Talk:Violin Sonatas, Op. 137 (Schubert)

Schubert's Op. 137

@Michael Bednarek: Could you fix this please, put it back where it belongs? Seeing red links for V. Sonatas No. 2 and No.3 recently added to the Schubert Piano navbox, I created new articles for them; they are identical to No.1 which was already created a while ago. Someone just moved No.2 into the wrong namespace and it says it's going to be speedily deleted. I didn't create it as a draft; I created it in mainspace exactly as I did the identical No.3, and I can't move it back there. @Francis Schonken: you just added the Schubert Piano navbox to all three, maybe you know how to fix this one.

I got the info on the specific sonatas from the main page on Schubert Violin Sonatas. Additional details I got from reviewing the score on IMSLP (which I've now added as a source reference to all 3). LisztianEndeavors (talk) 08:51, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

The page move was done by CaptainEek. A stub should not be draftified like that, so I'd ask this user to undo the (little) havoc they caused. If the page lacks sources, relevant reliable sources can be found at Schubert's compositions for violin and piano: that page has 21 references to reliable sources, part of which can be used in this article. A few {{cn}}s should suffice until the sourcing situation is remedied, none of that is however a reason to draftify unilaterally, without consulting anyone. --Francis Schonken (talk) 09:08, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

My bad, I shall rectify. I will have to wait until the redirect gets deleted however, but since it is R2 that should happen pretty quickly. Sorry for the issue :) Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 09:13, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. On the ground of the matter I'm however not convinced we should have three separate pages on Schubert's first three violin sonatas:

• Violin Sonata No. 1 in D major (Schubert)
• Violin Sonata No. 2 in A minor (Schubert) (content currently at Draft:Violin Sonata No. 2 in A minor (Schubert))
• Violin Sonata No. 3 in G minor (Schubert)

These sonatas belong to the same group, similar to Schubert's last sonatas belonging to the same group and not having separate pages. That remains true even if these three violin sonatas hadn't been published under a single opus number, which they were (Op. 137). So a suggestion could be to merge them all to Violin Sonatas, Op. 137 (Schubert). Thoughts? --Francis Schonken (talk) 09:59, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Responding to the ping: I can see reasons to merge all three, or to keep them separate. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:25, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

After page restoration

@Francis Schonken: I was alerted that you had replied to my post on Talk for V.Sonata No.2 but the page was deleted before I could read it. However, the main page was deleted with it, leaving the draft to be moved back to namespace, so the problem is solved and the article is back where it belongs.

I saw your tag for "more sources" on No.3, and since No.1 and No.2 are the same, you could put the same tag on those two as well. But how many sources does it need? All 3 of them are stubs, not much there. Everything there is split off from the main article on Schubert's violin sonatas, with stuff I added (like key signatures) all coming from the score. The score is listed a source. There are no other sources. So is the "more sources" tag really appropriate? You can of course add anything you wish to the three articles, but I'm done with them. LisztianEndeavors (talk) 12:15, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

@Ritchie333: could you undelete the former version of this page by either

• merging its edit history to that of the current page

-or-

• restoring that talk page to Talk:Violin Sonatas, Op. 137 (Schubert)

(whatever is easiest)? Thanks. --Francis Schonken (talk) 12:24, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

@Francis Schonken: I have restored the talk page history and put back the earlier conversation. Hope that's all okay! Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:28, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Tx! --Francis Schonken (talk) 12:29, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

@LisztianEndeavors: all restored now, and still suggesting to merge all three of Schubert's first violin sonatas to Violin Sonatas, Op. 137 (Schubert). If no objection I'll go ahead. --Francis Schonken (talk) 12:33, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

I think merging is a good solution given the above reasoning and general lack of sources. Captain Eek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 18:40, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes. The current Violin Sonatas, Op. 137 (Schubert) is merely an extract from Schubert's compositions for violin and piano, apart from one single entry in Violin Sonatas, Op. 137 (Schubert)#Recordings (which couldn't be placed in Schubert's compositions for violin and piano#Recordings). Violin Sonatas, Op. 137 (Schubert) is currently somewhat over 10000 bytes, and has 13 references to reliable sources. The three separate pages on Violin Sonatas Nos. 1–3 each had, before merging, less than 1500 bytes, i.e., combined less than 4000 bytes. Violin Sonatas, Op. 137 (Schubert) should be further expanded, so that its reason of existence (in a WP:Summary style logic), that is separate from Schubert's compositions for violin and piano, does not solely depend on a single entry in its Recordings section. Further, it would not make sense to re-initiate any separate page on an individual sonata of Schubert's Op. 137 with less than a third of the content (& references) of the Violin Sonatas, Op. 137 (Schubert) page, so currently such individual sonata page should at least have 3500 bytes and five references to reliable sources, imho (and that's only a bare minimum). --Francis Schonken (talk) 22:32, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

"Sonatina in in D major, D 384 (Schubert)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Sonatina in in D major, D 384 (Schubert). Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Regards, SONIC678 05:01, 2 April 2020 (UTC)