User talk:Jcfll44
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October 2018
[edit]Asturleonese
[edit]Hello Julio César. I see that you started editing in the English WP very recently, however you have been very active, especially in all that regards the Astur-leonese language. I'm not very comfortable with your way of changing articles, especially since you seem to have very defined ideas about what a language is and what it is not. My thoughts:
- In the Spanish WP, Asturian, Leonese and Mirandese have been clearly identified as a single language. However that has not been made for either Cantabrian or Extremaduran. Of course nobody denies that those linguistic varieties are related to Astur-leonese, but just including them as parts of it is probably too bold. My concern is that languages are not things, and that in the context of a dialectal continuum it is always debatable how to classify this or that dialect. The bottom line is that different people, including specialists, have different opinions about how any language should be grouped, and where it ends. Please tell me what do you think of this. --Jotamar (talk) 17:21, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
- @Jotamar: Hello, I understand your concern, but let me explain:
As you probably know I'm from León, and so I wanted to learn about the regional languages of the area. I got really frustrated when I started to look at the English articles only to find each article said one thing and made me more confused than I already was. So:
- I looked up the difference between a language and a dialect here, and found it to be an unnecessary distinction to make. (But inevitably had to chose between either when writing the articles.)
- I started to read about the subject and watch various documentaries like this one to get a grip of what the professionals agreed on.
- Then I looked at the existing articles in both Spanish and English to see what there was an agreement on. I found the Leones and Asturleonese Spanish articles to be: concordant with what I had learned, logical and humble; so decided to use their explanations and titles as a standard for the translations.
As you can see, I tried to make reasonable and well-informed improvements to the articles, and I am well aware that languages are not stationary but fluid, as I have learned many languages myself. My intention was to standardise the information so that all articles would carry the reader to a rough conclusion open to discussion, obviously. I'm not sure if you're aware that there is an underlying issue in the area where some Asturians claim their llingua to be radically independent and superior to the other "dialects", like Leonese, - of Asturian - (Because Asturleonese has nothing to do with Asturian). And this was clearly visible in the articles. Well, just as an example, why on Earth is the ast-wiki "Asturianu" and not "Asturlliones"? To be honest I haven't reached Cantabrian and Extremaduran yet, so I couldn't argue about them. I understand they are more different than the other "dialects" of Asturleonese, but I wouldn't know for sure.
I hope this clarifies things for you,
Regards,
Julio César Fernández Llamera (talk) 18:26, 19 October 2018 (UTC)Jcfll44
- I've recovered the original name in Extremaduran language, because your title was highly inconsistent with the contents of the page, and I think it was too far-fetched anyway. Given that you haven't made a lot of effort to keep your title in Asturian language, your other title changes will have to be reverted too eventually. --Jotamar (talk) 13:46, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Jotamar: That is ok. I believe it's just hard to standardise something which is not even understood by Spanish professionals. I haven't been active this month, so that is why I didn't see the changes to the article. From the discussion it seems people have differing ideas, but I will post a new topic to see if we can reach a consensus on the title on the page.