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Fixture anomalies

I think the reason why the regular MCG tenants (Collingwood, Hawthorn, Melbourne and Richmond) must play at Etihad at least once a season is to get them exposed to playing under a closed roof (though there's no guarantee that the roof will be closed; there was only one open roof match in 2015 (Essendon vs Brisbane Lions in Round 8)). I might be wrong, but that's what I think. There are also matches that have the potential to draw low crowds as well (such as Richmond vs Adelaide in Round 3 and Collingwood vs Gold Coast in Round 22).

Essendon uses Etihad as their primary home ground but usually they would draw the low-drawing clubs (such as the interstate clubs, North Melbourne, St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs) at the ground, but they have also played Hawthorn at Etihad in recent years (and will again in 2016), whereas they play the more traditional rivals (Carlton, Collingwood, Melbourne and Richmond) at the MCG.

As you know, Melbourne and GWS finished as the two worst-performed teams in 2013, and thus this had ramifications for the 2014 fixture. Melbourne copped a tough fixture commercially as is well documented, but were otherwise spared a trip down to Geelong in 2014 (they hosted the Cats at the MCG for the first time since 2009, in Round 17). Whereas, GWS copped a very tough road schedule with two trips each to Perth and Queensland, as well as one to Adelaide (and had a six-day break between road trips to Adelaide and the Gold Coast), and apart from cross-town rivals Sydney, had just two home games against interstate clubs (the two South Australian clubs; Adelaide at Spotless and Port Adelaide in Canberra). I am of the opinion that GWS copped the tough draw they got because of their one-win season in 2013, which would have hindered their attempt to avoid a third straight wooden spoon (which they did, eventually finishing 16th in 2014). By contrast, Melbourne got a lighter travel schedule, but the two games in the Northern Territory might have compensated for that.

This year, Melbourne will play on the Gold Coast and at the SCG for the first time since 2013 and 2012 respectively, but again there's no game at the Gabba.

And in 2015, three teams (Geelong, Hawthorn and Melbourne) didn't play a premiership match in Queensland between them. It was Melbourne's second straight year without a game in Queensland, whereas for Hawthorn it was the fifth season in seven years in which they didn't have a game in the Sunshine State. I think in the future the fixture should be reformed so that each team should get equal exposure in each state (a rule already exists in which every team MUST play in Perth at least once) so that fans don't miss out. As another example, Carlton misses out on a game in Adelaide for the second straight year. Those anomalies just appear every now and then and every fixture just cannot be perfected to satisfy fans around Australia I guess. MasterMind5991 (talk) 00:58, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

@MasterMind5991: I reckon the Etihad reason is more likely to allow a relatively even amount of games between the MCG and Etihad and it's more the other way so Etihad/MCG tenants have more access to the MCG (i.e. Carlton and Essendon), as finals will always favour playing at the MCG than Etihad, it's probably just done to be fair, as it would be unfair if 2/4 of the MCG tenants have to play a home-game at Etihad to allow for two extra matches at the MCG for non-MCG tenants, so they just do all four so there are four extra home-games at the MCG for the MCG/Etihad tenants. Flickerd (talk) 00:15, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Player list

Hey. Just wanted to get your opinion on this. There's a few changes there I'm trying out just to see how it goes and what you think, they're by no means set in stone. First was stripping away the top-level heading as largely unnecessary. Then combining the debut into one column and making it sortable (also making the player names properly sortable). Also I made the seasons unsortable as it didn't really make sense to be able to sort it. Probably the biggest change is making each line have a ref. I've ref'd them to The Encyclopedia of AFL Footballers because AFL Tables is only a borderline reliable source at best. It has added 4500 bytes back to the page (not sure how much of that is due to the sortable templates though), so I'm a bit unsure about it. What do you think? Looking at some player lists at WP:FL, some do seem to have each individual line/player having a source and some seem to have got by with just general refs listed at the bottom. Jenks24 (talk) 13:53, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

@Jenks24: Hey, thanks very much for doing that, I was actually planning on eventually sorting the names properly and merging the debut columns and sorting them, but knew it would be time consuming, so I kept putting it off haha, but I think it's best to do it for the rest of the page. As for the sources, even though it will add back a lot of bytes, I do think it's important to have reliable sources. Even if the page uses the template at Template:Ref AFL Encyc, I do like having as detailed a ref as possible, so I think using that template is a good way to go and it won't (from strictly a bytes point of view) take up as much space, and a per line ref can be implemented. Thanks, Flickerd (talk) 14:13, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm glad you like it, I'd seen the recent work you'd been doing there and it motivated me to finally get around to it. On not using the Ref AFL Encyc template, my theory was to use shortened footnotes so that every cite doesn't use the full citation because once all 1321 players have one that will make the page significantly longer. We could even use something like {{sfn}} so that every cite then links to the full citation in the general references section. I just tested sfn and it does actually use more bytes so that's not great. It was interesting to see your test made the page one byte bigger. Thoughts? Jenks24 (talk) 14:34, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
@Jenks24: I would still prefer to use the Ref AFL Encyc template as opposed to the shortened citation as I think it's important to have a full citation (it probably stems from my uni days), I think the reference section will be long regardless, and there are internal links (i.e. if you click on the number it will send you straight to the reference), so I don't think having the full citation will deter or overwhelm people based on its length. I wasn't sure how many bytes it would add/remove using the template, and considering it's only one extra, I don't think it hurts to have it. I don't know if it's worth it, but is there anyway to make the reference section collapsible just to avoid the length issue, I don't know if I particularly want that, but maybe it's worth looking into? Flickerd (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
You might have seen I've been fiddling around with it a bit. I think our two options for the refs are here where they all use the Ref AFL Encyc template and here using the sfn template. I actually got it to work properly this time and it's 12 bytes smaller than the full AFL Encyc template. I prefer the sfn template to be honest, it avoids duplicating so much information but if anyone wants to see the full citation it gives them any easy link. Try it out and see what you think. I was looking to see what recent FLs have done with their referencing. Looking at this week's featured content, there was apparently no FLs – two of the three FAs used sfn though. Going back another week, there were six FLs – half used sfn, so I guess it's just a matter of taste. On making the reference section collapsible, I tried this which seems to work fairly well at least on my monitor. Jenks24 (talk) 04:09, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
@Jenks24: Yeah I had a bit of a look while you were doing it, and I agree that the sfn looks better, it was just too much information using the full template when it can easily be a full ref once in the general section, and it's smaller using the sfn too. I reckon just go ahead using sfn. The scroll looks good too, it's just a bit small on my monitor, so I reckon just increase the height a bit, 20em should do, I'll just do a quick edit now. Flickerd (talk) 04:23, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Great, looks like we have a format to be going on with. Feel free to adjust the height as much as you want, looking at it now you're right than 10em was definitely too small. I should be able to start converting the 1900s over today, unless you want to do it (it's mind-numbing stuff haha). Jenks24 (talk) 04:33, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
@Jenks24: Haha, I'll let you take the lead, I'm currently at work and I do tend to stick to the smaller and less time-consuming stuff whilst here, but I can help out a bit over the next few days in the evening if you need some help. Flickerd (talk) 04:38, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Moving categories

Not an issue, but if you want to save yourself the work of editing the page of every article in the category after a move, you can nominate categories for speedy renaming at WP:CFDS. If no one objects there in 48 hours (and they rarely do for renames to match the parent article), a bot will take care of the move and updating all the articles. Jenks24 (talk) 16:13, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

@Jenks24: Thanks for letting me know. The recent ones haven't been too bad to move because there have only been around 10-20 pages per category but it's good to know for categories with more pages in it. Thanks :) Flickerd (talk) 05:17, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited 2016 Melbourne Football Club season, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Aaron Young. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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 Fixed, Flickerd (talk) 09:13, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Melbourne Football Club logo 2015.png

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AFL club templates

Hey, Flickerd. In regards to [1], [2], [3], [4] and [5], could you please point me to this Australian rules football style guide so that I can see what it consists of? I changed the titles within these templates to reflect the proper team names given on the AFL website and Channel Seven, if you would prefer for me to give my reasoning. The style that they have been reverted to would be like changing Brisbane Lions to "Brisbane", for instance. I would also appreciate some sort of notification next time this happens, that way things can be discussed and a resolution can be reached sooner. Thanks. 4TheWynne(talk)(contribs) 12:53, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi, sorry about the delay in replying, I've been on holidays and haven't been on Wikipedia since your message. The specific style guide is here. I completely understand the reason for your edit, however, due to the nature of the template, the transclusion is treated as a title, and as such the use of nicknames should be avoided. In addition, there has been a very long consensus at WP:AFL to avoid using nicknames (I think since around 2008). In terms of the Brisbane one, at first thought I agreed with you and thought the short name (as outlined in the style guide) should be just "Brisbane", however, I think the reason it is "Brisbane Lions" is because of the Brisbane Bears, and although to you and me there would be no confusion between the two, I can see how there could be some confusion with having just Brisbane, and my philosophy on Wikipedia is that anything that can lead to slight confusion should be avoided. Thanks, Flickerd (talk) 11:04, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Ok. Brisbane Bears. It is. I would love to meet you Ronnie. Never seen you for ages. I'm on facebook. Under Eva Kickett. Have a look. Ekickett74 (talk) 03:57, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Darwin meet-up and public workshops

Hi,

Two public workshops will be hosted at the Northern Territory Library which will be held on 22 June 2016, 5.15pm and 26 June 2016, 2pm. There is also a meetup which will be held at 6pm on 25 June 2016. Bidgee (talk) 12:52, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

AFL Tables template update

Thanks a lot for doing the update, but can you please mark your edits as minor, and are you actually checking that the links are correct as you go, or just changing the template ? I haven't seen any errors, but at times it might use a long or shortened version of a name, or the 0/1/2.html modifier for multiple people with the same name. Cheers, The-Pope (talk) 04:16, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

@The-Pope: No problem, and yep I've been checking them and they're all good, thanks. Flickerd (talk) 04:21, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The AFL barnstar
Thanks for your great work on articles and templates to do with the AFL. - Yellow Dingo (talk) 02:42, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
@Yellow Dingo: thanks, I appreciate it :) Flickerd (talk) 05:20, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

FYI on "grand final"

Contrary to what you've claimed, the term "grand final" used by itself is always generic and it shouldn't be capitalised. It should only be capitalised when it is part of an actual "offical" or proper name, such as "AFL Grand Final" or "2016 AFL Grand Final". The fact that "grand final" by itself is often capitalised in articles doesn't somehow make it grammatically acceptable as a proper name. Afterwriting (talk) 13:39, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited 2015 AFL draft, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Charlie Dixon. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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 Fixed. Flickerd (talk) 09:45, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

2016 AFL Draft

I've read up on Wiki's policy re:recentism and considering the Drafts page is going to undergo a stack of changes between now and the end of the year I think it falls under acceptable standards to have the time information there at least until the drafts and movement periods are over. For what it's worth, none of the content was copy-paste either. In any case, I am new to this and still learning so it's very interesting going over your code and reading the article you linked. I've seen your work across a number of pages and am impressed just how much content you've added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tigerman2612 (talk • contribs) 12:11, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

@Tigerman2612: Thanks for that. I'm still learning things on here, so it's all good. In regards to times, it's a bit tricky because we should be editing Wikipedia from a long-term point of view, I fully understand the point you're making about the times, but the exact times also falls a bit into WP:NOTNEWS, people shouldn't use Wikipedia as their news source, and rather look at AFL/Herald Sun/The Age etc. articles (such as the key dates one) for times. I know there's different interpretations of the guidelines on here, but considering none of the other draft articles have times, I would still leave it out. Thanks, Flickerd (talk) 12:24, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited 2014 AFL draft, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Gold Coast. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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 Fixed. Flickerd (talk) 03:37, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

User pages

Just an fyi: wp:user pages, specifically WP:BLANKING allow one to remove most of their user page content. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 04:26, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

@Jim1138: note taken, it's a bit bizarre though as there's conflicting information at Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#Others' comments (which is what I've always been aware of, but will take into consideration of what you've posted). Thanks, Flickerd (talk) 04:34, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
From the action of admins that I've seen, removal of most anything from one's "own" user pages is acceptable. Though, not necessary good practice. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 05:37, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
There's always catchalls such as wp:gaming and Conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman! Jim1138 (talk) 05:39, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

2016 AFL season page

It looks like this page has been vandalised recently by an anonymous user. For example it has Sydney playing Adelaide in the first week of the finals, and I think several round by round results have been swapped. Saw your name on one of the most recent pages so I thought I should bring this to your attention and you might want to review them and roll back those changes. 1.129.96.242 (talk) 04:29, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on it from now on. I've been on holidays and haven't seen the vandalism; this time of year always has higher levels of vandalism unfortunately. Thanks, Flickerd (talk) 02:15, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

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 Fixed. Flickerd (talk) 13:36, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

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 Fixed. Flickerd (talk) 16:06, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

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Reference errors on 8 October

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 Fixed. Flickerd (talk) 02:30, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Ty Vickery

Hi, apologies for the late-night post but can you please keep an eye on the Ty Vickery page for at least the next 12 hours; someone has updated it as if he has already signed with Hawthorn, but from what I (and most likely you) know no official announcement has been made as of yet.

Cheers, MasterMind5991 (talk) 11:12, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

@MasterMind5991:, no worries, I've got it on my watchlist and I'll try keep an eye on it.. it's always a fun time of year with all this speculation and Wikipedia (note the hint of sarcasm). Thanks, Flickerd (talk) 11:45, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Ty Vickery - Recent updates

I appreciate the effort to keep the page updated but I'm not making updates for no reason here. Your games and goals box was not properly hidden (ie it was showing loud and clear in the info box) and your section re:signing has incorrect syntax. You reference Richmond declining to match an offer yet make no previous mention to an offer. If you're going to roll back other people's edits, at least put some effort into keeping them accurate and informative. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tigerman2612 (talk • contribs) 01:46, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

  • @Tigerman2612: I appreciate yours too, but what I have done is all correct, we don't hide games once a player has moved to a new club on Wikipedia, and the whole purpose of joining as a free agent means there was an offer by a club, it does not need to be spelled out, it's the way we have always written it. A lot of the edits that I do are consistent with the way others edit too. I do try to keep a good rapport with editors, and it is why I have tried to keep you informed on things, all I'm doing is trying to improve the page, I'm not against you, and I do think you do a good job on Wikipedia. Flickerd (talk) 01:56, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Women's draft and discussion

Thanks for the heads up on the discussion re:AFLW. It's become part of a pet project for me and have already started planning subpages for the Women's teams to link to from the men's club pages. I agree with you on the draft navbox. 190 something red links will be of no use to anyone so it can wait until/if pages for a large number of players start to spring up. I'll have to throw my hat in the ring in the talk page too because i think there's definitely enough notability to have pages for most aspects of the league. Thanks again for making me aware of the discussion. Cheers, Tigerman2612 (talk) 11:47, 11 October 2016

@Tigerman2612: No worries, happy to help out :) Flickerd (talk) 12:56, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Footy players' categories

Sorry mate, I actually forgot, and was thinking of the soccer consensus which is to categorise when they join. Thanks --SuperJew (talk) 09:10, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

@SuperJew: no worries, it's all good. Flickerd (talk) 09:13, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Good Article Reassessment of Tom Hawkins (footballer)

Tom Hawkins (footballer), an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article.

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110.140.78.230

Are you real — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.140.78.230 (talk) 05:28, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Women's exhibition series

I've moved back the Mo Hope page edit, because the AFL Women's league itself is related to, but not really incorporating the exhibition series matches of the last few years. I understand the inclination, but I think the league being in it's inaugral season next year marks it as distinct to what has come before. I'll get to reorganising the other players pages I've made too because I myself was wondering how that should go when I made them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tigerman2612 (talk • contribs) 04:48, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

@Tigerman2612: No worries, I would still be careful calling the exhibition series as part of an amateur career, perhaps a different heading would be suitable? Overall, I'm not overly fussed either way, it just does feel a bit awkward to me. Flickerd (talk) 04:52, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
Agreed. It sits awkwardly either way. Might just sit on it for a while and see how the AFL treats it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tigerman2612 (talk • contribs) 05:43, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Praise

you're doing a good job on the last trade day! Purrum (talk) 01:15, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

@Purrum: thanks for that, I appreciate it. I can't believe the amount of trades that have gone through at the last minute though! Flickerd (talk) 01:24, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Top effort to monumental task. Thank you Purrum (talk) 00:06, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 9 November

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Sam Mitchell

Hi Flickerd

With regards to the message you sent me, I removed the paragraph concerning the so-called "Kneeing Controversy" from Sam Mitchell's page because this is nothing more than an overblown story which has been picked up on and wrung for all it's worth by those who don't like Mitchell - mainly Fremantle fans who misguidedly blamed him for Nat Fyfe's leg stress fracture which derailed his and his team's 2013 season.

Wikipedia is supposed to be an on-line encyclopaedia - not a forum for petty, vindictive sports fans to throw stones against the players from rival teams. There was no "kneeing controversy" unless you believe every 'beat up' story from the tabloid media. Mitchell was cleared of any wrong-doing in one incident (involving Taylor Walker) and after the subsequent incident involving Nat Fyfe, Mitchell pleaded guilty and received the smallest possible punishment: a $1000 fine. Not even a 1 match suspension!

Sam Mitchell is a long-serving, highly-decorated footballer whose 300 game career is not defined by that minor incident. You could post similar paragraphs in the profiles of nearly EVERY AFL footballer if you so desired. If you look at wikipages of other high profile footballers, there is no mention of their minor on-field transgressions. It's not as though I'm a Sam Mitchell fan boy who is trying to sweep something terrible under the rug.

Wikipedia normally has a good track record of policing the trolls who seek to undermine the site of factual, informative, worthwhile content.

Best regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harvey Carp (talk • contribs) 06:44, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@Harvey Carp: unfortunately it's not just as you say, this has been an issue in the past with people removing the content without adequate explanation and many (non-Fremantle supporters) have restored the content who aren't trolls but reliable editors. It's not just about the incident in isolation but there has been reliable sources referring to him kneeing on multiple occasions and the paragraph eludes to that. The paragraph does not represent a "forum for petty, vindictive sports fans to throw stones against the players from rival teams" as you say, but simply states the fact, it's up to the reader to interpret it how they wish, it remains very neutral. There are many players who have been involved in controversy that have it written in their Wikipedia article, and it's not done to be defamatory to the player, but simply to state the facts which generated coverage, which in this case, it has for Sam Mitchell, and the small paragraph does not define his career as you make reference to, as I'll say again, it's a statement of facts. If you disgaree with something, then it's best to talk about it on the talk page, rather than removing mass amounts of content without explanation because you will nearly always be reverted. Thanks, Flickerd (talk) 07:00, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

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The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

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Great work!

The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
Thanks so much for updating the 2016 AFL draft and team squads. Superb effort! SuperJew (talk) 10:53, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
@SuperJew: Thanks heaps, I really appreciate it. There were a couple of mistakes in there though, oops. Flickerd (talk) 10:55, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Ordering of yet to debut players on List of Collingwood Football Club players

Hey mate, I really think that the order they arrive at the club is much more relevant to yet to debut list than the alphabet order. You wrote "sorting the senior/rookie list columns allows for seeing the order the players arrived", but it really doesn't as sorting by senior list column has the rookies above Sier, who arrived a year earlier, while sorting by rookie list has Sier somewhere in the middle. I can to almost a correct order by sorting by senior and then by rookie, but it is very not intuitive and still has trades and draftees mixed. If people want to see it alpha ordered it is simple to sort by player column and much more intuitive.

I see no advantage to an alpha order, either than cases where there isn't another order. It's a default order when there's no more meaningful order priority. For example, if you have a list of all players who kicked more than X goals in their career, you'll order it primarily by goals kicked, not alphabetically. This list is about their debut and time at the club, so their time at club should be the priority order.

Regarding, "Consistency among project, norm is to have in alphabetical order", is there anywhere people actually talked about it, or did you just gather it from other pages being that way? Maybe the consistent norm should be ordered by when the players arrive at the club and the rest of the pages should be changed.

Cheers --SuperJew (talk) 12:27, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

@SuperJew: As long as I have seen it, editors have done it in alphabetical order per ([6], [7] same editor, diff page), [8], ([9] update of other players alphabetically is in the same edit as updating the format), just as a sample. You probably know the answer already to the part about whether it's been discussed before, as there hasn't been a great deal of discussion in the past regarding these sort of things in the project, however, seeing as long-term editors have done it that way for an extended period of time, I'd say it's safe to say that alphabetical order is the consensus, as that order has stability. While you see it being more relevant to order it by arrival, I personally see alphabetical as the more appropriate order, along with the editors I've linked to above, so alpha is the consistent norm. Thanks, Flickerd (talk) 13:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
But why do you see alpha as a more appropriate order? What does it mean that it has more stability? Order arrived has exact same stability. --SuperJew (talk) 13:21, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
@SuperJew: What I meant about stability is to do with consensus not physical order in itself, i.e. it has the been the standard order for an extended period of time. The reason I see alpha as more appropriate is because I don't see the primary purpose of this part being "about their debut and time at the club" as you say, but merely as a list of players who happen to be grouped together due to not having debuted yet and don't fit anywhere else on the page. While it is interesting if a player has been on a list for a long time without debuting, it is irrelevant to when a player will ultimately make their debut, as just for the sake of argument, being on a list for three years doesn't mean a player is closer to making his debut than a player who has been on a list for a year, so there is no sense to having it in that order. Therefore, it reverts to alphabetical order, as to me there is no "more meaningful order priority" in the list, as listing by arrival places undue weight on their time at the club and the direct link to a debut (what I referred to above), and as I've said that isn't the purpose of the list. Hope that clarifies it a bit better. Thanks, Flickerd (talk) 13:43, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
I understand what you're saying now. Thanks for the clarification. --SuperJew (talk) 17:23, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

On a new note, some of the pages you linked above have a table of players who were listed but never debuted. Seems to me not notable, no? --SuperJew (talk) 17:23, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

@SuperJew: It's a tricky one, I think it's notable to have as the players were still listed on a VFL/AFL list. I think that list part started happening with the newer clubs as it's much easier to track since the establishment of the drafts, but the older ones are very difficult to complete (not impossible though). It's also somewhere to redirect pages that are made prematurely, i.e. before a player has debuted and don't meet GNG, which seems to happen a fair bit every year; the standard procedure is to redirect to the list of XX players, and there are times when a page is created and a player gets delisted without debuting, and that is when the table is necessary, example Hamish Shepheard. As I said, it's a tricky one for the older clubs, but it doesn't hurt to have it. Flickerd (talk) 04:34, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Tennis draw articles

Hi Flickerd,

Not sure if this is something that you might be interested in, but with the tennis season coming up (in particular, the 2017 Australian Open), and this period of time typically drawing moderate-to-high vandalism on Wikipedia (such as people inserting fake draws and fake scores, etc.), perhaps you'd be interested in patrolling some tennis-related pages, such as:

Just so you know:

  • Seeds one and two in the men (United Kingdom Andy Murray and Serbia Novak Djokovic) and women (Germany Angelique Kerber and United States Serena Williams) are locked into their respective positions in the draw, that is, the top and bottom of the main draw.
  • The official draws for both men and women are released on 13 January at 11:00am AEST.
  • Some people (including myself) insert set scores as they are completed, update the draw once a match is completed and un-bold players as they get eliminated from the Australian Open.

Please do not hesitate to reply to this message if you have any enquiries. Thanks, MasterMind5991 (talk) 11:38, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

@MasterMind5991: I do always enjoy the summer of tennis so if I have time I may be able to help out with patrolling the pages. Thanks, Flickerd (talk) 13:46, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
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