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Welcome to The Wikipedia Adventure!

Hi Rama! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission. I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.

• The Wikipedia Adventure Start Page
• The Wikipedia Adventure Lounge
• The Teahouse new editor help space
• Wikipedia Help pages

-- 20:51, Wednesday, August 3, 2016 (UTC)

Mission 1	Mission 2	Mission 3	Mission 4	Mission 5	Mission 6	Mission 7
Say Hello to the World	An Invitation to Earth	Small Changes, Big Impact	The Neutral Point of View	The Veil of Verifiability	The Civility Code	Looking Good Together

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Demerliac request 24 April

Hi Rama, I have just done Snake. She captured two French privateers, Hirondelle in the Channel in 1799, and Esperance in the West Indies in 1803. Could you please check to see if Demerliac has anything. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:16, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

• Hirondelle: the only one that matches the dates and whose capture is not credited to a different ship is n°1778, p.221, a privateer from Dunkirk under Jean Fresson. I have nothing more on her.
• Espérance: I have no ship that matches this date, sorry.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:55, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi Rama, thanks for looking. At least I could the Jean Fresson info, and cite Demerliac, so that's good. I really expected nothing for Espérance. Again, not in the Channel. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:54, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Now Hirondelle seems to be under both Pierre Merie Dugerdin and Jean Fresson, that sounds like at least one is incorrect. I'll have another look, maybe Demerliac could have miscredited the capture to another ship. Cheers! Rama (talk) 04:46, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 6 May

Hi Rama, I have just completed the article Boyne (1787 ship). The French privateer Fraternite captured her around June 1794. Does Demerliac have anything? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:03, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

the only Fraternité I have that matches the dates is a naval Naïade-class brig-corvette (n°431, p.76), not a privateer. The description seems to match, notably the 12 18-pounders. I'll have a look in Roche if you think that this is a likely candidate.

Cheers ! Rama (talk) 16:45, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Interesting. Let me look at my Winfield and Roberts when I get home. If the naval brig-corvette is likely we can push a little further. The one thing that is curious is the size of the crew, which is more consistent with a privateer than a naval vessel. Of course, she may have been a naval vessel on loan to privateers. Thanks for the lead.Acad Ronin (talk) 17:37, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

True, but the armament sounds quite heavy for a privateer — or indeed even for a warship that size, don't you think? Perhaps one of these innovative designs the French were fielding at the time? Rama (talk) 20:20, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

I checked her out in Winfield and Roberts and I withdraw my objections. That book gives the manning for a vessel of her class as 187 men, so no issue there. I will add her to my list of vessels to write about. She seems to have had a limited career so that should be relatively straightforward. I'll let you know when I have done so and we can check Roche then. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 22:30, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 19 May

Hi Rama, Does Demerliac have anything on a French privateer named Telemachus, which captured Lascelles in 1813? Also, does he have anything on the lugger Telemachus/Telemaque that the Hired armed lugger Speedwell captured in 1797? For that matter, does he have anything on any of the privateers that Speedwell captured. Thanks and good hunting. Acad Ronin (talk) 11:59, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

Télémaque, a privateer commissioned in Dunkirk in October 1812 under Captain Jacques-Joseph Calcius, with 55 men and 14 pieces (8 guns and 6 carronnades). Decommissioned in Dieppe in May 1813 (N°1646, p.236).

Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:26, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, the other Télémaque: privateer commissioned in Granville in 1797 under Thomas Yon (N°2026, p.241, nothing more about her) Rama (talk) 17:29, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Implemented. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 17:57, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 6 June

Hi Rama, I have just finished Sulivan (1782 EIC ship). Under Action with a French privateer (1799) I describe an engagement between the merchantman Washington (ex-Sulivan), and a French privateer frigate Bellone. I suspect that this is the vessel that became HMS Bellona, but the article on Bellona does not go back into the late 1790s. Does our friend have anything? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:46, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

the only Bellone matching the dates and type is indeed this one, which was launched in 1797 in Bordeaux. Demerliac states that she was commissioned in November 1799, but there might have been more to this. She was under one Pierre or Michel Destebetcho, with 220 men, 24 8-pounders and 6 36-pounder obusiers. (n°2237, p.282 of 1800-1815)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:40, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Good info. I am in London w/bad wifi access so it took me longer than usual to implement but the info is now in. A couple more pieces of the Great Puzzle are now linked. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:16, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 30 June

Hi Rama, I am now back at home and have just finished Wilding. In 1795 she engaged a French privateer that blew up with the loss of all aboard. As a result there is no English record of her name. Then in 1798 the French privateer Duguay Trouin captured Wilding. We have a mention of Duguay Trouin in the article Duguay-Trouin (French privateer), but I was wondering if Demerliac has anything that we could add to both articles. Lastly, the French Navy briefly employed Wilding as a transport in 1798 and here too I wonder if Demerliac has anything to add. Thanks for the help. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:36, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Wilding: captured merchantman commissioned as a transport in 1798, pierced for 14. Retaken by HMS Spitfire in December 1798 (n°1364, p. 185 of 1792-1799).

Roche does not list her. Cheers! Rama (talk)

Thanks. I have added the Demerliac ref. even though it has no additional info. It provides some support, even though I suspect that he got all his info from English sources.Acad Ronin (talk) 23:40, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

yes, that is my guess as well, sorry not to bring anything new to what you already had. Rama (talk) 11:07, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 1 July

Hi Rama, I have just finished the stubby article HMS Utile. She was the French privateer Utile, launched in 1799 and I was wondering if Demerliac had anything on her. Thanks, and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:29, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

Utile, privateer operating in the Channel from unkown home port, circa 250 tons, 16 to 18 guns. Captured by HMS Boadicea etc. Capsized in the Mediterranean and lost with all hands in November 1811. Plans recreated by the British and available at Greenwich National Maritime Museum (n°2156, p.251 of 1792-1799).

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:56, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks here too, though again there is almost nothing new.Acad Ronin (talk) 23:43, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 2 July

I have just finished HM hired armed cutter Duchess of York. Here there are three French privateers mentioned: Honfleur, Dorade, and Vigoreaux. Maybe we will have better luck this time. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:43, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

• Honfleur: I do not have any Honfleur in my records
• Dorade: no ship by that name in the correct time frame
• Vigoureux: I have a Vigoureux from an unknown home port, commissioned in 1799, and captured by HMS Camilla on 29 January (n°3110, p.324), nothing more on her I am afraid (but we have her correct name at least)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 05:36, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I have added the commissioning year. At least it gives me an excuse to put in the Demerliac reference. Acad Ronin (talk) 11:48, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 5 July

I have just finished the East Indiaman Union. On 22 August 1804 she captured the French privateer Venus of 16 guns and 73 men. Does Demerliac have anything on Venus? regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:48, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

Vénus, brig built in Nantes in 1799-1800 and commissioned as a privateer in August 1803, pierced for 16. Cruise under a Captain Hamon (i'll have to check if there is a relation) with 83 to 173 men and 10 4-pounders, 2 2-pounders and 2 8-pounder carronnades. Captured on 22 August 1804 by Union and Sir William Pulteney (n°2188, p.278)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:58, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Ha. Success. Could you please verify the armament? Were the 2-pounders actually 12-pounders, and were the 8-pounders carronades? When captured had 12 & 8-pounders, and 8-pounders, as you particularly know, tended to be guns. Was Hamon the captain on her 1803 cruise? Lastly, I assume the Demerliac is the 1800-1815 book? Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:22, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello, yes, 1800-1815. I confirm that Demerliac writes 2-pounders and 8-pounder carronades, but it is not beyond him to make mistakes, and a 2-pounder would be a swivel gun so I am not sure that this makes sense. Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:18, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

So, could well be typos, or errors in transcription. I will treat the Demerliac data as questionable. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:07, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Typos, I think not: Demerliac uses the convention "16 viii" for "16 8-pounders", and here we have "2 ii"; this could easily be due to a misreading of the historic lists, for instance. Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:20, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Ugh, Demerliac could as easily have mistyped an "x" as he would a "1". Please ignore the mad ravings of an insufficiently coffeined mind above. Rama (talk) 07:09, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

No worries. Acad Ronin (talk) 08:07, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Troude and Demerliac requests 9 July

Hi Rama, 1) I have just finished HMS Spy (1804). In 1812 the French frigate Gloire captured her and released her the same day as a cartel. Does Troude have anything? 2) I am working on an article about HMS Eugenie (1797), which was the privateer Nouvelle Eugenie that HMS Indefatigable (1784) captured on 19 May 1797. Does Demerliac have anything on Nouvelle Eugenie? Thanks & regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:04, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

Spy: Troude does have an entry for Gloire, but Spy is not mentioned.

Nouvelle Eugénie: 200-ton privateer brig built in Nantes from 1796 to early 1797 and commissioned in 1797. She sailed for her first cruise under Joachim Barbier, with 120 men. Captured by HMS Indefatigable on 11 May 1797 and recommissioned as HMS Eugenia with 90 men and 16 6-pounders. Sold in 1802, plans reconstituted by the British and available at Greenwich. (n°2259, p. 260) Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Too bad about Troude, but good info from Demerliac. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 20:04, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 24 July

Hi Rama, another tough one. I have just finished List of ships named Oracabessa. A French privateer, believed to be named "Vortitude", in October 1797 captured and burned the first vessel in the list. Unfortunately, this occurred off Charleston, South Carolina, so Demerliac probably has nothing, but we can always hope. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:36, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

The name is certainly Fortitude, though Vortitude sounds like a hommage to McMaster Bujold's opus. I'll check as soon as I have the books handy, cheers! Rama (talk) 08:10, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the intro to Bujold. I haven't read SciFi for 40 years and so had never heard of her. I looked her up (on WP), and will try one of her books. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:30, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

The only Fortitude in Demerliac for this period is a naval brig, formerly the British merchantman Fortitude captured in 1794, recommissioned as an aviso in La Rochelle in August 1795. She has 8 2-pounder guns. (n°610, p.99). Cheers! Rama (talk) 22:25, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Interesting. I will look in Winfield and Roberts to see what they have. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:58, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

American sources also refer to the privateer as Veritude (which according to Google happens to be the name of a Los Angeles strip club), and Fortitude. Looks like a dead end for now. Thanks for the help. 11:46, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 28 July

Hi Rama, I was just adding info to Admiral Kingsmill (1796 ship). Apparently the french privateer Courageaux, 18 guns and 214 men, captured her in 1799. Does Demerliac have anything on Courageaux? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:12, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Turns out Courageaux captured a different Admiral Kingsmill. Would still like to know if Demerliac has anything. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:17, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Courageux, 420-ton privateer commissioned in Bordeaux in 1798. First cruise under Captain Beck with 29 officers, 179 to 187 men and 26 guns, until April 1799. Second cruise under Jean Barnard with 253 men adn 28 guns (8- and 6-pounders). Captured by HMS Alcmene and recommissioned as the sloop HMS Lutine. (n°2378, p.270). Cheers! Rama (talk) 22:34, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Also interesting. Now to see what we have on Lutine. Thanks. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:59, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

This one is a mess. In 1799 the British captured the frigate Courageuse, and Courageaux. One became Lutine. The problem is the records are confusing. Some suggest that Courageaux was launched in 1779 and captured in 1798. It is going to be hard to sort this all out. Acad Ronin (talk) 01:50, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Could very well be that a ship be built in 1779, serve as a merchantman, and be recommissioned as a privateer in 1798. Are you thinking of French frigate Courageuse (1778)? Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:11, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

I believe that one is the frigate. The Brits may have have renamed her Courageaux and then Lutine after the frigate Lutine sank. Then there is the issue of prison hulk in the Med. Is the one at Minorca the same one a year or two later at Malta? IF all that is so, what happened to the privateer Courageaux? She was captured in the Atlantic and could have been brought into the Med as a prize, but going back to England is more likely. I am going to have to sit down with paper lined in columns and map out timelines by vessel in parallel. :-) Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:34, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 24 August

Hi Rama, two requests, please. 1) Adventure (1804 ship) appears to have been the French privateer Aventure, or Venture. HMS Acasta captured her in the Channel so Demerliac may very well have info on her. 2) Port Royal was briefly a French privateer, and she captured three privateers. Here I am hoping for the best as she operated in the WIndies. Thanks and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 13:44, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Hello, nothing on either, I am afraid. Better luck next time, hopefully! Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:42, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Oh well. Thanks for looking. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:19, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 18 September

Hi Rama, I have just finished HMS Anacreon (1813) and wondered if Demeerliac had anything on a French privateer named Lion. Regards, 03:05, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

I had a look: there are three possible candidates, but I see no way to chose one from these, and all were very minor units anyway (5 guns at most). Cheers! Rama (talk) 12:13, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Too bad. Thanks for looking. We will keep trying. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:48, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

If you had a clue as to her home port, that would narrow it down, but I don't suppose such information will be forthcoming easily. Rama (talk) 18:28, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 3 October

Hi rama, I have just completed Robust (1782 ship). Could you please check if Demerliac has anything on a French privateer Liberty (or Liberte), of Bordeaux, or a slaver and possible letter of marque Patriote Soldat. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 02:19, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Hello! Ghastly ship we have there...

• Liberty: I have a Liberté, privateer from Bordeau, that could match the epoch, but I cannot guarantee that she in the one. Commissioned in February 1793 under Jacques Laventy with 16 to 20 guns. She was sold in La Guadeloupe in June 1793 by a Mister Mehy, and operated uner a Captain Le Bas until 1794, with 16 guns. (n°2341, p. 266)
• Patriote Soldat: I have a number of Patriote, one Soldat, but none seem to match the time of the encounter. Patriote Soldat is not listed either.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:28, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi Rama, Patriot Soldat was a slaver so no surprise that she is not listed. I will look more carefully at Liberte. Thanks for the help. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:37, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 7 October

Hi Rama, I have just completed Norfolk (1800 ship). She captured a privateer named Adolphe. Could you please check to see if Demerliac has anything? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:15, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

An interesting one that would warrant an article of its own right.

Adolphe, three-masted lugger built in Dieppe in 1803, 43 tons of load, displacement circa 70 tons fully loaded, 17.86m long (16.24 at the keel), 4.38m beam and 1.95 draft, pierced for 6 guns.

From November 1803 to some time in 1804, her master was Philippe-Antoine Nicolaï, with 40 men and 16 guns (14 3-pounders and 2 1-pounders). She did another cruise in 1804 under an unspecified captain. In February 1805, she cruised from Boulogne under Nicolas Fourmentin, and from February 1805 to February 1806, she did three cruises under Jacques-Oudard "Bucaille" Fourmentin, with 50 to 55 men and 14 guns. From February 1806 to some time in 1806, she cruised from Boulogne under Jean "Dejean" Fourmentin. In 1807 she was again under command from "Bucaille", and then cruised from Dunkirk under Jacques-François Leclerc, with 47 men and 14 guns. On 4 December 1807 she was captured by HMS Leda. (n°1836 and 1837, p.250 of 1800-1815).

I would be quite keen to seeing what happened to her in 1807. Apparently there is a model of Adolphe at Dieppe castel inventory number 967.17.1 ; 4141 (MD), Joconde ID 07120003021 (I checked but we do not seem to have a photograph; on the other hand we do have quite an elite team of Wikipedians in the region, I'll ask what they can do).

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:43, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Great find. I couldn't find out what happened to her. She does not appear in Lloyd's Register or the Register of Shipping. My guess would be that whoever bought her changed the name. Sorting that out would require searching in British archives, and hoping for luck. I will try and work up an article though in the hope that eventually someone will discover, serendipitously or deliberately, what happened. A photo, by the way would be marvelous. It adds gravitas and colour to what would otherwise be a bit stubby an article. I am going to have to sort out the discrepancy between the two captors, Norfolk and Leda, and the two capture dates, Jan 1807 and Dec 1807. It is possible that there were two Adolphes, perhaps because someone reused the name. Acad Ronin (talk) 23:54, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Looks like two different Adolphes. See: French privateer Adolphe. The photo at Dieppe looks good, but I wonder which vessel it is a model of. She seems to be pierced for only six guns. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:34, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

See: Adolphe (1807 privateer lugger). As soon as I can get to it I will work on the 1804 privateer lugger. Acad Ronin (talk) 01:51, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Splendid!

I'll send a mail to Dieppe to ask whether they know the exact date when the model was made (it is apparently a builder's model), and whether they are in position to provide a photograph under a Free licence. I have also asked the group of Wikipedians in Western France whether they can spare a bit of time, but Dieppe is a the limit of their range of action and there is always the risk that the model be in the reserves of the museum.

In the meantime, do you think that a line drawing of the elevation could be helpful?

I find this model very useful and even quite touching, in showing what tiny vessels were involved. She is not much larger than the biggest boats that a ship of the line would carry.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:25, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

A line drawing is welcome. It doesn't have the visual impact of the model, but it helps. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:24, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 13 October

Hi Rama, I have just completed HMS Morne Fortunee (1806). She was reportedly the French privateer Regulus, and during her service she also captured a French privateer named Luni. I have also completed HMS Morne Fortunee (1803) and HMS Morne Fortunee (1808), both of which were also ex-French privateers. This all took place in the Caribbean so Demerliac probably doesn't have anything, but if you could please check. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:04, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Hello, I will do so at the earliest convenience, probably tomorrow. Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:57, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

• Régulus: the only ship by that name in Dermliac is the 74-gun
• Luni: mentionned at page 337 as "a privateer vessel captured in May 1806 by the 12-gun HMS Morne Fortunée"
• Morne Fortunée / Joséphine (1803): I do not have any ship in the theatre that match the name Joséphine and epoch — two could have had but were based in Spain. Demerliac mentions a Morne Fortunée, a 6-gun 106-ton schooner built in Bermudes (19.96m x 6.41m), captured by the Royal Navy and brought into British service, wrecked on 6 December 1804 in the Carribean (p. 338)
• Morne Fortunée (1808)/ Joséphine: I do not have any ship in the theatre that match the name Joséphine and epoch — two could have had but were based in Spain. privateer 184-ton brig pierced for 14 but carrying only 5 guns, with 60 men. Captured by the 18-gun HMS Belette, brought in Royal Navy service and scrapped in 1813 at Antigoa (p. 338)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:13, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Looks like Demerliac was using British records here. Not surprising, as we have discovered, as the vessels were in the Caribbean. However, could you check for a Josephine in 1808 as that was the name of the vessel Belette captured, not the 1803 vessel. Acad Ronin (talk) 00:15, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I made a mistake while writing my report above, I did check for 1808 and not 1803 (re-checked this morning). About Demerliac using British records: my thoughts exactly! I would find is likely that the actual name of the privateer was indeed Joséphine and that she was renamed after her capture. Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:20, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 16 October

Hi Rama, I have finished Adolphe (1803 privateer lugger). I am pleased that I was able to add info beyond what we got from Demerliac and that we have a respectable article. It is too bad that I couldn't find any subsequent history. I still have three questions though: 1) Demerliac says she was pierced for 6 guns (and the model shows 6 guns), but all reports say 14 guns. 2) You give two numbers for Demerliac, №1836 and №1837. I have assumed that №1836 refers to this Adolpe and that №1837 applies to the 1807 Adolphe, but is that correct or is Demerliac confusing the two vessels? 3) Does he have anything on Racrocheuse? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:42, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Hello,

1) Demerliac speaks of three- and one-pounder guns, maybe most of them were swivel guns?

2) Yes exactly. Demerliac starts №1837 with "continuation of №1836".

3) Indeed he has! Raccrocheuse №2 or Grande Raccrocheuse: privateer built in Boulogne in 1804 and commissioned in Calais in October 1804. Cruised under Jacques Broquant with 56 men and 14 guns until captured off Dieppe on 10 December 1804 by HMS Favorite (p. 237, №1663)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:09, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi Rama, Well, well, well. We seem to be on a lucky streak. No mention of swivels, but certainly possible, at least for the 1-pounder. However, the pounds were probably French, so a French 3-pounder would be close to an English 4-pounder. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:23, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Done. Acad Ronin (talk) 20:35, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Demerliac request 19 October

Hi Rama, I have just finished Royal George (1803 ship). As HMS Bustard, in 1810 she captured a French privateer corvette named Minerve. Does Demerliac have anything on Minerve? Fingers crossed that our luck holds. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:46, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Hello, and my apologies for the belated reply. She is mentioned as a "2-gun, 60-man privateer captured circa August 1810 by HMS Bustard", so I think Demerliac was relying on British sources that you already have. (p.338 of 1800-1815) Rama (talk) 18:54, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Too bad, but not unusual. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:48, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Babiole

Hi Rama, Great stuff. I particularly like the info on the cargoes of the vessels she captured. One of my more official interests is international trade, and seeing what commodities traded is illuminating. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 13:23, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Exactly what I was thinking! Especially since trading gun shots to capture a few tons of dried fruits strikes me as a very harsh existence. Rama (talk) 14:03, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the info re Demerliac. As for captured cargoes, I wish I knew what "Macaron" were. I could figure the other cargoes out, but the obvious answer for macaron is improbable. I wonder if earlier macaron was a generic term for round biscuits, rather than the modern patisserie.Acad Ronin (talk) 16:51, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Oh yes, it would be this sort File:Macaron.jpg, not the modern thing. Rama (talk) 17:03, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

I have made the link to the WP article, but am still a little unsure. Would something even like the early macron have survived a sea voyage from the Med to London while packed in barrels? Acad Ronin (talk) 17:18, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

some variants are rather on the hard side for biscuit, but in many cases the terms used to describe the cargo at quite technical and specific, and sometimes also a bit old usage. I hope I am not making a gross misinterpretation. Rama (talk) 17:28, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

As an eventualist, I figure that if we are wrong, at some point in the future someone will correct us. In the meantime, as macaron apparently were invented only in 1792, I suspect there was quite a bit of experimentation and variation.Acad Ronin (talk) 18:38, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

On a slightly different topic, is there any French equivalent of Lloyd's Register for our period? I would like to be able to figure out what happened to some of the captured British vessels, and the origins of some of the French vessels that were captured. I haven't found anything, unfortunately. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:38, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

From what I have found from a causal research, I am afraid that nothing of the sort existed at the time, and that the very Lloyd's Register was later hired to extend its services to France. If that is indeed the case, the only resources at hand would be archives of the various ports and companies, later compiled in books of which the Demerliac at the latest installment. But I will keep the question in mind and be on the lookout for any better clue. Cheers! Rama (talk) 11:54, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

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Nomination of Cocco for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Cocco is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cocco until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. -- NoCOBOL (talk) 13:21, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:BlueHelmet

Template:BlueHelmet has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. ^{[Username Needed]} 11:54, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 9 Feb 2019

Hi Rama, I have just finished HMS Starling. Does Demerliac have anything on the French privateer Phoebe, of four guns? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:49, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

Yes, Phoebé, a privateer cutter commissioned in Cherbourg in 1800, Guillaume Mosquerer, master. Another cruise under François Folliot in 1800. Departed in May or June 1803 with 28 men and 4 guns, captured by Hydra on 25 June. (n°1930, p. 257)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:45, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I have implemented the info on the Starling article and will add it to the Hydra article too. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:14, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:BlueHelmet

Template:BlueHelmet has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. ^{[Username Needed]} 14:49, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 14 February 2019

Hi Rama, an older article, but does Demerliac have anything about a French privateer named Vengeance that captured Zephyr (1790 ship)? Thanks and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:08, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

seeing the description of the ship, this is in all likelihood one of the privateers corvettes that Bordeaux was mass-producing at the time. I have one ship of the sort active in the years that interest us:

Vengeance, 300-ton, 20-gun privateer corvette commissioned in Bordeaux in October 1797. First cruise from October 1797. Second cruise from circa August 1798 to circa February 1799 under a Captain Limousin, with 5 officers and 74 men. Second cruise in 1800 under a Captain Grandier. She might have been renamed to Vénus in 1800. Captured by HMS Fishgard and taken into British service as HMS Scout. N°2373, p.270.

I am not sure this is our ship, but the others of that name (or Vengeur) that were active at the time square even less than this one, so this is the less unlikely, even though the description of the end of her career makes me suspect confusion with other ships. Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:23, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I have implemented the first part. The Vengeance, which became Venus, was launched in 1794 and renamed Venus in 1795. (see: French corvette Vénus (1794)). It is certain that Demerliac's Vengeance is not the Venus that became Scout. Does the 1800-1815 Demerliac book have anything on our Vengeance? I wonder what became of her. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:29, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

No, I have the impression that Demerliac mixes the two Vengeance; he attributes the late career of Vengeance (1794) to that of Vengeance (1799). Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:16, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

I thought that that might be the case. Too bad. Thanks for looking. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:18, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 4 March 2019

Hi Rama, I have just finished HMS Vulture (1803). On 11 November 1807 Vulture was in company or in sight when HMS Aimable captured the French 16-privateer Décidée. Any info? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:07, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

No, sorry: there are a few Décidée and Décidé, but none that match this date. Better luck next time hopefully! Rama (talk) 06:02, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:22, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Question

Hello Rama, I was wondering if you had any information regarding the court martial of General Louis-François Jeannet and Maurice-Henri Bresseau following their failed invasion of Curacao in 1800. A long time ago i had stumbled across an index entry for the court martial records and was wondering if you knew anything about it or how to access such records. Regards, XavierGreen (talk) 16:04, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

There are allusions to it at these locations: [1] [2]. CAOM stands for "Centre des Archives d'Outre-Mer", the forerunner of the Archives Nationales d'Outre-mer. We can find these documents from the online index [3]. The ones you are looking for seem not to be available online, but it is possible to request photographs to be made, for a small fee [4]. Do let me know if you need help with French terminology.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:29, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you very much!XavierGreen (talk) 17:27, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 10 March 2019

Hi Rama, I have just posted the article Windsor Castle (1804 packet ship). She captured the French privateer Jeune Richard in a notable singe-ship action. I was hoping that Demerliac might have something about Jeune Richard. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:53, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello, nothing on this one, quite surprisingly. Sorry! Rama (talk) 17:22, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 14 March 2019

Hi Rama, I have just finished HMS Phosphorus (1804). In 1806 she repelled an attack in the Channel by the privateer lugger Elize. Does Demerliac have anything? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:09, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

It would probably be spelled Élise, but I have nothing matching the date, sorry. Rama (talk) 17:24, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 17 March 2019

Hi Rama, I have just finished HMS Dove (1805). On 5 August 1805 a 22-gun French sloop named Gloire captured her. There was a 44-gun frigate named Gloire, but the reports of the capture are not consistent with the captor being the frigate, and there does not seem to have been any French Navy sloop but that name. That suggests that Gloire was a privateer. I hope that Demerliac can shed some light on this. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:21, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Nothing there either. Darn, we were not in luck today. I hope that fortune will compensate with an interesting unit that would warrant her own article, next time! I hope that this does not affect your spirits and that you keep up your excellent work! Rama (talk) 17:26, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for trying. Jeune Richard would have been good because she had some success as a privateer, and Gloire would have been good because all the books assume she was French Navy. All we can hope is for better luck next time, plus perhaps the occasional serendipitous discovery. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:16, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

I checked that too, there were a small number of ships named Gloire that were corvettes or galleys, but none matches the dates. It is a bit weird since she seems to have been a rather large unit. Better chance next time hopefully! Rama (talk) 18:22, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 4 April 2019

Hi Rama, I have just finished Minerva (1805 whaler), which is the former letter-of-marque Minerve. Does Demerliac have anything on Minerve? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:02, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

Yes, I think this is the n°2262, p. 284: a corvette-sized 322-ton privateer from Bordeaux, armed with 18 8-pounders. First cruise in 1800 under Eugène Langlois, then another cruise in August 1804 as she was serving as an armed merchantman, with a 85-man crew. She is probably the ship captured in the Channel in February 1805.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:11, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I have inserted the info. This will justify my looking for traces of her between 1800 and 1804. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:41, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Heavy.com

Appreciate you trying to source facts for the Katie Bouman bio, but heavy.com is a garbage clickbait site. I've posted on the reliable sources noticeboard to confirm that I'm not the only one who feels that way. [5]. Cheers, OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 19:28, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it was sourcing the Wikidata property but it contradicted the date given by this other source [6] (I am not quite sure what to make out of this one either (they got her PhD advisor wrong))

By the way, we might consider feeding the infobox from Wikidata, there is much duplicated information as it is now. Rama (talk) 19:31, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Yeesh, that source looks a bit dicey too. (How did they get her weight? A carnival consultant?) I'm ashamed to admit that I'm not familiar with the process of connecting the wikidata directly to the infobox (or did you just mean manually transcribing it?) OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 19:34, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Oh no, I mean using a template {{Infobox person/Wikidata}}. What we might want to add or override we can specify here, bust what Wikidata has will be put here by default. Rama (talk) 19:41, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 11 April 2019

Hi Rama, I have just completed Ariadne (1795 ship). The French privateer Guadeloupienne captured her in 1806. This occurred in the WIndies, so Demerliac probably has little or nothing on the privateer, but if you could check that would be helpful. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:51, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

No Guadeloupéenne matching these dates, sorry. Rama (talk) 18:51, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. It was a long shot. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:39, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 17 April 2019

Hi Rama, here's another one. I have just finished Horatio (1800 ship). On 30 December 1805 HMS Narcissus recaptured Horatio, and captured the French privateer brig Prudent, of 12 guns and 70 men. The action took place off the Liberian coast. Does Demerliac have anything on Prudent? Thanks for the help, regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:39, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello, and my apologies for the late answer. She is mentionned as Prudente (feminine form) in Demerliac, p.339. This is the section for unnumbered ships on which little is known, and Demerliac merely repeats what you have written above. He probably used the same sources as you. Rama (talk) 18:18, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

No surprise. At least I can cite Demerliac for the French spelling.

Demerliac request 21 April 2019

Hi Rama, on 3 March 1796 HMS Cleopatra (1779) captured a French privateer named Aurore or Aurora. On 22 April she captured another Aurore. The London Gazette describes the first as a privateer. I am trying to write up an Aurora that disappears from Lloyd's Register between 1795 and 1797, and wonder if one of the French vessels was her. (There was a West Indiaman named Aurora that was captured in 1795.)

* Aurore (n°1448, p.193): ship of unspecified type with 10 guns, under a Captain Beaut. Commissioned in early 1796, captured by HMS Cleopatra in March 1796.

Sadly, the other Aurore are not a match. Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:23, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

I can add the commissioning info to the Cleopatra article at least.

Demerliac request 24 April 2019

Hi Rama, I have just put up Harpooner (1771 ship). In 1780 two French privateers captured her, I think in the Channel or nearby, and I wonder if Demerliac has anything. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 14:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, nothing close. Demerliac is unfortunately often quiet on prizes, it would be useful to see ships in their various careers, but it does not occur often. Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:26, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

That was a particularly long shot, so no surprise.

Thanks for looking all this up. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:43, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Always a pleasure, looking forwards to our next adventure in naval sleuthing! Rama (talk) 20:44, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Just to confirm, when you looked up Harpooner you did check to see if Demerliac had anything about any privateers named Marquis of Seignety, of Dunkirk, Comptesse of Buzanisis, Lux, master, and Marques de Seiguley? The first and third may have been the same vessel. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:52, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

sorry, I have overlooked them.

• I have a Marquis de Seignelay, form Le Havre (n°1770, p. 181), a 280-ton privateer under François Cottin, with 160 men, 20 8-pounder guns and 8 swivel guns. Between 1779 and December 1790, she captured 40 ships totaling 117 guns and 418 prisoners. She was then captured by a ship of the line and a frigate of the Royal Navy, and recommissioned as a naval sloop. She was eventually sold in March 1786.
• I think you want the Comtesse de Buzençois, a privateer active in November and December 1790 under André Lux (n°1775, p.182). She was captured by the British in December 1790 and taken to Southampton. No mention is made of her being the former Harpooner, but this is not at all unlikely.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:08, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Excellent. I have implemented the data. Marquis de Seignelay became HMS Marquis de Seignelay, but although she appears in the National Maritime Museum's database she does not appear in Winfield. I will have to track down some other sources, but for now I am delighted that we have at least this much. Many thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:11, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi Rama, I have created HMS Marquis de Seignelay. If you are aware of anything in French sources about her brief but successful career as a privateer please let me know. In the meantime, a couple more pieces of the puzzle have been put together with your help. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 08:55, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Refactoring the arbitration case pages

Hi Rama. Please do not refactor any pages involved in the open arbitration case. An arbitrator or the clerk team will handle all required re-organisation, however uncontentious it may seem. If we overlook moving or changing a comment needing it, you may contact the clerks who I am sure you will agree have been particularly attentive to these case pages. Thank you. AGK ■ 09:06, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. Rama (talk) 12:03, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 20 May 2019

Hi Rama, you will have seen, I hope, my response on my talk page to your request re the French frigates.

I have just finished Cicero (1796 ship), which the French privateer Democrat (12 guns and 100 men), had captured in February 1799 near Marie-Galante. Does Demerliac have anything re Democrat? Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 09:39, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

Démocrate (diacritic), 1797/1799, n°2636 privateer known to have been active off Saint-Domingue in January 1797. A Démocrate was operating off Algesiras in July 1799, and is thought to be the same ship. She would have had 80 men and 10 guns. Captured in September 1799 in the Caribbean by HMS Amphitrite. I'll double-check the page number as soon as possible. Cheers! Rama (talk) 10:28, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

The capture by HMS Amphitrite occurred on 31 May 1799, suggesting that the Algesiras Démocrate was another vessel. The references to a capture of a Democrat in October I am still trying to pin down. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 13:09, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

I am afraid she is the only Démocrate in Demerliac's 1792-1799 and 1800-1815, apart from the 74-gun Jupiter, which bore the name for a few days in May 1795, and which would not be mistaken for a 12-gun privateer. Cheers! Rama (talk) 14:01, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Interesting. The daters and the Algeciras Démocrate may just have to remain open puzzles for the time being. When you have the Demerliac page number please let me know and I will add it to the Cicero article. Thanks and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 14:14, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Named in a proposed decision

Hi Rama, in the open Rama arbitration case, a remedy or finding of fact has been proposed which relates to you. Specifically, an arbitrator has proposed that you be desysopped and admonished Please review this decision and draw the arbitrators' attention to any relevant material or statements. Comments may be brought to the attention of the committee on the proposed decision talk page. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 19:19, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 10 June 2019

Hi Rama, My wife and I have just changed our city of residence and that has interfered with my research. Also, I didn't want to bother you while the brouhaha with WP was ongoing. Now I am starting to return to the task, at least until next week when we will go on vacation.

I have been editing Mary Ann. In November 1801 the French privateer Brilliant captured her in the West Indies. Does Demerliac have any info on Brilliant? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:50, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Hello, sorry, no Brillant nor Brillante (no second "i" in French) matching these circumstances. Better luck next time I hope! Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:20, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. Not a surprise as she would have been operating out of Guadeloupe, or the like.Acad Ronin (talk)

Demerliac request 13 June 2019

Hired armed cutter Lurcher was involved in the capture of Aimable Victoire, and the destruction of Réolaise. Aimable Victoire was a privateer and Demerliac should have something on her. Réolaise was a French warship but ex-British and possibly ex-privateer, and I am curious if Demerliac has anything on her. I am particularly interested in figuring out what British vessel she was. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:46, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Hello!

• I think this is Aimable Victor (n°2153, p.251), a privateer active in the Channel from 1798. She had 86 men and 16 guns. Demerliac credits her capture to HMS Triton.
• There was enough about Réolaise to warrant a short article, so I did just that. But I am afraid none of my source give her previous name.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:37, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the Lurcher/Aimable Victor info. Also, I did a little tidying on Reolaise. I looked to see if I could find anything more on her, but I couldn't. Still, a good day. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:54, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! I'll have a look at Troude's account, too, to see whether I can find the names for the British ships, other escorts on the French side, and if there are more details on the action of 11 August 1797. Cheers! Rama (talk) 04:35, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 20 July 2019

Hi Rama, I have just been tidying up HMS Kangaroo (1795) and saw the names of five privateers. All the captures took place in the Channel, so we may have a shot: Sophie, Surprise, Telegraph, Bellegrande, and Grand Decide. Thanks and cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:28, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

• Sophie: no privateer matching these dates (two naval ships but they are clearly not our subject)
• Surprise (n°3046, p.319): privateer commissioned in 1797 from an unknown homeport, cruise from June 1797 with 8 guns and 48 men. Captured by HMS Kangaroo on 22 June.
• Télégraphe (n°2126, p.249): 136-ton privateer from Saint-Malo, commissioned in 1799 or 1800 under a Captain N. Guillemin, 14 guns and between 78 and 91 men. Captured by HMS Kangaroo in March 1800.
• Baalgade (mistakenly spelled "Bellegarde" in some documents, n°2101, p.247): 166-ton privateer from Saint-Malo commissioned in February 1798. First cruise under a Captain P. Kerpoisson with 69 men from February, and another from November. Third cruise from March 1800 under F. Leconte, with 115 men and 14 guns. A Bellegarde reported captured by HMS Phoebe in March is in all likelihood Baalgade.
• Grand Décidé (n°2407, p.273), privateer from Bordeaux commissioned in February 1799 under Duchêne, also spelled Duchesne-Lasalle (who went by the nickname of "Black Privateer"), with 220 men and 22 guns.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 07:11, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Excellent results; four out of five. I have added the info both to Kangaroo and to Phoebe. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:49, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I was quite happy with today's outcome, may it herald the success of our future inquiries! Cheers! Rama (talk) 11:56, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Attentes moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Attentes, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. DGG ( talk ) 01:26, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

"incubate the article with minimal disruption" ? Rama (talk) 06:28, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/attente Acad Ronin (talk) 12:06, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 21 July 2019

Hi Rama, I was looking at the List of ships named Oracabessa and noticed that a French privateer had captured and burnt Orakabeza. Does our friend have anything on the privateer? This happened off the US coast so it is unlikely, but it is worth a look. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:36, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Without a clue as to the name of the privateer, I fear it will be difficult to find. Rama (talk) 18:05, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

I hope that someday someone will prepare an ebook of the Demerliac volumes. That would make searching easier. (Apparently there are now ebook versions of the Winfield volumes of the Royal Navy. If you have bought the hard copy you get a discounted price on the ebook.)Acad Ronin (talk) 00:35, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac requests 1 September 2019

Hi Rama, two requests.

• 1) I was fiddling with HMS Pike (1804) and wondered if Demerliac could settle which French privateer captured her. Also, I can't find anything in Winfield and Roberts (2014) on her so while she was in French hands she didn't serve in the French navy. I wonder if Demerliac has anything on her, perhaps as Brochet?
• 2) I have created the shipindex page Sesostris (ship) in which I mention the paddle aviso Sesostris for which you have photos of a model. Could you make a small article on her? If you do, I could add in the Winfield and Roberts info if they have anything that Roche or Demerliac don't. She is not a major vessel, but your photos are lovely and deserve a setting.
• Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:04, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

I will be unavailable for a few days but I will come back to this as soon as possible. Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:57, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Hello @Acad Ronin:,

I am afraid I have nothing of either a privateer Impérial in 1807, not a Brochet.

Murat in mentioned at page 338 as a 16-gun privateer operating in the Caribbean in April 1807 and that the British incorrectly called Marat.

I will draft something at French aviso Sésostris (1852), and thank you for your kind appreciation of my images.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:08, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for trying, and good luck with Sesostris. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:38, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request

Hi Rama, I have just put up Cornish Hero (1797 ship). Could you please look at her and at Russian frigate Liogkii. I am interested in any mention of Corcyre or Corcyra. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 02:02, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

I added small details and exact references to the articles. I also created French ship Corcyre to bind them all, albeit not in darkness.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:16, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Hi Rama, thanks for adding the info and for creating the ship page. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 08:37, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

• can I just say I enjoy watching this work. keep it up. –xeno^talk 20:51, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words, Xeno, and thank you Acad Ronin for the stimulating questions, as always! Rama (talk) 10:06, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 15 November 2019

Hi Rama, here's an interesting one: HMS Barracouta (1782). I have three questions that I hope Demerliac or Roche can help with. 1} Do we know anything about the French privateer Passe Partout? 2) What is the name of the French frigate that captured Thought? 3) Is there anything on Pensee/Montagne/Pensee/Vedette? There is a Montagne cutter in the Fonds Marine, and also a corvette Vedette, but unfortunately the French navy had no qualms about having several vessels sharing a name and I don't think the ones in the Fonds are mine, but I am just not sure. Good luck and thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:19, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Hello, indeed an interesting career!

1) Yes, Demerliac lists her as n°2342, p.267: a privateer from Bordeaux commissioned in June 1793, with 120 men and 16 guns. Captured by Thought in July 1793.

2) I was not able to find the frigate, sorry

3) I have added a few things from Roche to the article. Curiously Demerliac does not seem to list her.

Thank you and cheers! Rama (talk) 10:51, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I was wondering about the capture of Lottery. I will now have to go back to the Fonds and see what they have. The Passe Partout info is great too. Too bad we can't find out Thought's captor. Perhaps that will turn up one day. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:55, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Ah, I was sure that Lottery would have your spelling rather than Lotterie as given in France sources. Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:20, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Battle of Tamatave

Battle of tamatave

Hi Rama, I believe it was you, who identified the rightmost ship as HMS Madagascar (1811). Where did that information come from as I would like to identify the others in sequence. Broichmore (talk) 07:13, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

From the narrative of the battle, we know that the engraving is depicting the beginning of the engagement, with both squadrons still forming a battle line. We know that the French line consisted in Clorinde leading, Renommée in the middle and Néréide (later HMS Madagascar) in the rear. That allows immediate identification of the French ships. There is an error, of course: on the image, Néréide/Madagascar would be the leftmost ship, not the rightmost. I annotated the engraving with the French ships, but I left the British for the moment since I am not quite completely certain of the order of the British line.

I believe that the British line consisted in HMS Astrea leading, Phoebe next and Galatea in the rear. Racehorse, a 18-gun brig-sloop, is a much smaller, two-masted ship, and I believe is not featured on the engraving.

I recreated a schematic of the positions of the ships at a later stage of the Battle of Tamatave from Roger Lepelley's La fin d'un Empire, which you can see at File:Battle of Madagascar (1811).svg.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 09:46, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Broichmore (talk) 08:36, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

HMS Galatea

We have the same headline image here for HMS Galatea (1794) and HMS Galatea (1810), both cant be right. I'm leaning towards saying it's the 1794 ship; 32 guns as opposed to 36. I'm also thinking that the black and white photo in Galatea (1794) is in fact the 1810 ship. Meanwhile we doh ave drawings for the Galatea 1794 on commons. I have put on on the Wiki page for comparison. What are your thoughts?. Broichmore (talk) 08:36, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Hello, and thank you for an interesting case

The black and white image at File:HMS Galatea (black and white).jpg is definitely older than the 1810s: the first known photograph is from 1826. I think this is more probably an image of HMS Galatea (1859), I think I can spot a chimney just at the front of the mast of the closest ship, and you can definitely see two of the other one.

As for the painting, this is a tough one, but I would tend to agree with you: the ship we see at File:HMS Galatea.jpg seems to have 13 gunports on one side of her battery, just like what we see on the elevation plan at here and there; while on clear portraits of the sisterships of the 1810 ship, we can spot 14 (File:Escape of HMS Belvidera, 23 June 1812 RMG BHC0598.tiff, File:Loss of the Apollo frigate.jpg) or 15 gunports (File:HMS Owen Glendower.jpg, File:BLONDE 1819 RMG J5540.png)

I hope this helps. Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:19, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 18 November 2019

HI Rama, I have just put up Sarah Ann (1799 ship). Th French privateer Berceau captured her in the Caribbean. It's not in the Channel, but does Demerliac have anything? Thanks for looking, regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:30, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Just saw that Berceau was possibly Berceau, though the guns don't match and the news item calls her a privateer, not a national ship. Also, as you know, French Navy vessels rarely took merchant prizes. Was there a privateer Berceau as well as a naval Berceau? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 13:12, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

Demerliac does not list any other Berceau than the corvette, in neither 1792-1799 nor 1800-1815.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:52, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the fast response. Two more pieces of the big puzzle fitted together. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:51, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

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Demerliac request 5 December 2019

Hi Rama, I have just created Rachael (1801 ship). When you have the time, could you please check to see if Demerliac has anything on a privateer named Vaillant. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:16, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

Yes, again one of these privateer corvettes that Bordeaux was spamming at the time.

Vaillant (n°2276, p.285), privateer corvette built from year 1800 in Bordeaux and commissioned in January 1801. 37.80 metre long, beam 10.22 metres, 5.03-metre draught and 400 tons. First cruise under Alexandre Etienne with 120 men and 22 guns (4 8-pounder guns and 18 18-pounder carronades). Second cruise in 1802-1802 under Captain Destebetcho; From August to December 1803, again under Alexandre Etienne with 272 men and 28 guns (22 18-pounder guns (???), 4 4-pounder guns and 2 18-pounder carronades). Last cruise under Dettebecho (?) the Elder with 221 men and 30 guns (22 18-pounder guns (???), 6 4-pounders and 2 18-pounder carronades). Captured by HMS Loire on 26 June 1805 (rather surprised not to find a mention in our article on Loire, she is at [7] for instance), brought in Royal Navy service as the 6th-rate HMS Barbette, of 605 tons, 124' x 33'6" x 16'6" in British measurements, with 170 men and 30 guns (22 9-pounders and 8 18-pounder carronades), BU in May 1811.

I checked for the sake of complitude, but Demerliac makes no mention of Rachael.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:13, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi Rama, Excellent. I have enough to create a small/stuby article about her even though her RN career was nil. I think the RN bought her in because she was too large to be readily saleable, but the RN depended on prize money to motivate its commanders. Also, I am not surprised that our article on Loire doesn't have her. First, Vaillant's capture didn't result in a letter in the London Gazette. Second, many of our articles on the 6th rates and above are stubs that people created in WP early days. I try to stay with the lesser vessels and sometimes add in relevant material to those articles when I can, although that makes those articles look a bit haphazard. Anyway, any thanks Acad Ronin (talk) 02:00, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

The article Vaillant now exists. I found the capture letter under the name Valiant. I have added the info to HMS Loire, Melampus, and Brilliant. Thanks for the help. Acad Ronin (talk) 04:27, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Splendid, many thanks! One again an article links many others, like beams in a wooden hull, I always find this deeply satisfying and quite moving. On to the next such satisfaction! Rama (talk) 09:22, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 12 December 2019

Hi Rama, here is a big one. I have just posted HMS Royalist (1807). She captured many French privateers, especially in the Channel, so we have a good shot at Demerliac being able to add something. Thanks for the help, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:48, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

• Providence of 1807 (n°2542, p.305): privateer schooner form Genoa, commissioned at an unknown date. Might be the one captured by HMS Astraea on 14 February 1807.
• Princesse or Princesse de Bologne Princesse de Boulogne (n° 1758, p.244): privateer commissioned at Boulogne in 1807, under Jacques Broquant. Another cruise from Dunkirk from March 1808 under a Captain Altazin. Another cruise from Dieppe in September 1808, and another from Calais in December 1808.
• Grand Napoléon (n°1775, p.246): privateer from Boulogne, purchased for 25 000 francs from a Mr. Foube from Calais, commissioned in September 1808. Under Pierre-Marie Wasselin with 68 men from September 1808 to February 1809, and under Antoine Huret from June 1809 to November 1809, with 55 men.
• Heureuse Étoile (unnumbered, p.336): privateer with 15 men and two guns, captured by HMS Royalist around November 1809
• Bon Marcel (n°1786, p.247): privateer lugger from Boulogne, commissioned in 1809. 120 tonnes, 20.40 metres long (18.0 at the keel), 5.25m wide, draught 2.44m. Cruised under Denis-Guillaume La Salle with 60 men and 16 guns. Captured by HMS Royalist in December 1809, recommissioned in the Royal Navy as HMS Defender with 40 men and 8 12-pounder carronades, sold in September 1814. Mistakenly called Beau Marseille or Bonne Marseille by the British. Plans published in David Lyon' sThe Sailing Navy List p. 248
• François (n°1793, p.247): privateer from Boulogne commissioned in September 1809 under François-Jean-Nicolas Delpierre with 60 men and 14 guns. Captured on 31 December 1809 by HMS Royalist
• Prince Eugène (n°1799, p.248): no connection. Privateer lugger from Boulogne, commissioned in September 1809 under a J-B Fournier, with 45 to 55 men and 14 guns totalling 28 pounds of shot. Captured by HMS Royalist on 25 February 1810.
• Roi de Naples (n°1810, p.248): Privateer lugger from Boulogne commissioned in July 1810 under Denis-Guillaume Lasalle. Captured by HMS Royalist on 5 November 1811 (sic).
• Aventurière (unnumbered, p.333): privateer lugger with 50 men and 14 guns, captured by HMS Royalist on 8 December 1810
• Braconnier (n°1877, p.253): privateer from Saint-Valéry en Caux, commissioned in January 1810 by Frédéric Follin with 50 men
• Rôdeur (n°2325, p.289): privateer from Bordeaux commissioned in 1809 under a Captain Marrauli with 102 men. Another cruise under a Captain Lagarigue from 1810 until February 1811.

Do let me know if I missed anything that could be in Demerliac.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 11:04, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi Rama, excellent, excellent results. We are fortunate that Royalist operated in the Channel. Also, it is clear once again that Demerliac also used the London Gazette as one of his sources. I have implemented your findings, but apologies, we are still missing Furet and Rusé.

• Bon Marcel - turns out we already did her some time ago. We have a HMS Defender article. I do so many that unfortunately I forget.
• Prince Eugène - is that 28 pounds for all guns, or just a broadside? 2-pounders is possible, but 4-pounders would be more normal I would think.
• Roi de Naples - I checked the year. Demerliac is a year too late.
• Rôdeur - Does Demerliac have other Rôdeurs? Lloyd's List has a Rôdeur operating from 1807 on. There is also a Rôdeur in 1813 and 1814, one out of Nantz and the other supposedly American, but American records do not mention her. According to the London Gazette the Royal Navy also captured a couple of others. I should probably do a small article on the Rôdeurs if we can find out more. Any info on whether they are luggers or brigs could be helpful in sorting things out.

All-in-all, great stuff. Many thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 13:01, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Hello, thanks for reminding me!

• Furet (n°1688, p.239): privateer lugger from Calais, commissioned in August 1810 under Thomas (Tom?) Souville with 56 men and 14 guns.
• Rusé (n°1825, p.250): privateer lugger form Boulogne commissioned in 1812.
• Prince Eugène: my understanding is that is would be the total weight of both broadsides. I'd expect a heteroclite assortment of swivel guns completing a few larger pieces up to 4-pounders. Some swivel guns were half-pounders.
• Rôdeur: yes, is you surely have gathered, it means "lurker", so it's a popular name for privateers. There are 10 of them in 1800-1815:
  • Rôdeur (n°1761, p.245): privateer from Boulogne commissioned in March 1807. First cruise under François Le Fort with 54 men and 24 guns (14 4-pounders and 10 three-pounders) from March 1807 to later in 1807; second with Jean-Gabriel Huret from December 1807 to November 1808; third under Joseph Huret from 1809 to November 1809. Captured on 9 December 1809.
  • Rôdeur (n°1809, p.248): Privateer from Boulogne, commissioned under a Captain Huret in March 1810, first cruise from March to May 1810.
  • Rôdeur (n°2325, p.289): The one above
  • Rôdeur (n°2401, p.295): privateer from Bayonne, commissioned in June 1813
  • Rôdeur (n°1671, p.238): privateer from Calais commissioned in February 1807 under Captain Fourmentin. First cruise under Fourmentin from February 1807 to May 1807. Second under Jacques Sauvage of Boulogne from September 1808 to December 1809. Captured on 9 December 1809. Demerliac notes that HMS Seine captured a privateer brig on 25 October 1809.
  • Rôdeur (n°1857, p.252): privateer from Dieppe commissioned in August 1809 under Louis Piquendaire, captured by the British in 1810 (around June)
  • Rôdeur (n°2123, p.273): privateer from Saint-Malo, commissioned in October 1813 under Benjamin Dupont with 85 men and 8 guns. Returned to Saint-Malo on 9 April 1814.
  • Rôdeur (n°1915, p.256): privateer from Saint-Vaast La Hougue commissioned in March 1807
  • Rôdeur (n°2329, p.289): privateer from Bordeaux commissioned in 1810 under a P.A. Marraud with 60 men and 14 guns. Captured by HMS Royalist on 19 December 1811 (I think she should replace n°2325 in the article)
  • Rôdeur (unnumbered, p.339): privateer active in the North Sea from June 1811 to 1812

Demerliac lists n°2329 as Rôdeur n°2, which is why she had escaped my notice before. Good thing you asked!

Cheers! Rama (talk) 15:18, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for all this and for correcting Royalist and Ripon. All these Rôdeurs will enable me to create nice shipindex article that, through their captors, will link to other articles. Despite the number of captures the Rôdeurs themselves made, I am not sure we have enough for an article on any one of them in particular. We'll see what happens as I work through the mist. Also, I have another, shorter, Demerliac request coming up. The WP who paid for the books for you certainly are getting their money's worth. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:09, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Nothing is ever simple. Does Demerliac have anything on a Grand Rodeur or a Petit Rodeur? Also, are there any signs that around 1809/1810 there were two Captains named Huret. Acad Ronin (talk) 02:25, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

"Huret" is a rather common name (a François-Augustin Huret was a local hero in Boulogne in 1831), and there are definitely a Jean-Gabriel Huret and a Joseph Huret above. It's not clear whether the captain Huret is one of those or a third person.

Clever idea about the Grand and Petit rôdeur, these were indeed the way they would disambiguate homonymous ships at the time.

• Grand Rôdeur (n°1794, p.247): privateer from Boulogne, commissioned in November 1809 under Jean-Gabriel Huret with 90 men and 16 guns, captured by HMS Redpole the same month.
• Petit Rôdeur (n°1816, p.249): privateer from Boulogne commissioned in September 1811 under Jean-Gabriel Huret.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:45, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

PS: in volume 5 of Chroniques de la Marine française, Lecomte mentions the Rôdeur from Bordeaux (I assume n°2329) as "amongst the most intrepid and fortunate privateers to sail the ocean in this era" ("parmi les plus intrépides et les plus heureux corsaires qui à cette époque sillonnaient l'Océan"). Rama (talk) 08:49, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Rama. This helps. I see that Jean-Gabriel Huret went from Rôdeur to Grand Rôdeur and then Petit Rôdeur; I wonder if one or the other of these last two vessel names was more of a nickname than a formal name. I still have a bit of a puzzle. Demerliac had n°1761 captured on 9 December 1809, but that is the day that Redpole captured Grand Rôdeur. Is there anything in Demerliac to suggest that n°1761 was a brig/bric? That would link her capture to HMS Seine. Also, although I have lots of items in Lloyd's List of captures by a Rôdeur, there is too little info to assign them to particular captors. Lastly, do you have a fuller cite to the Lecomte book? I could add in the quote as a footnote in the Royalist article. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:42, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Eugene-Louis Boudin in 1878 painted a picture "The Capture of Petit-Rodeur". Unfortunately I don't have anything indicating a Napoleonic Wars engagement involving a Petit Rodeur. Any info in Francophone sources? Acad Ronin (talk) 19:57, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Hello,

I don't know how official these adjectives added to disambiguate ships were, especially for privateers. In any case, for small ships and privateers, there would have been some leeway in this respect. It is very possible that a Petit Rôdeur would have appeared as Rôdeur.

I'll double-check as to whether n°1761 was a brig; normally I am cautious to write this down as it is an important feature. Many ships from Boulogne were cutters, but at 24 small guns, a brig seems quite possible.

The mention in Lecomte is at page 261 (p. 271 of the PDF file) in Lecomte, Jules (1836). Chroniques de la marine française: de 1789 à 1830, d'après les documents officiels (in French). Vol. 5. H. Souverain.

Nice catch for the painting by Boudin! I have uploaded it on Commons at File:Capture of the Petit-Rodeur by Eugene Boudin.jpg. There is a book, Eugène Boudin, sa vie et son Oeuvre giving a few details about the genesis of the painting, at pages 84-85 of [8]: the privateer would have been captured in 1811 by two British brigs. A French sailor drew the scene while in captivity, and his grand-son later asked Boudin to execute the painting from this drawing. I cannot help noticing that the initial of the family name of that grand-son is H, like it would be for "Huret".

This site about from Cassel people killed in combat [9] mentions one Ignace-Joseph Goubain, master gunner on Petit Rôdeur, who died at sea on 20 December 1811. This would put the date of the battle on this day or shortly before.

This is way cool. The capture on 19/20 Dec 1811 was the Royalist capture. That suggests that that Rodeur and the Petit Rodeur of the painting were the same vessel, and possibly the same Petit Rodeur that Demerliac lists. I will have to look at this very carefully when I am less sleepy. I will add the painting to the Royalist article. But if the Rodeur Royalist captured is Petit Rodeur but not №2329, then which vessel does the Lecomte quote refer to? Lots of threads to unravel.

I'll keep up the sleuthing and see whether something turns up. Cheers! Rama (talk) 23:13, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

PS: We have a few Huret at [10]:

• Antoine Huret, active from Calais and Boulogne in 1795/1815 on Liberté and Grand Napoléon.
• Joseph Huret, active from Calais and Boulogne in 1795/1815 on Tonnerre, Rôdeur, Revanche, Petit rôdeur
• Jean Augustin Huret, active from Boulogne in 1795/1815 on Surveillante, Requin, Diable volant, Furet N°1, Requin, Tonnerre, Industrie, Furet N°3, Espiégle, Sophie, Vengeur N°2, Grand Napoléon and Prosper (1805)
• Jean Gabriel Huret, active from Calais, Boulogne and Dieppe in 1795/1815 on Tempête Républicaine, Prosper, Rôdeur, Grand rôdeur, Petit Rodeur (1811), Revanche (1807)
• Guillaume Huret, active from Calais and Boulogne in 1795/1815 on Furet and Etoile (1798)
• Pierre Huret, active from Boulogne in 1756 on Rusé
• Jacques Huret, active from Calais in 1811 on Petit Loup

Cheers! Rama (talk) 23:27, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

There must be something we can do with all these Hurets, I just don't have the slightest idea what, especially as we don't know if there are any family relationships.

Another good resource: Malo, Henri (1908). Les corsaires : memoires et documents inedits (in French). Mercvre de France.. Apparently (p.360-361) Jean-Gabriel Huret on Grand rôdeur and Joseph Huret on Rôdeur shared in the capture of Henriette and Phoenix in late 1809. Rama (talk) 00:06, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Cute. I'll add this info on the list of privateers once I figure out how to do it.Acad Ronin (talk) 03:16, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi Rama, well, I have posted Rodeur (French privateer). If you could give it a quick glance, that would be helpful. I still have to fix Royalist. Also, one of your sources has great stuff on the sales price of the prizes the Rôdeurs captured, but I can't easily associate the prize with its captor. Also, we don't have enough to create any specific Rôdeur articles. I will have to think about this. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:07, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Demerliac request 2 January 2020

Hi Rama, I am still angry about the Marius Bar article deletion. I could have better handled my opposition argument. The lack of Anglo-Saxon sources and the lack of interest in photographers of ships does not justify deletion; but in ranting to you I am preaching to the converted. Anyway, I was looking at HMS Netley (1807) and saw that she was the former French privateer Déterminée, so I wondered if Demerliac had anything on her. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:08, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

Bah, that's the background noise of suppressionism: people who pretending to adhere strictly to a set of rules without interpretation, which is impossible, not consideration of opportunity, which is daft. I find that a minor nuisance, I save my anger for the misogynistic and racist hypocrites who would neuter Wikipedia to fit their fantasy 1950s if they could. There is too much work to be done figthing politically targeted promotion of obscurantism and injustice for me to resent random frustrations such as this.

Déterminé (masculine form, Déterminée would be feminine, n°2358, p.291): privateer brig commissioned in Bayonne in October 1803, 150 tonns, length 25.3 metres and beam 7.1 metres. First cruise in October-November 1803. Recommissioned in Bordeaux circa 1805 with 108 men and 14 guns. Captured by Vénus in March 1807.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:43, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Rama, thanks for the Demerliac. I was able to add a couple of lines about her. I also found two mentions in Lloyd's List - one of a prize she took an one reporting her capture. It all makes the article less stubby, and more Déterminée than its sources. The English sources all give the feminine form; which does Demerliac use? Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:28, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Demerliac uses the masculine form. It could be a typo, though. Cheers and thank you for your work! Rama (talk) 13:21, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

I guess this is a case where I will continue to use both forms in conformity with the sources. :-) Acad Ronin (talk) 01:48, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I realise how this quest for "the" canonical name can be a fool's errand. Even French original sources have sometimes various spellings for ships and even for people. Rama (talk) 11:15, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac request 23 January 2020

Hi Rama, below I have listed three articles that I did a long time ago, before you got the Demerliac. Each is a RN ship that was originally a French privateer. Fingers crossed that you find something.

• HMS Pert (1804)
• HMS Maria (1805)
• HMS Moucheron (1802) - Not just Actif, but also Socise, and Braave.

Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:48, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

• Bonaparte (Pert): mentionned p.333 as a 14-gun privateer, without a number (I am rather surprised there is not more about her)
• Constance (Marie): nothing about her, sorry (neither "Constance" not any variant I could think of)
• Moucheron (n°2248, p.283): 250-ton privateer brig commissioned in Bordeaux in May 1799. First cruise under Jean Lugeol with 130 men and 18 guns from May 1799 to some time in 1800. Second under a Captain Pruvost with 120 men and 16 guns from January to 16 February 1801, when HMS Revolutionnaire captured her. She had been named Actif before May 1799.
• Actif: there was a naval ship of the name that ended her career in 1800 (n°382, p.58). She was a 48-ton British merchantman, captured in May 1793 and commissioned in the French Navy as an aviso in June 1793. In 1798, she was recommissioned in Le Havre as a transport (Transport n°21). She was sold in Cherbourg in September 1800. Pierced for 6 guns but armed only with 2 2-pounders.
• Socise: this is "not a word", and I am struggling to imagine of what it could be a deformation. Maybe Sorcière (n°2022, p.264), a 45-ton privateer lugger disguised as a fishing boat, commissioned in September 1802 in Saint-Malo. First cruise from September to November 1803 under Jacques Laurent with 42 men and 10 4-pounder guns; second from November 1803 to November 1804 under Pierre Dupont with 42 or 43 men and 10 4-pounders; last cruise from November 1804 under Jacques Debon, with 44 to 60 men, and 10 4-pounders and 4 swivel guns. HMS Rebuff captured her on 26 April 1806.
• Braave: Probably Brave (n°2281, p.286), originally the British passenger ship King George, captured by Représailles, from Bordeaux, on 31 July 1803. 175 tons, 18.8 metres long at the keel, 7.1 metre beam and 4.2 metre draft. She was then recommissioned as a three-masted privateer in Bordeaux. First cruise under Luis-Joseph Quoniam from February 1804 to some time in 1805, with 98 to 120 men and 16 guns (8 12-pounder guns and 8 12-pounder carronades). Sold to Lapeyre and son in early 1806 at Vigo, schooner-rigged and renamed Boléro. Cruise under an unknown captain with 14 3-pounder guns from some time in 1806 to December 1806. In December 1806, sold to Pierre Labat in Bayonne, renamed Atrevido and recommissioned in Santander or Bayonne. Then (n°2366, p.292). Cruise from January 1807 to October under Jean-Marie Cochet with 120 men and 16 guns (8 6-pounders and 8 12-pounder howitzers); another from November 1807 to April 1808 under the same with 18 guns (8 6-pounders, 4 4-pounders and 6 12-pounders). Decomissioned in Bayonne in April 1808 and sold to Paul Lafargue, shipowner from Bordeaux, in May 1809.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 11:59, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Rama, actually, a pretty good hit rate.

• Bonaparte (Pert): surprising to me too
• Constance (Marie): too bad
• Moucheron: I have been able to add in some useful data
• Actif: if I can find her British name I might add a stubby article; so far, no luck
• Socise: I checked the original source and Sorciere is a much better fit to the text than Socise so I added the Demer info. I also found a little in Lloyd's List about her captures, so she is worth an article. Of course, that means I will have to do one on Rebuff, eventually.
• Braave: I found some British data on King George Packet, including a Lloyd's List mention that verifies the link to Brave, so I will do a short article on her. King George Packet was only about a year or so old when she was captured. I haven't found anything about her under the Bolero or Atrevido names, unfortunately.

Still, a pretty good haul. Many thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:36, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac request 29 January 2020

Hi Rama, sorry to bother you again so soon, but I have two requests.

1) King George, later Brave, is turning out to be more complex than I had initially thought. Could you please be kind enough to look at List of French privateers named for Napoleon Bonaparte. I am interested in the vessels for which we don't have articles, and particularly in the Buonoparte captured in 1796 which was the former King George packet captured in 1794. I am looking for any evidence one way or the other about her relation to the King George/Brave.

2) USS Delaware (1798) captured the French privateer La Croyable. This became the USS Retaliation, but the French Navy recaptured her, before the Americans again captured her. This is a great opportunity, if he cooperates, for Demerliac to show up in the American ship histories.

Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:05, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, no bother at all!

1) I have added all the Bonaparte/Buonaparte that I could find in 1792/1799 in the article.

That's a lot of privateers. It will be a good reference when I come across captures. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 00:29, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

And there are more Bonaparte in 1800-1815, and of course more Napoléon. I'll try to add them over time. Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:04, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

2) Croyable (n°2712, p.295) was 100-tonne Maryland-built schooner purchased from the Americans, commissioned as a privateer in Saint-Domingue at Cap-Français in 1798. She was armed with 12 or 14 6-pounders. Captured by USS Delaware and commissioned as the 76-man, 14-gun schooner USS Retaliation. Retaken by the frigates Insurgente and Volontaire on 20 November 1799 and commissioned in the French Navy as Magicienne (n°718, p.112) Ultimate fate unknown. Also mentioned in Roche, vol.1, p.291, without more details.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:31, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

I will add this to the relevant articles. The WP article on the USS Revolution has quite a bit of info about her time in US service. Acad Ronin (talk) 00:29, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac request 30 January 2020

Hi Rama, Apologies. I can't help myself.

• Camilla (1800 ship) - privateer Mouche
• Hired armed brig Louisa - privateer Bonne Peuple

Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:28, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Please do not apologise, I am only too happy to of some use. Grabbing my litterature... Rama (talk) 20:11, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

• Mouche I think it is n°1526, a 14-gun privateer from Dunkirk commissioned in 1799. She did a first cruise under Pierre-François Lefebvre, from Calais, with 60 men and 14 guns, from 1799 to 1800; another in 1801 under a Captain A.-T. Warnier, from Calais, with 43 men and 14 guns; and another under Pierre-François Lefebvre with about 60 men and 14 guns from August 1801 to later the same year.
• Nothing about a Bonne Peuple (?), Bon Peuple or Peuple, sorry.

Looking forwards to out next adventures! Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:50, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the Mouche info. Was that from the 1792-99 book, and do you have a page number for the info? Too bad about Bonne Peuple. Not surprised you couldn't find anything as she was in the Caribbean. Acad Ronin (talk) 00:27, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Sorry it was getting late. Mouche is n°1526, p.227 of 1800-1815. Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:07, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

French sources request 9 February 2020

Hi Rama, I was looking for something else and came across this older article Tarleton (1789 ship). She captured Guerrier, a privateer out of Bayonne, and I was wondering if you had anything on her that I could add to the article. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:27, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

Sorry, the only Guerrier from Bayonne commissioned in 1793 had a long career until USS Philadelphia captured her in 1800. Better luck nect time I hope! Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:04, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

French sources request 12 February 2020

Hi Rama, this one is even less promising. I have just finished HMS Otter (1778). She was a French merchantman captured in Feb 1778 off Charleston, South Carolina. I have found no mention of armament so she may not have even been a letter of marque. English records give the French name as Gleneur or Glanure. I suspect it was Glaneur, but I can't support that. Eventually she became the slave ship Cyclops, which "the French" captured off Hispaniola in mid-December 1795. At the same time her captors captured two other slave ships, with a total of over 1100 slaves on the three ships. I am hoping the sheer number of slaves made the capture notable enough that some French source has mentioned it, and the captors. Fingers crossed. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:25, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

Sorry I am afraid I have come empty-handed again. Regarding the action of 15 December 1795, I will ask specialists of the history of Quisqueya whether this shows on their record.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 09:20, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank for trying. I did not have high hopes. Frequently, what I am looking for is on the fringes of the history, not even important enough for footnotes. I will try and come up with some less obscure queries. :-) Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:12, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

I am sure that there are lots of things that are difficult to find, but that we can add occasionally through serendipity. And in this respect, having articles in place is immensely useful. I hope this action will come in time, I find the struggle against slave trading fascinating. Cheers! Rama (talk) 12:20, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

One thing that emerges from these biographies of ships that we are producing is in Hannah Arendt's words, "the banality of evil". The owners were just entrepreneurs, looking for profitable business, and for many, if slavery was profitable, that is what they did, and if it wasn't, they went on to something else: the West India trade, carrying convicts to Australia, whaling, armed ship for the Royal Navy, etc. I have just finished Vulture (1779 ship), which was a classic slaver, making 10 voyages delivering probably over 5000 slaves. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:03, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

I shudder to imagine.

Speaking of Indiamen, I just drafted a stub with what I had on French frigate Cumberland (1747), but I thought maybe you might have something on her previous career as Duke of Cumberland?

Cheers! Rama (talk) 22:19, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Cumberland

Hi Rama, There is something fishy here. I looked in Hackman, his book is the East India Company equivalent of Roche, Demerliac, etc. He has no Cumberland (or Duke of Cumberland) that fits the French sources. None are listed as having been capture. All are substantially larger than the French Cumberlad. I recalculated her burthen using her metric measurements and my calculations gave a burthen of 360 tons or so, but that is still low for Indiamen. Unfortunately Lloyd's Register did not publish then so I can't look for other vessels by those names. All in all, not good news. Acad Ronin (talk) 02:00, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

I too rose my eyebrow seeing such a small Indiaman. Demerliac gives a figure of 499 tons, but the name is the same. I suppose that the archives of the time will give us mysteries of this sort in all ways round. Thank you for looking and onwards to our next adventures! Rama (talk) 07:55, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

499 tons makes more sense, but that may be Demerliac making an assumption. People sailing for the EIC used to claim that their vessels were no more than 499 tons because the law originally required vessels of 500 tons or over to carry a chaplain. Hardy (1800) has only one Duke of Cumberland being lost in the EIC's service, and that was in 1749, and she was on her maiden voyage. Acad Ronin (talk) 12:46, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

ah ah, fascinating.

In fact I am a little bit confused, Demerliac cites several numbers, including the 250 tons of Roche. I suspect the 250 tons was the carrying capacity rather than the displacement. Roche also give the armament at 24 4-pounder, while Demerliac gives 20 6- or 8-pounders and 4 3- or 4-pounders, which I think makes much more sense. Still, a ship this size would be expected to appear in your lists if she was an Indiaman. Maybe she was actually a private merchantman and "Indiaman" is just a more glamourous way to describe a prize.

Thank you for your views and the interesting information! Rama (talk) 12:55, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

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Demerliac request 17 February 2020

Hi Rama, I have just put up HMS Venturer (1807), which was a former French privateer (Nouvelle Enterprise) captured in the West Indies. I suspect that the official provenence is incorrect and wonder what French records say, and particularly if there was more than one Nouvelle Enterprise in the 1807–1812 period. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:37, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

I am afraid that Demerliac does not say anything more than what you have already, but he does confirm she was a privater from Livorno (n°2583, p.308). She was 21.95m x 6.25m, about 120 tons, with 55 men and 5 guns.

A privateer built in Italy is not uncommon, though it is indeed rare for a ship this size to cross the Atlantic.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:51, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for looking this up. What bothers me, and there is no evidence to the contrary, is that she went from the Med to the Windies, was captured there, went to England, and then went back to the Med. What is more reasonable is that we have two vessels, one that starts and ends in the the Med, and the other that starts and ends in the Windies. But again, there is no evidence for the two vessel scenario. Too bad. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:25, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

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Demerliac requests 8 March 2020

Hi Rama, I have three requests that I hope you will find of interest. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:16, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

• Isabella (1793 ship) – I hope that Demerliac has something about her origins.
• Resolution (1793 privateer) – she captured several French merchant vessels. Probably none was a letter of marque, but I Hope for the best.
• HMS Resolution (1779) – she captured three French privateers, two in 1782 and one in 1797.

Hello,

• Nothing on a Saint Jean de Losne (or variants) in either 1774-1792 or 1792-1799
• Nothing either on Hewreaux nor on Resolution
• I have nothing on Larke or Susanna, but these names do not sound French. Maybe American or Spanish?
  • Cerf Volant (1774-1792, n°1717, p.177) was a 90-ton privateer from Dunkirk, under François-René Granger (Demerliac stated that he was "North-American"), with 40 men and 10 guns (6 gun and 4 swivel guns).
  • I have a Bienvenu captured in 1781, but she was a naval aviso and her captor was the privateer Thamer, so I believe she is not our interest.
  • Pichegru (1792-1799, n°2072, p.244) 100-ton privateer from Saint-Malo commissioned in 1796 or 1797. She was under a Captain i. Branzon with 35 men.

Not much but still a little something. Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:18, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Hi Rama, thanks. It is something. Am a little disappointed about Saint Jean, but not surprised. I will add the two items we do have. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 10:41, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of John Brignell for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article John Brignell is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Brignell (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Rathfelder (talk) 23:53, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac request 16 March 2020

Hi Rama, I hope you are well; we (m wife, children, and grandchild, are OK. I have just finished HMS Bonetta (1798). Does Demerliac have anything on Huit Amis, which is what she was before the RN captured her? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:18, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

glad to know you are safe and sound, and I hope you stay so. We are under quarantine here, hoping not to develop symptoms and trying to maintain moral.

Huit Amis (n°2392, p.271), a privateer corvette from Bordeaux, commissioned in 1798 (probably another near-sistership of Confiance and this sort of ships). Cruise in 1798 with 160 men, and 18 6-pounders and 2 smaller guns, until captured by HMS Endymion. Her plans are published in Claude and Jacqueline Briot's Les Clippers français, page 20.

Wishing good health and high spirits to you and yours, Rama (talk) 10:10, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Implemented. Thanks. One source (J.Salins), says her captain was Bernard Benquey. Anything in your sources? Also, am following the philosophy of "Keep calm and carry on". Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 14:31, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Splendid! No, Demerliac says nothing about her captain. I am trying to gain access to Clippers français for the plan, and hopefully a little bit of extra information. Take good care of yourself and each other, as I am sure you do. Cheers! Rama (talk) 15:06, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Hi Rama, looks like you have found some good additional info on Huit Amis. For a short-lived vessel she seems to have had a surprising influence. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:57, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I received Les Clippers français today and the authors see her as one of the forerunners of clippers. I also found this gem, the first modern 4-masted ship!

• 
• 

With any chance there is enough about her to write an article. And the book has a wealth of paintings, etchings, plans and photographs that can go on Commons, thank you for sparking the discovery!

I hope you and your loved ones are safe and sound, and that morale is holding up. Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:35, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

All well here. Miss human face-to-face contact, but otherwise things are OK. Hope all is well with your friends and loved ones too. I just got off the phone with some old friends; people are reaching out to friends to check on each other. It's really sweet. I hope in a few days to do articles on the two remaining HMS Trompeuses. With a bit of luck Demerliac will have something to contribute. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:31, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

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Demerliac request 25 March 2020

Hi Rama, Nice work on the extreme clipper and the Sea Witch. I have just posted HMS Trompeuse (1794). She captured one small privater, Eville. Does Demerliac have anything on her? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:00, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

I think the French name is probably Éveillé. I have one (n°2499, p.280), of 100 men and 10 guns, but she was captured in April 1796 by HMS Engageante to I doubt she is our subject of interest.

Hah! This is ours. At the time Engageante was a hospital ship at Cork and Adm Kingsmill's flagship at Cork. It was Kingsmill who dispatched Trompeuse on the mission during which she captured Éveillé on 11 June 1796. So it looks like Demerliac credited the Admiral's ship, and not the actual captor. Excellent. Does Demerliac have more about her? Acad Ronin (talk) 11:33, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

There is also a naval brig or aviso (n°186, p.45), but she was captured by HMS Thunderer and Pomone in October 1795, so no luck there either.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 07:37, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello, no, sorry, that is all there is in Demerliac. Very interesting identification, congratulations! Cheers! Rama (talk) 10:33, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac request 26 March 2020

Hi Rama, two queries. 1) I have put up HMS Trompeuse (1800). Does Demerliac have anything on Coureur? 2) In August 1798 the British captured French corvette Aventurier (1793). In July an Aventurier, a privateer, had a notable engagement with a packet named Princess Royal. Was there a privateer by that name in July 1798, or were these two vessels the same vessel? Thanks, and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:55, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

• Yes! Coureur or Courier (n°2180, p.277 of 1800-1815), a privateer commissioned in Nantes in 1797 under Pierre Arnoux, with 150 men and 10 guns. Captured by HMS Révolutionnaire in March 1800.

Double Hah!. That's ours. I have implemented the info. Also, this led me to an item in Lloyd's list that clarified that the Princess Royal Couriere had captured was a Post Office packet ship. Acad Ronin (talk) 11:40, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

• Aventurier is a rather common name (and to complicate matters further it is also a generic term, see En aventurier). A candidate might be Aventurier (n°2375, p.270), a brig commissioned in Bordeaux in May 1798 with 85 men and 16 guns (14 4-pounder long guns and 2 12-pounder carronades). The strength of Princess Royal might provide a clue, since we can assume that to have a notable engagement they had to be fairly evenly matched; do we have an idea of that?

Actually, the fight was notable precisely because Princess Royal successfully repelled her attacker, despite being substantially less well armed. Unfortunately, at the time Lloyd's Register did not carry info on Falmouth packets, making it hard to dig further, but I will try.

Cheers and take good care of yourself and others! Rama (talk) 07:57, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

All-in-all, excellent hunting. Many thanks. Stay well. Acad Ronin (talk) 12:03, 27 March 2020

(UTC)

French sources request 30 March 2020

Hi Rama, All well here; hope same on your side. I have just finished three articles on captured French Navy vessels. I doubt that Demerliac has anything but Roche might.

• HMS Amethyst (1793)
• HMS Athenienne (1796), and her prize Nantaise
• HMS Eclipse (1804)

I don't expect much luck, but fingers crossed. Thanks and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:36, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

• Perle/Amethyst: Roche (p.348) states that her French royalist crew fled to Porto-Ferrayo when the Republicans recaptured Toulon, and that she then transfered to the Royal Navy; does that reconcile with your sources?

It is consistent with my sources, though they do not go into that detail.

• Athenienne: Roche does not have anything that you had not already found, Demerliac had a few details.
• Nantaise: not much: privateer schooner from Nantes, commissioned in 1797 (n°2258, p.260)
• Eclipse: I have incorporated a few details from Roche.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 11:37, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

PS: one troubling detail is that both Roche and Demerliac state as a fact that Volage was not recommissioned by the Royal Navy after her capture; I suspect they both read the same erroneous source. Rama (talk) 12:15, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

The British sources are unambiguous. That does not mean that they are correct, just verifiable sources.

This just became more interesting. Winfield (2008, p.328), in an item about Vesuve, states that Loire captured Veseux, a sister ship of Vesuve and Cruelle at the Ile de Batz, but did not add her to the RN. However, on p.348 he describes Eclipse's origin as Venteux/Volage, sister ship to Vesuve, and taken by Loire. Looks like there was an incorrect report or source hanging around that later got superseded.Acad Ronin (talk) 00:15, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Lots of good detail, more than I expected. Internet is now overloaded - slow response times - but I will continue later when the volume of traffic reduces. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 12:29, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

I am delighted that you were able to add so much to all the vessels. I added in the info on Nantaise and Perle as well. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:08, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Delighted to be of assistance, though you did the overwhelming part of the work. I hope we are not clogging the Internet with naval history, though. Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:26, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Hey, if we are slowing the download speed of child porn, then we are doing a public service. :-) Acad Ronin (talk) 22:05, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Cruelle

Hi Rama, nice work on setting up a class article. Something struck me in looking at her info. Is it possible that when she was referred to as a schooner, this was a description of her role and not her rig? I have occasionally seen references to that ambiguity. It also shows up with respect to vessels referred to as cutters. Revenue cutters were not always cutter-rigged. Something to muse over. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

"Schooner" (goélette) is not a role in French, the role would be aviso or chaloupe-canonnière. There are times when a same word can designate the shape or the role of the ship ("frigate" is even also a status symbol, which is why ships like Aurore or Astrolabe are sometimes called "frigates", sort of honoris causa...), but I do not think this would be the case for goélette. Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:31, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Interesting. There is slightly more ambiguity in English usage, though not formally. The EIC sometimes referred to its pilot boats as schooners, though there is no evidence that they were schooner-rigged.Acad Ronin (talk) 22:05, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

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Fixed. Acad Ronin (talk) 14:09, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, I was a bit at a loss about this one. Cheers! Rama (talk) 14:45, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

French sources request for 1 April 2020

Hi Rama, I have just put up French brig Vaillante (1793). If you can add anything from Demerliac or Roche, that would be great. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:29, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

not a lot I am afraid, but I did French corvette Décius (1795) and her captain Louis-André Senez, which led me to Quintin's book and a few details. Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:59, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes, Decius and Vaillante were too short-lived to accumulate much history. Still, the articles you made help turn some red links blue, and tie various vessels and their commanders together, which is a good thing. Moe puzzle pieces linking up. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:42, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac request 4 April 2020

Hi Rama, all well here; hope same at our end. When you have the time, could you please revisit HMS Albacore (1793). I have just added her presence at the capture of the privateer Alexandre in 1796. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:20, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Also, I think sometime ago I asked you to look at Africaine (corvette), but you did not find anything. Could you please confirm. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:37, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

• Alexander: that would be Alexandre (n°2229, p.257 of 1792-1799), a privateer from Nantes commissioned in March 1796 under Captain Jean-Pierre Edet, with 66 men and 10 guns. Captured on 1 April 1796 by HMS Invicible.
• Africaine: no sign in Roche (she would be at page 24 of volume 1 if she had an entry, but she does not; neither under Africain or Afrique). This would indicate that the ship would be a privateer. Nothing in Roche, there is mention of a schooner from Guadeloupe (n°2733, p.320), but she was active in 1799-1801, and had a 20-man crew, so nothing like a 20-gun ship.

Did I miss anything?

Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:14, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt response. I will add the Alexander info. As far as Africaine is concerned, as I said I think we tried to find her in Demerliac some time age but without success. She is a bit large to have been built in the West Indies, but she may have been a prize or merchantman. Despite her importance in International Law, it is curious how little we know about her. Someday perhaps we will have more. Regards Acad Ronin (talk) 19:13, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I have added the info on Alexander. As far as Africaine is concerned, I have just found this:Trans Atlantic Slave Trade Database – Africain voyage #33696. She is in the right place at about the right time, but the ship descriptions are incongruent. The court case refers to a corvette of 20 guns, where as the slaver is a brig of 178 tons. So, we still have a puzzle. Also, I cannot find evidence of a British privateer named Garland, which reportedly captured Africaine, precipitating the court case. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:38, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

We are getting to the point where I am forgetting what I have done in the past. I found this: HMS Echo (1797). Unfortunately, all anglophone sources describe Africaine as a French navy corvette, and all Francophone or French-origin sources have no vessel meeting her description. I am baffled. Acad Ronin (talk) 19:48, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

There is no such thing as absolute certainty of course, but I would expect a naval ship this size to appear in my records. A compromise might be a "corsaire de la République", privateers commissioned by the State and usually commanded by junior Navy officers. That might leave the impression they were ships of the Navy, although they would not have been. But even so, a corvette-sized privateer would typically be listes in Demerliac, and in this case there no mention even in the "we know very little about that one" section. Could the name have been altered in some other way? Cheers! Rama (talk) 20:36, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I will keep an eye out, but for now I am just baffled.Acad Ronin (talk) 21:30, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

@Acad Ronin: I took the liberty of adding some sources on the Africaine (corvette), she was previously the USS Herald (1798) her captain in 1804 was Duaberqueny (which I suspect is a misspelling). Any ideas? Broichmore (talk) 12:33, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

@Broichmore: That is a marvelous find. Later today (13 April), I will work on joining up the articles, both of which are stubby. I am so chuffed that a mystery has been solved. Acad Ronin (talk) 13:51, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Congratulations indeed! Rama (talk) 14:01, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

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La Belle Poule (1932)

Hi Rama, Do you have an account with French Newspaper Archives? I'm wondering because you might be able to settle this question over who ordered the vessel? See talk page Best regards Broichmore (talk) 16:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I do not, but I have tried to look around for sources. Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:15, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Africaine

Hi Rama and @Broichmore: – Well that was fun. Please look at USS Herald (1798). I have put together three articles that had existed in parallel in WP: the article about Herald, the article about Africaine (corvette), and an other article I had recently prepared on the slave ship Africaine (1805 ship). The connection/time line looks pretty solid. Rama: if you can, could you please see if Demerliac has anything on a 6-gun privateer named Mutine that Herald had captured during the undeclared war with France in 1798-1800. Broichmore, thanks for the research that gave me the thread that tied all three together. I am surprised that Demerliac and the French sources have nothing on Africain while she was French, but perhaps some day we will find out more. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Impressive feat of sleuthing for you both!

for Mutine, the closest candidate I think is an unnumbered entry in 1800-1815, page 338: Mutine, privateer captured in 1800 by USS Boston in the Caribbean. Could this be the one?

Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:16, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

That's probably her. Boston was the lead vessel of the squadron that included Herald and Augusta. Thanks. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:05, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Remembering our little adventure with Éveillé and HMS Engageante, that was my suspicion. Cheers! Rama (talk) 13:22, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac request 19 April 2020

Hi Rama, I have just put up Wright (1794 ship). She captured the french privateer Merveilleuse in the North Sea in 1798. I am hoping that Demerliac has something on her. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:41, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

Merveilleuse (n°1977, p.237), a 27-tonne privateer schooner from Honfleur, built on a design by Jean-Louis Pestel (a notable naval engineer, I should think about writing his biography some day) between 1797 and 1798, and commissioned in early 1798. One cruise under an unknown captain with 39 men and 6 guns until captured by HMS (?) Wright of 14 guns.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 13:18, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Super. Thanks. The article is currently an orphan so if you do an article about Pestel that would make it unorphaned. :-) In the meantime, the info adds a little more depth to the article. Now that I think about it, is there an easy way to find out what vessels Pestel designed? I could create an article: List of vessels designed by Jean-Louis Petel. What do you think? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 13:50, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Turns out WP has an article on François Pestel, who was a contemporary of Jean-Louis. Do we know if the two are related? Acad Ronin (talk) 14:01, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Given they worked at the same time, chances are good they were brothers, but I should find sources to corroborate this. But I am knee-deep in Suffren's biography at the moment, it might take a while before I emerge from this. Incidentally, my sources for Orient mention that she captured a British privateer named Vigilant, would you happen to have anything about her?

Cheers! Rama (talk) 14:05, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Privateer Vigilant, of Bristol, Marshall, master, was taken by two French frigates. She and part of her crew were taken into Lorient. Unfortunately, Lloyd's Register for 1779 and 1780 is missing the relevant pages so I can't see if there is anything more. I do know that she almost certainly was not a slave ship, at least under the name Vigilant. Am still looking to see if I can find anything more. Also, the second to the last sentence in the article on Orient is missing a word after "false". Acad Ronin (talk) 15:04, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks! Looking forwards to our next adventures at sea! Rama (talk) 16:48, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

I have created Jean-Louis Pestel. So far I have listed six vessels that he built. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:27, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Splendid, I hope I come across information about them some day that I can add. Good continuation! Rama (talk) 18:46, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac request 20 April 2020

Hi Rama, I see that you are doing a lot on Suffren and the Indian Ocean. It's nice to have more that the British perspective. Anyway, I came across an older article where Demerliac may have something. HMS Redbridge (1803) is the former French privateer Oiseau. she was captured in the Channel so we have a shot. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:59, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

thank you for your kind words. I am actually annoyed at the scarcity and nature of the available sources: I fear I am relying on a handful of people, who are usually not historians, and whose personal perspective floods the field. I am trying to use historiographic techniques to prune the value judgements and exagerations, but there is only so much I can do in this way,

Anyway, Oiseau (n°2223, p.280), a 150-tonne privateer schooner or cutter commissioned in Rochefort in August 1803, possibly originating in Nantes. 24.7m×6.5m. One cruise, from August 1803, with 86 men and 12 gus (2 4-pounders and 10 6-pounder carronades), until capture by HMS Argo on 12 September 1803. Recommissioned as HMS Redbridge.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:32, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi Rama, 1) The only people who wrote were nationalists. We are lucky if when we can get perspectives from both sides. As for overcoming exaggeration or bias, try: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/12/malatesta_estim.html I put it up on a blog run by someone else. If nothing else, it is fun. 2) Thanks for the Oiseau; I have added the info. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:30, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

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Demerliac request 3 April 2020

Hi Rama, nice work on the various French officers. It's good to see the Indian Ocean theatre get attention. I have just put up Bolton (1792 ship). When you have the time could you please see if Demerliac has anything on Gironde. There are two other privateers as well, but we don't have names so it will be impossible to find out who they were. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:51, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

curiously for a ship of that strength, there is not much:

Gironde (n°2273, p.285), privateer commissioned in 1801 under François Avesou.

There is mention of this entry on Young William (1794 ship), with a bit more information. I wonder whether there are different editions of the Demerliac. Mine is dated from 2003.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 09:32, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi Rama, thanks for this. I had forgotten that we had seen her before. The extra info in the article on Young William comes from the letter in the London Gazette announcing her capture. As we know, Demerliac apparently did get some of his info from the London Gazette, but not this time. There are different editions of Demerliac, but it is not clear that there were changes between them. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:31, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

French sources request 12 May 2020

Hi Rama,

1) I was tidying Magicienne and I got sidetracked into preparing an article on one of her captures – Huron (1793 ship). The article already has the relevant info from Demerliac, but I was wondering if she shows up in any other French sources. She wasn't important, so probably won't, but it might be worth checking. Also, in researching her, I discovered an advertisement for her sale and the sale of her cargo after she was taken in prize. You can click on the link in the article and see the list of things she was carrying. I found it quite interesting. The same newspaper page had other captures and I will add the info on those vessels and their cargoes where I can.

2) By the way, there were a number of privateers called Bien-Aimé that the RN captured and whose capture is mentioned in the London Gazette. Should I add them to the page French ship Bien-Aimé, perhaps with two sub-headings, one for the naval ships and one for the privateers and merchantmen? It looks like the page is safe from speedy deletion now, but more info might further protect it.Acad Ronin (talk) 19:22, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

Not in what I have at the moment I am afraid, but I will try to gather more information about privateers and I will add whatever I manage to find. I must say I find it a bit disappointing to have so little solid information about individual privateers, when one sees the rock star status these people have in literature, and I hope things will improve.

Good idea about Bien-Aimé, thank you very much for your help!

Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:34, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

I'll start on the Bien-Aimés and work on that sporadically.Acad Ronin (talk) 00:24, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello @Acad Ronin:, I actually did find a mention of Huron at page 104 of Aventures des corsaires et des grands navigateurs bordelais, by par Henri Ribadieu, but it is only fit to confirm that the ship existed, it does not bring anything new.

Thank you for the further Bien aimé and cheers! Rama (talk) 06:51, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac/Roche request 12 May 2020

I have just finished French gun vessel Bombarde (1800 ship). This is a strange vessel and there is no mention of her in Winfield & Roberts. The data I have on her dimensions and burthen come from the advertisements I mentioned. I'm hoping that French sources have something that I can add. Thanks for the help, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:24, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

I have added a bit from Roche and Demerliac. There would be a small galaxy of articles to make about the various weirdos that the French Navy experimented at the time, but the ressources I have are dispersed in various paper articles that I would have to explore by hand, and I have to admit my inclination carries me towards more ocean-worthy ships.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 09:54, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

What you have added to the Bombarde article is great. We can't cover it all, but at least we now have a representative bit. Many thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 10:23, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing the topic, I am looking forwards to our next mysteries. Rama (talk) 10:26, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac request 13 May 2020

Hi Rama, I have just added info to French frigate Cléopâtre (1781). In 1801 she was chasing the French lugger privateer Espoir, which the English privateer Lord Nelson captured. Does Demerliac have anything on Espoir? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:23, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

I am afraid that there is nothing in Demerliac. I have found a passing mention in another book, Robidou, François (1919). Les derniers corsaires malouins : la course sous la République et l'Empire, 1793-1814 (in French). Rennes: Impr. de Oberthür.

At page 89, the author complains about exagerations in British capture reports (rather appropriately, he seems himself to exagerate the exageration), and he gives Espoir as an example (the other example he mentions is unrelated, but I have found it available at [11], p.186 and p187)

I have found mention of anterior and posterior Espoir, but unrelated to this one, sadly.

On a lighter note, I see that I am beginning to find at least passing mentions of the ships we seek, hopefully we will one day strike one of the well-documented ones and write longer articles.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:23, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Joseph-Bernard de Chabert-Cogolin

Missing Troude 1867. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:27, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Bastet

Hi Rama, your photos of the goddess reminded me of something that has annoyed me for some time. Museums collect and group their collections by time and artist (e.g., Dutch painters of the 17th Century), which is the way art historians think. I would live to see an exhibit on dogs, or cats, or horses, or cranes, that would span the centuries and artifacts and media. So, "Cats", with Bastet, a mummy of cats (the Egyptians made them in the thousands), a stuffed cat, painting of cats over time, Japanese wood blocks, etc. I think that sort of exhibit would draw people. as would "Shipwrecks", "Sea Battles" (with some cannons and pikes as well). And so on. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:57, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Well I think that is an absolute splendid use case for Wikidata. I'll ask around whether we can make a few spectacular queries. Thanks for the idea and cheers! Rama (talk) 19:25, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

A friend suggests this query for such an Imaginary Museum about cats, for instance, which gives (for the first few results, the list goes on quite a while)

Cats Imaginary Museum

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:39, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi Rama, what a great result; it's amazing how often cats show up in the pictures. I don't know what the role of Wikidata would be in all this (I have never understood what Wikidata is about), but the creation of Imaginary Museums would be cool. Once they exist, perhaps some physical museums will pick up on the idea and do travelling special exhibits. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:15, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

It is even better than that: cats show up in all these images, and in some of these you have to look for them à la Where's Waldo.

There is no overstating how important and promising Wikidata is. It is a bit like a library index, cross-referencing books and authors, except it does that for everything, with a very flexible database system. Since everything is unambiguously formatted, computers can process this information, allowing very powerful queries to be made. The above is an very simple example, there are loads of amusing examples going from Paintings with wind instruments in them to countries ordered by number of Ministers who had a parent who had been a Minister. Of course you have to have everything properly annotated, pretty much like what we do for ships on Wikipedia. E.g. at some point I decided I wanted all the Chief Mousers of n°10 properly annotated, and it allowed me to do this timeline.

These are amusing examples, but real-life requirements for information typically takes this form. For instance, Orders of Battle in naval actions are very much this: "list of ships present at given battle, ordered by position in line of battle, with name of commanding officer, number of killed, wounded and total casualties". Providing the data was encoded in Wikidata, we could generate these tables at the blink of an eye. And adding the year of launch or a miniature image for each ship, for instance, would be a matter of second. Same for "list of commanders for given ship, with dates", or conversly "list of ships any given person served on, with dates and function", etc.

Finally, Commons is introducing a Wikidata-based annotation system, which allows to state "this image depicts a cat". Queries like "Chief Mouser" or "Bastet" operate on the the individual n°10 cats or on the individual museum items, respectively, and display the images chosen as best to give illustrate the item. But with the Commons annotations, it is the images themselves that carry annotations. For instance, you could automatically generate a timeline of the construction of the Burj Khalifa by querying "images that depict the Burj Khalifa, ordered by date, one for every month".

Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:13, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

HMS Topaze

Hi Rama, you added the info that she cruised off the Pyrenees. What do you mean? Because they run E-W between France and Spain, it is not clear what being off the Pyranees is. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:41, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I suppose that would be the Gulf of Lion. Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:45, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Done. Acad Ronin (talk) 22:50, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac page number

Hi Rama, Do you have the page number for the following: Démocrate was a privateer known to have been active off Saint-Domingue in January 1797. sfnp|Demerliac|1804|p=?, n°2636 ? thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:23, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

That would be page 290. Cheers! Rama (talk) 11:32, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Also I have added a Cunat reference to the Serapis article. If it is the correct Cunat book no need to reply. Acad Ronin (talk) 16:35, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Acad Ronin! I have taken to adding OCLC number as much as I can, in case a nearby library has the books. I keep a lookout for engravings to illustrate people or ships, today I found File:Conquerant at Cape Henry.JPG which has some use. Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:52, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac request 30 May 2020

Hi Rama, Here's a long shot: the privateer Fleche captured the whaler Hero (1807 ship) off Peru in 1808. The name suggests that Fleche was probably French, and the French and Spanish were still allies then, but the capture occurred far from the Channel so who knows what Demerliac will have. Also, could you please verify for me the year of publication for the set of Demerliacs that you are using. I don't think the books changed much between editions, but, as the Swiss say, "For the sake of good order". Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:59, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello Acad Ronin!

Sorry, nothing I can find on Flèche, in Demerliac or in the various books I have found about privateers.

I Recently double-checked the Demerliac, and added OCLC numbers when applicable. I seem to have inferred from one of the volumes that the whole set would have the same publication date, but that was not the case. What I have now is:

• Demerliac, Alain (2004). La Marine de Louis XIII et Anne d'Autriche: Nomenclature des Navires Français de 1610 à 1661 (in French). Éditions Ancre. ISBN 9782903179397. OCLC 173973452.
• Demerliac, Alain (1995). La Marine de Louis XIV: Nomenclature des Navires Français de 1661 à 1715 (in French). Éditions Ancre.
• Demerliac, Alain (1995). La Marine de Louis XV: Nomenclature des Navires Français de 1715 à 1774 (in French). Éditions Ancre. ISBN 9782906381193. OCLC 492782929.
• Demerliac, Alain (2020). La Marine de Louis XV (supplément): Nomenclature des Navires Corsaires Français de 1715 à 1774 (in French). Éditions Ancre.
• Demerliac, Alain (1996). La Marine de Louis XVI: Nomenclature des Navires Français de 1774 à 1792 (in French). Éditions Ancre. ISBN 9782906381230. OCLC 468324725.
• Demerliac, Alain (1999). La Marine de la Révolution: Nomenclature des Navires Français de 1792 à 1799 (in French). Éditions Ancre. ISBN 9782906381247. OCLC 492783890.
• Demerliac, Alain (2003). La Marine du Consulat et du Premier Empire: Nomenclature des Navires Français de 1800 à 1815 (in French). Éditions Ancre. ISBN 9782903179304. OCLC 492784876.
• Demerliac, Alain (2007). La Marine de la Restauration et de Louis-Phillipe 1er: Nomenclature des Navires Français de 1815 à 1848 (in French). Éditions Ancre.
• Demerliac, Alain (2013). La Marine de la Deuxième République et du Second Empire: Nomenclature des Navires Français de 1848 à 1871 (in French). Éditions Ancre. (Military navy)
• Demerliac, Alain (2018). La Marine marchande de la Deuxième République et du Second Empire: Nomenclature des Navires Français de 1848 à 1871 (in French). Éditions Ancre. (Merchant navy)

Cheers! Rama (talk) 12:25, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi Rama, Not surprised about the Fleche. Perhaps one day... I will amend my Demerliac records and start to correct mentions whenever I re-edit an article. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 13:04, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

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Demerliac request 5 June 2020

Hi Rama, when you get a chance could you please look at an older article, Duguay-Trouin (French privateer). We have never Demerliaced the article. I am particularly interested in the Duguay-Trouin that was the former slave ship Baron de Binder as it turns out that the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade database has info on her slave voyages. That and her privateer career would give us enough for a short article on her. Thanks and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:22, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Here we are, from Louis XVI to the Empire, at least. Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:07, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Saw that. Thanks. Will get to it shortly, though I will need your help with flags. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:53, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Th article Baron de Binder (1782 ship) is up. I was pleased to see that two pieces of the great puzzle came together (see HMS Albermarle (1779). As she served in the French Navy, is there any chance that Roche has any info? Also, are you aware of any mention in French sources of her service as Baron de Binder (or Baron Bender)? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:19, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello

Yes, Roche mentions her, but just enough to confirm the renaming to Calypso.

Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:19, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of Modèle 1978 helmet for deletion

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Demerliac request 23 June 2020

Hi Rama, I hope you are well; we are. I was just fiddling with the article Angola (1799 ship) and saw that we don't have a Demerliac ref. Does he have anything on Tigre (ex-Angola)? Unfortunately, I could not find anything on her after she returned to British hands. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:07, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

I think she is the one mentioned at page 340, in the unumbered section: "privateer of 40 men and 12 guns captured by the British around January 1805". Not much to write home about, I am afraid. Cheers! Rama (talk) 11:06, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Ah well. Thanks for trying. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:35, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Fixed Pierre-Julien Tréhouart

I took the liberty of fixing a small date-mistake under Pierre-Julien Tréhouart. In many texts from this time, 5 looks like 9. In the Legion of Honour paper, It's year 5, not 9. Also Cybèle in various sources is said to have been sent back to France immediately after Sercey returned from Batavia to Mauritius. Sercey was in the Bali Sound late january. Since Tréhouart arrived in Rochefort in messidor (mid-june/mid-july 1797) and had sailed for 74 days he must have sailed from Mauritius early in april. I'm sitting on a few real sources that can fill discrepancies in the articles concerning Serceys ships in the Indian ocean in 1796-1798, so I may contribute on those articles when I've gone throught the material.

I tried to send you a mail, but i can't seem to access my wiki account anymore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.34.15.27 (talk) 18:33, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much! I hope you find the time to implement the further contributions that you have in mind, I would be very curious to see your sources. Thanks again and good continuation! Rama (talk) 19:46, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

I am doing research on something actually different (Norway, 1804), but everything is intertwined, and many of the people involved there are in a way or another involved with Sercey earlier, and even in Norway in 94-95. One of them is Ravenel. He was in command of Preneuse from 4. august 96 to 8. september 97, because the ship needs repairs. Then he gets command over Forte, from 29.09.97 to 02.07.1798, because he's sick then. Only then was Beaulieu reinstated, not before. There must have been a misunderstanding from Sercey when he wrrote to the ministry. But yes, Ravenel was sent "on a walk" by the authorities in Mauritius. The personal file of Ravenel gives a very detailed report of what Preneuse, Brûle-Gueule, Prudente, Forte did while Sercey was away. Incredible that Ravenel went under the radar in previous literature. I can send you the file when i fix my account, but it's available online, after i requested it. Archive AN MAR-C-7-269. Guillaume Louis Ravenel.

Smashing! All these are very interesting ships, I would be delighted to have more details on them. I have been working on the French naval captains of the War of American Independence recently, and I will definitely try to improve those of the Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars. Looking forwards to this very much. Cheers! Rama (talk) 05:36, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac request 22 July 2020

Hi Rama, hope you are well; all well here. I have just put up Neptune (1797 ship), which the French corvette Mouche captured in 1809. The accounts do not mention that Mouche was a national corvette, so I suspect that she was one of the large privateers. Does Demerliac have anything on her? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 06:32, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

glad to hear good news on your side, I hope you stay safe. Here we are safe and sound for the moment, although the epidemic stopped receding and we are looking at a tightening of prophylactic measures.

There were a number of Mouche privateers but to my surprise, I could not reconcile any of them with the dates you mention.

There were also a number of Mouche in the Navy at the same time: "mouche" is also a term used for "aviso", so you had numerous Mouche n°2, Mouche n°3 etc., many built as copies of a schooner designed by Cochrane and captured by the French. One of them had a notable voyage in the Indian Ocean. These were much smaller than the Mouche you describe, I doubt that one of them would be involved.

I'll let you know if I come up with an idea and find something later one. Cheers! Rama (talk) 07:37, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi Rama, here (my city) we were on a good path but it has just started to worsen a little, so we will probably wait before easing further. At least all this gives me more time to work on WP. As for Mouche – I had the same assessment. The one we are looking for sounds like the large Bayonne-built corvette privateer, not the little one-gun avisos. Also, normally the Brits distinguished between National (i.e., naval) vessels and private men of war. So, as you say, a surprising gap in Demerliac. Anyway, thanks for looking, all the best, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:11, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I suspect that the ships might have been renamed, or had a slightly different name. If I find something I will let you know. Take good case of yourself and your loved ones, and cheers! Rama (talk) 11:16, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Demerliac request 29 July 2020

Hi Rama, I have just put up Duchess of Rutland (1786 ship). The French privateer Vengeance captured her in 1797. I wondered if Demerliac had any info on her. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:02, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

there were a small number of Vengeance operating at the time, but they are not all easy to reconcile with the caracteristics you mention in the article. A candidate on which I have little information might be a good candidate based on the location of the capture: Vengeance (n°2706, p.294), a privateer from Saint Domingue commissioned in February 1797. She was eventually captured by USS Trumbull, whose article describes her as a schooner. Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:44, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Excellent; thanks. I have added the info as there is sufficient fit to warrant "being bold". I am a little curious and will do a little more digging re Vengeance. Acad Ronin (talk) 11:38, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Could Vengeance also be the privateer that captured Ranger in 1797, or was that a different privateer? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:16, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

There is no definitive way to know from Demerliac, but off Gironde I would suspect a privateer from Bordeaux or Rochefort. There is nothing as to the size, armament or sail plan of the privateer in question, I suppose? Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:08, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I too am finding too many Vengeances and can't track down any more info. We might as well drop the matter for now unless someday we try and sort them out. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:49, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Source request 31 July 2020

Hi Rama, in French corvette Mutine there is an in-line citation to a Perret (1997;2014), but there is no relevant work in the references. I checked your library, and didnt see anything. Any idea who this might be? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:59, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Not one of mine, but could it be a reference to Bryan Perrett's The real Hornblower : the life and times of admiral sir James Gordon? First published in 1997 and republished in 2014 (ISBN: 9781632201027 163220102X, OCLC 1082452185)?

Cheers! Rama (talk) 09:02, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

There is a common saying in the US Army, "Assume makes an ass out of u and me". I assumed from the name that Perrett was French. Nice catch. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 11:48, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Truncated like it was, "Perret" did sound very French, I just had a bit of luck with the OCLC site. Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:05, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Article for Weshona

I found this rapper online and I've been following his profile, I'll need your help on the making of this article about him, I've done a little work on it

Victor Chukwudi Thomas known professionally as Weshona (born 28 March 2002) is a nigerian rapper, singer and songwriter known for his song Black Vibe, he currently works with Big Tunez Records in Port Harcourt [12]

Weshona
Birth name	Victor Chukwudi Thomas
Born	(2002-03-28) 28 March 2002
Origin	Umuahia South, Abia state, Nigeria
Genres	Afrobeats hip hop trap
Occupations	Singer songwriter rapper
Instruments	Vocals piano
Years active	2016– present
Labels	Big Tunez Records Archerz Music
Website	instagram.com/weshona

Biography

Weshona was born in Port Harcourt, Nigeria where he grew up and had his basic to secondary education. He currently studies Philosophy at the University of Port Harcourt in Nigeria. [13]

Career

Weshona grew up as a member of his church choir and started writing his songs in 2016, Weshona released his first song on October 27, 2019. He came to limelight with the release of the song "Black Vibe" in 2020 [14]

Discography

Singles

• Black Vibe (2020)[15] Wiki Youngster (talk) 09:39, 3 September 2020 (UTC)