Talk:The Basement Tapes/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: –– Jezhotwells (talk) 08:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: 10 found and fixed.[1]

Linkrot: no dead links found

Checking against GA criteria

General comments, first:

The sound of Dylan backed by a rock band generated much audience hostility Does the citation say much or is it just some hostility?Y

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
Well written, sufficiently follows MoS
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
References good, assume good faith for print sources.

One slight query above.
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
Well balanced, avoiding too much intricate detail.
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
One image used with suitable rationale.
Overall:

Pass/Fail:

On hold for seven days for above query to be addressed, otherwise very good. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 15:28, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid I don't have access to the book used as a source, so I've added a second one that supports the claim. - I.M.S. (talk) 15:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with I.M.S. substitution of 2nd Heylin source, so I've deleted the first ref. New ref says: "Glasgow in keeping with most of the northern shows had fans shouting 'Rubbish!' and 'Shut up!'" There is an anecdote about one 'fan' pulling a knife and threatening Dylan as a "traitor to folk music" (an incident that was dramatised in the film I'm Not There). Mick gold (talk) 17:33, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, my problem is with the use of the word much. The quote above about Glasgow says fans were shouting 'Rubbish' and 'Shut up'. At the Colston Hall on 10 May, some folkies shouted out 'Disgraceful', but many others in the audience shouted at them, asking them to shut up. I remember, I was there! )Yes, I know, OR!). The Times review of one of the Albert Hall concerts (27 May 166, page 7) has: "After the interval, however, judgement became difficult as Mr. Dylan's voice to the evident dissatisfaction of a section of the audience, was all but drowned by his accompanists." Andy Kershaw reports John Coldwell (who shouted Judas at Manchester) saying 'So, why - as a young Manchester law-student in 1966 - had he done it? "I think most of all I was angry that Dylan... not that he'd played electric, but that he'd played electric with a really poor sound system. It was not like it is on the record [the official album]. It was a wall of mush. That, and it seemed like a cavalier performance, a throwaway performance compared with the intensity of the acoustic set earlier on. There were rumblings all around me and the people I was with were making noises and looking at each other. It was a build-up."'[2]. Bruce Jackson (Newport Folk Festival director says of that first electric performance, "It wasn't Dylan the audience was booing." and goes on to say that the audience was booing Peter Yarrow, who they felt had cut Dylan's performance short.[3].

So, I think it is fair to say "...was greeted with [some] audience hostility.", but not "much hostility. I believe that the word much gives too much weight to the matter. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 18:33, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe it is a mistake to get too hung up on the word 'much'. However, every review of the Live 1966 album focused on the barrage of jeering, booing and slow handclapping that accompanied Dylan's electric set. Reviewing this record in Rolling Stone (RS, Oct 29, 1998) David Fricke wrote: "The rage and disdain in Bob Dylan's voice are unmistakable, even against the poisonous buzz and boos of the crowd... This isn't rock & roll; it's war." That sounds like more than just 'some' hostility to me.

You quote John Cordwell's account of the concert. Heylin quotes the words Keith Butler spoke outside the 1966 Manchester concert in the movie Eat The Document: "It was a bloody disgrace it was. He wants shooting. He's a traitor."

As for Newport 1965, not everyone agrees with Bruce Jackson. Murray Lerner who filmed the performance says: "I absolutely think that they were booing Dylan going electric." [4]

Fascinating stuff but I've removed the word 'much'. Mick gold (talk) 20:53, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I really believe that that is best, in the interests of good encyclopaedic practice. I am happy to pass this as GA status. In passing I should meantion that the Manchester concert (17 May) was not the last of that tour. The Albert Hall was (26-27 May) –– Jezhotwells (talk) 21:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks, Jezzhotwells, for your review. Shall we proceed to WP:FAC? Mick gold (talk) 21:12, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Probably worth a go, but you may need to cite the personnel on each track and might run into difficulties with Sid Griffin's speculations. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 21:21, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your review, Jezzhotwells, and thanks Mick gold and I.M.S. for all your hard work! I say we do proceed to FA. As Jezzhotwells says, we may run into obstacles, but that's part of the fun of being a Wikipedia editor, dealing with such obstacles. I have confidence we can handle the challenges. One point: I will have very limited access to the Internet from July 23 to a couple weeks after that. I may be able to make it online a tiny bit in there but cannot count on too much. I think we should either jump in immediately and hopefully the FAR process will be well under way by then (but it's quite possible we may still be dealing with some thorny issues by then) or else we'll need to wait five or six weeks from now. I say let's dive in immediately, and I'm sure even if I'm not there much at the end you two can deal with things. But if you two don't feel comfortable with that, then it's better that we wait. Moisejp (talk) 22:47, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would be happy to go for it now. Mick gold (talk) 07:19, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sure! Who should file it? - I.M.S. (talk) 21:22, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'll go ahead and do it right now. Moisejp (talk) 03:39, 3 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]