User talk:Mangogirl2

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Welcome!

Hello, Mangogirl2, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} after the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! Mak (talk) 03:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIII - March 2007

The March 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 19:33, 30 March 2007 (UTC) [reply]

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIV (April 2007)

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This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 14:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC) [reply]

Pulsed rocket motors

Good job getting the refs for the article. It is easy to format a simple ref like that, just type it in like this:

<*ref>put the ref text here</ref>

Don't actually enter the asterisk (*) that I put in the first expression, that's only there to keep everything visible, otherwise it collapses into an actual ref like this:

^[1]

You can always go to the article and click on "Edit this page" to see exactly how it should look when you type it in. Good luck, and feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Doc Tropics 21:12, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XV (May 2007)

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This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 15:20, 9 June 2007 (UTC) [reply]

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XVI (June 2007)

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King George Elementary School

King George Elementary School has been proposed for deletion. An editor felt the subject might not be notable enough for an article. Please review Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability for the relevant guidelines. If you can improve the article to address these concerns, please do so.

If no one objects to the deletion within five days by removing the "prod" notice, the article may be deleted without further discussion. If you remove the prod notice, the deletion process will stop, but if an editor is still not satisfied that the article meets Wikipedia guidelines, it may be sent to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion for consensus. NickelShoe (Talk) 00:04, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that a category exists doesn't mean anything that fits in the category belongs in an encyclopedia. There is, for instance, a Category:1983 births, but that doesn't mean I need an article just because I've been born. What you most need are secondary sources, not only to demonstrate notability, but also to comply with Wikipedia:No original research. 23:27, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

KIng George Elementary School

A few points here...

When you leave someone a message, please do it at the bottom rather than the top of their page. (but that's not important)

A topic need to establish some form of notability in order to have notability. For instance, I could fling a rubber band held with my toes at my cat. My friends could start doing it as well. Maybe our whole little town is doing it. But a person in San Diego doesn't need to know about it.

My school is in AR and the PTA as well. It doesn't have an article. It doesn't need one. It lives on in the hearts and mids of the 400 or so people who attend it. It might even help it if weren't your school.

†Ðanieltiger45† ^{Talk to me}as 15:42, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Military history WikiProject coordinator selection

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are looking to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by August 14! Kirill 03:42, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Military history WikiProject coordinator election

The Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators from a pool of fourteen candidates to serve for the next six months. Please vote here by August 28! Kirill 17:43, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XVIII (August 2007)

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Delivered by grafikbot 09:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC) [reply]

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XIX (September 2007)

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XX (October 2007)

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Delivered by grafikbot 14:28, 3 November 2007 (UTC) [reply]

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXI (November 2007)

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This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot 02:10, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral point

Dear Mangogirl2. Many thanks for your enquiry (to my Talk page) on the subject of Neutral point. When I first visited Center of pressure I saw a number of errors. The worst was "The center of pressure must lie behind the center of gravity for a positive static margin and static stability." This is incorrect because the center of pressure of an airfoil moves as angle of attack changes. Up until 7 July 2007 there was a sentence that captured that sentiment. Under "Historical useage", it said "... the center of pressure may be located an infinite distance forward or behind the airfoil."

The center of pressure on the main wing of an aircraft can lie behind the aircraft! On 15 November I rectified the 7 July deletion by inserting a few paragraphs to explain the movement of the center of pressure.

The article on Center of pressure actually talks about the center of pressure of an aircraft, not just an airfoil. This is odd because, providing thrust and drag act through a common point, the center of pressure on an aircraft in straight, level flight will always be located exactly at the center of gravity. (This statement comes from consideration of basic statics. In straight, level flight weight is equal but opposite to the lift on the whole aircraft.) Otherwise the aircraft would be accelerating nose-up or nose-down! It is not valid to say the center of gravity must lie ahead of the center of pressure of the aircraft. In straight, level flight the contribution of the horizontal stabilizer will always act to bring the center of pressure of the whole aircraft in line with the center of gravity.

It is reasonable to talk about the center of pressure of an airfoil, but not the center of pressure of an aircraft. The true value of an understanding of the center of pressure on an airfoil is that it leads to an understanding of aerodynamic center, and it is the aerodynamic center that is of fundamental significance in a study of longitudinal stability. For stability in a tailless aircraft, the center of gravity must not lie behind the aerodynamic center. In a conventional aircraft with a horizontal stabilizer, the stabilizer adds to the stability of the aircraft so that the most aft position of the center of gravity lies behind the aerodynamic center by an amount that is proportional to the tail volume - the planform area of the stabilizer multiplied by the moment arm of the stabilizer about the aerodynamic center. So the location of the center of gravity for neutral static stability in a conventional aircraft is a small distance aft of the aerodynamic center. That point is known as the neutral point. (For longitudinal dynamic stability, the most aft point is known as the maneuver point.)

You have convinced me that, at present, neutral point is something of an orphan. In the near future, I will enhance the information on the subject so it is not so much of an orphan.

There is already some good information at Pitching moment although it is a bit too long on mathematics and short on information for the non-mathetician.

Feel free to write to me again. Best regards. Dolphin51 03:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again. I will begin by moving Neutral point out of Center of pressure and creating an article of its own. It sounds as though the use of center of pressure in missile engineering is specialised and significantly different to aircraft engineering. (Perhaps a missile behaves like a symmetrical airfoil - there are no cambered missiles!) It will then be desirable to sub-divide Center of pressure into "Aircraft" and "Missiles" so readers can see the two different applications. If you agree feel free to create a new sub-heading devoted to missiles, and I will do the same for aircraft. The revised "Center of pressure" could provide links to "Static margin", "Aerodynamic center" and "Neutral point". What is epsilon angle of attack? Dolphin51 (talk) 20:33, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again. I have created a new article called "Longitudinal static stability". I transferred a lot of material on this subject out of "Pitching moment". I also transferred the material on neutral point out of "Center of pressure". Feel free to develop "Center of pressure" by creating a sub-heading devoted to missiles and the significance of center of pressure in analysing those vehicles. Regards Dolphin51 (talk) 10:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again. If you visit Longitudinal static stability, then go to para 5.2 Static stability, you will find a definition of static margin h. Someone has written "h is known as the static margin. For stability it must be negative." For consistency within Wikipedia I have written that positive stability is associated with a negative static margin, and vice versa. In the next week I hope to add some references to the article on Longitudinal static stability. While I am checking those references I will look for confirmation of the above. Best regards. Dolphin51 (talk) 11:21, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And again. I have added three references to Longitudinal static stability. Irving defines the static margin as -dCmg/dCL. He states (page 31) that the negative sign is to ensure a positive static margin accompanies positive static stability. He also says this criterion for static margin "is that generally used in British practice." He goes on (page 39) to write about the distance between the neutral point and the CG, and calls it the "c.g. margin". This approach is logical but it is different to what is written in WP under Longitudinal static stability. Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators does not appear to mention static margin. Clancy is consistent with Irving (both British!) although Clancy uses both 'static margin' and 'c.g. margin' as though they are synonymous. Perkins and Hage, (Airplane Performance, Stability and Control) is a respected US book on the subject. I will try to check it out in the coming week to see what it says about static margin, and whether it is conventionally positive for positive stability, or negative. Regards Dolphin51 (talk) 00:55, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi MG2. I have looked at Perkins and Hage. They talk about dCmg/dCL, and hN-h, but without giving them a name. I saw no comment about whether these terms must be negative or positive for stability. I found a very good reference in Aerodynamics, Aeronautics, and Flight Mechanics by McCormick, Barnes W. (1979), John Wiley & Sons Inc., New York NY. McCormick defines the static margin as hN-h where hN is the location of the neutral point and h is the location of the CofG. Defined in this way, static margin is positive when the CofG is ahead of the neutral point and the aircraft has positive stability, which is good. I have not yet seen a reference (other than WP) where static margin is defined in such a way that positive stability requires a negative static margin. Longitudinal static stability makes reference to N.A.V. Piercy's book in the vicinity of the comment about negative static margin for positive stability, so perhaps Piercy is the source. I have access to Piercy's book (Elementary Aerodynamics) so I will check to see if that is so. (Piercy is also British.)

I have visited the reference you gave me to the NASA web site. It is very relevant and I now have a better understanding of CofP as applied to missiles. I see that a missile (as opposed to a cruise missile) has no lifting surfaces other than the fins which only generate lift when the body of the missile is not aligned with the relative airflow. I think your recent changes to Center of pressure are very good in that they distinguish between missiles and aircraft, and allow the different applications of center of pressure to be clear. The missile is a symmetrical body and therefore the center of pressure does not move as angle changes. As a result, center of pressure is suitable for use in stability considerations. In contrast, on a cambered airfoil, center of pressure does move significantly as angle of attack changes, so center of pressure is not suitable for use in stability considerations and aerodynamic center is defined. On a missile, it appears to me that center of pressure and aerodynamic center are co-located, so the added complication of aerodynamic center is not necessary. Best wishes for 2008. Dolphin51 (talk) 10:41, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi MG2! Thank you for your positive reaction to the work I did in tidying up Static Margin. I'm no expert on Static Margin so I was approaching the article the way I thought a first-time reader would, and trying to anticipate what the first-time reader would be thinking. I must admit that as I made changes I was thinking "I hope MG2 won't mind me changing this".

Seeing you are interested in another topic in the aerospace field, I have initiated a debate on Static pressure using the Talk page. Please visit Talk:Static pressure and peruse the various exchanges. I would be very pleased if you would leave a comment, or at least declare which of the two points of view you prefer.

I expect to browse through N.A.V. Piercy's book tomorrow. If it says nothing about negative static margin being associated with positive static stability I will be tempted to work through the various articles on WP and eliminate all those confusing references. Best regards. Dolphin51 (talk) 08:40, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi MG2! Thanks for joining the debate on Static pressure. I made a comprehensive re-write of the article about a month ago and so far no-one has challenged any of it, so it can't be too far from the truth.

I went looking for N.A.V. Piercy's book "Aerodynamics" but only found his book "Elementary Aerodynamics". It says little or nothing about static margins. I did find something interesting in "Airplane Aerodynamics" by Dommasch, Sherby and Connolly. On page 447 (4th Ed.) those authors define the static margin as x/c and say "x/c is always negative for a stable airplane." All the other books I have found on the subject define static margin in such a way that it is always positive for a stable airplane. Consequently I am tempted to go back through Wikipedia in the places where it talks about negative static margin for a stable aircraft, change it to positive static margin for a stable aircraft, and acknowledge that at least one author (Dommasch et al) does it differently. What do you think? Dolphin51 (talk) 02:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi MG2! Thanks for your message on my Talk page. I left a message for you on your Talk page on 7 February but you didn't respond so I have used that as my excuse for doing nothing in the area of negative static margins. I have been working on Talk:Bernoulli's principle and other articles. When I saw that you had been off the air for all of February I assumed you were taking a vacation up there in the Northern Neck, canoeing and skiing and camping and hunting! I'm pleased you have now created a User page for yourself. We begin to see who you are and your nom-de-plume shows up in blue rather than red.

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter — Issue XXII (December 2007)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XXII (December 2007)

Project news

The Intelligence task force has been created.
The contest department has completed its ninth month of competition. The top scorer this month is Blnguyen, with 22 points, followed by Dreamafter, with 8 points, and Redmarkviolinist, with 6 points. Blnguyen also remains the overall leader, with 162 points in total. All project members are encouraged to submit the articles they're working on as entries.
Help with converting deprecated infoboxes is needed; any assistance is welcome!
{{WPMILHIST}} now supports an explicit tag (class=DAB) for marking disambiguation pages.

Articles of note

New featured articles:

New A-Class articles:

Current proposals and discussions

A discussion about minimizing terminological ambiguity has begun.

Awards and honors

Blnguyen has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his efforts in improving the quality of articles related to Vietnamese military history, including the creation of numerous A-Class articles.
Woodym555 has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his outstanding work on topics related to the Victoria Cross, notably including the creation of featured articles, featured lists, and a featured topic.
For their outstanding efforts as part of Tag & Assess 2007, Bedford, TomStar81, and Parsival74 have been awarded the gold, silver, and bronze Wikis, respectively.

Tag & Assess 2007

Tag & Assess 2007 is now officially over, with slightly under 68,000 articles processed. The top twenty scores are as follows:

1. Bedford — 7,600

2. TomStar81 — 5,500

3. Parsival74 — 5,200

4. FayssalF — 3,500

5. Roger Davies — 3,000

6. Ouro — 2600

7. Kateshortforbob — 2250

8. Cromdog — 2,200

9. BrokenSphere — 2000

9. Jacksinterweb — 2,000

9. Maralia — 2,000

12. MBK004 — 1,340

13. JKBrooks85 — 1,250

14. Sniperz11 — 1100

15. Burzmali — 1000

15. Cplakidas — 1000

15. Gimme danger — 1000

15. Raoulduke471000

15. TicketMan — 1000

15. Welsh — 1000

15. Blnguyen — 1000

Although the drive is officially closed, existing participants can continue tagging until January 31 if they wish, with the extra tags counting towards their tally for barnstar purposes.

We'd like to see what lessons can be learned from this drive, so we've set up a feedback workshop. Comments and feedback from participants and non-participants alike are very welcome and appreciated.

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIII (January 2008)

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Military history WikiProject coordinator elections

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by February 14! Kyriakos (talk) 21:02, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIV (February 2008)

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXV (March 2008)

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVI (April 2008)

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVII (May 2008)

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVIII (June 2008)

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIX (July 2008)

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Nominations for the Military history WikiProject coordinator election

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXX (August 2008)

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Military history WikiProject coordinator election

The September 2008 Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of fourteen candidates. Please vote here by September 30!
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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXI (September 2008)

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The Bugle: Issue LVI, October 2010

Your Military history Newsletter

Project News: Editors for the newsletter, GAN backlog reduction drive
Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content
Members: Contest results, A-class medal recipients
Editorial: EyeSerene sums up our "Five years of military history"

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The Bugle: Issue LVII, November 2010

Your Military History Newsletter

Project News: From the editors, "Military Historian of the Year", New Incubator, Black Project Report
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Editorial: bahamut guides us through "Nominating military biographies for deletion"

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The Bugle: Issue LVIII, December 2010

Your military history newsletter – Volume LVIII, December 2010 From the editors • "Military Historian of the Year" • Discussions • The month's new featured and A-class content • Review awards Contest results • A-class medal recipients • bahamut teaches us proper usage of "Jargon and acronyms"
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The Bugle: Volume LVIX, January 2011

Your Military history Newsletter

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Editorial: EyeSerene discusses "Writing neutrally for Wikipedia"

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The Bugle: Issue LX, February 2011

Your Military History Newsletter

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Editorial: Ed talks about real-world collaborations and how you can help

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The Bugle: Issue LXI, March 2011

Your Military History Newsletter

Project News: From the editors
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Members: Contest results, A-class medal recipients
Editorial: Dank helps you see what article writers want from reviewers

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The Bugle: Issue LXII, April 2011

Your Military History Newsletter

Project News: From the editors
Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content
Members: Contest results, A-class medal recipients
Editorial: Buggie111 discusses neutral point of view

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The Bugle: Issue LXIII, May 2011

Your Military History Newsletter

Project News: From the editors – Contest results, A-class medal recipients
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Editorial: Hawkeye's thoughts on the article writing process

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The Bugle: Issue LXIV, June 2011

Your Military History Newsletter

Project news: From the editors; medal recipients; contest results
Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content
Book reviews: Nick-D looks at Finland and Spitfires
Op-ed: Fifelfoo and hunting for plagiarism

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The Bugle: Issue LXV, July 2011

Your Military History Newsletter

Project news: From the editors; medal recipients; contest results
Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content
Book reviews: Nick-D looks at Zeebrugee and Afghanistan
Op-ed: WereSpielChequers examines RfA

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Military Historian of the Year

Nominations for the "Military Historian of the Year" for 2011 are now open. If you would like to nominate an editor for this award, please do so here. Voting will open on 22 January and run for seven days. Thanks! On behalf of the coordinators, Nick-D (talk) and Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 23:43, 15 January 2012 (UTC) You were sent this message because you are a listed as a member of the Military history WikiProject.[reply]

Military history coordinator election

The Military history WikiProject has started its 2012 project coordinator election process, where we will select a team of coordinators to organize the project over the coming year. If you would like to be considered as a candidate, please submit your nomination by 14 September. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact one of the current coordinators on their talk page. This message was delivered here because you are a member of the Military history WikiProject. – Military history coordinators (about the project • what coordinators do) 09:28, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history coordinator election

Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election, which will determine our coordinators for the next twelve months. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September! Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 22:15, 23 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Military history coordinator election

Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 29 September. Yours, Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 05:22, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:39, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

User group for Military Historians

Greetings,

"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Wikipedia. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at Talk:Discussion to incubate a user group for Wikipedia Military Historians.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:29, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive

Hey y'all, the April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive begins at 00:01 UTC on April 1, 2021 and runs through 23:59 UTC on April 31, 2021. Points can be earned through reviewing articles on the AutoCheck report, reviewing articles listed at WP:MILHIST/ASSESS, reviewing MILHIST-tagged articles at WP:GAN or WP:FAC, and reviewing articles submitted at WP:MILHIST/ACR. Service awards and barnstars are given for set points thresholds, and the top three finishers will receive further awards. To participate, sign up at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_History/April 2021 Reviewing Drive#Participants and create a worklist at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/April 2021 Reviewing Drive/Worklists (examples are given). Further details can be found at the drive page. Questions can be asked at the drive talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:22, 31 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Aerothermodynamics" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Aerothermodynamics. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 22#Aerothermodynamics until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Jalen Folf (talk) 20:43, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

^ put the ref text here

[1] ut the ref text here

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