Template talk:Infobox NFL biography/Archive 1

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Achievements section

In looking at the achievement lists on nearly every football player, I've noticed a particularly offputting aspect to them. The achievement sections have become very bloated with excessive information that is poorly presented. In looking through this templates pages, there is some language that addresses this:

• 3x Super Bowl champion (XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX)
• 1x First-Team All-Pro selection (2007)
• 1x Second-Team All-Pro selection (2006)
• 2x Pro Bowl selection (2006, 2007)
• Heisman Trophy (2002)
• First-team AP All-American (2001, 2002)
• First-team All-ACC (2000, 2001, 2002)

A few notes, because I think it needs to be remedied. The form is clunky, inaccurate, and cumbersome to maintain. There is no need to say a person was a ____x All-Pro selection and then list the years. It is repetitive information. One or the other should be sufficient. In the case of truly accomplished players Barry Sanders, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice), these lists become very lengthy and might be difficult to follow if you aren't a football fan. Aka - that's not very encyclopedic. If you are going to use the years individually, why are ranges not included? To list 2000,2001,2002 out separately seems inconsistent with nearly every other site out there. Lastly, I've found one aspect at best confusing and at worse, simply inaccurate. Why does it say 2x Pro Bowl Selection (2006, 2007)? It would seem that the years are often miss-linked as well. I'll see the years 1989 linked to the 1990 pro bowl. Best guess is that the decision there was to emphasize that the selection process takes place prior to the game... but that's simply a SWAG. This is similar to the college football bowl issue. The 2010 Rose Bowl is the one that is coming up, not the one following the 2010 football season. Removing the need to list out the years solves that problem, and if you leave it in there, why is the information not linked accurately? Iamnothuman (talk) 11:48, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

The Pro Bowl selection, which has been argued at length with a now-blocked user, is a dead issue. The year shown is the year of the season because that's when the selection happened and when the season was for. Jake Long played in the 2009 Pro Bowl but if you look in his bio and think about it, he was a selection in 2008. The Pro Bowl thing is just the way it should be.

I don't use 1x at all and I remove it when I see it. It's just useful when there are multiple years listed because it's better than having to count manually. It makes perfect sense to list 4x or whatever.

I also don't list years out (except stuff like Pro Bowls and Super Bowls because they're linked). For stuff like 3x First-team All-ACC (if they're consecutive) I just do (2000–2002).►Chris Nelson^Holla! 16:50, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I saw the discussion on the archives. I'd love it if people would respond to the issues. I don't actually see a resolution to the "pro bowl" issue that you said is dead.Iamnothuman (talk) 03:13, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

I see no issue.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 17:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

This just came up in this year's Pro Bowl. DeSean Jackson was selected to the Pro Bowl as a starting wide receiver AND as a kick returner. How do we show this in the infobox? The IPs are already going crazy. Eagles 24/7 (C) 17:15, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Eagles, I wouldn't reflect it in the infobox. He was selected to the Pro Bowl, so I'd just keep it that simple. It should just say "Pro Bowl selection (2009)" because that's what he was. The specifics are never included in the infobox. The body of the article can have the details.►Chris Nelson^Holla! 17:29, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Okay, that's what I thought. Thanks, Eagles 24/7 (C) 18:08, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

debut/finalyear vs. debut/finalseason?

Preliminary remark: comment placed here as I was directed here from the page for NFLretired infobox (defunct) but do not know if this or NFLplayer infobox is currently preferred (noting that the addition of final year and team info now qualifies it for use for a retired player).

I am concerned the information for debutyear and especially finalyear as defined and displayed in the "Career information" section is potentially confusing for being possibly seen as discrepant with that implied by the data in the "Career history" section or as inconsistent with similar data for other players. Perhaps there is some value to this information that I do not appreciate, but it is not clear to me what is to be communicated by it that cannot be addressed more clearly in the text of the article. To me, the relevant information for comparative purposes is in what season did the player start or end their career. I note that for two players who ended their career in the same season, say 1998, one may have the finalyear listed as 1998 because they did not play in the postseason (or any January regular season games for more recent seasons) and the other 1999 because they played in the post season. The second player may be mistakenly believed (if other info is not inspected) to have ended his career the same season as someone who actually played the next season but did not make the playoffs. I note that NFL.com, in their career summaries for historical players, simply lists the seasons. Similar considerations apply to the debutyear field.

I suggest 4 alternatives (and favor the last):

1. change the field to debutseason and finalseason with an appropriate change of display text in the box
2. give the precise date of the debut or final game - e.g. January 29, 1999
3. list the particular debut or final game - e.g. Game 8 1998 season (not Week 8 given the confusion generated by the bye week) or AFC Championship Game - I understand this would likely mean adding new fields to supplement debutseason/finalseason fields.
4. eliminate them both and let the "Career history" section and text in the body of the article speak to the issue. This also has the advantage of avoiding the sticky problem of whether the Pro Bowl should be considered the final game of a season/career. (Did a player in his final season whose team did not make the playoffs but who played in the Pro Bowl end their career in 1998 or 1999?) Jmcclaskey54 (talk) 00:13, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

About current version

Look at what Dat Nguyen looks like right now under career history. This infobox needs work right now. Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:00, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

How does it make sense to change something that appears automatically to something that has to be manually added? Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:21, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Passer rating/QB rating

It appears every QB has a "QB rating" stat listed. It should read passer rating, as there is no such thing as QB rating. The link goes to passer rating anyway. Is there an easy way to fix this with one edit or do you have to go and fix every QB's page individually? Smk42 (talk) 05:08, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Jersey number

The current listing for jersey number is confusing, save perhaps within the confines of football, which is much narrower than Wikipedia. The infobox should specify "Jersey No." as opposed to only "No." For one thing, many NFL players have become well known beyond their player days, and it's not intuitive to make sense of an entry described only as "No." Additionally, "No." doesn't make it clear whether the the number applies to jersey number, all-time record holding, or what. The infobox needs to be clear for the average Wikipedia user. ENeville (talk) 15:13, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. The template may be too wide, so "No." may just have to link to Squad number instead. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Abbreviate "Height", "Weight"

I suggested to reduce "Height", "Weight" to "Ht", "Wt" with this edit a couple of days ago (consider the <abbr> tags optional). It worked well for the purposed of eliminating that ugly line break in that part of the infobox. Moments ago, User:CWenger reverted it, saying there was "no need" for abbreviation. Now I'm looking to discuss this change here. —bender235 (talk) 01:32, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I've noticed that in some articles, like Devin Hester, the Height field will make a second line. I guess it would be tidier if we used "Ht" and "Wt". --  StarScream1007  ►Talk  01:45, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I probably should have discussed this change first. Part of the reason I did it is because the <abbr> tags didn't seem to work for me in Google Chrome. I like the non-abbreviated version both because of this and also because I would rather make a few infoboxes (e.g. Devin Hester) less attractive than make all of them less attractive. I happen to think the 2 lines is better than the abbreviated height and weight, but I can see both sides on that. Some other alternatives I can think of would be to make the infobox slightly wider (not sure how practical this is) or force the height and weight values to always be on a second line. –CWenger (talk) 17:12, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Is it just me, or does the unabbreviated "Height", "Weight" cause a line break on every NFL player bio?

Also, if you don't like Ht, how about Ht (move cursor over)? —bender235 (talk) 22:26, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

For me, there is only a line break if they have a height with double-digit inches. And neither of those abbreviations show up on Chrome, unfortunately. –CWenger (talk) 22:33, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I have noticed the same issue with the inches. (I'm using Chrome @ 1280x1024 res). There's probably an easy way to fix this, by either manipulating the size of th font or the size of the info box. --  StarScream1007  ►Talk  22:36, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Why not just list height and weight on separate lines? –CWenger (talk) 22:39, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I just tried out with Chrome on my own. Ht works, of course. Just move your cursor over "Ht", and see what happens. —bender235 (talk) 23:07, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

With the <abbr> tag, I get a cursor with a question mark beside it when I hover over it (not sure why it doesn't give you the definition). With the <span> tag, I do get a 'Height' popup when I hover over it, but there is no indication that I should do that since it looks like normal text, and the cursor doesn't change from the edit cursor when I do hover over it. So I am not a fan of this approach when we could just use 2 lines. –CWenger (talk) 23:17, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

The correct markup would be Ht. But I still favor just using 2 lines for simplicity since space is not really that valuable. –CWenger (talk) 23:21, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, there is no indication that you should move over Ht, Wt. But that's not a problem. We could do this w/out the span tag, anyway. I don't think the average reader needs too much brain power to figure out that "Ht: 6 ft 1 in" indicates a height of 6 foot and 1 inch. —bender235 (talk) 00:54, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, but again, I don't see a compelling reason to abbreviate when we could just use two lines. Space is not at that much of a premium. –CWenger (talk) 01:32, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I think both values on a single line would like better. But that's just my opinion. Let's see what other people think. —bender235 (talk) 19:19, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Move to Infobox NFL player

Are there any objections if I move this template to Template:Infobox NFL player? -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:37, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Done. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:36, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Active rosters

How do I get the birth place of all the players on the active nfl rosters

Thank You —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.63.20 (talk) 02:11, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Smaller teams/colors of the info box

How do I edit this template to be the colors of a smaller league teams such as the Indoor Football League, Continental Indoor Football League or the Ultimate Indoor Football League, when entered in as the current team? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DMC511 (talk • contribs) 16:05, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

You will need to add the colors of the teams at Template:NFLPrimaryColor and Template:NFLSecondaryColor. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:09, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

NFL.com link

With NFL.com changing all of their links, most of the current ones are broken, unless the infobox uses the old format. Right now, the links look like http://www.nfl.com/player/toddcarter/2507814/profile. So, the code there should probably look like: {{#if:{{{nfl<includeonly>|</includeonly>}}}| {{!}}- style="text-align: center" ! colspan=2 {{!}} <small>Stats at '''[http://www.nfl.com/player/{{nfl}}/profile NFL.com]'''</small> {{!}}- }}

And in the case of Todd Carter, it would look like:

|nfl=toddcarter/2507814

--Giants27(T|C) 20:18, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, I didn't know what to do when NFL.com changed the format. Eagles 24/7 (C) 23:23, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Current state is that all the old links are getting redirected by NFL.com to the correct player page. But if you now change the url here on the template it will make all the old links useless. And I would think those are in the majority, right? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for solving this problem since I experienced the same difficulties. Just wanted to throw this in for consideration before making a change. Maybe it would be an idea to add an additional parameter for the new NFL links? Actually I have no idea what bots are able to do and what not, so consider this a shot into the dark: Would it be possible that a bot updates all the old links? Armchair QB (talk) 17:16, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Yea, that's not a bad idea, like newnfl=.--Giants27(T|C) 16:36, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

I also agree with that. Eagles 24/7 (C) 17:51, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

"College" header links to List of college athletic conferences in the United States?

I noticed that the "College" title links to List of college athletic conferences in the United States. Would it be better for it to link to College football? The "High School" title links to High school football, afterall. —Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 22:39, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Just noticed this comment, and tried the infobox "College" link. Spyder Monkey is right; this should link to the "College football" article. Linking it to college athletic conferences is an almost useless dead end, IMO. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:47, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

The link was fixed for this infobox, but Infobox NFL retired still had the link. I've changed the link over there to "College football." Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:07, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Redesign

I've made a possible redesign of the template at Template:Infobox NFL player/sandbox, which IMO looks less cluttered and more tight (compare this to this). I'd propose we redesign the infobox accordingly. Albacore (talk) 02:00, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Isn't that just the MLB infobox? Eagles 24/7 (C) 02:10, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I like some of the ideas (shading, gridlines, etc.), but would not support the removal of information like college, draft position, etc. If you can maintain the information the current infobox supports while tweaking the layout, I would be willing to support this change. — DeeJayK (talk) 17:06, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

I think the present infobox serves our needs very well. Admittedly, it is tailored to professional football players, not players of other sports. That's a plus, not a problem. When the various optional fields are properly used, the existing infobox handles the key biographical and career information for virtually all NFL, CFL, AFL and UFL players, as was intended. My only gripe, and it's a small one, is that when the player's height is either 5'10" or 6'10", the displayed height line wraps into two lines. I would be grateful if one of our template experts could tweak the width of the existing "Infobox NFL player" so that this line-wrap does not occur as described. Thanks. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:41, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't see the wrap-around in Firefox. Which browser do you use? Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:04, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I use Firefox, too, but you may have a wider monitor than I do. Mine is a 19-inch screen. As an example, the height for Mike Nugent, who is 5'10", line-wraps in Firefox on my 19-inch monitor. Does it do the same for you? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:40, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I see what you mean. I'll see what I can do. Eagles 24/7 (C) 02:56, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Just took a look at the code, and {{convert}} is the culprit behind the line-wrap. There are only two options I can see: force a line break so that the metric appears on a separate line for all articles or status quo. Eagles 24/7 (C) 03:02, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Better to leave it the way it is. As is, there's no line-wrap 95% of the time. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 05:30, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

debut/final team

These fields don't play nice if the team has moved or needs to be disambiguated. Take Hank Stram for instance. He debuted with the AFL version of the Dallas Texans, which are now the Kansas City Chiefs. What should be in the debutteam field for the infobox is [[Kansas City Chiefs|Dallas Texans]], but that doesn't render properly. I don't know enough about the infobox to fix it. —Wrathchild ^(talk) 17:01, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

WC, try "Dallas Texans (AFL)." Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:42, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

I've fixed the infobox, the code for piping here is Kansas City Chiefs{{!}}Dallas Texans. Eagles 24/7 (C) 18:57, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

@Eagles247: thanks; @Dirtlawyer1: that's exactly what I've done in other places.