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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1988 Football League Second Division play-off Final/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 28 September 2020 [1].


Nominator(s): The Rambling Man, Harrias talk 20:49, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The 1988 Football League Second Division play-off Final was a rather dull pair of football matches which promoted Middlesbrough to the top tier of English football, then known as the First Division. What livened things up somewhat was the hooliganism after the second leg: a few hundred Chelsea fans invaded the pitch and attacked the Middlesbrough fans, who were still penned in. The police were criticised for being slow to react, but mopped everything up. There were 45 injuries and over 100 arrests. English football, which was suffering from a poor reputation for this sort of thing, took another hit. It was the final nail in the coffin for English clubs chances of being readmitted to European club competition early, and they had to wait another two seasons. A joint nomination with the playoff wizard himself, TRM. As always, all thoughts, criticisms and comments will be greatly appreciated. Harrias talk 20:49, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski

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I'll take a look at this article, and give some comments on how it meets the FA criteria in a little while. If you fancy doing some QPQ, I have a list of items that can be looked at here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 07:09, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Vilenski any thoughts yet? The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 19:10, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Lee Vilenski done all bar one I wasn't quite sure about. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 21:32, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Lee Vilenski how are we looking? Cheers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 15:48, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Lee Vilenski anything more? The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 09:21, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, apologies, I thought I had already closed this. Good work. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 11:02, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Kosack

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A handful of very minor points, but this is a polished effort and I have little to complain about. Nice work. Kosack (talk) 09:20, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kosack thanks for you comments, all addressed. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:36, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Kosack: Thank you for your kind words, anything more for us? Harrias talk 18:36, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've had another run through but can't see anything further to complain about. With the additional comments from other users, I'm happy to support this. Kosack (talk) 06:50, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by WA8MTWAYC

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Great work, TRM and Harrias. As Kosack indicated, there is little to complain about, although I've got a few minor comments:

  • Link "the Football Association"
  • Volley is not wikilinked correctly yet
  • Richard Piers Rayner has a wikipage
  • Maybe wikilink corner?
  • "to discuss whether to readmit English club to European competitions" English club > English clubs. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 18:03, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the review and the kind words WA8MTWAYC. All your points have been resolved. Harrias talk 18:36, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Cheers, I'll support this nomination. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 18:47, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dweller

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Will appear here. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:57, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • This may be a FAQ but the capitalisation of the title of the article just looks weird. Is it something that's long since been settled as WP:FOOTY consensus? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:01, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I guess this could be brought up at the football project, this is a case of "it's always been like this" but you're not the first to ask, I believe Amakuru shared your concern but I'm not sure if he got round to asking the project about it. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 18:02, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Somewhat odd that neither manager is mentioned in the prose. At least talk about their future fortunes... Rioch had a startling collapse in position from a zenith about six months later. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:06, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Rioch didn't leave Boro until March 1990, the club's relegation is mentioned in the "Aftermath" section. And I wouldn't call getting back-to-back promotions a startling collapse in position from a zenith about six months later, I'd call it pretty damn remarkable (although I can think of one club who won the league after being promoted to the First Division the previous season... can you guess who it is yet????) The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 18:13, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Not sure I understand this reply. It's odd not to have any prose about the managers. Half way through the 1988-89 season, Rioch would have seemed impregnable, having got the side promoted and into a strong position in the table. The ensuing collapse of the club's position and his own, is remarkable. No idea what Ipswich's feats that are even more ancient than this have to do with this. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 07:43, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It's my fault for trying to do this while tired and emotional. I'm talking shit. I'll take another look. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 09:08, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Okay, here's the thing. This article is about the play-off final. We add a little bit of context around the season of the final (route to final/background etc) and a little bit of context to what happened the following season (in the Aftermath section). I am happy to add another sentence in there about this alleged "remarkable" collapse, but much more is undue and belongs in the History of Middlesbrough F.C. article, not this one. Rioch was still employed by the club post-relegation for almost the whole of the following season, so bringing him into it is ... odd? What do you suggest? What precisely are you looking for? Judging by this it appears that Boro performed just as a promoted team would be expected to perform, i.e. badly from the get-go. This doesn't seem or feel remarkable in any sense. Promoted clubs often get relegated, in fact I believe they were only relegated on the final day of the season so were almost unlucky. As for manager mentions, do you just want me to say who was the manager of each club or are you looking for something more specific? The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 09:16, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

<-I'd be happy with any kind of prose about the managers, tbh. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 16:03, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's already there, as of this morning. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 16:04, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Dweller cheers me old fruit. I've responded to and/or addressed all but the "provocative" point, if you could feedback on how we're doing so far that'd be great and hopefully Harrias will find time to look at that last issue. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 18:10, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Dweller think we're done? The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:32, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

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Coord note

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Adding this to the source reviews for one. --Ealdgyth (talk) 15:27, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind, already there. Oops? --Ealdgyth (talk) 15:28, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Been there quite some time I think! The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 07:58, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass

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I'll take a look at this later. Might claim WikiCup points. Hog Farm Bacon 14:39, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, so maybe I'm looking in the wrong spot, but a spot check on some of the Chelsea 1–0 Middlesbrough details from the match report aren't showing up: The timing of the substitutions, the team captains, the exact start time. The managers aren't in the report, but they're cited elsewhere, so that's not a big issue. Also not seeing the time or captains in the match report for the other one.

Sub timings are in the sources given in the second half match report. Captains wouldn't have changed, they were "club captains", and 3pm kick off is like citing the sky is blue, but I guess there's a chance we could find a TV listing for it or a preview Harrias? The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 18:36, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The 3pm kickoff isn't obvious to someone who doesn't follow English association football, which I would say is a rather high percentage of our readers, including myself. Hog Farm Bacon 19:33, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
3pm sourced from a fixture list published in The Guardian the day before. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 19:49, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There's a location given for Rayner, but not the other sources in the bibliography section. Not expected for King as a journal, but can the location be added for the others?

Done. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 18:36, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Spot checks:

That's it. A couple of formatting issues and some minor stuff on the spot checks. Shouldn't be too much to fix. Sources all look reliable, and all seem to work. Hog Farm Bacon 16:19, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hog Farm really appreciate the source review, cheers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 19:56, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm happy to pass this source review. Looks to me like this one can probably be promoted now. Congrats. Hog Farm Bacon 19:57, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Hog Farm. Harrias talk 20:13, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.