to look at the totality of the evidence, not just one new study. In 10 years we will have more data. Psychologist Guy (talk) 20:24, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- MEDRS states: “The best evidence for efficacy of treatments and other health interventions comes mainly from meta-analyses of randomized controlled trials (RCTs).[9] Systematic reviews of literature that include non-randomized studies are less reliable.”[10]
The user above did not read the meta-analysis carefully enough to see that Wahls’ research was included in the main data of the meta-analysis. They have cited a description of her research in the paper but that’s secondary to the selection of her research for inclusion in the data of the entire meta-analysis. That combined data was the basis for the conclusions on the meta-analysis. I think the user did not see that the “Irish” study was co-authored by Wahls.
Following this user’s comment, I 1) clarified that the study is called “Irish” in the meta-analysis, with Wahls being one of five researchers with Amanda Irish the first listed; and 2) added a second meta-analysis to the passage that also includes a study co-authored by Wahls.
Details about exactly where to confirm Wahls’ participation can be found by reading the revised explanations above,
The first meta-analysis uses the data from eight studies. Table 2 shows the specific studies selected. (You must click to expand the tables unless you download the PDF). The “Irish” study is referred to in many places on this meta-analysis. In the second meta-analysis, which I added after the comment above, table e1 shows the specific studies selected and table e2 shows the original description of the study diets investigated by the research team. eReferences 3,5, and 11 show that Wahls is a co-author of the three studies included that investigated the Paleolithic diet. As this is not the page about MS, but a bio, describing the conclusions of the meta-analyses and the role of Wahls’ research within these, is the only way to meet the high burden of MedRS and also describe her particular research. If one of the authors of the meta-analysis were the researcher who wrote an underlying study, it would be excluded under MEDRS as primary. So using both a meta-analysis or systematic review plus a description of the BLP research included in the larger study is the only way under policy that an individual’s own medical research can be included on their Wikipedia page .Lola1950 (talk) 18:42, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- Come back to us when you have 5 or 6 meta-analyse and systematic reviews with significant results. As stated we are not going to link to one weak meta-analysis that hardly mentions the Wahls diet. Psychologist Guy (talk) 21:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
Not done I am closing this edit request (while having no opinion myself) since consensus of other editors seem to be that sources given fail WP:MEDRS. Rusalkii (talk) 00:39, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
- ^ Titcomb, Tyler J.; Brooks, Lisa; Smith, Karen L. (5 October 2021). "Change in Micronutrient Intake among People with Relapsing-Remitting Multiple Sclerosis Adapting the Swank and Wahls Diets: An Analysis of Weighed Food Records". Nutrients. 13. doi:10.3390/nu13103507. Retrieved 31 May 2024.
{{cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link) - ^ a b Guerrero, Aznar, M.D.; Villanueva, Guerrero, M.D.; Cordero, Ramos, J (20 October 2022). "Efficacy of diet on fatigue, quality of life and disability status in multiple sclerosis patients: rapid review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials". BMC Neurol. 22. doi:10.1186/s12883-022-02913-w. PMID 9583472. Retrieved 30 May 2024.
{{cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link) - ^ "What Is the Wahls Protocol Diet and Does It Work for MS?". WebMD. WebMD, LLC. Retrieved 19 January 2019.
- ^ Landau, Meryl Davids (19 December 2012). "An MS-Stricken Doctor Changes Her Diet ... and Reverses Her 'Irreversible' Decline". The Huffington Post. Retrieved 21 March 2013.
- ^ Parks, Natalie E.; Jackson-Tarlton, Caitlin S.; Vacchi, Laura; Merdad, Roah; Johnston, Bradley C. (19 May 2020). "Dietary interventions for multiple sclerosis-related outcomes". The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 2020 (5): CD004192. doi:10.1002/14651858.CD004192.pub4. ISSN 1469-493X. PMC 7388136. PMID 32428983.
- ^ Novella, Stephen (2014). "Can Diet Cure MS?". NeuroLogica Blog. Retrieved 18 November 2020.
- ^ Wahls, Terry L; Titcomb, Tyler J (31 Jul 2021). "Impact of the Swank and Wahls elimination dietary interventions on fatigue and quality of life in relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis: The WAVES randomized parallel-arm clinical trial". Mult Scler J Exp Transl Clin. doi:10.1177/20552173211035399. PMID 34377527. Retrieved 30 May 2024.
- ^ Wahls, Terry; Scott, Maria O.; Alshare, Zaidoon (4 June 2018). "Dietary approaches to treat MS-related fatigue: comparing the modified Paleolithic (Wahls Elimination) and low saturated fat (Swank) diets on perceived fatigue in persons with relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis: study protocol for a randomized controlled trial". Trials. 309. doi:10.1186/s13063-018-2680-x. PMID 29866196. Retrieved 30 May 2024.
{{cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link) - ^ Straus SE, Richardson WS, Glasziou P, Haynes RB (2005). Evidence-based Medicine: How to Practice and Teach EBM (3rd ed.). Edinburgh: Churchill Livingstone. pp. 102–05. ISBN 978-0443074448.
- ^ Straus SE, Richardson WS, Glasziou P, Haynes RB (2005). Evidence-based Medicine: How to Practice and Teach EBM (3rd ed.). Edinburgh: Churchill Livingstone. p. 99. ISBN 978-0443074448.
- Biography articles of living people
- C-Class biography articles
- C-Class biography (science and academia) articles
- Unknown-importance biography (science and academia) articles
- Science and academia work group articles
- WikiProject Biography articles
- C-Class Alternative Views articles
- Low-importance Alternative Views articles
- WikiProject Alternative Views articles
- C-Class Skepticism articles
- Low-importance Skepticism articles
- WikiProject Skepticism articles
- Declined requested edits