Talk:Utah State University

Flag that this article uses shallow references to the home page or some other high level page of a website that contains the cited document. (June 2024)

I reviewed the references and saw that the article points to the Fast Facts page on usu.edu eight times. I'll work to find alternative verifiable sources to support the associated claims the article makes. Please feel free to join me in addressing this.--TaffyPuller1832 (talk) 18:22, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

I have added outside citations wherever possible to address this claim, which appears to be tied to the "Fast Facts" citation previously used as the sole citation for eight claims. It is now used to support four claims as the secondary citation. With that work complete, I will close the shallow references template. It appears RedRaiderEngineer applied this and other templates, so if they see this talk page and could clarify further, that would be valuable. TaffyPuller1832 (talk) 13:34, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I have added outside citations wherever possible to address this claim, which appears to be tied to the "Fast Facts" citation previously used as the sole citation for eight claims. It is now used to support four claims as the secondary citation. With that work complete, I will close the shallow references template. It appears RedRaiderEngineer applied this and other templates, so if they see this talk page and could clarify further, that would be valuable. TaffyPuller1832 (talk) 19:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Flag that this article may rely excessively on sources too closely associated with the subject, potentially preventing the article from being verifiable and neutral

I've been working on broadening the article's citations, replacing usu.edu citations with external citations where possible. --TaffyPuller1832 (talk) 18:19, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Claim that page disproportionally focuses on athletics

It's unfortunate that the most detailed portion of this page focuses on athletics, a venture in the periphery of the mission and purpose of Utah State University.

Edit: I got curious about the above claim. If we consider word count as one measure of "detail," at the time of evaluation, its "History" section (1,216 words), "Colleges" section (1,624 words), and "System" section (1,545 words) all have more detail than the "Athletics" section (950 words). Additionally, "Athletics" is positioned in the article's periphery toward the bottom of the content. I'm afraid I have to disagree with whoever made the above claim. TaffyPuller1832 (talk) 15:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

External links modified

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Hello, all.

I'm hoping to respond to this flag on the page that "this article may rely excessively on sources too closely associated with the subject, potentially preventing the article from being verifiable and neutral. (June 2024)" I'm working my way from the top of the article downward, looking for opportunities to replace usu.edu references with external references wherever possible to strengthen the article's objectivity. Please feel free to join me in this work.TaffyPuller1832 (talk) 14:12, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi, all.

This article had as many as four dead links. I address them all. If you see new ones pop up, please help to update them. TaffyPuller1832 (talk) 19:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Edits are relevant, accurate, and well cited.

Please give reason for deletion of well-cited, accurate and relevant edits. Information is relevant to Utah State University.

Edit warring to add details to lede

An unregistered editor is insisting that the lede of this article include several details that I believe are unnecessary: (a) the university is the only land-grant research institution in the state, (b) a sentence about the Space Dynamics Laboratory, (c) 2022 NSF-produced ranking of research and development expenditures, and (d) a claim that "USU's undergraduate research program is the second oldest program of its kind in the nation." This information is all unnecessarily detailed for the lede which is supposed to be a brief summary of the most important information in the article. ElKevbo (talk) 01:54, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

My apologies, not trying to trying to insist anything. But, out of curiosity, why is it unnecessary? It would appear that other institutions of higher learning have similar detail in the ledes to their articles. All of this would appear to be some of the more important information contained in the article. Other institutions appear to have much longer ledes than this page. Comparatively for a university, the lede for this page appears to be quite short. Just curious as to why this information, which appears to be pretty generally-known information, is unnecessarily detailed?

I mean, let's look at this objectively:

(a) the university is the only land-grant research institution in the state -- This is a true statement. Moreover, other institutions of higher learning that are the only land-grant institutions for their state have this claim in the lede for their pages. Again, is there is there a problem to say something similar in the lede for USU's page, when for example, Ohio State University's page makes the same statement?

(b) a sentence about the Space Dynamics Laboratory -- This arguably the most notable piece of information from the entirety of main article. While I can agree this one has detail, it happens to be one of the more important details in the main article.

(c) 2022 NSF-produced ranking of research and development expenditures -- This is a common ranking to include in the lede. Many university wiki pages include their NSF research ranking in the lede -- especially if the university is a known research university.

(d) a claim that "USU's undergraduate research program is the second oldest program of its kind in the nation." -- Also detailed, but also highly distinctive and a fairly important piece of information.

Also, why your recent blanket deletions on rankings? I did not make those edits, but they would appear to be highly relevant and informational.

Again, more curious than anything. Cheers. ;) 174.52.243.254 (talk) 02:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

(a) In the original Morrill Act, each state was only allowed to create one land-grant institution. There have been a few subsequent acts that have created a few more institutions but most states have only one or perhaps two land-grant research universities. So this fact is simply not worth mentioning in the lede.

(b) - (d) We have to be very selective about what's included in the lede. One of the ways we make that decision is by trying to figure out what's truly important, measured in part by what's discussed in the body of the article in detail. The lede is not simply a collection of positive facts and claims about the subject.

I'm happy to compromise on the inclusion of brief statements in the lede noting the university's research expenditures and the presence of the SDL. But the claim about the land-grant research status and the undergraduate research programs don't rise to the level of inclusion in the lede. ElKevbo (talk) 13:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I am new to making edits here, and that makes sense. I will prepare a statement on SDL and the research expenditures. Much appreciation. 174.52.243.254 (talk) 18:57, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://www.usu.edu/about/fast-facts/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

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Disputed Claim: West Point of the West

Several universities claim to be "the West Point of the West." Additionally, Utah State University's claim appears to be supported mainly by a student's master's thesis; several other sources within the university cite that as cause for the claim. The thesis makes a plausible-sounding reason for why it might have received such a title but does not substantiate the claim further. Considering the claim's questionable nature and presence among other institutions, it may be beneficial to remove it until a consensus on its origin can be reached. Jacy Ensley (talk) 15:55, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm with Jacy on this. Why don't we remove it? What other universities are making this claim? I see Oregon State University makes this claim. Could it be possible that multiple communities referred to their respective universities as the "West Point of the West," and thus, the claim stands? TaffyPuller1832 (talk) 16:45, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

I reviewed the structure of peer institutions like Colorado State, Oregon State, et al., and I see that the intro section is a bit shorter. This is part of Utah State's history, so I added it to the history section in alignment with the placement of Oregon State's claim that it's the West Point of the West. I also acknowledged that this is a claim multiple universities are making, keeping the language neutral and factual. --TaffyPuller1832 (talk) 19:23, 24 September 2024 (UTC)