User talk:Cubaking

Hello, Cubaking! Welcome to Wikipedia! We're so glad you're here! If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking

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Deo Volente

You're welcome! However, please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking

or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. — Mikhailov Kusserow (talk) 09:17, 29 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your additions to Category:Books about Cuba

Hello, saw you mentioned some books in Category:Books about Cuba. However, note that that page is a category, not an article. Categories don't include text about the subject, but simply automatically list articles that are labeled within that category. If you want to include (as a made-up example) the article Walking Around Cuba in October (book), you would go to the bottom of the page and type [[Category:Books about Cuba]], and that article would automatically pop up on Category:Books about Cuba. So text goes in articles, but categories just list articles themselves, rather than info. MatthewVanitas (talk) 10:39, 29 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Matthew, Thanks for the info.....It will not happen again ! Cheers! 11:10, 29 July 2010 (UTC)Cubaking (talk)

Adoption offer

Hey, Cubaking. I'd be happy to adopt you. If you're interested, just let me know here or on my talk page. Swarm^Talk 08:05, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, Cubaking. You have new messages at Otelemuyen's talk page.
Message added 18:17, 31 March 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Goodluck Otelemuyen (talk) 19:00, 02 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

January 2014

This is your only warning; if you use Wikipedia for soapboxing, promotion or advertising again, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Please stop adding your book (or your name) to pages. You are clearly here to promote your book, which is in any case self-published so should not be added to articles. Dougweller (talk) 13:37, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Response

Sir, Thank you for your concern. Indeed I have added my books (that you have now removed). First of all policing one author on my subject (Cuban Lucumi) and one alone is not balanced. Therefore, I respectfully question your motive and lack of balance. Secondly, I resent and dispute your statement " You are clearly here to promote your book," as I contribute to my religion that I am a senior practitioner of not only here, but all over the net. (Example)

Revision[edit]

Iboru Iboya, My immediate problem with this page is a lack of resources other than Chief S. Solagbade. I'm sure even S. Solabade would agree that there are many roads to knowledge and the absence of any other authors looks at best suspicious. Furthermore, there is no further reading to stimulate or acknowledge ANY other experts (or Babalawos for that matter). For those editors reading this do note the title of "Chief" (sic Yoruba) is often honorary among the Yoruba tribes :[1] I point this out simply for the unenlightened and mean no disrespect to S. Solabade. The text is OK and concise. Religion and even titles are often controversial and I like the fact it was seemingly written with this in mind. Certainly it could be expanded, yet each expansion MAY bring controversy. One difficulty in discussing this page is that the author is either from the African branch of Orisha/ Orisa worship and the majority of Orisha worshipers in the US belong to the Cuban system. Of course ANY author has to be from a particular branch, yet I'd humbly suggest to have the page a bit more balanced. About 45- 50% of the page is dedicated to the subject of Women in IFA and while this is an important issue, personally I do not think it warrants this much of the page. "Awo's" just pops up with little lead in that Baba means father and lawo means (sic/ of mysteries or secrets)....yet for the unenlightened seeing Awo is confusing... so that could be cleaned up. I'd like to see more on the Odu, something addressing the US, Cuba and Brazil, Lucumi and certainly more on IFA. Finally, the author gives a late opinion that William Bascom ( who was certainly AN expert) was THE FOREMOST....and that as we know should at the least be ONE OF THE FOREMOST.....Really, there are plenty of subtopics that are NOT controversial, Ikin for example, or they might talk about the Iro Ifa etc. The author uses the phrase "diving chain" (Opele) yet he or she does not tell the reader what that is, only what it is used for. Kola nuts though less common in the US are also used in Africa and this is not mentioned. We see a word "Ajogun" with no explanation." no one can not become a full Awo " (double negative AND I think he/she meant no one can become....The page worries me because it is VERY close to being non neutral. Awo Ogbe Sa Cubaking (talk) 08:56, 31 March 2011 (UTC) Cubaking (talk) 09:16, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Furthermore, I would be quite surprised if it is a policy with no exceptions that self published authors are not credible (sic). There are many who are for many valid reasons such as the lag with a traditional publisher, or control over things like translations.

Finally, I am a credentialed senior Baba Awo, and know of no other Lucumi authors who have reached my rank, and that makes me noteworthy. I do not like defending myself or tooting my own horn, however it seems I must, and thus I shall. However first, I understand you are an anthropologist, and if you look at the back cover of either of the two books I added (that have been on Wiki for several years) you will notice that my book was written with the help and blessings of the Museum of Anthropology in Havana and with the blessing of the Ministry of Culture. You can reference my page at Academia.edu or scribd, or several Facebook groups, or a multitude of other sites on the Net. Perhaps you are an expect on Lucumi, Ifa, Yoruba people and post under another pseudonym that I would recognize you by. Yet this is my field and I have earned my position as I share here for you to see. Minimally I am at least as qualified and most practitioners would agree I am more qualified than many of the authors Wiki (and you) are allowing to continue to taut their on works on the exact same pages as you deleted mine from. Should you or others like personal references either in Yorubaland from sitting Araba and Ogboni or leaders of Rama in Cuba, or Latin America, I would be delighted to share them with you or a bureaucrat or the appeal board. Finally, I hope we can clear this up and contribute together on this site. Cubaking (talk) 07:00, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My Lucumi Credentials (English and Spanish)

Residencias: Nogales, Sonora, Mexico / Centro Habana

Godfather/ Padrino & Oluwa Siwaju Larzaro Pijuan (ogunda oworin)

Rama Che che (Habana)

Ile IFA: La Casa Templo Ifalowo (100+ Awo)

Odu ogbe sa, ogunda di, odi ka

Cuchillo / Baba Awo October 3, 2007, otura sa

Hijo de Aggayu & Oshun

Trabajo : Journalist, writer, author / escritor

Libros: Nature's Ancient Religion: IFA & Orisha worship (ingles) ; Ifa y los Orishas: La Religion Antigua de la Naturaleza (espanol) 328 paginas

Articulos: muchas

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Orunmila

Groupos de Facebook: Lucumi info; Ibile Faith Society; Maria's Spiritual Awareness; Orisha -Space; Telegantolodu; Santeria; Odu access network; Ifa es para hombres; Exploratory Task Committee; ATR / YTR Bunco Squad.

Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=50448906&trk=tab_pro

:Blog:  http://bilingual.sulekha.com/default.htm

email: CubaKing@gmail.com

Sitio del web : http://www.amazon.com/Charles-Spencer-King/e/B002ELIWKI/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1

Aboru Aboye Greetings and my respect to all. Our religion is a positive and a beautiful celebration with Nature. Our religion is deeply rooted in education and service to The Irunmole/ Orisa, IFA, and Ancestors. I choose to recognize the contributions of not only the various noble traditions of greater Yorubaland, but each and all who were created and honored in diaspora. I recognize that there are differences (largely in mechanics), yet these differences that identify us are minuscule compared to the many similarities and values that we share. Concepts like: ori; ase; and iwa pele, IFA, odu, etc. These define us all over the world, as do the traditions that have centuries of rich history we should all respect and share. Unlike some, I do not seek to merge the storied histories of our traditions into one "super" religion. I support and defend each tradition in greater Yorubaland and diaspora, I respect their rights and obligations to their practitioners and to operate autonomously, based on their individual traditions. *

Saludos y mis respetos para todos. Nuestra religión es una relación positiva y una hermosa celebración con la naturaleza. Nuestra religión está profundamente arraigada en la educación y el servicio a la Irunmole / Orisa, IFA, y sus ancestros. Elijo para reconocer las contribuciones no sólo de las diversas tradiciones nobles de Yoruba mayor, pero cada uno ya todos los que fueron creados y honrado en la diáspora.Reconozco que hay diferencias (en gran medida en la mecánica), sin embargo, estas diferencias que nos identifican son minúsculos en comparación con las muchas similitudes y valores que compartimos. Conceptos como: Ori; ASE, Iwa pele , IFA, ODU, etc. Estos nos definen en todo el mundo, al igual que las tradiciones que tienen siglos de rica historia que debemos todo el respeto y compartir. A diferencia de muchos, que no buscan fusionar los historiales de pisos de nuestras tradiciones en un "súper" la religión. Que apoyaré y defenderé cada una tradición en la mayor Yoruba y de la diáspora, yo respeto a sus derechos y obligaciones a sus profesionales y para funcionar de forma autónoma, con base en sus tradiciones individuales.

My camino is to promote, defend, and assist each and every branch (tradition) that was born from greater Yorubaland, or in diaspora from greater Yorubaland concepts and ideals. I believe that through mutual respect, admiration, communication, interaction, education and fair and equal representation our world and our traditional based religions will flourish and improve. I strongly advocate the godparent - godchild relationship, respect for the elders, the cooperation of and working with in addition to respect for, the ocha - IFA relationship.

Mi camino es el de promover, defender y ayudar a todos y cada rama (la tradición) que nació de una mayor Yoruba, o en la diáspora Yoruba de mayores conceptos e ideales. Creo que a través del respeto mutuo, la admiración, la comunicación, la interacción, la educación y la representación justa y equitativa de nuestro mundo y nuestras religiones tradicionales basadas va a florecer y mejorar. Que defendemos con firmeza el padrino - ahijado relación, el respeto por los ancianos, la cooperación y el trabajo con, además de al respeto de la OCHA - relación de IFA.

My GENERAL ABSOLUTES

1) There is no such thing as mail order, telephone or internet credentials or ceremonies. To receive credentials of ceremonies, one must be face to face. Unlike other forms of divination IFA should be face to face * Exception: If and only if there has been a significant history of face to face divination a reading can be done via phone or internet or mail. Accepted Example: A godchild who is in Iraq asks their godparent in La Habana for a reading on an important matter.There MUST be a significant history of face to face divination.

2) There is no absolute for an error, be it in a ceremony or with one's credentials, each case is handled individually. There is no substitute for education, education is perpetual as we are all students with much to learn.

3) Respect is earned not given blindly,yet rank is important as is tenure and must be observed once credentials are verified. All elders obviously have tenure, yet earned rank is ultimately the last word. That being said, tenure is much more cherished, revered and respected than rank.

4) IFA needs Orisha (Irunmole) worship just as Orisha worship needs IFA, the two should walk hand in hand. Beware of those that seek to circumvent IFA, they have a personal agenda.

5) ONLY three or more qualified IFA priests can confirm with Orunmila who is our ruling Orisha and what is One's ruling Odu.

6) A minimum of 16 qualified IFA priests are required to confirm an IFA priest

7) There are no substitutes for sacrifices as one "college" suggests

8) Orisha worship and IFA do not see skin color,or gender, but they do see character (ori/iwa pele).

9) Orisha worship and IFA are not exclusionary religions or ways of life, unlike some forms of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity, they can and do sometimes compliment other forms of veneration.

10) Nature is a central theme of both IFA and Orisha worship and is to be cherished, respected and nurtured whenever possible. Never should you see any follower of our religion litter, pollute or disrespect any part of Nature.

11) Ashe (Ase) is a form of transferable positive energy that can be found in natural things be they alive or dead or inanimate such as a rock or non living seashell. Ashe is acquirable through knowledge and transferable with much more knowledge.

12) Man was made in the image of the Orishas (Irunmole), not visa versa.

13) Ire and Osogbo are of equal power, but what can always tip the balance for Ire is Ashe, because of this, light is ultimately stronger than darkness. There is no such thing as negative Ashe.

14) There are many excellent forms of divination, yet the most complete is IFA when used by a trained IFA priest or priestess,

15) Ikin are the preferred tool for divination

16) The diviner's skill is not only in how many Odu messages, Pataki, and Ebbo they know, but in matching the correct Odu to a question or situation, matching the correct ese (verse) and pataki (legend) to describe it and matching the correct Ebbo/ebo (cure) to find the answer or solution. *****************

Mis ABSOLUTOS GENERALES

1) No hay tal cosa como correo para las credenciales, por teléfono o Internet o ceremonias. Para recibir las credenciales de las ceremonias, hay que ser cara a cara.A diferencia de otras formas de adivinación Ifa debe ser cara a cara * Excepción: Si y sólo si ha habido una historia significativa de cara a cara la adivinación de una lectura que se puede hacer por teléfono o por Internet o por correo. Aceptado Ejemplo, un ahijado que está en Irak pide a su padrino en La Habana para una lectura en un matter.There importante tiene que ser una historia importante de cara a cara la adivinación.

2) No hay absoluta de un error, ya sea en una ceremonia o con las propias credenciales, cada caso se maneja de forma individual. No hay sustituto para la educación, la educación es permanente mientras que son todos los estudiantes con mucho que aprender.

3) El respeto se gana no se da a ciegas, sin embargo, el rango es importante como es la tenencia y debe ser observado una vez se verifiquen las credenciales. Todos los ancianos, obviamente, tiene la tenencia, el rango es en última instancia, sin embargo, ganó la última palabra. Dicho esto, la tenencia es mucho más apreciado, venerado y respetado que el rango.

4) IFA necesita Orisha (Irunmole) adoran al igual que el culto orisha necesita IFA, los dos deben caminar de la mano. Tenga cuidado con aquellos que tratan de eludir la IFA, que tienen una agenda personal,

5) Sólo tres o más Awo de Ifá calificados puede confirmar con Orunmila, que es nuestro Orisha gobernante y lo que es uno de Odu gobierna.

6) Un mínimo de 16 Awo de Ifá cualificados son necesarios para confirmar un sacerdote de Ifá

7) No hay sustitutos para los sacrificios como una "universidad", sugiere

8) el culto orisha y el IFA no se ve color de la piel o el género, pero sí ver el carácter (ori / iwa pele).

9) el culto orisha y el IFA no son las religiones excluyentes o modos de vida, a diferencia de algunas formas de islamismo, el judaísmo y el cristianismo, se puede y se complementan a veces, otras formas de veneración.

10) La naturaleza es un tema central tanto de IFA y de culto orisha y es para ser apreciado, respetado y cultivado siempre que sea posible. Nunca debe usted ve cualquier seguidor de la religión de nuestra camada, contaminar o falta de respeto hacia cualquier parte de la naturaleza.

11) Ashe (ASE) es una forma de transferir energía positiva que se puede encontrar en las cosas naturales ya sea vivo o muerto o inanimado, como una piedra o concha marina vida no. Ashe es adquiribles a través del conocimiento y transferibles con mucho más conocimiento.

12) El hombre fue hecho a imagen de los Orishas (Irunmole) y no viceversa.

13) Ire y Osogbo son de igual potencia, pero lo que siempre se puede inclinar la balanza para Irlanda es Ashe, debido a esto, en última instancia, la luz es más fuerte que la oscuridad. No hay tal cosa como Ashe negativo.

14) Hay muchas formas excelentes de adivinación, sin embargo, el más completo es el IFA cuando se usa por un sacerdote o sacerdotisa entrenada IFA,

15) Ikin son la herramienta preferida para la adivinación

16) La habilidad del contador del tiempo no es sólo en la cantidad de mensajes ODU, Pataki, y Ebbo que saben, pero en el que coincida con el Odu correcta a una pregunta o una situación, igualando la correcta ESE (verso) y Pataki (leyenda) para describir y juego la correcta Ebbo / ebo (cura) para encontrar la respuesta o solución.

Positions

1) Women in IFA: I am PRO Women in IFA and for the equality of women in general.

2) I do not participate nor lead any ceremony where rank is involved outside of my own Ile in Havana, unless I am assisting my Godfather, Lazaro Pijuan. I do not preform consultations with others outside of my ile in Havana, nor do I use IFA for divination for anyone outside of my ile in Havana. I do not preform Ebbo (ebo) for anyone outside of my ile in Havana other than myself for a fee. I receive no fee's for any advice or divination. Should someone wish me to introduce them or arrange for a trip to Havana for them to receive a service and wish my company , I accept the cost of all transportation and taxes, lodging and food FOB Nogales, Sonora, Mexico. Should I be speaking publicly or attending a conference, I accept the costs of my transportation and taxes, lodgings and food, and a prearranged per diem fee. I have no Godchildren, nor plan to have any, as my Odu is educating the masses, not individuals one at a time.

3) Gays and Lesbians in IFA : Due to the fact that my ile IFA in Havana prohibits Gays and Lesbians admission to our ile IFA, my personal feelings are irrelevant, as I obey the taboo's of our ile.

4) Ode Remo vs Awo Falokun : I am presently neutral on this situation, although I have and will continue to commentate and agree or disagree with comments made by either Ode Remo and its members or Awo Falokun and or his supporters. (Examples: My note on gossiping and my note on Cyberbullying are direct rebuttals to Awo Falokun's stated opinions.) Having said I am neutral does not change the fact that Ode Remo has ruled on this matter and Awo Falokun has accepted their ruling.

5) IFA College: I am anti many of the teachings and mechanics of Phillip Neimark and IFA Foundation. Mr. Neimark has largely moved from Cuban Lucumi to Traditional Yoruba practice that he has torn apart and remade in his own image. He has yet to produce his Tradicional Yoruba credentials and identify where the allegded ase is from, nor his credentials of who trained him and the extent of his training.

6) I am anti any form of unification or merging of the various traditions of IFA and or Orisha worship (ocha) into one Super religion.

7) I am anti any opinions that one tradition (including but not limited to traditional practices in greater Yorubaland) is stronger, or more powerful than any other, for me they are simply different, neither is my public opinion that my beloved Lucumi stronger or more powerful than any other tradition inside or outside greater Yorubaland.

8) I am neutral on those who consult using other forms of divination besides IFA through Skype, mail order, letters, wire, or telephone, whereas IFA is always done face to face unless (see lone exception under General Absolutes #1).

9) I believe we each have ori (divine spirit somewhat like soul) yet I do not believe a ceremony is necessary to access it. 10) I strongly advocate education and continuing education, all IFA priests are students for life

11) I believe in the Irunmole and/ or Orisha (orisa)

12) I believe in the Ancestors or Eggun/ egun. I believe that all mankind worships these the same, thus I am a DNA supporter of Haplogroups and MT dating. Those that insist I am not black enough to worship my Eggun the same as Yoruba....I am anti their opinion.

13) I believe the Ancestors include lineage ancestors, and these are a significant component of the Ancestors.

14) I believe in the concept of Ashe/ ase that it is collectible and can be transferable after it is acquired if one has the knowledge

15) I believe in The Dead ( Los muertos) and separate them from the Ancestors

16) I believe in Odu IFA and the 16 Laws of IFA. I believe in Odu determining destiny (camino), I believe in celebrating and respecting Nature, as well as balance. I believe in supporting and defending those religions and ways of life that have tolerance and respect for the beliefs of others outside their faiths, and those who respect the right of those inside their faiths to study and investigate other religions or ways of life. For example: I do not respect Islam because of its intolerance, yet respect Hinduism and the Tao (to name two of many examples) because of their tolerance.

Posiciones

1) Las mujeres en IFA: Yo soy la mujer de PRO en IFA y por la igualdad de las mujeres en general.

2) que no participan, ni llevar a cualquier acto en el rango está involucrado fuera de mi propia Isla en La Habana, a menos que esté ayudando a mi padrino, Lázaro Hernández Pijuan. Me no preforma consultas con otras personas fuera de mi ile en La Habana, ni puedo usar IFA para la adivinación para cualquier persona fuera de mi ile de La Habana. No me preforma Ebbo (EBO) para cualquier persona fuera de mi ile de que no sea yo Habana por una tarifa. Que no reciben la cuota para cualquier consejo o adivinación. Si alguien me quiere para introducirlos o los arreglos para un viaje a La Habana para que reciban un servicio y desea mi compañía, yo acepto el costo de todo el transporte y los impuestos, alojamiento y comida FOB Nogales, Sonora, México.¿Debería hablar en público o de asistir a una conferencia, yo acepto los costos de mi transporte e impuestos, alojamiento y comida, y una tarifa preestablecida por viáticos.No tengo ahijados, ni tiene ningún plan para, como mi Odu es educar a las masas, no uno los individuos a la vez.

3) Gays y Lesbianas en IFA: Debido al hecho de que mi ile IFA en La Habana prohíbe a gays y lesbianas de admisión a nuestra Isla IFA, mis sentimientos personales son irrelevantes, ya que obedecen al tabú es de nuestro ile.

4) Ode Remo vs Awo Falokun: Actualmente soy neutral en esta situación, a pesar de que tienen y seguirán teniendo para ser comentados y estoy de acuerdo o en desacuerdo con las observaciones formuladas por cualquiera de Ode Remo y sus miembros o Falokun y Awo o de sus partidarios. (Ejemplos: mi nota sobre chismes y mi nota sobre ciberacoso son réplicas directas a opiniones vertidas Awo Falokun de.) Sin embargo, ha sido establecido por Ode Remo Falokun que no tiene las credenciales para dar a los demás ceremonias que implican rango o ase. Por lo tanto lamentablemente, cualquiera que haya recibido de la ase. AseFalokun adquiridos sin ningún valor, y obtuvo rango con ninguna credibilidad.

5) Colegio IFA: Yo estoy en contra de muchas de las enseñanzas y la mecánica de Phillip Neimark y la Fundación IFA. Sr. Neimark en gran medida ha pasado de Cuba lucumí de la práctica tradicional Yoruba que se ha desgarrado y rehecha en su propia imagen. Él todavía tiene que producir sus credenciales Tradicional Yoruba y identificar donde el ase es de allegded,ni sus credenciales de quien lo entrenó

6) Yo estoy en contra de cualquier forma de unificación o fusión de las diversas tradiciones de IFA y Orisha o adoración (OCHA) en una religión Super.

7) Yo estoy en contra de cualquier opinión que una tradición (incluyendo pero no limitado a las prácticas tradicionales en la mayor Yoruba) es más fuerte, o más poderoso que cualquier otro, para mí son simplemente diferentes, no es mi opinión de que mi amada Lucumí más fuerte o más poderosa que cualquier otra tradición dentro o fuera de mayor Yoruba.

8) Yo soy neutral en los que consultan con otras formas de adivinación, además de IFA a través de Skype, por correspondencia, cartas, cables, o por teléfono, mientras que la IFA se hace siempre cara a cara, a menos (véase la única excepción en Absolutos general n ° 1).

9) Yo creo que cada uno tiene Ori (espíritu divino algo así como el alma), pero no creo que un acto es necesario para acceder a ella.

10) que un fervoroso partidario de la educación y la formación continua, todos los sacerdotes de Ifá son los estudiantes para la vida

11) Creo en el Irunmole y / u orisha (orisha)

12) Creo que en los ancestros o eggun / egun. Creo que todos estos cultos la humanidad de la misma, por lo tanto soy un defensor de los haplogrupos del ADN y datación MT. Aquellos que insisten en que no soy lo suficientemente negro para adorar a mi Eggun el mismo Yoruba .... Yo estoy en contra de su opinión.

13) Creo que los antepasados son los antepasados del linaje, y que no todos los antepasados de sangre pertenecen al grupo conocido como los antepasados.

14) Yo creo en el concepto de Ashe / asa que es de colección y pueden ser transferibles después de que se adquiere si se tiene el conocimiento

15) Creo en The Dead (Los Muertos) y separarlos de los Ancestros

16) Creo en Odu Ifa y las 16 Leyes de la IFA. Creo en el destino para determinar Odu (camino), creo que en la celebración y el respeto a la naturaleza, así como el equilibrio.Creo en apoyo y defensa de las religiones y formas de vida que tienen la tolerancia y el respeto a las creencias de los demás fuera de sus creencias, y los que respetar el derecho de las personas dentro de sus creencias para estudiar e investigar otras religiones o formas de vida. Por ejemplo: no respetar el Islam, debido a su intolerancia, sin embargo, respetar el hinduismo y el Tao (por nombrar dos de los muchos ejemplos), debido a su tolerancia Cubaking (talk) 07:00, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Virtually all of your edits add your book to an article. So, you seem to be only here to add your book. That's a conflict of interest for a start, see WP:COI and reason enough for my warning, let alone the fact that you haven't been able to get a publisher. See also WP:TLDR. If I left other self-published books behind (which I tried not to do) then remove them. Dougweller (talk) 08:52, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Response

" Virtually all of your edits add your book to an article." I gave you an example that you have ignored. " So, you seem to be only here to add your book." Why thank you for adding "seem" I suppose that is a positive step.

Once again you sling another insult that you have no idea of its voracity in " let alone the fact that you haven't been able to get a publisher." It is unfortunate you Sir continue with a combative tone and hyperbole. Perhaps I am

wrong, but I thought you were here to help, advise users like me who ARE recognized experts in their fields. I addressed the self publishing issue in my first response, however to continue, you Sir, have absolutely zero information to support your assertion that " let alone the fact that you haven't been able to get a publisher. Therefore it is NOT a "fact", it is a supposition on your part, that happens to be incorrect, and abusive. I submit that you have overstepped your authority, in making sweeping statements, regarding me and my credentials. I expected more from someone who has risen the ranks through hard work, many hours, and valuable contributions. I do not know you, and I am puzzled why you have an agenda that includes me. Otherwise you would not be accusatory, you would be offering to help. Did I rub some friend of yours the wrong way? I am really puzzled why we can not have a discussion without you accusing me or attempting to belittle me, because I am a fairly easy fellow to get along with. My contributions to Lucumi, Ifa and Yoruba are well documented and extensive, as I said I am delighted to provide personal references from the top ranking individuals (Arabas and Ogboni) in Nigeria, Cuba or the US. If your goal is to drive recognized experts in their fields away from Wiki, with insults, innuendo, and spin you are succeeding. Disappointed I remain, Cubaking (talk) 14:36, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I take your point, but if you'd been around here as long as I have you might get impatient too with editors adding their own books - whether or not self-published, their own websites, etc. But your posts really are too long to read carefully. Note that I have what's called a watchlist and I patrol thousands of pages for vandalism, biassed editing, etc let alone trying to actually improve and reference articles. Sometimes I slip. Dougweller (talk) 19:14, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Recognised expert?

If you think that you qualify as a recognised expert in this field and are an exception to our WP:SPS policy, you can ask others if they agree at our Reliable sources noticeboard. WP:RSN. If you get consensus there that you are, then you can go to article talk pages and ask that your book be included. What you can't do is add it to all the relevant articles yourself. Dougweller (talk) 15:29, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Response

Thank you Mr. Weller, THAT is the advice I need. Have a nice evening ! Cubaking (talk) 16:05, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sage Advice

An outline for a Wikicovenant from Kingturtle:

Make others feel welcome (even longtime participants; even those you dislike)

Create and continue a friendly environment

Turn the other cheek (which includes walking away from potential edit wars)

Give praise, especially to those you don't know (most people like to know they are wanted and appreciated)

Forgive

Maybe it's because I spent more time on Kingturtle's page, perhaps I just like being a King and hanging out with kings (King is my surname). One evening I was at a ball with Prince Charles in Chicago for the WWF, I was coaxing my significant other to dance with the prince. She finally turned to me, put her finger to my lips and said" Why would I want to dance with a prince, when I am dancing with a king." Quite a gal! It could be because I like turtles as chocolates and testudines as reptiles. In any case I am impressed with Kingturtle and those contributions I've seen....so far, and why I awarded the Barnstar. Cubaking (talk) 17:56, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Balance

I don't disagree with you about the balance issue (a quick look at one did indeed show a lack of balance of sources). If you can balance any of these using sources that meet our criteria at WP:RS that would be great. You should read WP:VERIFY and WP:NOR first as sometimes it's harder for an expert to edit here than simply someone who is a good researcher and writer, as experts can take things for granted that others don't. Dougweller (talk) 19:11, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

 == Response ==

Mr. Weller, I am not much of an editor, as I find it tedious to be honest. Furthermore, my English is not very compatible with Wiki or a Chicago Style, I think footnotes often detract from a piece. My style is more fireside chat, and that is a poor fit here. These weaknesses are why I am a user as opposed to an aspiring editor, sure I write by the pound rather than the page, but I suffer "editing" plenty for my own works. What I can do, and (frankly see my role here as)is to work with some senior editors and improve the content, particularly within the scope of my expertise. The problem I have noticed is fragmentation, too many queens and not enough drones. I run into this situation too on other sites, take Ifa or a particular Orisha for example. Not only is there multiple spellings (and languages), but Orishas, and mechanics are different in (greater)Yorubaland than in Cuba or Brazil. Take Oya the Orisha of wind, she is a river in Yorubaland. My religion is 1.75 ,million strong (if we take all traditions or branches (as we should), yet the Catholics will scream and drown me out if I speak this truth. The title of Santeria (as you see from the talk section is contested, and it should be because it is flat out wrong). Santeria is the combo of Catholicism and West African traditional religion (including Yoruba and Fon speaking peoples). Lucumi is a better catch all title, therefore the two should be separate, not together, because all Santeria is Lucumi, but all Lucumi is not Santeria.

The fragmentation also exploits the differences between Yorubaland and The Diaspora based traditions. We'll always have the "my way or the highway" types who insist on The Diaspora, knuckling or Kow towing, in submission, and we in Diaspora will fight tooth and nail against that, as many feel our lineage is purer due to Colonialism and the influence of not only Christianity, but Islam in Yorubaland. Regarding Wiki, the religion comes under religion, Caribbean, Cuba, Yoruba, etc, thus too many queens. For me to get into more battles, is unwise. I am seen by some as a Cuba expert, having logged over 45,000 hours on the island, I have a bilingual screenplay called Fidel Viene / Fidel Is Coming and it is seen by many as pro Castro (anti embargo and travel restrictions). We are the land of the free (except to travel independently to Cuba) ad the home of those brave enough to go anyway. With Cuba there are three distinct opinions: A) The Miami right wing ardent anti Castro, pro embargo, pro travel restrictions for US citizens, we (J Q Public) has been spoon fed for over 50 years; B ) The Cuban opinion. These are as opposite as 9:00 and 3:00; C ) One would imagine the international opinion would be 12:00, yet in fact it is more between 10:00 and 11:00. Therefore, I have plenty of resistance from the passionate Cuban American right wing old guard for a lifetime. Combine this with exposing (but not judging) fraud, abuse, gouging in the religion and I have a full cup of enemies. For me to reach out for more? No thanks..:-)) Same denial on providing balance for you and Wiki, I do not need more enemies, so no thanks. However, IF you can find a few brave men or women with strong character (iwa pele in Yoruba) to edit, I am happy to rework the whole shebang or selected pages. I just refuse to be involved in editing wars and chest puffing.. been there, done that. Cubaking (talk) 22:00, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Respose

Well I figured out the paragraphs and cleaned this up (a bit). In doing so I noticed a comment, I had missed, and I thank you for it Mr. Weller. I DO appreciate the work you do here, and thank you for pointing out the collective of authors, that I am a

part of. I skimmed the two references, and though I understand, I always like to push the envelope for exceptions, at least personally. Regarding me: The option is expiring soon (this year) on my independence. With the segue to film, I require an agent and traditional publisher, thus soon it will be a moot point. Regarding me putting me up for authentication , that too seems to be self serving...:-) If you or anyone asks the Wiki recognized experts in my fields, I am a well known commodity within the hierarchy of Lucumi and even Yoruba cultures. To be fair and direct not all love me, yet known, I am. Frankly, I am still willing to help as I said, yet the more I see of Wiki, the more I see it is highy subjective, albeit a relevant marketing tool for some. I may seem like I am an eager beaver, but the reality is I am not. Take Facebook groups for example or other Net forums, I do not tout my books there like many hawk their wares, it just seems unsightly to me. Here, as I said I was guilty of adding my works, yet I also contributed to TALK discussions. My books are important and unique, like Wiki they target those outside or new to our religion. The difference is I shy from calling myself an expert in them, experts draw fire, eternal students do not..:-) I also write from the inside and as I mentioned my rank and credentials within Lucumi are unique (for an author). I don't think you'll learn to love me or we'll even see eye to eye. Like me you are a mucky muck rank wise, and I am but a user. I thought long and hard before I disagreed with you publicly, as it almost always is a losing battle to argue with an elder. I am sorry I was touchy about your assault on my credentials. I am trying to show you by my offer to help and the time I am spending here on this issue, that I am a contributor, not a glutton. Now that my books are off Wiki, a sane man would bolt, yet I am not running. I see in the long run, that you and others will find my contributions significant, and maybe even return my books to their rightful company of other authors. Three of the authors are in hot water with their credentials in the religion and have been sanctioned by the ogboni (ruling religious body in Yorubaland). Few authors, published traditionally or not are without controversy...here is but a recent example:

Elliott Rivera posted to ‎Charles Spencer King

January 27 Greetings and salutations I would like to thank your accepting me on your friends list. Recently I was sent your thread on "Three Authors: Ayo Salami; Awo Falokun Fatunmbi (David Wilson); Philip Neimark and Why they are in Hot Water" I found it very interesting and also helpful. How helpful well for years I had suspected Fatunmbi not to be all he says, only because I listen to my Eguns. I have heard stories over the years and you have confirmed them.

As a priest of Yemaya (25 years) my duty is to uphold our religion and tradition of OCHA. One of my task in life is to lift the religion to a higher level. I do this by teaching, informative workshops and lectures. Since I have been living in Holland (Amsterdam) people have crossed my path who have been duped by unscrupulous priest and priestess of our tradition. I find it my responsibility to help these people get things "straightened out". It pains me to see them suffer and pay so much money for nothing or close to nothing. I understand that nothing come for free, I know I paid a mini fortune 25 years ago. I know I can not give it away, but I give from my heart.

Thank you for your post and I will be following your FB on a regular bases.

Charles Spencer King Hi Elliott, Thanks, if you are Lucumi ( and I presume you are unless you are using the Lucumi spelling for my benefit) you might browse the Info Lucumi page too. For me it always comes down to: Ashe (where it came from and the quality of the lineage; education length and quality of those teaching; and permissions, that the leader and or elders and godparent give. You might enjoy the Olofin and Woman posts (they're at the top of the note section here on my page). You also might enjoy my Nature's Ancient Religion book, Amazon has a new distribution system for Europe, making it more affordable, or if you have Kindle its on there too (free lending also). Its not as readily available in the public libraries as it is here in the US, not yet anyway.. Its also in espanol.....ashe o and thanks for the kudo!

My thing Mr Weller is I try to be available to my readers, I educate globally, not one at a time like most practitioners. Our religion is usually seen as complex, but it is not, it is just the presenters who make it complex. I have the gift of making it easy to understand, perhaps I over simplify, but I explain I am oversimplifying it. Whomever is the arbitration "expert" for Lucumi, (or Yoruba) will eventually read me on Academia or some other place on the Net and agree I am relevant, so I am not overly concerned you deleted all my books. Maybe even you will come around....:-) Sorry again we got off on the wrong foot, and if I can help, just ask. Cubaking (talk) 05:03, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]