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Wiki Education assignment: Foundations II

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 June 2024 and 17 August 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bbadhesha, Ucstudybd, C.chang04, Clcorp (article contribs). Peer reviewers: JohnnyLi24, Vy Ton, Irenamurray, Eileemendoza, Jaysamson10.

— Assignment last updated by Health Economics and Policy (talk) 16:19, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

new revisions 07.2024

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planning to add more info on HIV in the transgender community, slight organization and edits in other sections as needed Ucstudybd (talk) 07:00, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Foundations 2 2024, Peer reviews from Group 2

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Person A:

1. Do the group’s edits substantially improve the article as described in the Wikipedia peer review “Guiding framework”?

Lead:They have not updated the lead to reflect new contents added.

Content:The group added new relevant contents around topics such as history, unmet needs, HIV, detransitioning, and advocacy. In addition, they added onto several existing contents.

Tone and Balance:Overall, the they did a great job at using neutral language with their contents. I only found one edit which the group can consider make a change below:

- Instead of using great to describe the event, the group could use neutral words such as "major" for the following edit "In 1966 the John Hopkins Gender Clinic was started. It was a great step towards transgender healthcare as it provided care for transgender individuals, including hormone replacement therapy, surgery, psychological counseling, and any other gender affirmative healthcare."

Sources and References:They did a great job by citing mostly secondary sources. Some sources used are websites of organization, but I decided it was fine since they used these sources to describe the services provided by those organizations. There is one online article which they can consider change to a more reliable source.

Organization:Contents are located in appropriate places on the page.

Images&Media:They added one picture.

2. Has the group achieved its overall goals for improvement?

The team did achieve most of their goals. They also added contents not discussed in their plan such as HIV, trans old adults, and detransitioning.

Background/History (Balpreet)- yes

Healthcare Needs (Bill) - yes

Disparities (unmed needs) -Discrimination (Bill) - not sure

-Knowledge incompetency (Christine) - no

-Research Incompetency (Cindy) - no

-Insurance (Balpreet) - yes

Advocacy/Resources (Cindy)- yes

Expands Health experience section (Christine) - yes

3. Does the article meet Wikipedia guidelines?

Yes, they have written in a neutral manner and provided citation for all contents added.

Person A: Does the draft submission reflect a neutral point of view?

Overall, the team added in content in a neutral point of view just as I mentioned in question 1 except for the one place I pointed out (please refer to question 1).--JohnnyLi24 (talk) 23:05, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Person D:

1. Yes, the team’s edits have substantially improved the article as outlined in the Wikipedia peer review’s “Guiding framework.” They have added a new section specifically addressing "HIV in transgender people," which enriches the content by covering a critical aspect of transgender healthcare. Furthermore, the team has expanded the "Health experiences" section, providing a more comprehensive understanding of the unique health challenges faced by transgender individuals. They also worked on enhancing the citations throughout the article, ensuring that the information is well-supported by reliable sources. Overall, these improvements have significantly enhanced the quality and depth of the article, making it a more valuable resource. Vy Ton (talk) 22:56, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2. The group has met its overall improvement objectives. They have effectively introduced significant new content, including the section on "HIV in transgender people," expanded existing sections like "Health experiences," and enhanced citation quality. These contributions collectively make the article more detailed and well-supported, fulfilling their aim of increasing its depth and relevance. Vy Ton (talk) 22:56, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

3. The article meets Wikipedia guidelines. The team has diligently adhered to the principle of using neutral language, ensuring that the information is presented in an unbiased and balanced manner. They have also made a concerted effort to base their content on reliable sources, such as the CDC, which enhances the credibility and accuracy of the information provided. By focusing on these guidelines—neutrality and verifiability—the article upholds Wikipedia's standards for reliable and objective content, thereby ensuring it serves as a trustworthy resource for readers. Vy Ton (talk) 22:56, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply] 

   D. Yes, the edits incorporate language that promotes diversity, equity, and inclusion. By including data on the higher rates of HIV infection among transgender individuals, the edits address health disparities impacting this group. The use of reputable sources like the CDC and adherence to USPSTF guidelines highlight the need for personalized healthcare recommendations for transgender people. The recommendation for universal HIV screening among transgender individuals, with follow-up testing based on individual risk, underscores a commitment to equitable healthcare practices that cater to their specific needs. This approach supports inclusivity by acknowledging and tackling the distinct health challenges faced by transgender individuals.Vy Ton (talk) 22:55, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Person B: Jay Samson

1) Yes, the group has made substantial edits to this articles. They have added certain sections that gives this article a more meaningful value. For example, adding the section of "HIV in transgender people," gives insight on prevalent HIV are with transgender people and how care have changed to treat HIV in this population. Additionally, the section for advocacy shares how much transgender care have changed throughout the years, which shows how much we have come from before.

2) Yes, I think the group has done a perfect job on improving the overall goal of this project. As the sections they have added gave the article more history and well-rounded detail that is backed with valuable evidence.

3) Yes, the articles does meet the Wikipedia guidelines. As they group uses effective language and shows no bias between the topic.

B) The group use reliable secondary sources that backs up their information throughout the changes they have made to this article. The articles are freely available and have been obtained in reliable journals and review articles of each topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaysamson10 (talk • contribs) 18:11, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Person C: Eilee Mendoza

1. Yes, the group definitely improved the article through their edits. They added more organizational structure to make the article easier to read and digest. They also went about the information through a different lens that is more inclusive to different communities.

2. Yes, the group has been successful in their goal of improving the article. They added a lot more depth to article and added a lot more valuable information to the article that I think benefits the public on being educated on. Alongside educating the public on new communities, the people that belong to that community also will feel more included and valued which is very important.

3. Yes, the article meets the Wikipedia guidelines because they are secondary sources that come from reliable sources. C. Yes, I would definitely say the edits remain consistent with Wikipedia's manual of style. One thing that really stood out was how organized the article was. The group utilized the headers to section off the information which I think adds to the quality of an article on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eileemendoza (talk • contribs) 19:35, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Person B: Irena Murray

1. Do the group's edits substantially improve the article as described in the wiki peer review "guiding framework"?

Yes, the placement of the History section before the Healthcare Needs of Transgender People section makes the most sense ensuring that the reader gets an insightful background before being introduced to the logistics of gender-affirming care. Additionally, the inclusion and detailing of the Advocacy for Transgender Health Care is incredibly succinct and at an appropriate length compared to the importance of its subject, as are all the group's edited articles. Lastly, the expansion of the health experience and insurance sections leaves the reader with a good understanding of the topic of transgender healthcare without feeling as if the author had any perspective that wasn't neutral. As a whole, the group's edits substantially improved the article as per the guiding framework guidelines.

2. Has the group achieved their overall goals for improvement?

Yes, the group have successfully represented their achievement of stated goals through their addition of sections to the article including advocacy and history and their expansion of the information already provided - specifically the health experiences and healthcare needs portions.

3. Are the claims included verifiable with secondary cited sources that are freely available?

Yes, the group's equal integration of various secondary cited sources calls for a more balanced view on the topic because there were not a lot of statements that were just attributed to one or two of the same sources. A resourceful variety of journal articles and published papers were referenced for the reader to access with ease. No edited statements of this group were left unsourced and all credit was given where credit is due. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Irenamurray (talk • contribs) 20:15, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Goals

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  1. Determine what sections should be added to article (advocacy, history, background, efforts, disparities)
  2. Expand on the information provided
  3. Add images to article
  4. Find references/ resources
  5. communicate with each other on changes/edits made
Finish Article by Tuesday (July 30th, 2024)
Start working on presentation by Wednesday morning and finish presentation by Thursday night.

128.218.42.61 (talk) 23:07, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Outline/Plan

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This is our propose plan/outline for our article.
Lead: Transgender Healthcare
Article body
Background/History (Balpreet)
Healthcare Needs (Bill)
Disparities (unmed needs)
-Discrimination (Bill)
-Knowledge incompetency (Christine)
-Research Incompetency (Cindy)
-Insurance (Balpreet)
Advocacy/Resources (Cindy)
Expands Health experience section (Christine)
Referenceshttps://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/transgender-health-what-you-need-to-know
https://transcare.ucsf.edu/guidelineshttps://www.who.int/standards/classifications/frequently-asked-questions/gender-incongruence-and-transgender-health-in-the-icd Bbadhesha (talk) 22:47, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

128.218.42.61 (talk) 23:10, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Progress

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Balpreet:

Added 7,000 characters, 1 image, and 10 references

Added an insurance section where we discussed how insurances can be a big obstacle in receiving gender affirming care

Added a background section where different definitions were discusses and an introduction to the topic was added.

Added a history section where we discussed what transgender healthcare has gone through over time and how it has reached to the access now. Bbadhesha (talk) 17:33, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cindy:

Added 5,443 characters, 0 image, and 7 references

Added the "Advocacy for transgender health care" section where advocacy groups for transgender health are listed. C.chang04 (talk) 00:35, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Christine: Added characters: 8174 Added image: 0 Added reference: 7 Expanded on the Health experiences section by adding different negative experiences of transgender individuals in health care and how knowledge and training of healthcare professionals in this specific patient population can positively impact the health outcomes and well-being of this population. Clcorp (talk) 01:05, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is this section of value, and balanced: "Advocacy for transgender health care"

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The content here has been added recently. It is very many words, and written in a flowery, hard to read tone.

Q) For brevity: Are there reasons why the organizations listed could not simply have a sentence each?

Q) For wiki balance: should there not also be a list of advocacy organizations that criticize elements of transgender heath care, or who advocate different approaches?Peckedagain (talk) 21:23, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The section was added by C.chang04 - so I will ping their talk page to share their further thoughts here, too. Peckedagain (talk) 23:19, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes the content is valuable, and no, we don't generally have WP:CRITS sections "for wiki balance" or include specific criticism that promote WP:FRINGE points or oppose something just because they don't like something. Raladic (talk) 23:31, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reversion of section: 'Gender exploratory care'

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Raladic reverted with "This page is not here to try to whitewash conversion therapy, which is widely condemned worldwide." While I personally find it objectionable. I'm not sure that "widely condemned worldwide" is accurate as I expect that condemnation of conversion therapy is largely restricted to approximately the same countries that allow some form of Marriage Equality. (Yes, I know that is the LGB, not the T, but a similar group, which represents well less than half the population of the planet. At minimum, I'd like to see referenced condemnation in both India and the PRC before such a statement would be accurate. I'm still not sure I agree with the reversion or not, but I think it needs to be more nuanced as a reason.Naraht (talk) 22:31, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As is current consensus on Wikipedia, we have a subsection on Conversion therapy titled Conversion_therapy#Gender_exploratory_therapy that discusses it and the issues of it. It has no place on this article here on Transgender health care, at best, a link to the existing section at Conversion therapy could be added, but the whole section that was added was definitely an attempt at whitewashing it. So yes, I should have also mentioned WP:UNDUE as policy for the reversion instead, given that it is better served as it already currently is at the Conversion therapy article where it belongs. Raladic (talk) 22:36, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Raladic reverted my edit and wrote on my page different words:

  • Your recent edit to Transgender health care seemed less than neutral and has been removed.

I replied on my page that Ralladic could respond here on talk. I would like to learn what aspects of my text she found un-neutral, and which parts where 'whitewashing conversion therapy'.

Looking at my text in full: it mentions conversion therapy twice, the 2nd is quoting scathing criticism of it by UKCP!

  • Gender exploratory care
  • In contrast to the gender affirming approach which moves directly to medical intervention on the basis that the patient knows what they need, the exploratory approach recognizes that many with gender dysphoria have other factors or problems and the patient must be treated as a whole.
  • Some have criticized the exploratory approach as being conversion therapy under another name, including Ashley Florence's article "Interrogating Gender exploratory therapy" in the journal Perspectives on psychological science.
  • Others have supported it, eg in the United Kingdom in November 2023 the professional body the United Kingdom Council for Psychotherapy issued a policy statement: "exploratory therapy must not be conflated with conversion therapy which seeks to change or deny a person’s sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Conversion therapy as so defined is harmful and must not be practised." and that "Within the interim Cass Review report, the exploratory approach is described as ‘therapeutic approaches that acknowledge the young person’s subjective gender experience, whilst also engaging in an open, curious, non-directive exploration of the meaning of a range of experiences that may connect to gender and broad self-identity’".
  • Others have supported gender exploratory therapy, eg an article in the Archives of Sexual Behaviour: 'One Size Does Not Fit All: In Support of Psychotherapy for Gender Dysphoria
  • ---------------- Peckedagain (talk) 23:10, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As it is 100% apparent that my edit was not 'whitewashing conversion therapy, but rather the opposite: I will revert Raladic's deletion. Peckedagain (talk) 23:10, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, please refer to Talk:Conversion_therapy#Gender_Exploratory_Therapy_-_Cass_Review for an at length discussion of the content in the right article. It simply is not WP:DUE for the article here at Transgender health care.
These WP:FRINGE views do not warrant legitimizing conversion therapy as health care and are not due for this article here, just as you will find that after that lengthy discussion at the article where it does belong, very little was added for the UK either.
Wikipedia is a worldwide encyclopedia and this is a top level article on Transgender health care, not to promote WP:FRINGE pseudoscience of conversion therapy, no matter the name. A single sentence of Some have criticized the exploratory approach... does not address the NPOV pushing that happened here. So again, the content is simply not due in this article here, take it to the Conversion therapy talk page that I linked the lengthy discussion of when this was discussed last month(s) where you will find that it also was found undue there. Raladic (talk) 23:15, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Raladic - you have now taken me to an Arbitration - and mention this edit in it? Why curtail the discussion here in Talk so rapidly? The arbitration thing is a little scary, I must say. Sledgehammer to crack a nut? Peckedagain (talk) 00:30, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Raladic you mentioned the Conversion therapy page -so as suggested I have posted there the statement of UKCP regards exploratory care versus conversion therapy -[therapy&diff=prev&oldid=1240883231|see this URL] Peckedagain (talk) 00:51, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Raladic -I did what you suggested and mentioned the UKCP on the Conversion Therapy page -and you have immediately reverted it -writing: "Revert WP:NPOV per the talk page discussion that found this undue (which you were informed of)"
I'm finding this arbitration action you have taken and this latest revert thoroughly confusing.
How can we two calm things down between us? Peckedagain (talk) 01:02, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I above specifically linked you to a Talk:Conversion_therapy#Gender_Exploratory_Therapy_-_Cass_Review talk page discussion, which discussed the UKCP statements and found them undue and you simply went and added them anyway. You were welcome to read that talk page discussion, but not to ignore the consensus and add what you believe is right. Raladic (talk) 01:14, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 August 2024

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Transgender health care → Transgender healthcare – For this type of article, "healthcare" is preferred over "health care". See below for details. Jruderman (talk) 18:37, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Healthcare" is more common in longer titles:

"Health care" is more common in shorter titles:

— Jruderman (talk) 18:37, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion & !votes

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