Template:Did you know nominations/Midnight Sun Mosque
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by theleekycauldron (talk) 21:01, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
No prejudice against renomination if the article is promoted to GA status.
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Midnight Sun Mosque
- ... that the northernmost mosque in the Western Hemisphere (pictured) was built in Winnipeg and shipped to Inuvik by barge and truck? Source: "By constructing it in Winnipeg, then sending it by truck 2,400 km to Hay River and by barge 1,850 km to Inuvik, the Foundation sought to save $150,000.", "Western Hemisphere’s most northern mosque sent to Canadian Arctic", Manitoba Islamic Association; 2010; "In Inuvik, Canada, home to the northernmost mosque in the Western Hemisphere ...", "Celebrating Ramadan in the Arctic", Andrew Martin, The Washington Post; July 10, 2015
- ALT1: ... that biryani served for iftar at the northernmost mosque in the Western Hemisphere (pictured) is made with reindeer meat rather than beef? "The iftar meal includes dates and rich curries—as well as local game such as reindeer, prepared in accordance with Islamic law. 'We make a soup or curry it—we make a biryani, but instead of using beef, we use reindeer.', "Arctic Ramadan: fasting in land of midnight sun comes with a challenge", The Guardian; July 3, 2016
- ALT2:... that fasting during Ramadan at the northernmost mosque in the Western Hemisphere (pictured) uses Mecca's hours of sunrise and sunset but at local time? Same source as above
- ALT3:... that iftar meals at the northernmost mosque in the Western Hemisphere (pictured) sometimes take place in full daylight due to the midnight sun? Same source as above
- ALT4:... that the northernmost mosque in the Western Hemisphere (pictured) nearly fell into a creek twice while being transported to Inuvik? "Finally, after leaving Alberta and entering the North West Territories, the mosque had to cross a very narrow bridge. The Reindeer Bridge was not wide enough to allow the tires of the truck to pass so the mover removed the tires and attempted to balance the structure by way of another truck. At that juncture, the mosque started tipping to the right and nearly fell into the creek. All construction materials inside were then moved to the opposite end, which only made the mosque tip the other way. Thank Allaah SWT, a construction crew,that happened to be on site, brought in their backhoes and tied chains to the beams, may Allaah bless them abundantly for their effort. This prevented the mosque from tipping into the creek.". Manitoba Islamic Association; Hussain Guisti, "Western Hemisphere's most northern mosque sent to Canadian Arctic"
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Elspeth Green
- Comment: I may have some more hooks later this week as I further develop the article
- OK, I do now. Daniel Case (talk) 06:47, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
- One more ... Daniel Case (talk) 06:28, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
- OK, I do now. Daniel Case (talk) 06:47, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
Created by Daniel Case (talk) and Ponderosapine210 (talk). Nominated by Daniel Case (talk) at 19:27, 22 December 2021 (UTC).
- Also, when it makes the Main Page, this will be my 700th DYK. I am very grateful to Ponderosapine210 for having started this. Daniel Case (talk) 18:40, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
Daniel Case, thanks for creating this. New enough when nominated, long enough, no obvious copyvio, image nice at small size and freely licensed. I like alt4, followed by alt2; after that I have no preference. I have two concerns. First, when the article was created, Ponderosapine210 attributed most of its content to Islam in the Arctic. I'm not sure, then, whether this article qualifies for DYK under WP:DYKCRIT #1(b), which says "The content with which the article has been expanded must be new content, not text copied from other articles". The article was 6,297 bytes when created and is now 20,995 bytes, which means it's not a 5x expansion from the initial version attributed to Islam in the Arctic. Second, I have some concerns about WP:RS. The vast majority of Midnight_Sun_Mosque#Building_and_location is arguable WP:OR sourced to Google Maps, which gives me pause for putting this on the main page. Second, what makes [1] and [2] reliable sources? The first of those sources, published by the Manitoba Islamic Association, sources quite a lot of the article and hooks. Overall, I'm concerned about compliance with DYK-specific policies and WP-wide policies as far as passing this goes. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 01:36, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
- @AleatoryPonderings: I'll reserve comment for now on the rest of this, but " The vast majority of Midnight_Sun_Mosque#Building_and_location is arguable WP:OR sourced to Google Maps" deserves immediate response.
First, Google Maps is, I believe, an acceptable source; we wouldn't have {{Google Maps}} for that purpose if there wasn't consensus that it is. If you believe it isn't, what do you recommend as an acceptable alternative?
Second, if you think that descriptions based on images we use as sources are inherently OR, please review WP:OI. While that policy admittedly applies to original images produced by Wikipedians under a free license for use in the encyclopedia, I don't see why the arguments there don't apply equally to the use of unfree images referred to externally. I also believe that since the text I wrote based on the images (both the ones I took in 2015 and some of those in newspaper articles in addition to the Street View images is intended to be purely descriptive, using standard architectural terminology for features plainly visible on the building in multiple photos, per WP:PRIMARY they are "straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source" and thus not original research.
Also see here:
Compiling related facts and information from independent sources is part of writing an encyclopedia. For example, multiple secondary sources are usually required before the notability of a subject is established. Those sources must then be combined to produce a cohesive, comprehensive, and coherent article. Neutral point of view requires presenting all significant viewpoints on an issue, and may include collecting opinions from multiple, possibly biased and/or conflicting, sources. Organizing published facts and opinions that are based on sources that are directly related to the article topic—without introducing your opinion or fabricating new facts, or presenting an unpublished conclusion—is not original research.
- I have had many other articles about buildings accepted at DYK and GA that used Street View this way, to source in whole or part a text description of the building that is standard in any article about architecture, without any complaint from the reviewer(s). Perhaps in the future I will take videos and include them in the article if I have enough time ... had I had time to do so here (or rather, a camcorder with me) I would have walked all around the mosque with it. Daniel Case (talk) 02:57, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
- I can see, based your argument above, how this use of Google Maps and original images can be considered responsible per WP:PRIMARY. Nonetheless, the sheer amount of it gives me some pause (by my rough calculations, about 35 percent of the body text). I take it we typically require secondary sources because our articles should focus on the aspects of a subject that other sources take to be important, not aspects that editors think require substantial coverage. So even if summarizing what Google Maps says is acceptable in the abstract, it approaches WP:UNDUE weight to summarize so much of what Google Maps says when other sources do not focus on what is visible on Street View. All in all, I'm more concerned about the WP:DYKCRIT and WP:RS issues I flagged above than the Google Maps point. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 03:52, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
- @AleatoryPonderings: Per DYKCRIT ... the number that matters is character count with spaces. I did that on MS Word last night, and it came out to a 5.2x expansion. Daniel Case (talk) 03:58, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
- Per the discussion at WT:DYK I am withdrawing this nomination. Daniel Case (talk) 02:52, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
- For posterity's/promoters' reference, the discussion is Special:PermaLink/1062563697#Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Midnight_Sun_Mosque. Sorry that this one didn't end up working out and thanks for your work on a very interesting article. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 06:06, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
- Per the discussion at WT:DYK I am withdrawing this nomination. Daniel Case (talk) 02:52, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
- @AleatoryPonderings: Per DYKCRIT ... the number that matters is character count with spaces. I did that on MS Word last night, and it came out to a 5.2x expansion. Daniel Case (talk) 03:58, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
- I can see, based your argument above, how this use of Google Maps and original images can be considered responsible per WP:PRIMARY. Nonetheless, the sheer amount of it gives me some pause (by my rough calculations, about 35 percent of the body text). I take it we typically require secondary sources because our articles should focus on the aspects of a subject that other sources take to be important, not aspects that editors think require substantial coverage. So even if summarizing what Google Maps says is acceptable in the abstract, it approaches WP:UNDUE weight to summarize so much of what Google Maps says when other sources do not focus on what is visible on Street View. All in all, I'm more concerned about the WP:DYKCRIT and WP:RS issues I flagged above than the Google Maps point. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 03:52, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
- @AleatoryPonderings: I'll reserve comment for now on the rest of this, but " The vast majority of Midnight_Sun_Mosque#Building_and_location is arguable WP:OR sourced to Google Maps" deserves immediate response.