Talk:USS Enterprise (XCV 330)

"With Earth’s national registry prefixes (British HMS and Russian VK) still in use up to the founding of the Federation (2161) it is probable that USS still meant United States Ship in the same timeframe (the USA was still around before 2161). If so, that would make this an American starship."

-Is this right? I thought that by the time of Enterprise we had a one Earth government. So we can assume the USS Enterprise NX-01 is an 'American' ship too? Yet it has various nationalties on board... The USA might still be around, but as part of a united earth government. Magic Pickle 22:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Enterprise (NX-01) does not have USS in its name (not on the hull or in any dialog, there was one Okudagram that did use USS, but that was a production error.)

If you want to get really picky, the NX-01 would be the UESPA Enterprise NX-01 —MJBurrage • TALK • 21:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So we can therefore assume that By the time of ENT we have a one world government - and USS refers to a Federation, not American, ship. ???? Magic Pickle 17:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The following timeline highlights some key dates in USA history and Earth’s early interstellar exploration. Of particular note, the USS Enterprise XCV 330 predated United Earth’s Starfleet, and the nations of Earth continued to use national prefixes on ships up to the founding of the UFP.

2033 — The United States began to use a 52-star flag. (TNG: "The Royale")
2053 — WWIII ended with the peace treaty signing in San Francisco. (ENT: "Demons")
2063 — A Vulcan survey ship made first contact with Earth. (First Contact)
2079 — The United States stopped using a 52-star flag. (TNG: "The Royale")
2105 — The VK Yuri Gagarin was launched by Russia (TNG: "Up the Long Ladder")
2120 — The HMS Lord Nelson was launched by Britain (TNG: "Up the Long Ladder")
2123 — The USS Enterprise XCV-330 was launched (Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology)
2120s — The European Hegemony was a forerunner of United Earth. (TNG: "Up the Long Ladder")
2135 — The HMS New Zealand was launched by Britain (TNG: "Up the Long Ladder")
2130s — United Earth began Starfleet. (ENT: "First Flight")
2143 — An XCV-type ship was honored with a painting in the 602 Club (ENT: "First Flight")
2150 — The last of Earths nations joined United Earth. (TNG: "Attached")
2151 — United Earth launched the Enterprise NX-01 (there is no prefix before Enterprise)
2154 — The USA still existed as a political entity. (ENT: "Affliction")
2160 — The VK Velikan was launched by Russia (TNG: "Up the Long Ladder")
2161 — Earth founded/joined the UFP (requiring a unified world government)
2167 — The Federation's Starfleet used USS for United Space Ship. (TNG: "Power Play")

—MJBurrage • TALK • 06:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So - Enterprise NX-01 is a 'United Earth' ship, rather than an 'American' one - while other nationality specific spacecraft are still being launched by nation states? If Enterprise NX-01 is launched by a United Earth which all remaining nation states have joined, why are the Russians still launching their own vessels in 2160??Magic Pickle 10:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It just means that United Earth was phased in as a federal government, the same way that the EU is very slowly moving in that direction today. So as United Earth's Starfleet grew, the member-nations would slowly phase out their fleets, with less new ships over time. Given the requirments of being a UFP member (One governemnt per world) 2060 was probably the last year nations launched their own ships. As a side note, United Earth still had it's own division—UESPA—within the UFP's Starfleet as late as Kirk's time. —MJBurrage • TALK • 22:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm... fairly sure I read somewhere that all nations had joined United earth by 2151. This meant they were no longer any nation states. Magic Pickle 17:11, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The State of New York is a member state of the United States, The United States is a member of the UN. So the U.S. being a member of United Earth, does not mean that the U.S. no longer exists. (In fact in a Voyager episode, the USA is still listed as part of an address). So while we know that United Earth had taken over sovereignty from the United States for some things in 2151 (or earlier) when the U.S. joined UE, we do not know the extent of the handover of said sovereignty until 2161, when joining the Federation would require the UE government to be fully sovereign for the whole planet. And even then the U.S. would still exist (in some fashion) as a regional government. —MJBurrage • TALK • 22:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The United States could exist as a geographical region without possessing any form of government. Magic Pickle 13:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sure it could, but all we know for sure is that as of 2154, the USA still existed as a political body, and that the USS Enterprise XCV-330 (~2130s) predates the formation of United Earth (~2140s – 2150)

The rough progression of Earth’s organization is as follows:

Village
Town / Small city
County / Large city
State / Small country
Large country (the level of Real power today)
United Nations / United Earth (the level of Real power from 2150 – 2161)
United Federation of Planets (the level of Real power since 2161)

While the UFP level does not exist today, there is no reason to believe that the country level will go away with either the formation of the UE or the UFP. A country would still be needed for a variety of local administrative tasks and hierarchical organization. The change is that when the countries joined UE, they gave over their sovereignty, and became part of a greater whole. —MJBurrage • TALK • 22:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Star Trek: Enterprise has stated that the NX-01 was the first starship enterprise - how does this affect the XCV 330? Magic Pickle 18:28, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What is the exact quote? Archer’s office includes drawings of previous Enterprises, and these included the XCV 330. The NX-01 is United Earth’s first Enterprise, but is not the first Enterprise on/from Earth.

As for whether or not the XCV 330 is a "star ship" or just a "space ship" even by Kirk’s time that distinction could be fuzzy, since the NCC-1701 was referred to as both. In "Bread and Circuses" the distinction was explained as being based on the quality of the ship, but also the quality of the crew.

Proconsul — You’re a clever liar, Captain Kirk. Merikus was a spaceship captain. I’ve observed him thoroughly. Your species has no such strength.

Merikus — He [Kirk] commands not just a spaceship, proconsul, but a starship. A very special vessel and crew. I tried for such a command.

—MJBurrage • TALK • 20:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rick berman press release quoted in SFX 80 - "You'll see the first guys who go out into space." Save star trek ad in newspaper "this is the first captain, the first crew". The text commentary on Season 4 dvd calls it the first enterprise as well but need to check this. I'll have to fire up thedvd player again for a better reference. Magic Pickle 18:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Um, I hate to point this out here, but these timelines (the Okuda one and the Spaceflight Chronology) are entirely incompatible. By the 2130s in the Spaceflight Chronology the Federation has been formed already (in the 2080s) and the Romulan War is done and over with (in the 2100s). you can't just graft dates from one to the other. Morwen - Talk 14:24, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct, and while the Spaceflight Chronology was official at the time of its publication, most of it has since been made incorrect by later episodes. But we do know that the ship pre-dates the NX-01 (the XCV 330 is pictured as a past Enterprise in Captain Archer’s quarters), and that it was already historic even earlier (a painting an XCV 330 type ship appeared in 2143. As Magic Pickle points out, Star Trek: Enterprise says the NX-01 is Starfleet’s first Enterprise. So based on the Enterprise series, it is Star Trek Cannon that the XCV 330 Enterprise pre-dates, United Earth’s Starfleet. Since The USA exists as a country as late as 2154 (see above) U.S.S. pre-2143 suggests that under current cannon, the ship is American.

As far as the details of the design described in the Spaceflight Chronology, a ship of this hull shape, at a length of 300m could only hold ~900 people if the rings are the passenger space. This all predates the cannon appearance of ring-shaped warp nacelles on Vulcan ships. Based only on on-screen information it would make much more sense for the rings to be a Vulcan technology based warp design, in which case the ship could not possibly hold the passengers described.

So while the XCV 330 has never been discussed on-screen, from on-screen visual evidence we do know that:

The XCV 330 pre-dates 2143, which also pre-dates the USA’s full entry into United Earth
The XCV 330 was not a Starfleet ship
The nations of Earth still used national registry prefixes until 2161

Based on all of that; concluding that the XCV 330 was American is not only possible, but probable (albeit not conclusive) and as such warrants mention.

—MJBurrage • TALK • 05:59, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are speculating. Your personal speculation counts as Wikipedia:original research and thus should not be on Wikipedia. If you can find this speculation in a published source, such as one of the reference works or periodicals, it should go. I have removed the speculation again. Please refrain from adding speculation again. Morwen - Talk 10:06, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Where in the current paragraph am I speculating? I reworded the paragraph to make it a clear list of factual information relevent to the time period, including a source for the USA's existance through the 2150's. Any conclusion as to the implications is up to the reader. —MJBurrage • TALK • 17:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In what way does "Affliction" assert that the US still exists? I have not seen the episode and can find nothing on memory-alpha about this. Does it do so in dialogue? Is there a random american flag? Okudagram?

I have by the way checked my dvd copy of remastered TMP and the wording is (of course) illegible, and I found no dialogue in the movie calling it specifically the "USS Enterprise". We just get "all these ships were called Enterprise" or somesuch. Certainly it is kind of couched in other terms, now. But saying "It is uncertain", ruling out UESPA, and then saying "ah, but you see it could be the US", all based on some illegible text? 82.45.195.6 22:00, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I was going to add something along these lines. Althoug MJ Burrage's reasoning is very reasonable, it isn't canon - as these facts have not appeared onscreen. For all we know The ringship Enterprise might have been constructed out of tinfoil in the future, sent back through time and piloted exclusively by Icelanders - as Enterprise has shown, reasonable fan speculation (such as that seen on this article) counts for absolutely nothing until it is up there on the screen. All we know for sure about this ring ship is that it existed sometime, somewhere, ein the Trek universeMagic Pickle 15:21, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Starship" TV Series

In that entry, the description of the show sounds a hell of a lot like "Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda." If "Starship" WAS in fact the basis for "Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda," should a mention of that be made in the article?? --Promus Kaa 22:05, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removed a line

From the line "with a launch date of 2123 (which in that original timeline, places it prior to the founding of the Federation, and only 60 years before the launch of the Enterprise NCC-1701)" I removed the part that says "and only 60 years before the launch of the Enterprise NCC-1701." The 1701 was launched in 2245, not 2183. --NME 21:56, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Enterprise was launched in the 2180s according to the timeline that was official up until the release of Next Gen. Early in the first season they started to give dates that did not fit the old timeline, and the current chronology is based on the newer interpretation. —MJBurrage • TALK • 00:30, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The original time-line has the launch of the first Constitution-class starship as 2188, which in itself is later than the "60 years after 2123" time-frame given. And the Enterprise wasn't the first. Unless the original time-line blatantly contradicts itself, there's no way the NCC-1701 could've been launched in 2183, so the phrase "and only 60 years before the launch of the Enterprise NCC-1701" is still incorrect. --NME 20:38, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So instead of deleting it, why not change it to 65 years or six decades as I just did. The usage of 60 years for an 80's date compared to a 20's date is not that unusual. —MJBurrage • TALK • 13:42, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect

I redirected this page. It is a collection of plot summary focusing on a background illustration. --EEMIV (talk) 19:02, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I restored the page and did a little cleanup. None of the material is original to this article, it all comes from the cited TrekPlace article, books, and the film/episodes to have shown images of the ship. —MJBurrage^(T•C) 18:45, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Trekplace is an unreliable fan site, and this article still fails to make an assertion of -- let alone a substantiation of -- notability. It is, after all, nothing more than a picture that has come up a couple of times for which a few obscure publications have created a backstory. Please show evidence the ship has been subject of significant coverage by multiple third-party sources, otherwise the redirect should be restored. --EEMIV (talk) 04:31, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Finally getting around to restoring the redirect. Merged some of the content to the target article, but this subject in and of itself fails WP:GNG. --EEMIV (talk) 13:54, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]