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Oxford Wikimania 2010 and Wikimedia UK v2.0 Notice

Hi,

As a regularly contributing UK Wikipedian, we were wondering if you wanted to contribute to the Oxford bid to host the 2010 Wikimania conference. Please see here for details of how to get involved, we need all the help we can get if we are to put in a compelling bid.

We are also in the process of forming a new UK Wikimedia chapter to replace the soon to be folded old one. If you are interested in helping shape our plans, showing your support or becoming a future member or board member, please head over to the Wikimedia UK v2.0 page and let us know. We plan on holding an election in the next month to find the initial board, who will oversee the process of founding the company and accepting membership applications. They will then call an AGM to formally elect a new board who after obtaining charitable status will start the fund raising, promotion and active support for the UK Wikimedian community for which the chapter is being founded.

You may also wish to attend the next London meet-up at which both of these issues will be discussed. If you can't attend this meetup, you may want to watch Wikipedia:Meetup, for updates on future meets.

We look forward to hearing from you soon, and we send our apologies for this automated intrusion onto your talk page!

Addbot (talk) 20:08, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:FICT

Please read WP:FICT? Unless a character is a major one, and unless there's reliable third-party sources, articles on characters should redirect to either the show or a "list of characters" article. Cassie Ainsworth doesn't pass notability, and I'm sure others from Skins (TV series) need to be redirected as well. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 16:51, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I've read WP:FICT and I myself am something on avid deletionist. However, flat out redirects aren't a solution. An AfD listing every Skins character article however, could help the community of editors who have contributed to those pages decide to more constructively work on a better "List of characters" page, for example.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 16:59, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry if it seemed rude. But she really isn't notable - pretty much the entire article is written in-universe, and the only references are from the show's website. But if you feel an AfD is necessary, I'll go ahead with that. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:02, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Hm. Maybe I'm wrong. She's listed as one of the "main characters" at List of Skins characters. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Kendra

The Watcher's Guide, vol. 1, page 232 confirms her accent as Jamaican. I remember hearing somewhere, might have been the commentary, that her accent is actually from a specific region of Jamaica (as opposed to Bianca Lawson being a bad actress, which is what I assumed). I'm not sure that article needs to exist, but the category is fine IMO.  Paul  730 04:47, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, my friend and I speculated on that one. I'm sure Simone will play into things later on. Maybe when they make the Ripper spin-off with Giles and Faith (I chose to fool myself into thinking it will get made one day), Simone will be a supporting character.

What do you make of the silly tree people in the latest preview? They've caused some amount of controversy over at SlayAlive amongst people who claim that Buffy is getting too Charmed-y what with all the magical creatures like fairies and centaurs. I think you made a similar comment when "The Chain" came out. I don't have much of a problem with it personally (hello people, does no one remember the dragon in "The Gift"?!). There seems to be focus more on magic this season as opposed to demonic threats; I think they might be introducing benevolent magic creatures like tree people and faires to show that if Twilight succeeds, innocent creatures will pay the price. In fact, with magic about to be outed, I can see some kind of massive Buffyverse "Civil War" between the humans and the magical creatures, with the Slayers caught in the middle.  Paul  730 00:52, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Leprechauns do not exist in the Buffyverse, that's been reiterated by several characters across Buffy and Angel. Lol, I enjoy the irony that somehow leprechauns are too ludricous for the Buffyverse. (They have appeared in non-canon stuff before though, silly writers not doing their research... tsk!) I'm not sure if all creatures are demons by default... I saw your recent edit summary describing werewolves as demons, which I'm not sure was ever confirmed either way. Werewolves are just... werewolves. I actually found the creatures in Charmed somewhat bland. They didn't seem to put much effort into their prosthetic SFX, whereas they demons in Buffy were always very colourful and flamboyant with their appearance. Imagine they introduced a unicorn for Harmony to ride! Although I think I heard Brian Lynch veto that idea on some forum somewhere. Spoilsport.  Paul  730 01:22, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I love the idea of superstar Harmony. It would be the perfect culmination of her non-existent character arc; to become an airhead superficial celebrity. I love how Harmony has no substance to her whatsoever, it's hilarious. I welcome the MMO Buffy game with open arms, but without any real information about it (or if it'll even happen, wasn't there a Marvel Universe MMO game that went nowhere?) I'm not getting my hopes up. Yourself?  Paul  730 01:35, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Buffy video games have a history of being good-but-not-great. Did you ever play Chaos Bleeds? The dustings in that were reallly fun but once the novelty of that wore off there wasn't much to it. I heard the new game will tie into season 8, do you think you'll have to design your own Slayer and battle your way up the ranks of the Watcher's Council?  Paul  730 13:27, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I never owned Chaos, just played it occasionaly at my friends house. Are you going to pick up the new Buffy and Angel today? I'm just about the leave the house.  Paul  730 14:05, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I loved Angel! Wonders never cease, right? Avoid spoilers at all cost, and don't flick through the issue in the store! You have been warned! :P There's a fun scene where Illyria puts Nina in her place (ie, the wall) which I enjoyed because I loathe Nina. Oh, and some rather shocking revelations regarding the Shanshu Prophecy. Buffy was good as always, although I'm not feeling this arc as much as the last few. Gunther proves his mettle in one scene, I totally love him. Saga Vasuki appears in a very confusing scene, and the tree people turn out to be very amusing characters after all.  Paul  730 20:30, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Did you get spoiled? I flicked through it when I got home and nearly died, it was very exciting. Mooney's art is an improvement, too. What did you think of Shanshu Angelus, badass Gunther, and "big picture" Buffy?  Paul  730 17:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I was really worried about Gunther, but it was great how he didn't take shit from Harth at all. I hope he can handle himself against the vamps. I figured Dark Willow was weak because there was no magic in this dimension anymore, the end of magic banished it, so it was difficult for her to muster what no longer existed. Maybe not. Willow's use of Kennedy made me feel really sorry for Ken, she's obviously oblivious to everything that's going on and it reminds me of early season 6 Willow, manipulating Tara. Wes' vision of Angel(us) is very ambiguous. Is it Angelus? Is it Angel really pissed off? Is it complete bullshit sent from the Senior Partners to make Angel give up on his mission? All I know is that it was a shit hot piece of art. Who knew Runge could actually draw? And, uh... what would a mohra do? They can turn vamps into humans but not vice versa I don't think?  Paul  730 17:57, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Ew, no. Spike shouldn't get Shanshu. He's a supporting character, and revels in being a vampire so he wouldn't benefit from it anyway. It would be such a copout. Also... how?  Paul  730 18:04, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, you mean mohra + Spike = human. Right, gotcha. I thought you meant mohra could turn Angel back into a vamp-with-a-soul. Yeah, Cordy was very Cordy in this issue. I was kind of against her appearing in AtF because I thought Lynch would butcher her the way he butchers Fred, but she was actually pretty good. Someone on SlayAlive pulled Lynch up for his bad Fred writing, asking if it was deliberate, and he totally dodged the issue.  Paul  730 18:29, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I thought it was all Nina, just at different points in time. Guess Nina had pink hair at some point? Doesn't explain why she's in the Hyperion at all those points. Whatever, Illyria's powers confuse me. Btw, are you watching Ugly Betty tonight? I don't think I will, I gave up on that show a while back. It's not bad, but it's not really great, is it?  Paul  730 19:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Huh, thought you were an Ugly Betty fan for some reason. How presumptious of me. :P Yeah, I keep hearing good things about Dexter. Might check out the DVDs, I've never seen it.  Paul  730 21:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

TV

Hmm, should I watch it online when I get a chance or wait for the DVD? Decisions, decisions. What do you mean by her "liquidness"? Sounds like she has some freaky T-1000 powers or something? Aw, everyone loves a Scottish accent. :P Never heard of True Blood... I've not read SvD, but it got pretty good reviews and Peter David's Illyria one-shot was enjoyable. I wouldn't expect to see same campy Dracula from Season Eight though, from what I've seen he seems like very much a straight man.  Paul  730 20:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you fucking shitting me? Like, actually? OMG, I fucking love T-1000s. :D  Paul  730 22:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Lol, you totally spoiled me you bastard. Oh well, I'm sure I would have stumbled across it eventually. I've watched the scene where she morphs out the urinal and kills the guy, pretty cool I must say. This show just got so much better. I always thought the Robert Patrick T-1000 was a unique prototype, one of a kind. Now Sarah etc will be totally screwed, literally anybody they meet could be out to kill them.  Paul  730 23:42, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

You're making me want to watch it online... maybe tommorrow. It's weird how all the Terminators in this have given names... is Cromartie in the premiere?  Paul  730 23:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I heard that. I love Cromartie, Bignole says he has a stupid voice. :( Is Charlie a regular? I hope he doesn't turn out to be Jenny Calendar, the one who doesn't become a regular and gets killed off.  Paul  730 00:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I like Charlie. At first I found him rather sinister for some reason, but now I'm quite fond of him and want more screen time for him. I think he works well as a Mickey Smith-type character, a normal person who wants nothing to do with the sci fi wackiness but helps out anyway because he loves the other characters (and ew, Derek and Sarah can't hook up!).  Paul  730 00:08, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Kyle/Sarah 4ever! She can shag about all she wants, but her love for Kyle must remain pure! Sorry, normally I hate shippers but Kyle and Sarah are an exception along with Cyclops/Emma and Tom/Lynette. I'm hypocritical like that. And Brian Austin Green is very sexy. How come you're talking about 90210 in the present tense, didn't that show end years ago?  Paul  730 00:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Jesus Christ, it looks awful but I'll refrain any real judgement since I know next to nothing about it. Do you watch every single show on TV? :P  Paul  730 00:34, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Lol, it just seems like you know and watch all these shows I've never heard of. Meh, it just looks a bit American Pie: Band Camp but you have pretty good taste in fiction so I'll take your word for it. I gave The O.C. a chance and found it excruciatingly boring.  Paul  730 00:41, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Never watched either of them. I like Luke Perry though, he's the only thing which makes the Buffy movie watchable.  Paul  730 01:06, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I watched the Terminator premiere and was really impressed. Cameron was really scary on her mission to kill John, and the scene where she begs for her life was surprisingly emotional. It managed to capture the adrenaline of the first two movies without feeling like T3-style retread. The best episode of the show so far. :) EDIT: OMG, we were right!!  Paul  730 17:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm so happy about it. Saw on here first and thought it might just be a wiki-rumour so went to check and was delighted to have it confirmed. I'm relieved she's in Season Eight and not AfF.  Paul  730 22:50, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Harmony was brilliant in Angel season five. One thing I love about Harmony is that she never changes; compare her and Cordelia's arcs from the pilot to now. Cordy is almost unrecognisable (in a good way) and Harmony is exactly the same, albeit a vampire. That's the joke. No matter what happens she'll never learn from anything, she's too stupid. I always thought it would be funny if she appeared in Fray, having not changed a bit in 200+ years. As for inconsistant, as Cordelia put it, Harmony's a sheep. She's good when she's with Team Angel and she's bad when she's with Hamilton. She's just a dumb bitch basically, and I love her for it.  Paul  730 23:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Atf picks up a few months after season 5, like a potential season 6 would have. So it's 2004, probably into 2005 if the story is a year long in-universe. I guess time is moving the same in hell as it is on Earth, since George's Asylum buddies picked up his message? Dunno. Season Eight is deliberately vague; I remember Scott Allie comparing it to Marvel's floating timeline. They claim it's a year and a half after season 7 but I'd go with a couple of years, maybe longer, judging from Dawns-in-college, Xander's year-with-Drac, and the pop culture references. There's nothing that seems to set "a year and a half" in stone.  Paul  730 00:44, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Lol, Joss trying to be all cagey a week after they reveal Harmony on the cover. (Or am I just late in reading this article? Whatever). Ooh, Buffy and Andrew interaction (hopefully), I love their relationship. And what the fuck do Ken and Satsu have in common besides the obvious? Hmm, "werewolf community"... interesting. So long as they use the cool "Phases" werewolves and not the silly later ones it's all good. Excited as always, and nice to hear Joss directly commenting on the series since we haven't heard much from him since the "I'd bin it all for a movie" comment. Hmph. Spike #3 was pretty good, btw. It had more Spider in it than I'd like, but we had an unexpected appearance from Gunn which was fun. Not loving Non the supposed "Big Bad" (that's generous), and Fred was her usual no-show, but otherwise cool.  Paul  730 22:11, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Does Buffy even know about W&H? Since when has she ever shown an interest in Angel's activities before? And Andrew's word means feck all. I doubt Harmony will make much mention of her time on Angel for fear of alienating those who don't watch that series. (Then again). ToYL isn't out yet you greedy bastard. Oh, and to answer your previous question, no the Buffy article is nowhere near GA or FA, and Faith is possibly GA. Are you going to nominate Jack again? I know I said I'd do it, but that was months ago and I still havn't got around to it.  Paul  730 22:23, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

How?? The Jack article has like a zillion third-party sources. The Buffy and Faith articles fail to establish notability, almost all of their OOU info comes from the creators. Plus, the Buffy article is three quarters plot info, there's hardly any OOU info at all. The Buffy article is really quite feeble considering I've been "working" on it for well over a year. Especially since Bignole's been churning out far better Smallville character articles every other day. Trust me, the Jack article is better. What makes you think it's not FA?  Paul  730 22:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

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Smallville

Best in years? No. LOL, you must not have appreciated some episodes last year, or in season six. Last year's "Apocolypse" was one of the best in that year, as well as "Descent" and the ending of "Gemini". It was better than I had expected. I kind of liked the quippy Clark, especially the final scene with him and Lois at the Daily Planet. Yeah, I agree about Chloe but not with Lana. Lana's importance steamed from the start, and that was that it was clear she would be the driving wedge between Lex and Clark's friendship. That's massively important, even if she didn't have a lot of things to actually do in episodes. Yeah, I almost hinged on that being a copout to explain away her hacking skills, but I let it slide. It seemed to be in much fuller force this time around though. I must say, Alaina Huffman looks good as a brunette..lol. I enjoyed their scenes, even the last scene with them all meeting in Metropolis with Clark. I didn't like them taking away John Jones' powers, and I hope they find a way to bring them back. I loved how they used the Superman II plot device--having the crystal that created the Fortress survive its destruction so that it could create it again--and I think that will make an interesting arc (hopefully, better than that Kryptonian black box in season six that lasted all of 3 episodes). I'm sad to see Al/Miles go, but I think their departure really did make the team start thinking outside the box and it benefited them. Let's up they can keep it up for future episodes and not slack off.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 17:28, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Doctor Who (Spin Of Companions)

June is the companion as it stats on the book the doctor enlist her in The Slitheen Excursion. should be added as a companion, but agree with the deletion until the book is released {Ucebaggie (talk) 19:52, 28 September 2008 (UTC)}

Can you re-add this with a hide until 06/04/09 comment as this is when the book is released {Ucebaggie (talk)}.

Cordy

Your Cordelia sandbox is looking great, great job so far. I've got a bit of info from my DVDs and magazines that I keep meaning to add, but forget to do so. What episode commentaries were you looking to transcribe? How raging are you about the Season Eight delay, btw, it feels like this arc is never going to end.  Paul  730 20:48, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if all those episodes have commentaries, the Angel DVDs are pretty stingy. I'll give them a watch at some point if they do. Don't have a scanner, sorry, but it's less about Cordelia and more about Charisma's life and career; the extent to which she talks about Cordy is already in your sandbox. I checked the Watcher's Guide for info on Bianca and they didn't mention her auditioning for Cordelia, best to leave it out for now if we can't find a decent source. Maybe the Internet Archive has old Buffy-related news articles? Not hugely familar with that site but it's worth a look. Not been keeping up with Terminator, but I am looking forward to new South Park this week. I recently bought seasons 1 - 6 on DVD and have watched barely anything else for like two weeks.  Paul  730 13:47, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Lol, you're such a geek. What are you doing at uni anyway, besides getting drunk and whoring around? :P  Paul  730 20:05, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Lol, thanks for clarifying English as "books and stuff". Well, hope everything goes well for you. I'd like to go to uni for the experience but I'm kind of academically challenged.  Paul  730 20:15, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I know, I'm only kidding. :) Where are you living now, in a dorm, with friends?  Paul  730 20:26, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Lmao, well, if you can't be a... host in college, when can you.  Paul  730 20:35, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh my god, shut up!!! I've not read it yet but I heard Spike got staked (but isn't necessarily dead). Would have got it today but I had a bloody opticians appointment. What did you think of it (no spoilers!). Oh, and how have you been in general, we've not spoke in a while? How's uni?  Paul  730 16:46, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Grr, I feel so out of the loop. Are the deaths well-handled? Is Spike out as well? Glad you're enjoying uni, I figured you were busy cause your edit count was pretty low. Imagine having a life outside of Wikipedia, for shame! :P  Paul  730 17:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I bought Angel. It was good, but the deaths weren't as significant as I expected. Gwen's was sad and genuine, even though I don't care for the character. Spike's "death" was cop-outty, but thank goodness for that. If I hadn't been spoiled, I would have been really pissed when I saw him get dusted. As for Fred, well, she's already dead to me so I couldn't give two hoots about her. Although I guess that means Illyria as we know her is dead too? If she's gone all Old One... :( Angel's epiphany (how many has he had now?) was fun, as was Cordy's every-welcome prescence. Some nitpicks though; how exactly did Spike come back? There seemed to be no reason for his death other than empty shock value. Also, how come Gunn knew Connor was "broody as usual" but didn't know who he was? The whole Connor memory-wipe thing is a mess. And why does everyone talk to themselves? Has Brian Lynch never heard of inner monologues?  Paul  730 16:55, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

That does sound good. Glad to see Simone isn't going to be a loose plot thread, and Buffy/Andrew interaction is always classic. Have you read the last issue of Spike btw?  Paul  730 13:24, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Tut tut Liam, between this and this, I think you may be in violation of WP:VAIN. ;) Lol, look at you being all notable and Wikipedia-worthy. :P  Paul  730 02:15, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Wow, you live in a soap opera. The only thing my school was ever really notable for was having a couple of pervy teachers who had affairs with students. One of them taught me art, he was actually pretty cool (not saying I approve...) Lol, you should make it your mission in life to become notable enough for a Wikipedia article... through any means necessary! :P  Paul  730 03:36, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Buffy template

The one you removed the speedy tag from was originally too big. The coding was replaced to make it smaller, but we realized that we had already started using Template:Buffynav, which is the same nav box. So, we opted to delete the other one. If you look at that one, and Template:Buffynav, you'll see they're the same thing.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 18:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

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WikiProject LGBT studies Newsletter

This newsletter was sent by §hepBot (Disable) at 21:30, 12 November 2008 (UTC) by the request of Moni3 (talk)

Buffy #19

What did you think of it? I'd really lost interest in this story arc, too many delays killing the pacing, but the latest issue was brilliant. Won't say any more in case of spoilage but tell me what you thought.  Paul  730 19:31, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I loved the panel of Willow's death, so beautiful and tragic and scary (Willow looked like a monster!). And the panel where Our Willow saves Buffy just as she disgards Future Willow's body, love the irony. I think "only decent issue" is a little harsh, the arc has been pretty good, just ruined by the delays. I have no patience for Joss's delays whatsoever. Astonishing X-Men and Runaways were killed by delays, you need to get your issues out on time or the story will suffer. Pacing and all that. I think ToYL will be stronger as a TPB.

What do you mean by "Briley, urgh"? I like the idea of Buffy staying in touch with Riley as a friend, he's her old reliable. It's sad that he's betraying her, but I also think it's pretty cool, another side to the character. How is Warren a foil for Giles?

I disagree that the latest Angel trumped Buffy. I'm tired of trying to make sense of the nonsensical story and Lynch's silly one liners are irritating. The idea of Illyria ending all of time is cool, and Cordelia's brief return was amazing, but I just wish the series would end already.  Paul  730 21:20, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I've seen the cover for #17 and it's already my desktop background. I saw the Aftermath cover... werecheetah, huh? I might buy a couple issues out of curiosity but I won't count it as canon. I knew IDW would milk the Angel franchise dry and without Joss' involvement, it means nothing to me. I am being harsh on AtF but I just think the series has been unsatisfying. I'm sure the whole thing will work better when I read my hardbacks from start to finish but right now I'm tired of it. Whereas Season 8 feels like a well-oiled machine, both the plotting and artwork of Angel has felt rushed and messy. What didn't you like about ToYL?

I thought the Charmed reference was wonderfully bitchy. I haven't seen the Cole/Phoebe eps (got into that show after Cole's death) so I can't comment. It is a problem I have with Torchwood and to a lesser extent Doctor Who though; storylines that Buffy would take seasons to develop are rushed through. Captain John for example. It's like they want to copy Buffy but are too lazy to really earn it. Haven't a lot of shows done a "Normal Again" episode, it's quite a cliche?  Paul  730 01:48, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Also, Jack's original con man-to-hero arc in the space of 3 or 4 episodes, Mickey's transformation into the Terminator, and Tosh and Owen's deaths after just two seasons. I think DW gets away with it more than it's spin-offs because of the more epic fantasy setting and the implication that there are many unseen adventures between episodes. I'm disappointed Maria is gone from SJA, it'd be nice for one of the shows to hold onto a character for more than two seasons.  Paul  730 23:56, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I haven't watched the season, I'll wait for the DVDs. I was a bit annoyed Maria was written out, but I'm glad to hear she isn't forgotten. Hopefully there will be a third season. How's the new girl working out?  Paul  730 00:48, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad she's working out. Think she'll stay on, or be discarded once Maria comes back? Yeah, I looked at the articles for those episodes before, they look great. It's nice they're continuing villains from season one and DW, giving it sense of continuity.  Paul  730 00:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

That's what I mean, I'd like to see all of these characters grow up but they always seem to die/get written out before it happens. Tosh and Owen died before their time IMO, although their deaths were excellent. I remember the bird who played Tosh saying what an arc the character had, but when you compare her to Willow or Wesley, it's not that noticeable. Seeing the SJA kids grow up in the manner the Buffy kids did would be amazing, but unlikely. At the very least, it'd be fun to see one of them grown up via time travel in DW.

Sorry, but I disagree. SJ going all Torchwood on the aliens would be against the show's themes. It's not so much about it being a kids show as about the character's principles, it'd be like Superman killing someone. The Doctor has a darker side I don't think SJ shares, so I can cope with him being more agressive. I'm don't like how every alien in TW seems to be evil and deserving of death. DW is a nice balance between it's spin off's extremes.  Paul  730 01:12, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Lol, it would be hilarious for Jack to just shoot that damn little Graske through the head. He's had a few appearances through the shows, mainly in annoying "special" episodes, and it would be a funny ending for his character. Your TW episode plan sounds interesting and not entirely implausible. The "what could have been" plot device is a little tired, but always entertaining. I remember Elizabeth Sladen saying if they did a TW/SJA crossover, the TW team would have to watch their language. Lol. I think they were going to do a Dalek TW episode but were worried kids would watch it.  Paul  730 01:29, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

RTD lies a lot in interviews, so the Dalek thing could be mislead. Weren't the Daleks the ones who attacked Jack's home world? It was never confirmed, but that's the implication I got. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw them again. Yeah, I remember RTD saying season 3 is as dark as he wanted to get on DW. Which is fair enough, for that show, but it'd be fine for TW. RTD also said, as much as he loves Buffy, the dense mythology of the Buffyverse isn't something he ever wants to do with with the Whoniverse. He prefers it to be accessible for casual viewers, and was concerned "Utopia" was too continuity-heavy for non-fans. Again, I think keeping it monster-of-the-week is fine for DW, but TW should be concerned with building it's own mythology and continuing storylines. Which Children of Time seems aimed to do, from what I've heard.  Paul  730 01:42, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I haven't heard much about CoE, how do you know about a cell? Is there a trailer out or something? I'd love to TW do a big meaty Angel season 4-type arc but I guess CoE is the best we'll get. Do we know if they'll be any new characters in it, the TW team is kind of depleted.  Paul  730 06:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm still pissed off that Martha won't be in it. That girl needs some storylines already! She went from being my favourite character to a total non-entity. Hopefully we'll see Mickey and maybe a new character or two, but as long as there's some good development for the existing three I'll be happy.  Paul  730 13:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

6 Dec

At Harmony myspace? Is it fan created, or some kind of official tie-in to the "Harmonic Divergence" arc? Sounds funny though, I can imagine Harmony having a myspace, do you have a link? I'm not currently in a "Buffy mood" so I'm not planning anything for the article at the moment... it's certainly not finished yet. I'm kind of intimidated by it's potential, tbh, afraid I won't do the character justice. Any sources you have would be great, thanks, just send them to paul730buffyverse@yahoo.com. I have a PDF article that Erik sent me over a year ago, I just haven't got around to sifting through it for the relevant info yet. You know me, always the procrastonist.

Btw, I'm re-watching TW and SJA on DVD, and I have to say that Sarah Jane is by far the better programme. It's much more entertaining and comfortable in it's own skin, and it feels more in line with the themes of DW. Some of the early TW episodes are so bad it's embarrassing. I've noticed that Torchwood (esp Gwen) seem to kill more innocent people via their own stupidity than they actually save.  Paul  730 21:35, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Queen C

Wow, it's finished, well done. You and Bignole are totally shaming me when it comes to churning out these sandboxes. I'd be happy to look it over in detail sometime tonight. Btw, I picked up a Torchwood guide book, one of those unofficial ones that have loads of analysis. Should have some good info for the Jack article; during a quick flick, I found a section discussing the various similarities he has to Angel.  Paul  730 18:29, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Here's the Jack/Angel stuff.

Similarties between Jack and Angel, the heroic vampire from America's Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel, have been noted. Alan Stanley Blair of SyFy Portal pointed out that "Back alley fights, knowledge of the paranormal and an unwanted task of defending the helpless are only a few of the correlations between the two characters."

I'm not sure where to place it?. I'm watching TW series 2 on DVD (I'm in such a Whoniverse mood right now :D) and reading the book after each episode. It's interesting to read proper analysis on the series' themes from an articulate author who likes the show.

I read your Cordy article and I have to say, well done! :D Especially on those academic sources, they really add some meat to the article. And good job integrating them into the article since they look like pretty heavy reading. Right now I'd say almost all the content we need is up there, the article just needs a bit of sprucing up. It's a bit wall-of-words at the moment, I think some quote boxes are in order to brighten it up! :P One thing you might want to think about is moving some stuff into a reception section, I think that's a criteria Bignole had to meet in his Smallville character GARs. I'll add more detailed opinions on specific areas of the article tomorrow when I get back from work. :)  Paul  730 22:17, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, fraid that's all the Jack/Angel stuff I could see. Sorry to get your hopes up if you thought there was more (although there might be, I haven't read the whole book). I cited both the book and the original source; the book contains quotes from reviews and fansites and that was one of them.

I'd argue that the Characteristics and analysis section already contains reception information. We'll see how it goes, it might not be an issue. Here's where Bignole discussed it at Talk:Clark Kent (Smallville)/GA1.  Paul  730 14:53, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Review

Here's that specific criticism I've been promising for a few days now. It's also a bit of a to-do list, since I've listed things that I plan to do myself.

• Entire Appearances section requires sources, which you already know. ;)
• Literature section is a little skimpy... any more Cordy-centric stories out there? I remember a Dark Horse comic one-shot. I'll mention her faux "return" in Angel: Old Friends, since I was fool enough to buy the graphic novel (David Messina is an evil temptress!) Should also find out and identify as such her first appearances in literature...
• I remember something about Cordy being based (and possibly named? might be making that up) on a girl Joss Whedon knew in high school. Will check the Welcome to the Hellmouth commentary.
• "Kelly A. Manners describes Cordy as a "rich gal whose family ended up losing everything to the IRS. So in episode one of Angel, Cordy showed up in LA trying to start a career as an actress because her family was in jail, actually."" Lacks a source, although I think I remember it from the "I'm Cordelia" feature on the Angel S1 DVD?
• "While it was later established Cordelia was possessed by the evil entity known Jasmine." Odd sentence, neither leads from or into another.
• "Much of season four's storyline had to be adjusted due to Carpenter's real-life pregnancy; after Cordelia is revealed to have been possessed Carpenter portrayed Cordelia in a coma for the remainder of the fourth season after giving birth to Jasmine who had been possessing her in the episode "Inside Out"." Source that the story was adjusted? I know it seems like a given, but without a source, but for all we know Cordy was always meant to get pregnant whether Charisma was or not.
• ""OK, Spike's a hero, and you're CEO of Hell, Incorporated. What freakin' bizarro world did I wake up in?"" Not sure this is an appropiate quote, it's more relevant to Angel or Spike's arc or the general season five status quo. What about "Don't make it hard, Angel. I'm just on a different road... and this is my off-ramp. The Powers That Be owed me one, and I didn't waste it. I got my guy back on track." instead?
• The article could use some general copy-editing, but that's something that will develop the more people read it. One thing to look out for are UK/US spelling differences, I'm pretty guilty of that.

Again, great job! I think you more than deserve this:

		The Buffyverse Barnstar
		For finding and integrating so many academic sources into Cordelia Chase, transforming it from an in-universe mess into an excellent fictional character article. :D  Paul  730 16:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

 Paul  730 16:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for giving one of my favourite characters an article that does her justice. Don't worry too much about the copy-editing, like I said, it's something that happens gradually. You and I could read the article ten times and miss something a new reader noticed straight away. The Riley article looks really promising from the raw sources you have so far. I always thought he'd be one of the harder articles to write since he's one of the lesser known characters. Of course I'll be happy to help out where possible, I'll flick through the Buffy magazines I own for Blucas interviews. What made you choose Riley?  Paul  730 16:19, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I think I remember Blucas saying that reading the fans hate mail shattered his confidence, I'll try and find it. I enjoyed Buffy, the artwork was beautiful the whole thing was funny as hell. I think it might have benefited if the animation pilot had been leaked after the issue, then the dialogue wouldn't have felt so familiar. Overall, it seemed to me like a well-deserved slap in the face to all those fans who whine that Buffy should be more like the early seasons, where everyone was friends and everything was lighthearted. It was like Joss saying, "Look, the old seasons were great and we love them, but this is Buffy now and if you don't like it just shut the fuck up and go and watch season 2." Or maybe that's just me channeling my own emotions into the comic. ;) It was just a fun nod to the good ol' days and I liked it. Angel was brilliant, possibly the second time that AtF has trumped S8. Both Illyria and Connor die?! That's amazing, and I wouldn't expect anything less from the finale of Angel. Connor's death was very touching, I like how they made me love the character before snatching him away from me. How very Joss. And I loved his inspirational last words to Angel. The whole Illyria thing made it seem like the terrible Fred characterization was deliberate from the start, I think that might have been more effective in live-action to be honest, with Amy Acker playing a Fred-who's-not-quite-Fred. It's okay though, and retroactively makes up for what I assumed was bad writing at the time. I count all of Lynch's Spike series as canon now. Why not.  Paul  730 17:00, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Lol, poor Groo, I forgot about him. He died off-panel, so that's probably why. Wow, Groo and Gwen were total canon fodder in this series, weren't they. How the hell did Nina survive, is she still crying in the hotel about getting her arse kicked by Illyria? God I hate her.  Paul  730 17:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Or maybe Lynch just forgot about her five issues ago. If she doesn't reappear, I'll just make it canon in my head that she was killed by the fucking ludicrous dragon-plane things. I read both Oz: Into the Wild (good) and Queen of the Slayers (terrible) so I always imagined Oz would become an extremely-Zen Buddhist monk person with full-control over his wolf-powers. The fact he went to Tibet is canon, so it think it would be cool to incorporate a lot of Chinese spirituality into the character, especially to balance out the military side of the series with Twilight. I won't mind if he's with anyone, but I don't need him to be. I'd like him to have a very focused mission and lead his own gang, as if he's being living in his own non-existant spin-off. The problem is, that's kind of predictable and has been done already in non-canon stuff. I'd like to be surprised.  Paul  730 17:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I hope she keeps the Buddhist aspect of the character hinted at by "New Moon Rising" but adds a few unexpected elements. I didn't even know about TW and SJA ending and am kind of conflicted now that you've told me. On one hand, it makes the 2005-2009 era of DW more special, on the other it doesn't really allow the spin-off shows to develop their own mythology. So long as they are given appropiate endings, I can live with it. I've really made my peace with the fact that "my" era of Doctor Who is probably over. I might still enjoy the show after Tennant leaves, but it just won't be the same. It's okay though, it's been a brilliant run and the show has to move on. I hope maybe Torchwod can be revived in the future like DW was, since we know the organisation exists long into the future.  Paul  730 18:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I doubt Jack will become Boe in any contempory story, it would be extremely random in TW for Jack to suddenly turn into a huge never-before-seen alien head. Maybe hint at Boe in the last season, or even feature him via time travel, but don't depict the transformation onscreen. I always thought that he evolved into Boe gradually? His comments about ageing in DW... Any TW continuations would be cool, I'd like to see an older John Barrowman return to the role in a future-set story with Captain Jack having only aged a decade in like a million years. Also, while I'd like to see a definitive ending to the Sarah Jane character in her own series (although not death), I'd like to see the younger characters reappear down the line. Maybe have Rani be a DW companion or something since she's meant to be SJ Jr. Also, am I the only one who thinks IDW are missing out on a gold mine by not publishing The Doctor's Daughter and Captain Jack (set pre-TW) comic book series? Instead of running Angel into the ground, they could do something original with another lisence.  Paul  730 18:32, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

They have the DW license, wouldn't that come with all the characters within? They could either feature Jack as a rogue Time Agent or a freelance agent of Torchwood, or alternate been both. Jack's timeline is confusing but also creatively fertile, it would be better than trying to write TW stories between episodes of the TV show. And if any future stories contradicted the Jack series, it can be explained away as "time is in flux" and history can change. That's how Sarah Jane gets away with all those pre-SJA stories which depicted her as married, etc.  Paul  730 18:42, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey, just stopping by to say merry Christmas. You looking forward to "The Next Doctor"?  Paul  730 20:04, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, apparently all ten Doctors feature in some capacity. Not sure how that's going to work, but wouldn't mind seeing flashbacks to the classic series, possibly with some fan-angering digital alterations to make it match the current regeneration SFX. Looking forward to it regardless (saw squee-inducing trailer for it on TV tonight, Rosita looks like a laugh) but worried I might not make it home in time to see it. Stupid family.  Paul  730 23:31, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Post Xmas

So what did you think of "The Next Doctor"? I missed it, as I predicted, and had to watch it the next day on BBC iplayer. I'd describe it as disappointing, but enjoyable. Felt cheated by the fact he wasn't a Time Lord, and it felt a bit uneventful for a Xmas special, but the CyberKing was fun.  Paul  730 15:44, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

In what way was it let down by accessibility? I too love all the heroes the Doctor is creating through time and space... he's the man who makes people "better". :D It's such a feel-good series. Are the current Whoniverse novels really that bad? I've been quite impressed by some of the fancy covers but could never be bothered reading them. I thought Mercy was a bit rubbish to be honest, what the fuck was her motive? And why did the Cyberman answer to her instead of just killing? I don't know whether I wasn't paying attention at that bit or if it just wasn't explained. She wasn't awful but not very memorable either, rather like the episode as a whole. There's loads more stuff from that book I haven't added yet... there's a nice critique of Gwen where he describes her as one of the verse's best characters due to her moral failings. The only thing I'm iffy about is the quotes from fans. Their opinion has been published, does that make them notable? How would we discuss them in prose? "A fan who's opinion was published in a book" is too much of a mouthful and they're credited by screen names?  Paul  730 16:41, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I kinda vaguely got the impression she was a prostitute but as you say it wasn't very clear. Your observations actually make the episode sound better. Why were the Cyberman following her though? Was it something to do with the infostamp things? I'll start with that Gwen stuff now, not sure how much there'll be once I paraphrase it. Yeah, there's loads of Gwen-hate in that book from fans, one has actually written a list of her dumbest moments and the various innocent people who died as a result. A lot of it is pretty valid, I'm not a huge Gwen fan myself (Eve Myles is excellent though). She is worryingly unqualified, what the hell is her job description besides "heart of the team"? Hmm, I'll have a look for the Jack stuff. There might be something in the "Sleeper" analysis, since he's such a dick in that episode. My book only covers season 2, which is annoying. I want the season 1 one as well.  Paul  730 17:02, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Your Costello "Graduation Day" reference

Hey, I just thought that I'd let you know that something went wrong when you tried to add that comment by Elvis Costello on the "Graduation Day" article. The reference lists registers a cite error, and also what you wrote lacks clarity. I would fix it myself, but I do not know the reference. Just thought I'd tell you. kingdom2 (talk) 04:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Eleventh Doctor

What are your thoughts on the new Doctor?  Paul  730 19:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Meh. I don't wish to be a Negative Nancy but I'm not impressed. Seems like instead of going for the anti-David, someone completely new and different, they've went for Junior-David. He's got the hair, the big nose, the "odd handsome-not-handsome" vibe. It all seems very derivative of Tennant and I'm not sure that's the right way to go, because Tennant is THE Doctor. I'll give this new boy a chance but I can see myself being a stubborn fanboy about this.

What did you think of Demons? Again with the negativity but I thought it was a load of rubbish. :P  Paul  730 20:36, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Lol, I'm so glad you hated it as well, I was holding back a little in case you liked it. It's such a shameless Buffy rip-off... old man tells teenager that he/she is descended from a long line of Slayers (sorry, Smiters!) and said teenager must now fight monsters on a weekly basis with the help of plucky human sidekick(s) and mysterious immortal love interest. The demons themselves were embarassing, especially the CGI monkey thing, and the whole thing is horribly bland. Do you think you'll keep watching it, if only for superficial reasons? :P  Paul  730 20:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I actually did pick up a gay/bi vibe from Luke but maybe that's because he had the exact same purple hoodie that my (very gay) best friend always wears. Yeah, everything was inverted to make it different from Buffy. I read an interview in the TV magazine where Glenister more or less admitted it was a Buffy rip-off. At least Torchwood, for all it's flaws, actually contributes something unique to the sci fi genre in that it has a bisexual lead and explores territory that other fantasy shows don't. I was actually reading a chapter in that book I have about how TW was more original and groundbreaking in it's first season, and then became blander and more conventional sci fi in the second. I didn't necessarily agree with it, but it was interesting nonetheless. Demons seems to have nothing original whatsoever to offer other than another fantasy show on Saturday evenings.  Paul  730 21:12, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Skins naming

Hey Zythe, re our recent edits to Template:Skins. I agree that usually fictional character pages go simply by their usual name, but for Skins all the characters so far use their full names (eg Effy Stonem, Sid Jenkins, Michelle Richardson). Unless you're willing to move all these pages to Effy (Skins) etc, I think it's best we stick with the current format for consistency. To this end, JJ's real name is given as Jonah Jeremiah Jones, indicating the first two names = JJ, and Jones is his surname. Would this be ok with you? Pretzels^Talk! 17:31, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

That would be okay, but I worry somebody else will go ahead and create the article at one of the two names before that date. By your own logic, if Effy's page is correct at Effy Stonem, JJ's page should be at JJ Jones. There is policy on this but it's not very helpful this time. Pretzels^Talk! 18:26, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Pedantry is healthy! I believe the JJ is an abbreviated form of his first name only, Jonah Jeremiah. Pretzels^Talk! 20:41, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Women warriors in literature and popular culture

I just wanna say that I approve of what you done there in that article. Thanks. FaithLehaneTheVampireSlayer 03:00, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of -genesis

A tag has been placed on -genesis, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the article or have a copy emailed to you. CaveatLector ^{Talk Contrib} 04:36, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of -genesis

I have nominated -genesis, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/-genesis. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. CaveatLector ^{Talk Contrib} 04:41, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Buffyverse updates

Hey, we've not chatted in a while, what do you make of the latest developments in the Buffyverse? Also, did you see the "controversy" over at the Ianto article with fans getting upset at some of the negative comments about the character?  Paul  730 18:37, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I enjoyed the Slayer parts of "Harmonic Divergence" but the Harmony sections were pretty lacking IMO. I don't think the character was as funny as she was in the TV series and the marketing for the issue was misleading, since it wasn't as comedic as advertised. Strange, but the story is highly promising. Have you heard spoilers for Angel #16? I enjoyed it but there are some questionable plot decisions.

Yeah, I had to weed through those Jack edits, sorry if I missed some weasel words/tense problems. I discussed it with the editor and he was pretty cool about it, he's new and wasn't aware that we discourage recentism. Totally agree with you that we don't have to agree with an opinion for it to be valuable in an article.  Paul  730 19:23, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey, sorry for the lack of reply! I didn't notice your comment because someone else had messaged me afterwards. Sorry to hear about your break-up, but I guess a turbulent love life is better than no love life? No? Lol, why do you hate James Joyce? Angel has been good lately, there's something of a cliffhanger ending in #16 (nothing major) that's pretty interesting and shows promise for Aftermath? I'm slowly warming to Aftermath, in a detatched, skeptical kind of way, I'll definitely buy it and give you the verdict (since you said you were ditching Angel after this story ends).  Paul  730 16:08, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I thought you were just reading it for fun. Do you follow the Batman series or do you just want to get the landmark issue? What do you think of the whole Batman dies thing?  Paul  730 16:23, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

That's pretty strange they didn't have them, there's usually loads of spare copies of Angel in my shop. I don't want to comment on Illyria's return for fear of spoilage but yes, she's back. That's one of the things I'm more conflicted about, I'll go into more detail when you read it. Wow, that's weird to hear criticism towards Morrison's work. Isn't his Batman series pretty critically acclaimed? Are you opposed to Batman dying in general or just the way it was executed? Bignole didn't seem keen on the idea, he was saying that Bruce Wayne was synonymous (or however you spell that word) with Batman.  Paul  730 17:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Have you been watching Being Human? Check it out on BBC iPlayer, it's really good! How the hunt for Angel going?  Paul  730 01:50, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm loving Being Human, but I'm also reluctant to invest in it because it's so early on and could go either way at this stage. It's definitely got major potential. I love George, I just want to give him a hug, he's so adorable. :P Totally agree with you about characterisation over plot, it's a simple rule that so many series apparently fail to pick up on. Am I the only Buffy fan not excited about Dollhouse? I was never that interested in it, and isn't it getting mixed reviews? I'll give it a chance, but still. Have you been keeping up with Sarah Connor? Can't wait for the season 2 DVD.  Paul  730 12:40, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey, have you managed to catch up with Angel at all? The last issue was wonderful, a nice calming "character" issue to let the dust settle. Also, are you looking forward to the new Spike ongoing series?  Paul  730 18:27, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't much a fan of "Swell", it's probably been my least favourite issue so far. I wrote a little review of it at SlayAlive if you fancy reading it. What do you mean by "ship"? Kennedy/Satsu? Buffy/Satsu? Or the literal submarine in the story? Btw, you read the latest preview? I think the page with Andrew talking incessantly and Buffy's reaction is the funniest moment in Season Eight.

F13 was a great movie for F13 fans and a crappy slasher film for everybody else. I didn't expect any more from it. You're right in saying that Halloween was more creative and the superior film, but F13 was more fun and tonally in line with the rest of the series. I haven't read Barrowman's comic, but if I see TW Mag in town I might read it in Borders. Some of the TW comics actually have nice art.  Paul  730 14:56, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Nah, you were right. It was too vague and indecisive. While Jack's immortality could be debated, he's immortal in the basic sense that he dies a lot and comes back.  Paul  730 14:41, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikimania Oxford bid

Some time ago you indicated your support of the Oxford 2010 Wikimania Bid, and it was recieved with much gratitude. I now ask if you could could help support our bid by contributing to the bid page that is located at: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/Oxford. Now is the critical period for work to continue on the bid as the official bidding period has now started and the jury has been formed.

I do not ask for huge swathes of time, just enough that with eveyrone working on this, it can be completed in time to the high standard required in a bid. For the bid page, an excellent source of information is the travel wiki article on the City of Oxford which is found at: http://wikitravel.org/en/Oxford. The chance of bringing Wikimania to the UK is the best so far and i expect the best chance for many years. With a fresh and stong UK chapter we have an amazing opportunity to put ourselves on the map. If you have any questions, please mail them to the Wikimedia UK mailing list, email me or post a message on my talk page and i will answer as quickly as possible.

I look forward to working with you on the bid page. Many Thanks. Seddσn ^talk 15:12, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Spider-Man

Hello. :) Since you have been involved in editing the article Spider-Man, I wanted to let you know that we have nominated the article for "Good Article" status. You can view the review page, and if there is anything you can do to make the article better, please do so. :) There are a number of concerns to be addressed and some work to be done, so pitch in if you are able, make any suggestions that you think might be helpful, or at least just be there for moral support. :) BOZ (talk) 00:59, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Image

Not sure what you mean. Fix the spelling mistake in the image title? I'm told that image names don't really matter, as they're just a code and can be anything. So if that's what you're asking, I wouldn't bother? How are you btw, are you watching Dollhouse? I've not seen it, but am underwhelmed by the premise and have heard negative reactions, even from hardcore Whedonites.  Paul  730 02:07, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Echo

I don't watch the show so I'm not sure how helpful I'll be. I'll definitely have a scout about for sources though, as you say, there's loads of reviews linked at Whedonesque that we can use. The conception section looks good so far.  Paul  730 13:37, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

How much is repeated on the series' main page? If it's all there (p.s. you shouldn't have blank sections with "please expand" on the mainspace), then there isn't a need for a page right now.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 16:30, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I'd start a thread on the talk page for a merger. Explain that it's a little premature to do this for a show that only has a handful of episodes. I would present a version of the main page that incorporates all of the relevant information.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 16:40, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

A lot of the reviews will centre around Echo and Dushku though, so we might be able to establish notability through that. There's a couple of arguably-redundant Doctor Who articles for characters who only appear once (Astrid Peth, Jenny (Doctor Who)), but because a lot of the episode's media attention focused on those characters, their articles do hold up on their own.  Paul  730 21:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikimania 2010 Oxford bid

Thank you for supporting the Oxford bid to hold Wikimania 2010! We're currently in the final stages of the bid process - the jury will be announcing their decision by the 16th April. We're currently putting together the local team for the bid (who will do what if the bid wins); if you're able to be on the local team, please put your name in the appropriate place on m:Wikimania 2010/Bids/Oxford/Team. We'd also welcome anything you can do to help refine the bid in these last few days. If you have any questions, please let me or User:Seddon know. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Miles Straume

By reverting my edit to the Miles Straume page, you also removed a lot of updates regarding the last episode from Mile's life. For example, now there is no mention of him being approached by that Bram character warning him not to go on the freighter mission and such. If your going to go to an older format, then either update it with the newer information or leave the newer more complete edit intact. Whippletheduck (talk) 13:19, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

thank you. Whippletheduck (talk) 00:25, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Born to Run edits

I appreciate your assistance in the article, Zythe. Initially, I reverted out a bunch of the casting changes, etc. but have since self-reverted, as I re-examined the FA articles that I was using as examples for article construction. I am still keeping out some of the OR changes, etc. but I was wondering if you wanted to contribute to article discussion regarding cast stuff and infoboxes? - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 16:10, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

No, I wouldn't have described them as shit at all, Zythe. It was a bit sudden, and you know my record of response to sudden, undiscussed changes to an article, so my initial response was reflexive.

Anyway, in article discussion, I note that I used primarily the Lost eps as guide, though I pointed out that the craptastic Doctor Who article infoboxes allow for cast/guest star listings. I am loathe to use them, as they are cruft magnets, but an eye to how the infobox lists casts might be a change to explore in the infobox template for tv episodes. Let's continue the discussion in article talk? - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 16:33, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Cordie

I should be able to get to her GA review sometime tomorrow. :D  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 01:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

The review will be here, though it's also transcluded on the talk page. Looking forward to reading the page.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 13:57, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Just a reminder about addressing the Cordelia issues.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 01:40, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Jack Harkness

Did you bring the article Jack Harkness to WP:GA originally? The article is really quite well done, you might want to think about WP:FAC at some point. Cirt (talk) 15:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I would recommend triple checking that all the stuff has been addressed from Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Jack Harkness/archive1, and then try first for another peer review. Keep me posted? Cirt (talk) 15:24, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Invitation to participate: Proposed topic ban of Nintendoman01 from Buffy/Angel articles

Hi, I've started a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Buffyverse#Proposal:_Community_topic_ban_of_nintendoman01, which I believe could benefit from your input. Please consider this an invitation to participate. Jclemens (talk) 17:20, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Doomsday

I liked it. It wasn't the best finale, but I don't think it was as bad as some people say. I have to admit, this finale did keep me guessing at points better than the season seven finale did. For instance, I loved how they tied in Doomsday's demise. I kept thinking they were going to do a "Superman's Death" storyline, but what they really did was provide an explanation for how and why Doomsday was buried beneath the earth in the original comics. I loved that idea. I wish the fight would have been a bit longer, but I can recognize from the fight itself that Clark was way out of his league. I think he was lucky to get the upperhand just that one time so that he could bury Doomsday. I was happy that Jimmy actually found out about Clark. I loved that scene where Clark is basically giving him a pat on the back for figuring it all out, and apologizing for making him feel dumb for suspecting everything. It was touching in a way. I love and hate Jimmy's death. I hate it for the obvious reaons..it's Jimmy Olsen, but in reality even though he's just as iconic as Clark and Lois, he really is just a bit role most of the time. Now, I liked it because it was a complete shock. I did not see that coming at all. So, kudos for them for having the brass to actually kill a character who is still alive and kicking in the DC mythos.

Which ending are you confused about? I've read people wondering about the Clark vanishing thing, and to me that was merely just a visual choice the director made to illustrate the fact that "Clark Kent" was gone, and not that Clark was some ghost or something...just the persona. Something that would symbolically tie-in to this "Clark Kent is dead" comment. I actually think this ending for Clark has really been a long time coming. Yes, his human side is what makes him great, but he has yet to really find a balance between his emotions and his duty as the world's savior. I think after Jimmy's death and Lois disappearing (which, btw, I think she's in the 31st Century...Rokk probably programmed the ring to take Clark and Doomsday directly to him and the Legion and that's probably where Lois is), that he felt like this was the last straw. Two people he really cared about are gone because he let his emotions determine his decision. I've actually really interested to see what they do with him for the season premiere. Now, if you're referring to the Kryptonian orb, I'm pretty sure that was Zod. I think that Zod was somehow talking to Tess through the orb, and convinced her to to get Clark to kill Doomsday/Davis because he needed a body. What better body to inhabit than one created from your own DNA - that would also allow Sam Witwer to stay on the show. I personally think that final show of Zod would have been better had they not spoiled the Zod symbol in the trailers. It was good, but it would have been cooler to know show that at all.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 15:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Eh, it's something considering that they don't have Lex. Plus, we really only had Zod for 2 episodes, it could be interesting to see how they plan to handle him as a season long villain. I would assume that he is going to spend a good portion of his time trying to gain his Kryptonian-Yellow Sun created abilities. Then again, he might have them from the start. That's an interesting theory about Zod's appearance. My instinct to go to body possession is because Zod doesn't have a physical form, Jor-El destroyed it, so they'd have to explain how he recreated his body. I'm also curious why he used Kandor references when talking to Tess, because she wouldn't know what Kandor was. As for the Jimmy real name thing, if you read the new info I put in his section you'll see that the producers apparently had a deal with DC Comics that the Jimmy we know was never supposed to be the "real" Jimmy. Apparently, DC had an issue with him being the same age as Clark and Lois, so the producers said they'd make sure to rectify that problem when they were done with the character. As such, we get "Henry James Olsen", which is really a minor recton. A lot of people often go by their middle name alone and never use their first name. It's a minor problem in my eyes.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 01:49, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey

It's been ages since we had a chat, how are you? I take it from your recent edit summary you're not pleased about the new Buffy movie?  Paul  730 14:31, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Aw, I'm defending the Buffy remake over at SlayAlive, read my opinions there if you want (I have the Cyclops avatar). I think it's mostly harmless, and could turn out to be really good in the right hands. If it doesn't, who cares, it's not canon anyway. Lol, thanks for showing me that link, that was funny. I'd say include it, maybe in the reception section since it's not an official appearance?  Paul  730 17:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC) PS, sorry I forgot to say... no I don't watch Lost (gave up on it during season two) or Dollhouse, though I'll likely give Dollhouse a chance when the boxset comes out. I'm just upset about Sarah Connor! :(  Paul  730 21:30, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Sarah Connor was a waste of such potential. I'm also sorry to hear Salvation getting mixed/negative reviews. Things were looking so great for that franchise as well. Lol, couldn't I just watch Dollhouse in order like a normal person?? :P I'm not too sold on Dollhouse, it sounds a bit flaky and I don't like how it was just created as a vehicle for Eliza Dushku's acting. I think I'll give it a chance though.  Paul  730 22:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Torchwood Institute GAR

I have nominated Torchwood Institute for a community review of its GA status, which can be found here. Since you are a main contributor of the article (determined based on this tool), I figured you would be interested in weighing in on the discussion. Please comment there for ways of improving the article and helping it to maintain its GA status. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 03:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject LGBT studies Newsletter (June 2009)

• Newsletter delivery by xenobot 17:51, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Last Appearances

... The guy appears to have added last appearances to every Buffyverse article. If there's really a strong consensus to not have that info, shouldn't we take it out of the infobox? Jclemens (talk) 16:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd support that, if you wanted to pursue it. Perhaps bring it up on the Buffyproject talk page to validate the consensus we both see? Jclemens (talk) 21:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Eh... Maybe just let it be and see if anyone cares enough to notice. :-) Jclemens (talk) 15:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Various Buffy/Angel Business

Hello I am the guy with the last appearances and whatnot! It looked to me like someone had just yanked those things, since they were still in the infobox -- I thought maybe someone keen on the comic books (I am none too keen on them, but that is beside the point!) had decided just about any character might appear in them. My thought was that even if Anya appears in Season Eight, until she -does- it's probably worth noting she last appeared in "Chosen". But if there's consensus about it not being relevant, it totally makes way more sense to pull it from the infobox itself.

As for the 'creator' section: I was sort of operating under the way we do things for comic book characters here, where the initial artist gets credit too. Sure, Chris Claremont created however many X-Men characters, but the artist on those issues deserves credit as well. I think even if Joss had the idea for Fred, say, that Mere Smith deserves some credit for the initial characterization. If it was his idea, perhaps, it was still her illustration.

Honestly, though, I have to question whether or not Joss even deserves credit for the creation of all of those characters. Characters like, say, Lilah Morgan or Anyanka or Jenny Calendar who were initially intended as one-shot appearances and evolved into recurring characters -- did Joss even have any input on them, or were they entirely created by the writers of "The Ring", "The Wish", and "I Robot, You Jane?". Certainly once they -became- regulars he likely had something to do with their continued characterization, but is that really 'creation'? These are just three examples, there are other characters I would have similar concerns about.

Obviously Joss is the creator of both shows and their shared universe, but it seems hasty to give him credit by default for the creation of every single character, especially when the later years of both programs involved so much primary oversight by other people entirely (Marti Noxon on Buffy, various people including Jeff Bell, David Fury, Elizabeth Craft, Sarah Fain, et al on Angel).

Oh, and yes, I have read the Swinburne. :) Proserpine (talk) 20:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I understand the problems with OR, but I think to suggest Joss Whedon created every single character is, in of itself, OR. We have absolutely no reason to think he had input in the creation of certain characters (like Lilah or Jenny Calendar or Anya, as I specified above). I'd be more inclined to go with the writer/director of the first appearance model, honestly, but that also does lead to issues (such as Dawn, as you pointed out). Honestly it might be best to yank 'Creator' altogether, and instead mention things like who wrote the first appearance in the text of the article itself. I'm not of a super strong opinion about this, but I am one of those people who tend to feel it unfair that Whedon gets universal acclaim and credit for every aspect of these series when so many other people contributed to them in seminal, undeniable ways.

Incidentally, lovely work on the Cordy article. She's my absolute favorite, and the article is just beautiful now. Proserpine (talk) 20:56, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll check in later, then. I don't have much to add about Riley, unfortunately, but he certainly does seem an easy one to bang out. Tara would probably also be easy, in the same vein, though the controversy about her death might take a while to do up. When you get to Illyria, might I suggest this fabulous essay by Prof. Jennifer Hudson: http://www.americanpopularculture.com/archive/tv/shes_unpredictable.htm It uses postmodern theory to make a compelling argument for Fred's continued existence as a conscious part of Illyria. Proserpine (talk) 21:05, 28 June 2009 (UTC)