User talk:Ilvar

Welcome!

Hello, Ilvar, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Ghirla ^-трёп- 14:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Portal:Russia

Hi there. Thanks for your articles. Could you announce your Russia-related articles on Portal:Russia/New article announcements? You may even want to add this board and Portal:Russia/Russia-related Wikipedia notice board to your watchlist. Keep up the good work, Ghirla ^-трёп- 14:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Aye, will do (Ilvar 01:09, 25 March 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Six-course lunch

Hi there. Regarding a recent edit (- "six-course lunch" = controvercy? oh, give me a break, this is not for the Wikipedia), you indicated the controversy surrounding the G8 Leaders lavish dining was not for the wikipedia. On what grounds and policy did you make that decision. I will agree that I may not have worded it correctly and could have included some links for citation, however, a google search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=G8+lavish+dining) indicates that the actions by the G8 leaders did spark outrage. As well, the actions and decisions of the G8 Leaders should also be included on the Wiki page. Could you please elaborate on the deletion of the information? Thank you.Msisshinryu (talk) 15:27, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

While I do find myself somewhat uncomfortable with with the edit summary, I'm persuaded that Ilvar's action was justified. I had wanted to post something similar; but the best I could manage at 34th G8 summit was the following:

"*Food: Fifty chefs from 23 local hotels are creating special meals using 105 different local products;^[1] and the first night banquet featured 19 dishes.^[2] Expressed differently, the summit leaders enjoyed a six-course lunch followed by an eight-course dinner.^[1]

While scrupulously maintaining NPOV, this could have become a meaningful detail, an example of the kind of illustrative trivia which becomes emblematic of a broader point.

Handled differently, the gravamen of the deleted text could have been helpful, compelling, insightful. International newspapers did report the arguable irony in the contrast between what the leaders were eating and what they were talking about.^[3] At the 34th G8 summit, one of the issues on the agenda was world hunger and escalating food costs.

In this instance, as in so many others, the salutatory ability to satisfy the requirement of WP:verifiability does little to address the quite different mandate of WP:Neutral point of view. The contrast between talks about food and the lavish dinners isn't something we can expect to disappear any time soon. In due course, I'd want to try to re-introduce this topic, but whatever sentences are eventually posted would have to be able to withstand Ilvar's careful scrutiny and something more as well -- the kind of "original research" more generally known as common sense.

For example, the image of British Prime Minister Gordon Brown sitting down to an eight-course dinner in Hokkaido just hours after telling his constituents to waste less food was bad public relations, a jarring clash of seemingly contradictory mixed-messages, an easy-to-grasp gaffe.^[4] Many activists seized the opportunity to make a point. Oxfam was not alone in trying to leverage a mere dinner menu to argue that "if it costs this much for them to meet, they had better make some serious decisions to increase aid to poor countries .... If they are just going to sit around and eat, while millions of people face starvation, that is not good enough. They must act -– not eat."^[5]

Lost in the furor over the menu was that the event's planners were motivated by quite different objectives. The dining theme, "Hokkaido, blessings of the earth and the sea," was intended to feature local food. Toyako was awarded the G8 summit as it was a chance to put the resort on the map.^[6] The former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is reported to have rejected calls to hold the summit in an urban area with more plentiful accommodation. The Japanese hosts are hoping that the G8 conference would deliver an economic boost to Hokkaido. The northern island is sparsely populated compared with most of Japan, and its economy has perennially lagged behind the national average.^[7]

Do you see my point? As an example of "controversy" at the G8 summits, this was actually an ideal vehicle for getting to the heart of the matter, as a way of moving towards a broader discussion of what the G8 summits actually do achieve in the contexts of short-term and long-term analyses.--Tenmei (talk) 17:42, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

_______________

^ ^a ^b "The G8 summit in numbers," The Earth Times (San Diego). July 7, 2008.
^ Webster, Phillip. "G8 leaders feast on 13 courses after discussing world food shortages," Times (London). July 7, 2008.
^ Settle, Michael. "Anger over 19-course banquet at food crisis summit," Herald (Glasgow). July 8, 2008; "G8 summit leaders get stuffed over food crisis," Herald Sun (Melbourne). July 9, 2008; "G8: Eat as we say, not as we do<" New Zealand Herald (Aukland). July 9, 2008.
^ Price, Lance. "Gordon Brown must assert his authority," Telegraph (London). July 11, 2008.
^ Grice, Andrew. "Over caviar and sea urchin, G8 leaders mull food," Independent (London). July 8, 2008; "Outrage Over Lavish G-8 dinner At Food Crisis Talks," RTT News. July 9, 2008.
^ Nicolayesen, Lars. "Toyako hopes G8 summit will bring in the tourists," Deutsch Presse-Agentur. July 7, 2008.
^ "A secluded setting for G8 leaders in Japan," Business Standard (India). July 6, 2008.

Deprod: Culture war in Canada

I have removed the {{prod}} tag from Culture war in Canada, which you proposed for deletion. I'm leaving this message here to notify you about it. If you still think the article should be deleted, please don't add the {{prod}} template back to the article. Instead, feel free to list it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Thanks!

In your comment, you said:

The subject as a general term does have any definite meaning in the Canadian political culture, and is rather used to describe various unrelated events. An attempt to pile together hooligans from G8, HRC and Islam, 2008 failed coalition, Quebec and the rebellions of 1837 as part of some generalized "Culture war in Canada" is purely artificial, and is nonexistent outside of marxist/anarchist or other fringe context. Individual events are better covered within History of Canada or other specialized articles

I agree that piling events together as an artificial "Culture war in Canada" is certainly bogus. However, I think that there might still be a documentable "Culture war in Canada" that is parallel to the culture war in the U.S.

--Kevinkor2 (talk) 04:24, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like Peter Gray has started the AfD process. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Culture war in Canada.--Kevinkor2 (talk) 06:20, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom elections are now open!

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[earth1-1] "The G8 summit in numbers," The Earth Times (San Diego). July 7, 2008.

[webster2-2] Webster, Phillip. "G8 leaders feast on 13 courses after discussing world food shortages," Times (London). July 7, 2008.

[3] Settle, Michael. "Anger over 19-course banquet at food crisis summit," Herald (Glasgow). July 8, 2008; "G8 summit leaders get stuffed over food crisis," Herald Sun (Melbourne). July 9, 2008; "G8: Eat as we say, not as we do<" New Zealand Herald (Aukland). July 9, 2008.

[4] Price, Lance. "Gordon Brown must assert his authority," Telegraph (London). July 11, 2008.

[5] Grice, Andrew. "Over caviar and sea urchin, G8 leaders mull food," Independent (London). July 8, 2008; "Outrage Over Lavish G-8 dinner At Food Crisis Talks," RTT News. July 9, 2008.

[6] Nicolayesen, Lars. "Toyako hopes G8 summit will bring in the tourists," Deutsch Presse-Agentur. July 7, 2008.

[7] "A secluded setting for G8 leaders in Japan," Business Standard (India). July 6, 2008.

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