User talk:TopGun/Archives/2012/March

Moving your sandbox

I've performed the move that you requested. Note my edit summary here — I've done my best to show that neither you nor DarknessShines has violated the interaction ban. Nyttend (talk) 03:49, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

That's great. Thanks. :) --lTopGunl (talk) 07:47, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Pakistan, love it or hate it?...

Yes I am, please do not modify anything until you have read my replies, overreferencing is unnecessary, unsightly etc., what happens at talk/anti-pakistan etc. is not relevant to the other article, and your clumsy edit messed up the reffing and restored User:Darkness Shines *overkill* on the citation needed tags. I am trying to clean up the article and make it (reasonably) wiki-like, even if I have my doubts as to its pertinence, okay for expressions of love about Pakistan, I will leave the section *but* remove Bryan Adams, as performers always say "omg Paris you are just so amazing" etc. but I do concede that the other professions of love for Pakistan and its culture do have more weight to them. Oh and I am a big fan of Peshwari naan. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 12:46, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I read your replies but you didn't respond to it so I thought you weren't watchlisting it. I've been editing related articles for quite some time, and seen disputes seem from one article to other. The terms are bound to be challenged even on the fact that the article (currently) cites only a single reference. Some editors were terming it as neologism so we had an RFC after much contention (which is still on going there). But I guess you get my reasons - didn't intend to reinstate the overkill tags along with the ref. This is just a stub (the topic isn't even contentious per se), hoping to improve it with sourced content. Yeah, I had things like Peshawari Naan, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and other culture related stuff in mind ;) --lTopGunl (talk) 12:54, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh, my grace, I saw Nusrat in 1985 in the UK, I have goosebumps just thinking about it, I was reacting to a post on the BLPN board and apparently DS is very hostile about these subjects, so I was trying to find a middle way between the two. I have just posted at the tp of the article, I'm going to remove Bryan Adams but leave the section, ok? As lots of Artists say "omg Paris/Montreal/Tokyo/Jalalabad we love you, you are the best audience in the world". Regards. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 13:03, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Haha... right, this can be filled up with all that, I did some recent searches before thinking of recreating this article (it was deleted at Pakophilia due to its title). This is the interaction ban, so I can't comment on that either. I'll add any article related suggestions on the article talk page... clarified your concerns at the article talk. We can surely work on it to get it to a good shape - your comment about Bryan Adams is reasonable. --lTopGunl (talk) 13:12, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Email

TopGun. Can I have your email? Wiki is blocked in my office and I need to send suggestions about Pak FAC as thats the only time I get to contribute much.September88 (talk) 20:34, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey, there's an "E-mail this user" link in the left side bar when you open my talk page (I guess you'll have to add your own email ID to Wikipedia preferences for that). You'll automatically get my email when I reply to your mail. --lTopGunl (talk) 10:00, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Cool! Never noticed.September88 (talk) 15:20, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Just saw that my email is added in my preference ever since I registered. For whatever reason still not seeing any email option on your talk page. Anyway, lets talk here. Are you ok with the current rephrasing of Republic section with words like atrocities while ignoring things like Bangladesh's India backed gorrila forces attacks on army. The article is at FAC and constant reverts can lead to rejection on 'unstable content' basis. Plus damn time again comes, or I'd be happily spending my day picking out sources and debating. So just wanted to get a second opinion on this matter. Do yo think further material to balance should be added or leave the phrasing as it is, even tho' it seem rather one sided to me. September88 (talk) 15:45, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

It's there, anyway, I've mailed you at yours.. you can reply me now at email if you want. Yes that phrasing is one sided but I don't think FAC will have issues with it as it was added after the nomination. There's no deadline... we can debate on those lines in that section at a slow pace too. And then there are many neutral users at the article who can take care of it. If you think it needs a rephrase, give it one... neutral editors will obviously support a NPOV version, the editwar can be reported at WP:AN3 if it continues. Somehow my rephrasing gets straight up reverts to it. --lTopGunl (talk) 15:52, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Nation of Islam

Hello. There are more than 1500 articles that link to Nation of Islam, meaning the African-American religious movement. I understand that you were being bold, and I applaud you for that, but I think in this instance we should have a move discussion. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 18:58, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for informing me of that. Yes, that was a bold move based on the fact that the term itself has a general/literal meaning on which that religious movement itself is evidently titled. Do you want to start an RFC on the move discussion? --lTopGunl (talk) 20:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

You know, after thinking about it, it's probably okay the way it is now. Tonight I'll run AWB to update the incoming links. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 20:28, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Great. --lTopGunl (talk) 20:44, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Another editor has undone the move, describing it as controversial and saying it should be proposed and discussed. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 18:33, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for informing. I was not watching that page. I'll start a discussion there. --lTopGunl (talk) 18:38, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

When giving out awards...

You might be interested in using WikiProject Pakistan's very own recognition page. Mar4d (talk) 10:26, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh, right... I had a chit chat with the creator of those barnstars once.. I thought they were not listed yet since he didn't reply to that. Btw, I was thinking of getting the project more active maybe creating tasks... sometimes you come across topics you are not interested in yourself... probably others are, an example is the section above :p - so that will improve the coverage. --lTopGunl (talk) 10:32, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Review for Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Ustad Badar uz Zaman

Thanks for ur edits in Article I've submitted. I've learnt a lot from respected editors. Please help in accepting the article so that i may be encouraged to edit and submitt articles of other nature which i think are notable yet are not being added to Wikipedia due to lack of resources or ingnornce. Regards Umerali2204 (talk) 05:20, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

No problem. I improved your references format. I notice that your references 15 to 22 as of this revision [1] are pointing to the Wikipedia pages of some news papers while they should be actually citing the page on those news papers' websites where those awards are mentioned. Pointing to the website's title will serve no purpose, and in anycase Wikipedia can not be cited as a reliable source because anyone can edit it. You should note that Wikipedia's policies for biographies of living people are much stricter than other articles. You can not include almost any content that is not sourced. So you will want to keep your sources in good standing. --lTopGunl (talk) 07:51, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Thats true but the problem was that I cannt find any online newspaper of 1974,75,82,87,99,2001 and all these i have press cuttings of these newspaper, so just pointed them to the wikipedia pages so that the reviewer may come into notice that the references are from renowned newspapers of country, what else can i do for citing those references from press cuttings of those old newspapers/magazines.Umerali2204 (talk) 11:54, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

If you have press cuttings, that is good enough. You don't need online references per WP:SOURCEACCESS, however the references need to be verifiable. You should replace those links to the Wikipedia articles with the date of publication, source name, author and other available details of each source. That will do. --lTopGunl (talk) 12:35, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Just to add

Thanks for adding the unsigned template to my comment on Pro-Pakistan sentiment, I was having a bit of a *discussion* with Darkness euh-hum euh-hum, things seem to have chilled out a bit now. Although Sitush found you to be as wiki-lawyering etc. as DS (cf. talk page comment Salvio[2]), I would just like to say that i appreciated my interaction with you as you appeared willing to listen and to accept (reasonable) modifications. The article as it stands is not too bad, I will remove some more cite tags soon, per my talk page arguments, and try to find some examples of Pakophilia etc. (I have already seen some pages, just need to check that they are RS) to prove that the terms are valid and in use, even if they are not registered in the OED. Okay, that's all for now. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 21:17, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

No problem and thanks for the appreciation. Sitush appears to have an Indian POV in my opinion. The article is in some what better shape now other than the tags. I'll add some content too to expand it to an atleast B class article. --lTopGunl (talk) 21:36, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Pakistani Community

Hi TopGun,
I'm also a Pakistani Wikipedian and had been working on foreign articles. I never knew that any Pakistani community existed till I saw your User-page. I have read it and want to help you out as much as I can in expanding articles on Wikipedia regarding Pakistan. I don't hold any position in Wikipedia, but I have done quite a lot of contribution to Wikipedia and Wikimedia, so I am well aware of the policies here.
First thing I noticed about Pakistani articles is that people do create them but don't tend to update them. So, if you allow me to help you in managing the articles which are listed on your User-page, I would be glad to be of any help.
Kind regards
--Inlandmamba (talk) 06:29, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi, we have a dedicated Wikiproject Pakistan where most members are from Pakistan or interested in Pakistan related topics and work on related articles. Mar4d and SMS above are also Pakistani editors, working regularly on Pakistan related topics (If you like working with templates you can ask Mar4d). You don't need to hold any position or user rights to work on whatever articles that interest you, I'll be glad if you can help with any of the articles listed on my user page. Most of those articles are in serious need of experienced editors. You can pick which ever you'll like to work on - I update them from time to time, can do with some help. --lTopGunl (talk) 09:19, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt response. Though I haven't yet edited any articles on Pakistan, but I'll try my best to do some good work here. I'll prefer doing work on articles, not much of a type of templates :(. Thanks for the appreciation.
Cheers!!!
--Inlandmamba (talk) 17:17, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Great... articles will do. Looking forward to editing with you. :) --lTopGunl (talk) 17:22, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Did some work on Independence Day (Pakistan). What else should be included in it? I can't think of any. For guidance I visited Independence Day (United States), should there be a separate heading on history of how it all started? I think we should start a new page for (Qarardad-e-Pakistan) so that it may emphasize on the importance of Deceleration of Independence of Pakistan. It will also help in upgrading the current article on Independence Day.(Though I am aware of the fact that many articles are already in a need of major up-gradation ;)) What do you suggest?--Inlandmamba (talk) 08:13, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi, that looks better now. Yes, we can give a section about history but just write a summary there and add the main article link for Pakistan Movement on top of the section. Creating Qarardad-e-Pakistan/Deceleration of Independence (Pakistan) will also be a good idea. This can be updated in both the Independence day article as well as the Pakistan Movement article. Start with a few good sources so that it is not put up for deletion. I'll add it to my watchlist and make related updates. We've also nominated Pakistan article to be listed in Wikipedia's Featured articles. You can take a look at the overhaul at its talk page and the FAC listed on top of the talk page and see if you can help in anything that interests you. --lTopGunl (talk) 08:20, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

I have seen the talk page of Pakistan. It seems like a fish market. I think many Pakistanis will already be inline to get the article done. I should do some work on those articles which are in a really poor condition. Article on Pakistan is already TopNotch, work is needed on the poor one's. At least I'll try to make them a bit presentable and add some knowledge to them. After doing some work on the current articles in your To do list, we can make the page for (Qarardad-e-Pakistan), so that the current articles are once again not left in the same list ;). They should become independent and leave the nest. (Qarardad-e-Pakistan) is quite a major topic and will require a lot of time and effort by many editors. I'll try, in the mean while to gather some references for it and at least give it a beginning. But first take into account the already published ones. --Inlandmamba (talk) 11:13, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, there are other editors working to get it to Featured Article, though every now and then some one comes up with a contentious dispute to editwar content into the article. The articles in the to-do list are on my watch list, I'll update them as you take on them so that there isn't too much load. I was previously doing them at a very slow rate. --lTopGunl (talk) 11:21, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Btw, we do have a page for Qarardad-e-Pakistan which is actually Lahore Resolution... just needs some improvement. Declaration of independence seems better covered in Pakistan Movement and Independence Day (Pakistan). --lTopGunl (talk) 14:59, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw it while I was searching for references on Google. It was not even mentioned in the List of declarations of independence so I updated it. I have also linked the Independence day articles "deceleration of independence" back to "Lahore resolution", so that one can easily link it.
--Inlandmamba (talk) 08:47, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I've relinked to Indian Independence Act 1947 which is the actual article for the grant of independence. Lahore resolution was the demand. This clarification should be covered in Pakistan Movement. I've made some improvements so that these are less confusing. Too many very closely related but different articles other wise: Pakistan Movement, Allahabad address, Pakistan declaration, Lahore resolution, Indian Independence Act 1947, Independence Day (Pakistan) & Republic Day (Pakistan). Their content some what overlaps, but currently is not well linked and clarified and one article is linked to instead of the other at times. --lTopGunl (talk) 10:12, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

1999 Pakistan Coup d'etat

Please check out this article 1999 Pakistani coup d'état I have added an infobox on the right hand side. Can you check to make sure that the flags and emblems I've used represent both sides fairly, I haven't used the flag of Pakistan but instead the Flag of the Pakistan army and the emblem of the Pakistan Government. Though I bitterly despised both Musharraf and Sharif I do believe that the infobox is unbiased to those involved in the coup. Please check to make sure everything is correct. Thanks again, (Wiki id2(talk) 13:19, 8 March 2012 (UTC))

I've done some adjustments to the infobox (fixed the date and icons). Though it is being used in Egyptian Revolution of 1952 & Xinhai Revolution but I'm not sure military conflict infobox is suitable for this article. On second thoughts, I've added police to government's side as they were preventing the landing of the plane. Have the same views about both of them btw! --lTopGunl (talk) 16:24, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I think what you've added is correct.
btw I believe that none of pakistan's current politicians can fix the country, I'm pinning my hopes on Imran Khan.(Wiki id2(talk) 16:45, 8 March 2012 (UTC))

Maybe, hopefully. I have my doubts, lol. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:46, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for informing me about the jammu and kashmir human rights thing, I have made the according adjustments which will be very difficult for anyone to challenge :) (Wiki id2(talk) 16:18, 9 March 2012 (UTC))

Yes, those were good edits. You might want to watchlist that article since disputes are still revolving around those and other edits on that page. Your input or editing can help resolve those. Thanks. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:21, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Reply: Balochistan Conflict

For the reference I will try to find some, however on this topic it is genuinely difficult to find unbiased references because there's minimal coverage in the international media, also domestic references are mostly biased either towards the government or towards the insurgents. The conflict is not over but violence has largely subdued since both sides are realising there is no military solution, the process is in a transition phase from military to political talks. (Wiki id2(talk) 16:39, 7 March 2012 (UTC))

Yes, I agree with you on the point, but we'll need to source it up with some reliable sources. I guess there'll be news reports for it? I guess sources wont be having bias about the status of conflict itself. I'll advise looking for media reports. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:44, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I've found two sources and I've added them as reference on the article, for now that's the closest I can find (Wiki id2(talk) 16:47, 7 March 2012 (UTC))

Yeah, I think those can do till some one objects. Thanks for being responsive. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:49, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar. I'm touched :) (Wiki id2(talk) 21:45, 7 March 2012 (UTC))

No problem :] --lTopGunl (talk) 22:19, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Human rights abuses in Jammu and Kashmir

What do you say to developing an article on Human rights in Jammu and Kashmir, covering civilian killings, rape, abuses of human rights, lack of freedom of speech, political oppression etc. and other issues? To start of with, there are numerous articles on this topic covered in Category:Human rights abuses in Jammu and Kashmir but I am thinking about developing a main article. Would you be willing to collaborate (even on an on-and-off basis)? I don't have any specific timing, but I'm thinking after a couple of weeks maybe (after finishing off with the FAC at Pakistan). With the level of mainstream coverage of this topic, I'm sure this can even be turned into a Good Article project. Mar4d (talk) 09:09, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Right, the article has been started by DS after I wrote this message. Mar4d (talk) 12:21, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't matter, you can still contribute in when you've planned to. I can always add to it if not remove. I'm in for it. --lTopGunl (talk) 13:11, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Sigh. That article is fast going down the drain. Mar4d (talk) 13:51, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Maybe you can bring this thread to an admin's attention for what's going on? That would be best. --lTopGunl (talk) 13:55, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Nope, screw this. The idea of the article was to discuss human rights abuses by authorities/security forces but instead, it's ending up like a giant propaganda WP:Coat rack. There's only two solutions for this, taking it to AfD for what it is: A POV coat-rack created in bad faith, or leaving this article in the pathetic condition it's inevitably going to end up and starting a new article altogether: Human rights abuses by the Indian military in Jammu and Kashmir. Mar4d (talk) 14:01, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

No, that would be a POV fork, unless properly first covered in this article. Infact I think this one needs an overhaul soon. Take it to AFD and recreate with the correct content if you want but I think the simpler solution would be to remove the coatrack content and add the correct one. I have further comments on it but I think I can not make those. --lTopGunl (talk) 14:07, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

This is resolved [3]. We can get going with this article now. --lTopGunl (talk) 18:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Maybe an "Indians in Afghanistan" alike RfC will become necessary for that article, when everything continues this way. JCAla (talk) 18:47, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

May be if there's no solution.. but the article is too small at the moment. Lets seriously discuss instead of escalating. I think we can get through on some issues at least. --lTopGunl (talk) 18:52, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Pakistan FAC

It may be going a bit slower than normal, but FAC is unpredictable, sometimes you get a flood of attention, sometimes nobody glances at it. They are usually archived if they get no supports for three weeks, so you have a week or so before you have to worry. I'd suggest that you look up active editors who have brought other countries to Featured or Good article status and ask them to take a look at it. You're allowed to do that as long as you simply ask for a review, not for a support vote. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:54, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for informing me of this Mark. I'll look up. When having the peer review, I saw there was a list of volunteers.. is there such a list for FAC reviewers as well or I'll have to check from FAC histories? --lTopGunl (talk) 16:56, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't know of any good list, I would look here and here for well written country articles and then check the talk page to see who brought them there. Wikipedia:WikiProject Geography might be able to help too, they do have a list of members. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:04, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Great. Thanks. --lTopGunl (talk) 17:05, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi TopGun, thanks for your note. I agree with Mark's suggestion to contact active editors with experience in writing high-quality articles about countries; however, I'm not one of them. :) Although I've been known to work on culture & society articles, my main focus is literature. As such, I'm afraid I wouldn't be of much use to you. My current FAC is moving slower than usual as well, so it's not just you. It can be frustrating, but sometimes there just aren't enough interested reviewers, or those who may be interested are simply busy elsewhere. It never hurts to ask though, especially when it comes to high profile articles such as Pakistan. In future, you could always try to build good will in the FAC community by reviewing other nominations, which helps both your cause and that of others. Best of luck! María (yllosubmarine) 17:54, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for timely response. I've asked some editors but, like you, I don't know their area of interest so I've asked randomly. Yes, we have more workers on the article than reviewers.. so it can probably fixed fast if any notes are left. This is my first FAC, I'm surely planning to comment on others' after I get this done (as I done have much experience with reviewing at the moment). Thanks again. --lTopGunl (talk) 18:01, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Stop

What are you doing here?
I came here to figure out how to do this. Which I just did, thanks. However was not able to post that on your user page chart, so I came here. I also might have made a chess move, were it the world's turn. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 16:59, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I can't understand what you mean by 'stop' or 'what are you doing here'... can you explain what you are referring to? I forgot, you were talking about my edit notice :) ...Btw your move doesn't appear in the editing history, so you'll have to probably wait for the world's turn ;) --lTopGunl (talk) 17:02, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

You got it. I'll wait. I made no move because it seemed to be white's move. Hence no edit history. Carptrash (talk) 16:07, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

It is the world's move now. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:11, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

PS I'm trying to move the pawn at d7 to d5, but can't. Any ideas? Carptrash (talk) 16:14, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

There's a table for chess pieces in the edit form... you'll have to cut the corresponding piece from that location and paste it to the target in the table. The table to note the notations is in the end. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:20, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Ah well, sometime when I'm not consumed with Emil Zettler I'll try it out. My moves may not be the best in the world in any case. Carptrash (talk) 18:08, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Sure. --lTopGunl (talk) 18:14, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Re: Welcome

Thanks much for yours encouragement sir, and I am hopeful you will continue in helping me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwriter786 (talk • contribs) 22:30, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Sure, you can ask on my talk page if you need help in any related topics. You might find some topics of your interest at Wikiproject Pakistan pages, or my user page. --lTopGunl (talk) 22:34, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Pakistan National Barnstar

Barnstar copied to userpage. --11:36, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

		The Pakistani Barnstar of National Merit
		I award you this barnstar for helping to organize the Pakistani wikipedian community to work together and improve the quality of Pakistan-related articles. Wiki id2(talk) 11:14, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks alot for the appreciation :) --lTopGunl (talk) 11:21, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey since your the first person to edit the article after its creation could you provide some feedback on it? NerosRevenge (talk) 13:56, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I've formatted the references. Please make sure that the content is written in your own words and is not a copyright violation. --lTopGunl (talk) 14:02, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

March 2012

Sir I started the discussion on talk page - Talk:Rape in Indian-administered Kashmir. But you removed all my contribution which had inputs from HRW (the same source you used), foreign authors and Muslim authors as well. I had no copyright violations. I am not sock. But you falsely accuse me of these things to remove my contribution sir. This is very unfair. You provide no evidence of POV or copyright violation, but you still remove it all. Awaaz-e-Kashmir (talk) 19:02, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Don't be in a rush. I gave you the reason on the talk page. I'll add further details too. Go slow. And don't editwar or you will be blocked. --lTopGunl (talk) 19:04, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I said you did copyright vio not TopGun "The increase in number of rape cases has resulted in an increased number of abortions, leading to one case of murder of doctor. The doctor was accused of being an informer by the Islamic groups Hezb-ul Mujahidin and Al Jehad" this is the problem and only 3 of your sources seem valid to me NerosRevenge (talk) 19:05, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Indians in Afghanistan

Hi TopGun. Sorry I was away for a week, fortunately, the legal issues were cleared up quickly. Anyhow, I will be monitoring Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Indians in Afghanistan once again and will be finding ways to get more users to comment on the RfC (as I see you've tried to get Mr. Stradivarius and Steven to do). Regards, Whenaxis talk · contribs | DR goes to Wikimania! 02:21, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Thanks alot. --lTopGunl (talk) 09:40, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't think a watchlist notice will do any good, so I've added the discussion to this week's Signpost here and on the community portal. Whenaxis talk · contribs | DR goes to Wikimania! 22:51, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I relisted the RFC as it was not on any list since just after you listed it, can you keep tabs that the bot doesn't take it off the list without expiring again? Btw, due to issues related to content disputes such as this one, I might get a topic ban and won't be able to edit it.. but as of now there are equally good chances of other solutions, I don't think I've disrupted any topics. Anyway, you've been aware of a content dispute as a mediator, may be you can drop your comment on it in that capacity and being uninvolved WP:ANI#Repeated ban vio. As for the signpost, does it do any good? I've never subscribed to it and looks like a mess on others' talkpages too, but I could be wrong. --lTopGunl (talk) 23:00, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Relisting the RfC was a good idea, especially, had the RFC bot removed it. Anyhow, the Signpost is actually read by quite a lot of people, however, I don't know what the coverage will be. Should there be no progress this week, I'll be happy to get a watchlist notice and have it listed at WP:CENT. And, I will definitely take a look at the ANI discussion right now. Regards, Whenaxis talk · contribs | DR goes to Wikimania! 23:05, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for all the help. Looks like I'll have to subscribe to sign post too then and see what all it carries ;) ...that will be a good idea; if there aren't much comments you can add the watchlist notice. ANI's getting a bit TLDR, hope it doesn't bother you but I think aware users might do some good as people think of easy solutions per my experience. --lTopGunl (talk) 23:21, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

No problem. I've made a third proposal that I think is much better suited. Regards, Whenaxis talk · contribs | DR goes to Wikimania! 23:26, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

This was the only reasonable one though too lenient :) - Regards. --lTopGunl (talk) 23:35, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, hard blocks never end well, especially with the progress at the RfC. Whenaxis talk · contribs | DR goes to Wikimania! 23:56, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Couldn't agree more. --lTopGunl (talk) 00:14, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Kashmir on Talk:Pakistan

About a month ago, we had consensus to merge the Kashmir section but it hasn't been carried out. Could you help me out by proposing the changes/where to move the content? The basic plan is on the archived discussion on talk page. Let me know if you have any further suggestions/objections before I carry out the move as per consensus. Mar4d (talk) 12:04, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I support that merge.. I'll help you along with it to place the content (which should mostly go in history and military). But let's keep it on a low priority (as it has not been objected upon either). Too much drama going on at the moment, even at FAC. --lTopGunl (talk) 12:10, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Alright. On a side note, are you busy at the moment? What are you currently working on? I'm going to go and make a few edits to the Pakistan article now, mainly minor tweaks, grammar check etc. Mar4d (talk) 12:18, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Not really busy... just irritated by the drama and thinking of taking a wikibreak. Currently its just the FAC and that ANI thread which I'm working on. Yeah, I added some clarifications to the images in the article. You wanted to replace the slum with agriculture.. go ahead with that too. The chances of a pass are looking thin to me given the first oppose which is some what based on stuff that couldn't get consensus as it was politically charged and other things have even been (or being) fixed. --lTopGunl (talk) 12:23, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Okay, have a rest. Yes, there are some problems in the article which will take time to fix. In the worst case scenario, if this doesn't pass FAC, I don't think it will be the end of the world. We can always go for GA :) Mar4d (talk) 12:42, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, it is A class already in my opinion, let's see. I'll still be making minor edits and tweaks around the article, hoping other reviewers might find it better (go ahead with your tweaks... I'll follow up). --lTopGunl (talk) 12:46, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Something to think about

This is the ip of Darkness Shine 188.29.84.100 if his socks show again you know what to do I will be off now for a break I hope you do not get intimidated by DS and ho toe to his demands be strong your record is FAR BETTER than his and removing his edits are not IBAN 86.182.221.157 (talk) 18:50, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Whenever you read this.. I think Magog's given you a good chance to come back as a register user. The current actions might have reset your 6 month appeal limit, but you can make use of it I think. We do need good users, and I think your editing other than the socking problem is not that bad. --lTopGunl (talk) 23:09, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Your user page

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia.

I noticed that your user subpage at User:TopGun/Chess may not meet Wikipedia's user page guideline. If you believe that your userpage does not violate our guidelines, please leave a note here and we can discuss it. As an alternative, you may add {{Db-userreq}} to the top of the page in question and an administrator will delete it, or you can simply edit the page so that it meets Wikipedia's userpage guidelines. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whenaxis (talk • contribs)

You're a little late to welcome me... five years probably, other than WP:DTTR. But you might notice in the talkpage guidelines, Wikipedia allows some level of freedom to established editors in their user space. See User:Bmusician/chess‎ for example. :) --lTopGunl (talk) 23:07, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough. Still don't really see the purpose, though, since chess games have already been ruled out. Whenaxis talk · contribs | DR goes to Wikimania! 00:30, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Never knew about its existence. I was just bored of the drama going on. --lTopGunl (talk) 00:33, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I see. It's always good to get rid of some stress once in awhile. Whenaxis talk · contribs | DR goes to Wikimania! 00:38, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah. Or probably get a real life, lol. --lTopGunl (talk) 00:40, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Yep. That's what this is for. Whenaxis talk · contribs | DR goes to Wikimania! 00:47, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

User:J.delanoy/chess was nominated for MfD once but resulted in speedy keep. I don't think having chess games in userspace is against the user page guidelines. Bmusician 13:12, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

I am still struggling to figure out how the chess game works and trying to decide if making a move will result in my being blocked from editing by real chess players. Most of my chess ability is genetic. But I am also always amazed about how much energy folks are willing to spend telling other folks what to do on their user pages. Or in many other aspects of life, for that matter. Carptrash (talk) 16:13, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

This is informal, nothing's getting you blocked, so make it if you like... I'll revert if it is invalid and you can re-try. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:17, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, this is what masquerades as humor (humour?) in my life. I am not worried about being blocked. I am worried about my failed attempts to move my knight to c5. Carptrash (talk) 16:23, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Ah, you've to edit the table for that (I've done it for you with this edit [4]).. you only added the notation in the side bar. --lTopGunl (talk) 18:11, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Mushaf Ali Mir Fokker crash

Are you planning to start article on Mushaf Ali Mir Fokker crash? --SMS ^Talk 14:08, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

I was thinking of... after Pakistan FAC and this drama's over probably. Interested? --lTopGunl (talk) 16:22, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes I am, will start soon in my userspace. --SMS ^Talk 17:35, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Great. --lTopGunl (talk) 17:37, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

This is very much discouraging. --SMS ^Talk 08:46, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

I'll revert it back in... that was ridiculous. And when there's one in mainspace we can also create a main article link. If Sitush was watchlisting it, it was one thing, but if he followed up from here, that is clear cut hounding... I'll not comment on this further though. The links were valid by all means. --lTopGunl (talk) 09:42, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Najamkhan16 I can provide pictures and some details of all people who embraced shaadat in Kohat Air Crash. If you are interested in writing an article please count me in too.--Najamkhan 13:53, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks alot Najam, we will definitely need that.. you're welcome to join in. But you'll have to make sure that either you have the copy rights for those images so that you can put them here under sharealike license or you have written permission of the owner which you can link to. The copyrights of any images belong to the photographer... so if you have the permission you'll have to prove it, a linked note from the website of original publisher is good enough usually. Copy right violators get blocked on Wikipedia so just a heads up. --lTopGunl (talk) 13:57, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Re:WP:PAK

Thanks sir for the invite. I have joined that.

I'm still fighting with wiki edits. How come my valid and authentic edits are removed by people/mods and unauthentic information remain posted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Najamkhan16 (talk • contribs) 08:41, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi, make sure that you don't add blogs to your edits... always use reliable sources to back up your claims. If you see that some one else has posted unreliable or unsourced information, you will be in your full right to remove that too. If you are not sure about a source, you can always ask at WP:RSN. If you think you added reliable third party sources for your information and it still got removed, you will have to discuss it on the talk page and ask them why they removed it. Gain a consensus to add it back... you can go to dispute resolution notice board as well as ask other uninvovled editors to comment... ask me if you need any help related to that. --lTopGunl (talk) 09:46, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks sir for your detailed answer, i have got the answer. Thanks! --Najamkhan 13:40, 14 March 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Najamkhan16 (talk • contribs)

You're welcome. --lTopGunl (talk) 13:45, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

RfC

What was the outcome of the failed states RfC on Talk:Pakistan? Was the decision to exclude the mention, in the end? Its just that I can't find any closing comments. Mar4d (talk) 12:13, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

It was never closed, I requested a closure at WP:AN/RFC which is still lying there. It was an unambiguous exclude anyway. --lTopGunl (talk) 12:15, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Right. I'm planning to go ahead and merge the Kashmir section, better to do it sooner while the FAC is still running. Do you have any objections before I carry it out? Mar4d (talk) 12:22, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

None at all that I remember. Just take a look at its overhaul section, for anything to note, which is now in archive 13. --lTopGunl (talk) 12:28, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Okay, but you did mention before that you would be there to help place the content by sorting it into the history and military sections. Do you have any comments to add regarding that i.e. what parts should go where? Mar4d (talk) 12:41, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, it needs to go into history and military section where it is some what already mentioned to be inclusive. There's also a mention in the politics section, if anything can't fit in can be placed there. To be specific, first paragraph mostly belongs to history, and third probably politics? --lTopGunl (talk) 13:17, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Alright, doing this now. Thanks for the feedback, Mar4d (talk) 15:20, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Mahnoor Baloch

Hi TopGun,
I had been working a little bit on the article of Mahnoor Baloch. New users who haven't even registered for an account try making edits and thereby try to put silly stuff. I was wondering if we can put the page up for protection. I had worked on it but these newbies make the article seem like a pervert has written it. No inline referencing and typical stuff like because of her gorgeous looks same as it was written in the article of Ayesha Khan of which I changed the tone. :p
Secondly there is also an article which came to my notice: Nofel Izz. It is being considered for deletion. I think it might be notable and worth stopping it from deletion. It also comes under the Pakistani related discussions [5]. What do you suggest?--Inlandmamba (talk) 18:38, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Haha, if there's persistent IP vandalism you can as for semi protection, however if it is just WP:OR that is the problem, I don't think an admin will agree to protection.. so you'll have to watch list and revert whenever someone adds OR... but you can still try asking at WP:RFPP. I already watchlist all listed deletion debates that come under Wikiproject Pakistan. I think this one is being kept already but I've given my input about the article (don't know how i missed it on the list). --lTopGunl (talk) 09:33, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I just saw your comment at the discussion page. Thanks.
As for Mahnoor Baloch, I also thought that original research won't be given protection and I would have to again and again change the page as the edits from newbies cannot be undone automatically (It gives some sort of error and asks to do the edits manually). Let's hope these newbies come out of their overwhelming imagination that she'll be impressed by their live comments :p--Inlandmamba (talk) 20:14, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Try using twinkle (turn on from your preferences/gadgets)... will be a bit easier to revert all the edits if you think they are unsourced and it still provides input box for revert explaination.. --lTopGunl (talk) 14:08, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Time to delete human rights abuses in azad kashmir?

[6] There is a seperate article for the minor human rights abuses in azad kashmir while Indian pov pushers have merged the article on Human rights abuses in Jammu and kashmir just think the fact that Indias overwhelming human rights abuses deserves more of a article than a merge or we could delete the article above since its non notable as it is ? Naptimes (talk) 13:03, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

I think this article should stay as it was but I'm unable to move it back due to an interaction ban, you can move back your self. If a move discussion is started, I will ofcourse support for the keep as I already am a contributor to that article. --lTopGunl (talk) 14:14, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Merged section. --lTopGunl (talk) 11:53, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

I think its time to merge that article as its WP undue since most human rights abuses occur with Indian occupied territory they changed the title to censor the magnitude of it I am not sure how to delete that azad kashmir article however86.178.24.96 (talk) 21:48, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

See above. The other article should retain the previous name or these should be merged since we have a single article now. A deletion will have to go through AFD, but I doubt it will get any results if you nominate it. --lTopGunl (talk) 11:53, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Re

Hi But that was the previous version of the edit war? I saw in history and I think yes, but if not, agree to roll back.Érico ^msg 21:10, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

The latest version before the IPs' editwar was the one removed by me as there is a separate article for that content. This is actually about a different area in control of another country, no point in adding this here. Rolling back would be in the spirit of WP:BRD as you didn't mean to endorse any opinion. Thanks. --lTopGunl (talk) 21:59, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm neutral on the matter in dispute.Érico ^msg 22:04, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

You'll have to remove the section then as I'm on 1RR. :] --lTopGunl (talk) 23:08, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Restored version of March 18.Érico ^msg 23:13, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

I think you missed some thing... your revert was only 93 bytes.. the content in question is around 7k. Either this [7] version would be the right one to revert to or [8] this one without the first addition of this content. There have been some contributions in between so reverting to the first link would be correct which is the version before IPs came in. --lTopGunl (talk) 23:21, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

The content that is played after editing that removed 7000 bytes, left the previous version of the edit war.Érico ^msg 23:25, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Er, no... the section on Pakistan administered Kashmir was added, I removed it and challenged the content... IPs started editwarring, you reverted it in after that assuming it as vandalism. I'll revert it my self referring to this discussion as you did not have an underlying opinion. --lTopGunl (talk) 23:31, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Fac

What do you say about regentspark suggestion about suspending fac for a while until concerns are met? or let it continue for this time, and fix issues as much as we can now and after? I'm gonna ask him to ce the whole; he's already willing.September88 (talk) 16:27, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

On 2nd thought, let fac continue. Atleast we are getting to know the issues remaining. September88 (talk) 16:33, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, better go with the second option... if it clears, good enough and if it fails, it's not a big deal... we'll know the issues and we can fix them with a lot of time on our hand and renominate after 3 months. --lTopGunl (talk) 20:44, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

FYI: it has been archived now. --lTopGunl (talk) 22:06, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Yep saw. I'll keep on occasionally working on issues raised here and we'll see in 3 months. Plus its better to have RFCs of major pov points in the mean time so they can be presented to conclude if debate arises.September88 (talk) 17:58, 27 March 2012 (UTC)