User talk:OA17151104

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Hello, OA17151104, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

I noticed that one of the first articles you edited appears to be dealing with a topic with which you may have a conflict of interest. In other words, you may find it difficult to write about that topic in a neutral and objective way, because you are, work for, or represent, the subject of that article. Your recent contributions may have already been undone for this very reason.

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, visit the Teahouse, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{Help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:19, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Jim. Please understand that I am brand new to this. Also please understand that the references are not the way I wanted--I wanted them to be more granular--but I don't know (being new) how to do references in this system. Help would be welcome. Right now, I am a bit baffled by how to do things here. As for COI, I am a volunteer at the museum at Camp Manatoc. I am not sure how that is a conflict. I am trying to learn more of the local history having relocated to the Akron area a year ago. I hoped there would be a Wiki page that would help. When there wasn't one, I thought I would try to make one. Being retired, it seemed like a good activity. I have written thousands of pages (really!) of technical documentation during my software career. This first step was me trying to figure out what I was doing in a new system. I had developed a first draft outside of Wikipedia, which I pasted in. I see there are reservations about the Weyrick books. He actually wrote 5 volumes. They are the primary source of info on the camp, council, and Karl Butler. Thanks for any help! Warren OA17151104 (talk) 16:01, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clarifying that you don't have a significant COI. Please have a look at the discussion on my talk page regarding this topic. I'm minded to restore the draft for improvement, but I'll post some guidance here later today before I do that. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:37, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much, Jim, for the helpful and constructive feedback! I will work on it today. Your feedback is much appreciated! Warren OA17151104 (talk) 11:57, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More

When you write about a person,

you must provide independent verifiable sources to enable us to verify the facts and show that they meet the notability guidelines. Sources that are not acceptable include those linked to the person or an associated organisation, press releases, YouTube, IMDB, social media and other sites that can be self-edited, blogs, websites of unknown or non-reliable provenance, and sites that are just reporting what the person claims or interviewing them. Note that references should be in-line so we can tell what fact each is supporting, and should not be bare urls.

Everything you write should have an in-line reference to verify it. The Weyrick books will do, but you need to give the books' isbns, the relevant page number(s) to confirm your claims, and format as publications. As per the discussion on my talk, it will help if you can find other sources such as newspaper coverage.

You must write in a non-promotional tone. Articles must be neutral and encyclopaedic, with verifiable facts, not opinions or reviews.

Your text isn't dreadful, but claims like He was a successful businessman... are opinions.

There shouldn't be any url links in the article, only in the "References" or "External links" sections.

You must not copy text from elsewhere. Copyrighted text is not allowed in Wikipedia, as outlined in this policy. That applies even to pages created by you or your organisation, unless they state clearly and explicitly that the text is public domain. We require that text posted here can be used, modified and distributed for any purpose, including commercial; text is considered to be copyright unless explicitly stated otherwise. There are ways to donate copyrighted text to Wikipedia, as described here; please note that simply asserting on the talk page that you are the owner of the copyright, or you have permission to use the text, isn't sufficient.

Your text contains unreferenced quotations, which are copyright violations, you must give the attribution.

You had no wikilinks, eg Akron, Ohio, Boy Scouts of America, Goodyear

Have a look at Emma Louisa Turner. You don't need anything as extensive or detailed as that, but it will show how references should appear in the text, the "References" section, and the "Cited texts".

@Tavantius: has made constructive comments on my talk page too. I've restored the draft at Draft:H Karl Butler Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:12, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again, Jim! I have entered a new draft. I think you will agree that it is better than the first draft. Again, I appreciate your help, and thanks in advance for any more constructive feedback. Regards, Warren OA17151104 (talk) 20:53, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what you are up to. I restored the draft at Draft:H Karl Butler, but you seem to have created a new on at the bizzare title Template:EngvarB/sandbox. It will have to be deleted, but I'll hold off for a bit so you can transfer your references to the coreectly named page Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:31, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jim, I am not "up to" anything. I am trying to figure out how to work in this system. It was not obvious to me how to edit the old version. I went into the playpen, started using the article you referred me to as a model, and tried to adapt my draft. I don't know how to set the name. I think I have references figured out now. You can correct me if I am wrong. Then I hit publish. I will see if I can figure out how to access and update the old one later today. Thanks, and sorry if I am not doing this right. It's my first time. Warren OA17151104 (talk) 10:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, sorry if I was a bit brusque. The article must be at Draft:H Karl Butler. All you need to do is to copy your references, which look OK, across to the equivalent place in that version, I have't changed the text much. When you have done that, let me know, and if it hasn't been reviewed by then, it will have a decent chance of being accepted. I'll then deleted the Template version, since it's not a template. Incidentally, I won't necessarily know you have posted here unless you start the message with my user name User:Jimfbleak and sign your post in the same edit. I'm only seeing these messages because I'm interested in the topic and keep comong back to check Jimfbleak - talk to me? 10:54, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, I'll just move your version Jimfbleak - talk to me? 10:56, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, your book refs need to be formatted as such and include isbns. Your other refs need the publisher of the page added eg Scouting America Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User:Jimfbleak Thanks, Jim! I appreciate your help and guidance. I have lots of experience with markup languages and systems, just not this markup language and system. I will work on it a bit later. Those Weyrick books are self-published. Unfortunately, there are no ISBNs. The author is the local authority on the history, and he has done a ton of research, but his work being so esoteric would likely not be of interest to a "real" publisher. Thanks again for helping me with this! Karl Butler was an amazing man who accomplished a lot overcoming severe handicaps. I am happy to get his story in a prominent place like Wikipedia. 204.156.199.194 (talk) 12:52, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User:Jimfbleak

Thanks again, Jim, for your help. Please see if the references are correctly formatted now.

Warren

OA17151104 (talk) 16:26, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That looks better now, just need to wait for a reviewer to pick it up now. If you were trying to ping me, you need to link to my username, User:Jimfbleak or ping me with {{ping|Jimfbleak}} (as you see it now}}, either way you should see a link, not just text Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:46, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jimfbleak: Thanks, Jim! Sorry I was so slow in figuring some of this out. I also keep forgetting to thank you for adding the picture of the stone memorial in the camp. I assumed (incorrectly I see now) that you are a reviewer. Out of curiosity--you mentioned being interested in my post--what is it about this post that piqued your interest? Whatever the reason, I appreciate your help and guidance! Regards, Warren OA17151104 (talk) 11:14, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Although I could, I rarely review drafts, and my involvement in this would make it problematic anyway. I've never been a scout, but my girls were both involved when younger in the UK female equivalent, and I have some awareness of the origins of scouting here, just interested in seeing some of the early days of scouting in the US. If you could find a decent photograph of him, it might well be out of copyright and usable here Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:35, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jimfbleak: Thanks, Jim. I am recovering from covid, so I can't go to the museum this weekend, but I will eventually get a picture of him from there or from Weyrick. There is at least one good head shot, but I think I would prefer a photo that more clearly shows the handicaps with which that poor man had to contend. Regards, Warren OA17151104 (talk) 15:52, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jimfbleak: Hi Jim, David Weyrick sent me a good image of a picture of Karl Butler that we have in the museum along with two other individuals. This image is not in his books. I need to go to the museum tomorrow to ensure I get the caption right. Given that Butler died in 1926 and is much younger in the picture than he was when he died, should I use the tag {{PD-old-100}}? Weyrick has assured me that there are no copyright issues with the image, but I need to ensure that I designate that properly. Thanks again for all of your help! Warren OA17151104 (talk) 12:57, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The copyright belongs to the photographer, but if the date it was published in the US is more than 100 years ago, that should be OK, obviously it would help if you can pin down the actual date of his age Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:43, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jimfbleak: Hi Jim, I added the file:

File:Merrill Butler (l), H. Karl Butler (c), and David Atwater (r) (circa 1923).jpg - Wikipedia

(which for some reason does not paste as a url). I added it to the article with a reference. I could not figure out a tag-based reference, so I just put in words. Maybe I don't need that at all? As usual, I am struggling when I try to do new things.

Thanks!

Warren OA17151104 (talk) 18:44, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

you don't need a ref, but the image page needs the original source added, book, photograph or whatever, your phote of the image clearly isn't the actual source Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:50, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jimfbleak: Thanks, Jim. Is it better now? File:Merrill Butler (l), H. Karl Butler (c), and David Atwater (r) (circa 1923).jpg - Wikipedia Regards, Warren OA17151104 (talk) 19:02, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

it looks as if your out of copyright hasn't been accepted, but the fair-use posted instead serves the same purpose Jimfbleak - talk to me? 09:46, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jimfbleak: Thanks again, Jim. I find these instructions difficult to follow. I created a license tag and put it in with the image. The instructions say what to do but not where to do it. At any rate, did, did I do this remotely right? It does not link to the article. Perhaps because it is still a draft? I noticed the photo was removed from the article. Can I put it back in? As always, I am grateful for your help. Regards, Warren OA17151104 (talk) 11:17, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use

Fair use images can only be used in the actual article, not the draft, so you can't put it back yet, and you may have to upload again when you do, since unused FU images are usually deleted. I'm surprised that out-of-copyright was rejected, I assume it's because the date can't be verified Jimfbleak - talk to me? 12:49, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: H Karl Butler (October 26)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Memer15151 was:

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The comment the reviewer left was:

The only in-depth source is a series of self-published books. Wikipedia needs multiple in-depth reliable sources to establish notability.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:H Karl Butler and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

UserMemer (chat) Tribs 15:14, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, OA17151104! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! UserMemer (chat) Tribs 15:14, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: H. Karl Butler has been accepted

H. Karl Butler, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider leaving us some feedback.

Thanks again, and happy editing!

UserMemer (chat) Tribs 16:36, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]