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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 31 May 2020 [1].

1981 UEFA Cup Final

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Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:39, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we've just promoted Ipswich's best season to FA, so it's only right now to accompany that with arguably their greatest triumph, a European victory for a tiny club managed by Bobby Robson (who he??). This is was given a good going over at WP:GAN by Harrias so hopefully whatever remains can be dealt with expeditiously. Thank you in advance for any attention you may be willing to give this article. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:39, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

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  • Images & captions are pertinent and help the text.
  • Images licensed appropriately -
CC BY-SA 2.0/File:Cobbold Stand, Ipswich Town Football Club 8418.jpg,
CC0 1.0/File:Finale Ipswich Town tegen Standard Luik (2-0). Wark (rechts) maakt 1-0, Bestanddeelnr 931-6178 (cropped).jpg
however...
File:Olstadion.jpg - the source website...http://www.bmz.amsterdam.nl/adam/nl/omd/omd07a.html / http://www.bmz.amsterdam.nl is down so can't check the "Amsterdam Municipal Department for the Preservation and Restoration of Historic Buildings and Sites (bMA)" Attribution/licensure. Shearonink (talk) 17:51, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No idea. I've replaced it with a PD one. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:41, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Harrias

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If any of the links don't work for you, let me know, and I can ping you copies over by email if you think they will be useful. Harrias talk 10:13, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers Harrias, plenty to be getting on with! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:33, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Harrias I've taken what I can from those reports. Most of the post-match reports dealt with the goals and not much else, mainly because there were so many of them! Have another look at your leisure and let me know if there's anything else I can do. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:39, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Follow-up
  • "..ranking below the UEFA Champions League." Should this be "European Cup", rather than UEFA Champions League, given the latter didn't exist in 1981?
  • "Butcher exploited AZ's renown weakness.." Should be "renowned".
  • "..scoring from the penalty spot after 30 minutes..", "Osman cut out Tol's breakaway chance on 30 minutes.." Both on 30 minutes? If we are certain on the order, but the reports have generalised both as being at 30 minutes, maybe just change to "shortly after" or similar.

Not much more from me. The lack of information on substitutes still bothers me; WP:FACR 1b requires the article to be comprehensive "it neglects no major facts or details and places the subject in context;". I think that I can accept that a list of unused substitutes is not a major fact, but it still feels like an obvious omission. Harrias talk 09:50, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Harrias Addressed the above, but the unused substitutes simply aren't recorded in reliable sources. All contemporary sources simply list the used substitutes. I'll see what I can do, I've asked the club, I've asked the East Anglian Daily Times and I've asked a local statistician who knows all things ITFC. I may get an answer but I may not be able to source it! Cheers, let me know if there's anything else I can do secure your support. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:28, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Harrias I've ordered the programmes for both legs which list the "selected squads" so once they're in I'll add that information. ITFC didn't reply, nor the EADT, but the stats man pointed me in the right direction. Is there anything else required while we wait for those to arrive? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 06:32, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Harrias I've got both programmes, but I think they're pretty much listing the entire squads for each team and neither give any indication of any subs. ITFC themselves haven't responded to my question. I'm not sure where to go from here with this point. Can you let me know what you think? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:00, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's a shame. As I said before, I think that I can accept that unused substitutes are not a major fact. For all I know, that season they decided any squad member could be used as a substitute, and it didn't really apply. Harrias talk 19:23, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Brief comment

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Hi there, please check the link for ref. 59 (just The Times acting up again). RetiredDuke (talk) 13:32, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hey RetiredDuke, I replaced it. No easy find in the archives. Cheers for the spot. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:49, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Cas Liber

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Taking a look now....

Ipswich and AZ had faced each other twice before, in the two-legged first round of the 1978–79 European Cup Winners' Cup which the English club won 2–0 on aggregate. - I had to read this twice as I was expecting an "and...x" in the second clause..before I realised it was "two-legged". I think this could be reworded better ...but is very late here and I'm too tired to think of an alternative. Will sleep on this...
I made this "faced each other in two matches before, ..." The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:06, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
works for me Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:14, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise reads fine on comprehensiveness and prose Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:11, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Dweller

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Why was Robson's "future at Ipswich" "subject to debate"? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:12, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Because "bigger" clubs were after him. I'll try to find some more on this. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:17, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh. I took the implication to be 'if I lose, I'm off because I'll be sacked'. It doesn't make sense your way anyway... if he won, he'd be even more in demand. What did he mean? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:38, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think he realised his ship would have sailed at Ipswich having lost everything that season but coming so close to a treble. He was certainly being tailed by Sunderland who were offering £1m over ten years (I've added that)... Ipswich would never have sacked Robson. If he was still alive, and if we had the same directors, he'd still be manager today. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:40, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Looking good. Unlike Mr Wark. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 16:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Amakuru

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  • Background
    • The first three sentences all seem to be sourced to [2], but I can't see any mention there of the UEFA Cup being founded in 1971, or that teams qualified to it through "performance in their national leagues and cup competitions". In fact I'm wondering if this latter point is correct, as my memory is that UEFA qualification was through league position only back in the day, with the Cup Winners Cup for cup winners.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:11, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      Fair points, I've directly sourced 1971 and removed the qualification claim, getting information on that kind of thing post-Europa League re-branding is practically impossible. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • ... in the 1962–63 European Cup, and prior to the 1980–81 season, their most successful ... - should the comma be after "and" rather than after "Cup"?
      Comma moved. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Maybe say how many times they had previously qualified for Europe in total, since we're specifically told about two of the campaigns? I'm wondering if those were the only two. Similarly for AZ.
      Easier said than done. Done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • the previous season behind Liverpool and Manchester United - I might put a comma after "season".
      As you like. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Did Liverpool and Manchester United both qualify for the European Cup, or was one of them also in the UEFA with Ipswich? Perhaps include that detail, since we've mentioned them.
      Added. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Will also have a look at other sections later.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:11, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru cheers, looking forward to it. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Route to the final – Ipswich Town F.C.
 — Amakuru (talk) 23:23, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru cheers dude, done that lot. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:40, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru less main page fun-and-laughter section, more FAC review.... I'm waiting...........!! (PS just beat Cov 5–0 on FIFA so feeling pretty smug....!) The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:54, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ha, we were robbed. Dodgy ref I reckon. Will finish off the review tomorrow, sorry I got distracted by some silliness in that place you're not allowed to discuss.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:03, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And with that I've finished combing through the prose. Will check for sourcing, completeness and other miscellaneous points in a bit, but looking good so far.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:54, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru done and dusted, thanks. I've addressed/responded to all above. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 19:34, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
OK, all looks good to me and I think it's basically complete. The only thing I thought of was that it could have some mention of the post-match celebrations which took place back in Ipswich when the team returned home. We see some detail on that at 1927_FA_Cup_Final#Post_match_and_aftermath, but I notice from your recent FA at 1978_FA_Cup_Final that there's no mention of the ticker-tape parade, so perhaps it's not essential. I'm happy to support on prose. If you want me to do a sourcing check as well then let me know.  — Amakuru (talk) 19:59, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru I took another look and found a source for the civic reception which flowed nicely into Robson's announcement to stay. Thanks for your support and comments, of course, and if you'd like to do a source check, that would also be amazing. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:12, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source check by Amakuru

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  • Ref formatting and general points. Numbers refer to this version.
    • [2] - Why is this "via www.theguardian.com", rather than just The Guardian as publisher?
    • [9] - typo "&nadsh;"
    • [15] - UEFA was linked in several previous refs (7, 8, 9, 11), but isn't in this one and subsequent. As a wise person once told me, "either link items the first time, every time, or no times". Check this for all refs and make it consistent.
    • [35] - I'd expect "van der Sluis" to start with a capital, like the beginning of sentences at Vincent van Gogh. Not sure if this is a proper MOS point, but if it is then consider changing it.
    • [40] and [43] - ditto for "de Deugd".
    • [64] title is missing
Otherwise it looks good. I'll do the spot checks next.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:26, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru lovely, done all those and found a couple of other issues while doing so, bonus. Cheers again, look forward to the spot checks, whenever you can. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:05, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 13:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru thanks, I think I've addressed the concerns above, let me know if there's anything else I can do. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
OK thanks. That's all from me then, I'm happy to support on sourcing - the few issues I found above were only minor things and generally everything checks out. Cheers.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:41, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from NapHit

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That's all from me great work and an enjoyable read! NapHit (talk) 15:05, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

NapHit Awesome, thanks so much. I believe I've addressed everything, but don't hesitate to give me a shout if I missed something or there was anything else you noticed. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:00, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to support now my nitpicking concerns have been addressed! If you could take a look at 2001 UEFA Cup Final, if you get the chance that would be great. Would greatly appreciate your comments there! NapHit (talk) 21:13, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@FAC coordinators: I think we're done here now, unanimous support, prose checked, images checked, sources checked. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:50, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Noted, I daresay I'll get to this in the next day or two. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:42, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
TRM, should we have a "Teams" citation/link per the recent 1978 FA Cup Final nom? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:34, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The teams are already contained in the "report" link. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:17, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Names yes, but couldn't see positions and countries of origin -- or did I miss something? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:45, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, that. Yes, I don't have a reference for those. I suppose they should go. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 17:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ipswich are now referenced via 11v11.com, but those pages don't provide listings for AZ nationalities, nor do any of the contemporaneous newspaper sources. The positions are variously referenced across all the sources. Best and final offer. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 17:44, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If we don't have reliable sourcing for the nationalities of one side I wouldn't show them for the other side, just so things look consistent, but I'm not going to hold up promotion over that. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:47, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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