User talk:Doctor Wikipedian

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Hello, Doctor Wikipedian! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking

or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Wikipedia you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Happy editing! Aleta ^Sing 19:07, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Username

The fact that the word "doctor" is in your username does not have to mean that you are a medical doctor. Even if a checkuser confirms your IP address goes to a medical establishment, that does not constitute proof that you are an M.D. You could be a nurse, a techie, an administrator, or a secretary, among other possibilities. You stated that it was too late to change the username. Actually it's not. If you would like to change your username, you can request it at WP:RENAME. (I'm not suggesting you should; there's nothing wrong with the one you have.) Aleta ^Sing 20:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I still want private verification that I am medically related. Sorry if I must insist, but I do not people to think that I am not who I say I am. Doctor Wikipedian (talk) 20:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I said though, even if your IP can be shown to be located at the Mayo Clinic (to name one possible example), you could be a janitor there. It proves absolutely nothing about your qualifications. Also, Wikipedia, for better or for worse, does not rely upon people's expert qualifications. Even if you can prove your qualifications, you would not be given a higher status to edit medical articles than I have (and I'm not in the medical field). Aleta ^Sing 21:00, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Authorship

Further to our correspondence, the essential point, which it is necessary to appreciate, is tha wikipedia DOES NOT CARE who writes articles, and creating an article carries no assertion of competence in the field in question. All data must be subject to reference, original research data are prohibited, and personal expertise, while it will clearly help in article creation, is not recognised as an automatic authority. In short, it is not acceptable to say, or imply, "I am trained in this field and therefore know what I am talking about". This is in no way meant to denigrate your skills and qualifications; I am just saying that they are not relevant in a wikipedia context. --Anthony.bradbury^"talk" 10:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I notice that you failed to believe me, or perhaps to understand. There is no problem with your assertion of a medical qualification; it simply does not matter in wikipedia. Please feel free to write articles on medical or on any other matters. That is what wikipedia is all about. But you must be aware that other editors will feel perfectly free to change, amend or add to the articles you write. Only the text is important, not the author. Over the past two years I have witten about a hundred original articles; none are now in the form in which I left them. Be prepared to accept that you do not, ever, own your articles. But please do carry on creating them. And feel free to amend medical articles written by other editors. This is how we improve the encyclopedia. --Anthony.bradbury^"talk" 20:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally, I notice that Thatcher declined the checkuser request. He explains why on his talk page. Aleta ^Sing 21:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He ran a checkuser, he did not decline it. He confirmed that I am not editing from a prison or a pharmaceutical company. I do not want people to think that I am a convict or from the marketing division of a pharmaceutical company trying to promote a new medicine. This form of checkuser is sufficient for me that I am almost ready to edit. I didn't want to edit beforehand because I wanted it to be clear who I am and who I am not. Doctor Wikipedian (talk) 16:28, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Doc - welcome to Wikipedia. I recommend you be bold and just jump in. As has been pointed out, all contributions that meet Wikipedia guidelines are welcome (and encouraged). Nobody relies on any edit based on the qualifications of the editor themselves. Welcome to the project and have fun! Frank | talk 17:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"I'm going to decline your request," was said by Thatcher on his talk page. What follows is an explanation of why he declined. Dr.W., what you are requesting is simply not necessary; nor is anyone likely to do it. Aleta ^Sing 18:14, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Many seem concerned that I will say "I'm a doctor so my word is final". This is not the case. I just want some sort of verification so nobody will think that I am a drug company pushing a medicine or a convict trying to do something criminal. The fact that User:Dr Spam (MD) is not on his or her best behavior and they are probably not a doctor is very disturbing. That's why I don't want anyone to have any doubt about me. Thatcher has already spilled the beans that I am a doctor writing from my office but it was too indirect for my liking. Doctor Wikipedian (talk) 18:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thatcher did not do anything remotely like what you are inferring. In fact, Thatcher explicitly and directly declined your request, and used the word "decline," which does not have any ambiguity to it. Furthermore, as I understand policy, although I am not a checkuser-enabled editor, there isn't a single one who would honor this request. It simply isn't necessary, there is no precedent, and it runs counter to Wikipedia's policies for editing. Whether or not a user is a doctor is beside the point. Frank | talk 19:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dr. Spam (MD)

I don't believe the username to be problematic in itself, but I've inquired about the matter at the Administrator's Noticeboard for Incidents, here, on your behalf. Further discussion may take place there. As for your username, it appears that you have discussed the matter at length with administrators more experienced than myself, so I'm not sure I have any additional advice for you. All edits, including yours and mine, are required to be neutral, verifiable, and backed by Reliable Sources; if you edit in this fashion, then your edits will not be questioned. You can't post information about a medical procedure, for example, and cite "I know this to be true because I am a doctor", as that would be removed rapidly. But, if you cite something like the JAMA, then you would be fine. In short, I don't think you'll have any problems at all. Please feel free to leave me a message if you have any further questions. Welcome to Wikipedia, UltraExactZZ ^Claims~ Evidence 17:07, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Verification of credentials

I notice that you have been trying to get your credentials verified before you begin editing. I will put this as simply as I can... This will not happen. There is no use arguing about, we cannot and do not verify credentials on this site for a variety of reasons. Contributers are judged by their contributions not by their backgrounds, if you make good edits you have nothing to worry about. If you cannot edit without verification than you cannot edit, it is as simple as that. Let me know if you need any help with any other topics. --Daniel J. Leivick (talk) 19:13, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are you an official representative of Wikipedia and speak for the Wikipedia Foundation? It is ok, if you speak for yourself as this gives me a gauge on the feelings of a Wikipedian.

I also ask you if it is not an offense to impersonate a doctor? Ethically it may be but if it is not a Wikipedia offense, please let me know. Some acts are illegal in certain places but not in others. For example, making critical comments about the King of Thailand can result in punishment but such comments are not illegal in the UK. So if impersonating a doctor is ethically wrong and illegal in certain places but that there is no Wikipedia rule against it, please let me know, Daniel. Doctor Wikipedian (talk) 21:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No one on wikipedia is practicing medicine. No license needed. joshschr (Talk | contribs) 21:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is not practicing medicine. It is whether impersonating a doctor (even if every considers it bad) is not among the list of offenses prohibited by Wikipedia and therefore, is not prohibited. (Even if not prohibited, it doesn't make me dislike Wikipedia, I just want to know). Doctor Wikipedian (talk) 22:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is the Internet. You and I can pretend to be whomever and whatever we want to be. There is no prohibition against putting the word "doctor" or abbreviation "dr" in a Wikipedia username at this time. Doing so does not always imply one is a medical doctor anyway. (Think about Dr. J and Dr. Demento, for example.) The threshold is simply verifiability. As you keep stating all over the place, you could be a prisoner or a drug company rep instead of a doctor. We have no way of knowing which is the case, and nobody asks. It's all good - your contributions would still be accepted even if you are a prisoner - as long as they are backed up by citations from reliable sources and follow other guidelines. Frank | talk 22:15, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Further comment: I hope you read this user page (all the way through) for an excellent, succinct discussion of qualifications and verifiability. Frank | talk 01:53, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I understand you're just editing to get attention at this point. I just wanted to point that one thing out. You've been told multiple times that being a doctor makes no more difference than being a licensed engineer or lawyer on WP. Have fun bending ears on talk pages instead of doing anything useful. joshschr (Talk | contribs) 22:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your conclusion is completely wrong. I just want to understand the situation completely before spending hours on writing articles. Better to know the situation now rather than later. Even you misunderstand the issue. The issue is not "being a doctor makes no more difference than being a licensed engineer". The issue is personal integrity and whether it matters in WP at all. If it is just "impersonating a doctor is ok as long as your edits are ok" then I can live with that but want to know. Doctor Wikipedian (talk) 22:13, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Impersonating a doctor is ok as long as edit properly. No body cares about credentials here. Though it does help having people who are trained in certain subjects. It does not make you immune or above others. Users can call themselves whatever they please (as long as it follows WP:Username. Also I see no reason why you should be complaining that user has not even claimed to be a doctor or at least I haven't seen it (I have not checked the history). So please just carry on and edit like every other user here. If you do bad we will tell you off. If you do good we will reward you justly. Rgoodermote 22:34, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My statement is not as clear as I meant it to be: being a doctor editing medical articles makes no more difference than being a licensed engineer editing engineering articles or lawyer editing legal articles on WP.

Honestly, I'm not trying to bite, but I have a hard time assuming good faith when your only contribs on your first day are

1) Trying to elicit from an admin an unenforceable statement that either you might be a doctor, or that it doesn't matter on WP. If you're a doctor, post a copy of your diploma and training on your user page.

2) Your only contrib that doesn't have to do with you maybe being a doctor or it maybe not mattering was suggesting that Fram needs to change his/her name because it is also the brand name of an oil filter,

3) Somehow equating the title dr in a username with actually claiming that one is a PhD or MD. Your claims that this is a personal integrity issue are far-fetched and actually pretty insulting and finally

4) If you were as concerned about this issue as you claim, you'd be asking more users with Doctor in their username what they think.

I will muster my last bit of good faith, assume you're not having a giggle at your hospital computer through all this, and implore you to dip your toes in and edit an actual article in which you have a personal or professional interest. You will very quickly find out that while a username does have to follow some basic rules, in its own way, it can be very separate from the user. In other words, you don't need dr. in your name to fraudulently claim to be one, and not all dr's use the title in their username. Or if you prefer, I have a master's degree, but I don't ask people to call me Master joshschr. Put a different way, A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, etc and so on.

Your userpage is now longer than mine. joshschr (Talk | contribs) 23:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

enrolled

You are enrolled in my research study. I am not certain whether to put you in the real name or fake name. I am inclined to put you in the fake name category although you seem like you will act like people in the real name category based on your concern about verifying IP. Good luck.JerryVanF (talk) 01:32, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not acceptable

This is not acceptable. You can not insert yourself into another checkuser case. Do not do so again. It has been explained to you now by numerous editors including at least two checkusers (Thatcher and Alison), at least three other administrators (Anthony.bradbury, User:Daniel J. Leivick, and myself), as well as Joshschr and Frank, that Wikipedia does not try to verify anyone's credentials. That is at least seven editors who have all told you basically the same thing. What matters here is not your credentials, but what edits you make including the sources you use. Please cease this campaign across numerous talk pages, and just work on the encyclopedia. Aleta ^Sing 02:33, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also, to answer one of your questions quite specifically; no, it is not an offence on wikipedia to impersonate a doctor. You are not practising medicine here. We really, really, honestly do not care who you are, and we absolutely could not care less what qualifications you hold. We care only about your edits, which you are free to make or not at your discretion. --Anthony.bradbury^"talk" 12:28, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]