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Editorkamran (talk) 03:18, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Contentious topics

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Information icon You have recently made edits related to India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. This is a standard message to inform you that India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan is a designated contentious topic. This message does not imply that there are any issues with your editing. Contentious topics are the successor to the former discretionary sanctions system, which you may be aware of. For more information about the contentious topics system, please see Wikipedia:Contentious topics. For a summary of difference between the former and new system, see WP:CTVSDS. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 17:31, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Creating articles on other Namdhari Gurus

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Hello @Bharatavarsh.1947, have you considered creating articles on the other Namdhari Gurus, such as Guru Hari Singh, Guru Partap Singh, and Guru Jagjit Singh? It would be a great improvement of Wikipedia's current coverage on the Namdharis and their leaders. I was reading your additions to Guru Ram Singh's article and believe you are the right person for this task. ThethPunjabi (talk) 23:22, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dear @ThethPunjabi Thanks a lot for appreciating and considering this. I have been reading about Indian Independence Movement a lot, specifically focusing on the recent scholarship on decolonial and post-colonial manifestations of the colonial past and its impact on the colonized people etc. My primary aim on Wikipedia was to highlight the contributions of mid-19th century Punjab towards freedom (post-1857 Sepoy Mutiny defeat). A number of sources have naively generalized the role of Sikhs as proponents of imperial Raj. They have either willfully or unintentionally missed the post-1857 part and stressed solely on the assistance provided to East India Company by Phulkian States to crush the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857. They then fast-forward to Jallianwala Bagh incidence as the cause of renewed awakening in Punjab, completely missing more than half a century of selfless struggle by Namdhari Sikhs, peasants, Ghadar movement and others. Even in 1857 Sepoy Mutiny, not all Sikhs had supported the imperial cause.
However, my introductions on Indian Independence Movement were resented by editors. They referred to the less space dedicated to the efforts of Namdhari Guru Ram Singh in contemporary literature. In the process, I found that some sources that I referred to were not WP: HISTRS, although some of the sources that other editors were using were completely biased and motivated by colonial cause. Plus, a number of references in the Indian Independence Movement page have not been mentioned even a single time in the standard texts, yet find a place there. But I moved forward with suggestion of one of the editors to move the details to Wiki: Namdhari pages.
You have suggested an excellent idea. We can create pages on other Namdhari Gurus as well. I request you to kindly help me with this. I can add more details with reliable references. I really appreciate your efforts in improving the Wiki in its right mission of being 'a sum total of verifiable human knowledge'. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 01:27, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Bharatavarsh.1947 I plan on creating an article on Bhai Maharaj Singh. He was a Sikh who rebelled against the British rule from 1849–1856. Not a lot of people know about him. A lot of information about early Sikh freedom fighters is indeed completely missing from the current standard narrative. I have to agree there is definitely a bias in-general against Sikhs on Wikipedia that I have personally experienced. I haven't look into detail of the issue you were experiencing. I did add a snippet discussing the role Namdharis played in the Indian independence movement a few months back but I haven't check to see the status of the article since then. ThethPunjabi (talk) 02:00, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@ThethPunjabi Yes, the snippet that you added was removed. But the information that I was intending to add was very brief and backed thoroughly with citations. Bhai Maharaj Singh and Bhai Bir Singh Naurangabadi definitely need a mention, as the understanding of the transitions period of Sikh empire and colonization is incomplete without it. In fact, Guru Ram Singh mentions both in his letter Hukamnamas. This is a connected past that has been overlooked and denied mention even in earlier Sikh sources, as they were under colonial influence at that time. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 03:02, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Bharatavarsh.1947 Why are users removing this information? What reason have they given? ThethPunjabi (talk) 03:43, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Bharatavarsh.1947 My addition hasn't been removed actually. I hope that brings you some solace. ThethPunjabi (talk) 03:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oh Okay. I thought that one 'Namdhari Sikhs' section was added and removed, and perhaps you had created it. I don't disagree with its removal as the sourcing was reported to be wrong. However, in my case, the discussion later shifter to WP: DUE consideration. Given the fact that when many others, clearly not within the ambit of WP: DUE, find a prominent space in the IIMR article, then the role of Guru Ram Singh shouldn't have been treated differentially.
But one gets to learn a lot from these discussions invariably. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 06:19, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Bharatavarsh.1947 - WP:DUE always came across as a very fickle and subjective rule to apply in my experience. ThethPunjabi (talk) 06:28, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and it’s annoying when it is applied differentially. Bharatavarsh.1947 (talk) 13:52, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]