Talk:Timber Sycamore

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A fact from Timber Sycamore appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 30 September 2016 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Timber Sycamore is a covert CIA program that arms and trains rebels in the Syrian civil war?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2016/September. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Timber Sycamore.

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Infobox sourced from fringe conspiracy sites

There is no way that the text or the sources restored in this revert by Huldra can be considered encyclopedic. The infobox text should neutrally and concisely reflect the article. The article is well sourced already so it is not legitimate to go beyond it by drawing on fringe sites such as GlobalResearch and The American Conservative. I guess Fox is considered RS for some international news, but the Fox source (which is mostly about Train and Supply not Timber Sycamore does not make the claim in the bullet that the latter programme strengthened ISIS; it talks about arms deflected to al-Nusra. Less importantly, "flooding" is non-encyclopedic language imho: although one source does use that term - but I don't think we should use it in our voice in the infobox (I don't really like it in the lede, but at least there is is qualified as an unintended consequence and is clear that it is small arms like assault rifles). Please can that revert be undone. BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:25, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with BobfromBrockley, and I would like to add the following. US limited support for rebels was never intended to enable them to topple Assad, but to weaken him, hoping for a coup from within the Alawite Baathist regime. A US military document states: "training opposition forces’ to ‘try to break the back of the Alawite forces, elicit collapse from within" (https://mondediplo.com/outsidein/syria-democracy-documents). Obama also referred to Syrian rebels as 'farmers, teachers, pharmacists & dentists', whom he considered unfit to topple Assad (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/06/26/are-syrian-opposition-fighters-former-farmers-or-teachers-or-pharmacists/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b9e3d077cb8e). Although the US provided a limited 'train & equip' program to rebels, it did not protect them from regime's & Russian air raids. Obama also ruled out MANPADS. In effect, vetted, moderate rebels were abandoned, weakened & left to face attacks from regime, Russia, Iran, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, ISIS & Kurdish YPG/PKK. When rebels battled terrorist groups like ISIS & Nusra, the US & allies never backed them up. This weakened moderate rebels & resulted in Nusra overrunning rebel strongholds & confiscating some arms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mbarotchi (talk • contribs) 23:36, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bobfrombrockley Happy to work on improving the infobox, but I request we don't use as a starting platform the edits made by the notorious banned editor Sayerslle. -Darouet (talk) 20:01, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

More (partisan) background

http://maximechaix.info/?p=3821

Maxime Chaix: Timber Sycamore is the codename of a covert operation officially authorized by Obama in June 2013 to train and equip the anti-Assad rebellion, but which actually started in October 2011, when the CIA was operating via Britain’s MI6 to avoid having to notify Congress that it was arming the rebels in Syria. Originally, the CIA and MI6 (the British foreign intelligence service) set up a rebel arms supply network in Syria from Libya — a plan that involved the Saudi, Qatari and Turkish intelligence services. In 2012, probably in spring, Obama reluctantly signed a top-secret executive order, of which little is known other than that it authorized the CIA to provide “non-lethal support” to the rebels in Syria...

etc.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Zezen (talk • contribs) 08:30, 2 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Undue commentary"

Undue tags have been placed on commentaries from the Baltimore Sun and the Sydney Morning Herald. The first is a major paper in the US and the second is the newspaper of record in Australia. Both commentaries echo those of others that we cite in this article. No explanation was given for the tags here at talk. I'm removing the tags. -Darouet (talk) 15:22, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relatedly, k.e.coffman removed one commentary which was critical of the cancellation of Timber Sycamore. I don't feel strongly about this particular ref, but I feel now all our commentary is hostile, making it POV. It's true CIA are an "involved party" but not sure that invalidates him as noteworthy. Might be worth seeing if there are other analysts who take a similar position. Here's one I stumbled on:

Itani, Faysal (21 July 2017). "The End of American Support for Syrian Rebels Was Inevitable". The Atlantic. Retrieved 9 November 2022.

BobFromBrockley (talk) 15:41, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this would work. Although the assessment is nuanced, such as: "Thus, by the time of Trump’s inauguration, the U.S. covert program, which was never particularly bold to start with, was already a shadow of its former self." --K.e.coffman (talk) 16:26, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why is Mossad not on the list?

Israeli officials have literally admitted they armed Isis. They gave them money and weapons. And Isis even apologized once. Syria Complained more than once that the Israeli Air Force was bombing them while they were fighting Isis.

So how come Mossad isn’t on the list? 96.241.27.205 (talk) 02:19, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]