Talk:Willa Cather

Steinshouer book

Betty Jean Steinshouer has a new book, Long Road from Red Cloud: Life Lessons from Willa Cather. I haven't read the book itself, but she wrote in a blog about the book that its point is to argue that Cather was born intersex. This is the only reference I have been able to find for such a proposition. This biography is not a WP:BLP, but since I don't think that Steinshouer is a Cather scholar (IMO, the book and its marketing seems to just be for clicks), and since this appears to be the only reference to support that idea, it should not be added here. While being intersex is not a bad thing, we should be cautious about ascribing identity to people when it's not well-supported (so, entirely unlike Cather's lesbianism, or the conjecture about her trans status). Urve (talk) 17:19, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Please don't post negative information about a book you haven't read. If you do at some point get around to reading this book, you'll find that it is based on more than 40 years of Cather research. The reason "such a proposition" as Willa Cather's gender identity being tampered with at birth has not been written about until now should be easily understood, especially with all the insanity about gender in the current political maelstrom. After all, it took decades after her death in 1947 for Cather's lesbian identity to be written about and accepted. Discussion about her intersex condition may be soon beginning, with this ground-breaking book, awarded BookFest's 2020 International Book Award for Biography.

Steinshouer is indeed a seasoned Cather scholar and would probably have waited longer to reveal her conclusions, but for a Stage IV cancer diagnosis in 2018, lending an urgency to finishing and publishing Long Road from Red Cloud within a 2-5 year prognosis. Although she doesn't have a Ph.D., she is well established as an NEH "grass-roots scholar," presenting Humanities programs in 44 states on Cather and other authors since 1989. She was named a Fellow in Florida Studies at the University of South Florida in 2004, has long served on the Florida Humanities speakers bureau as well as toured with Humanities Nebraska's Chautauqua in 2012-2015, portraying Willa Cather. FLTalks (talk) 16:04, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Infobox

Please explain your comment "the infobox is not even wrong but is inherently misleading and, by its nature, intractably so". This is one of the most bizarre edit summaries I can recall. First of all, you should not have reverted me per BRD. The article has long had an infobox, and I objected to your removal. The next step is to start a discussion.

Second, what in the world is misleading about an infobox that states basic facts about a person. That is the purpose of an infobox. How is occupation, birth/death, etc. info misleading?

MB 15:27, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

To answer your question about what is misleading about "basic facts" about a person is that these are, oddly, not facts (or at least, not always regarded as such!). The misleading information is: her date of birth is stated as fact when there is significant debate about it, she was not born in Gore, the "occupation" field is misleading (she was a novelist, hence "not even wrong", but it's misleading because that's not all she was notable for, much less all she was - she was a journalist, a ghostwriter, a biographer, a short story writer, a philanthropist, an agent, and more), and it is impossible to list it all without violating WP:UNDUE because (1) either none of these are included besides novelist, which is undue, or (2) it includes them all and makes them of equal significance, which is also undue. A pickle indeed.

But also, the discussions surrounding Stanley Kubrick's infobox—and specifically, the UNDUE discussions—are helpful and apply here. The infobox places undue weight on trivial biographical information, such as date of death and birth name, over the actual biographical material. Among other things, she is important for being a frequently-mentioned lesbian in early 20th century America, navigating her own persecution, finding and fostering community with writers like Sarah Orne Jewett, and dedicating O Pioneers! to her. An important element of her biography is that she forbade publication of her letters, possibly because they would out her. But infoboxes are intractably misleading (we can't add these to any parameters after all), so I think it's not appropriate.

Because they are not required, I don't think we should introduce it. Urve (talk) 15:56, 22 February 2021 (UTC) Edited; no need for lots of this. Urve (talk) 19:52, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Stout's modernism book

Leaving this as a note for myself, and anyone else who comes across it. Stout's Cather Among the Moderns (2019) has a chapter dedicated to One of Ours and is described in a review as "among the most even-handed assessments of that novel, and her portrayal of Cather’s friendship/tension with Dorothy Canfield in this and other chapters is illuminating". Strong praise for an already well-established scholar. I plan to work through the book and add some more info (only cited in some explanatory footnotes right now), but any help is appreciated. Urve (talk) 20:17, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Willa Cather/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Simongraham (talk · contribs) 03:24, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

This looks an interesting article. I will start a review shortly. simongraham (talk) 03:24, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Review

The article is clearly written and covers an interesting topic. It is stable, 64.5% of authorship is one user, Urve. It is currently ranked a B class article.

• The article is well researched and written in a readable style.
• It is illustrated with relevant images that are marked as in the public domain,
• The wikilink to University of Nebraska redirects to University of Nebraska–Lincoln, but the school is called both in the text. I suggest choosing one.
• Link Pittsburgh, New York City and Edith Lewis in the body at the first mention.
• The term Great Plains is in the lead but not in the body. I suggest adding it to the first mention in the discussion on the Prairie Trilogy.
• Inline citations are numerous and link to credible sources. The sentence "The French influence is found in many other Cather works, including Death Comes for the Archbishop (1927) and her final, unfinished novel set in Avignon, Hard Punishments." has no inline citation. Can you please add the correct one.
• Sense of place is mentioned in the lead but not the body. The lead should be a summary of the article and so it would be good to be consistent.
• The JAILLANT, LISE citation is in all caps, as are the authors BOUTRY, KATHERINE, HOMESTEAD, MELISSA J., BOHLKE, L. BRENT and STOUT, JANIS P. These should be title case.

@Urve: I think that is everything. Please ping me when you would like me to look again. simongraham (talk) 03:51, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

@Simongraham: Thank you very, very much for your kind review. These are all helpful and actionable requests. I believe I have fixed these issues! Urve (talk) 08:57, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Assessment

The six good article criteria:

1. It is reasonable well written

   the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct

   it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead, layout and word choice.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable

   it contains a reference section, presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;

   all inline citations are from reliable sources;

   it contains no original research;

   it contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism.

3. It is broad in its coverage

   it addresses the main aspects of the topic;

   it stays ffocused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail.

4. It has a neutral point of view

   it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to different points of view.

5. It is stable

   it does not change significantly from day to day because of any ongoing edit war or content dispute.

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   images are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content;

   images are (relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

7. Overall:

   Congratulations, Urve. This article meets the criteria to be a Good Article.

   Pass/Fail: -- simongraham (talk) 03:17, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 17:37, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Cather in Paris, 1920

• ... that Willa Cather (pictured) lived the last 39 years of her life with her editor, Edith Lewis?
  • ALT1:... that even though Willa Cather (pictured) destroyed many of her letters, the University of Nebraska–Lincoln is preserving those that remain?
  • ALT2:... that Willa Cather (pictured) is buried alongside her partner of 39 years, Edith Lewis?
  • ALT3:... that F. Scott Fitzgerald said that his book, in comparison to the work of Willa Cather (pictured), was a failure?
  • ALT4:... that the novelist Willa Cather (pictured) was friends with, and taught by, John J. Pershing, the General of the Armies?
  • ALT5:... that the writer Willa Cather (pictured) used the name "William" while growing up?

• Reviewed: Exempt; only two previous nominations.
• Comment: Hopefully one of these hooks are interesting enough! All hooks cited inline in the article.

Improved to Good Article status by Urve (talk). Self-nominated at 13:05, 11 March 2021 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting:

Image eligibility:

• Freely licensed:
• Used in article:
• Clear at 100px: - No, I can't see what's going on at this size

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Image not approved. Struck some hooks as not sufficiently unusual or interesting. Recommend ALT3a—giving the title of the book makes it more recognizable and interesting. (t · c) buidhe 12:44, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• • ALT3a:... that F. Scott Fitzgerald said that his book The Great Gatsby, in comparison to the work of Willa Cather (pictured), was a failure?

• Thanks. I thought the Lewis hooks would be interesting because Lewis is a woman (and there is a new historical book about their relationship published). Hook 3a is my favorite - no worries about the image. Can strike the other hooks if that makes it easier for whoever promotes. Urve (talk) 15:48, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Neither of the hooks referring to the relationship mention the time period taking place. While it is more noteworthy for the early twentieth century, it would not be so noteworthy if Cather lived more recently. Even in the early nineteenth/twentieth century it was not uncommon for women to live together in "Boston marriage". (t · c) buidhe 06:14, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Cites

I need to repair many of the cites. Shortened footnotes seem appropriate for an article of this length and allow for easier verification; also aesthetically pleasing but that's secondary. I am working in my sandbox; raise objections here otherwise I'll proceed per WP:CITEVAR. Urve (talk) 07:50, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

lewis

she died in 1972 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8001:3700:6000:ADC0:3BE1:E99E:469B (talk) 02:06, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Racism

I've recently listened to 'The Affair at Grover Station', a BBC radio dramatisation of 'A classic American ghost tale by Jonathan Holloway, based on Willa Cather's short story'. I was shocked by its racism: the 'baddie' is bad because his mother was Chinese, and no-one contests this. The BBC did offer a 'health warning' before the broadcast. Among the references to this article there's one that hints at racism, but nothing in the article itself. Could someone who knows more about Cather than I do (she's not much more than a name to me) address this? Snugglepuss (talk) 20:08, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm replying, or adding, to myself. I did read the short story itself after hearing the broadcast. https://cather.unl.edu/writings/shortfiction/ss040_1 and https://cather.unl.edu/writings/shortfiction/ss040_2. Snugglepuss (talk) 20:17, 21 January 2023 (UTC)