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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 5 July 2021 [1].

Martin Rundkvist

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Nominator(s): Usernameunique (talk) 20:16, 19 May 2021 (UTC); Chiswick Chap (talk)[reply]

Martin Rundkvist has excavated a Viking boat grave, a sixteenth-century sword, and, last summer, a mead hall from the time of Beowulf, where he discovered nearly two dozen gold figures. And then there were the times he won six games on Jeopardy!, and spent a week at the helm of Sweden's official Twitter account, @sweden. Cool stuff.

This article, too, has an interesting history. It lasted for less than a month when it was created in 2008; within days of its recreation in 2020 it was brought back to the gents at AfD, where it again failed their discerning gaze. This year, Chiswick Chap and I thoroughly reworked the article, incorporating dozens of new sources and soliciting the input of half a dozen users with experience in this space, including Midnightblueowl, Johnbod, KJP1, The Rambling Man, and Amitchell125, even before MeegsC gave it a thorough good-article review. The benefit of this process is that the article is in pretty much the best shape it could possibly be in; it is therefore featured-article material. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:16, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Hurricane Noah

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  • Scandinavian élite I don't believe an accent is needed here. NoahTalk 21:54, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's not a big deal, but I'm inclined to keep this one. The relevant guideline, for its part, says that "The use of diacritics (such as accent marks) for foreign words is neither encouraged nor discouraged". And the OED lists both forms.
  • Link the first mention of Stockholm in the prose.
  • Done.
  • Done.
  • Done.

Well done. I only found some minor issues with the article. I have a nomination up currently and would appreciate it if you were able to review it. NoahTalk 21:54, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Hurricane Noah, I appreciate the review. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:54, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I support this nomination now. NoahTalk 23:37, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Spicy

(Not an image review). I have concerns over the licensing of the lead image. This was uploaded to Commons with the source listed as 'Directly from photographer' and the author listed as 'Kristina Ekero Eriksson'. The uploader doesn't seem to be the same person as Erikson, so this would require an OTRS release from the copyright holder. Spicy (talk) 22:07, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved, permission has been received. Spicy (talk) 18:28, 23 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Spicy, given your previous input, would you have any interest in conducting an image review for the article? Thanks, --Usernameunique (talk) 18:15, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Aza24

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How fascinating! Looking through now. Aza24 (talk) 05:50, 2 June 2021 (UTC) Lead[reply]

  • Hmm, may be picky (and perhaps incorrect) of me, but "He is particularly known for research into the Bronze, Iron, and Middle Ages of Scandinavia, and for significant excavations in the province of Östergötland" doesn't sound right. These are obviously huge spans of time and seem like a fairly large topic to be "particularly known for". My initial reaction is that people are particularly known for more specific things, such as "He specializes in medieval music and is particularly known for his work on Guillaume de Machaut—am I making any sense here? Maybe rephrase to "his research focuses on/lies in", "he studies" or something...
  • "research into" seems a bit vague, is there a qualifier for what kind of research we're talking about here? Archaeology seems like a broad subject for such a statement
  • Is there a name for this group of people Rundkvist is discovering all these things on?—or are they merely the inhabitants of said areas?
  • It feels a little odd to exclude almost all the universities he has been associated with in the lead

Early life and education

  • I presume nothing is recorded on his parents or secondary schooling?
  • "has lived entirely in Stockholm", just to check, though a researcher at Exeter and Chester for ~10 years, he still lived in Stockholm?

Career

  • "In January 2020"—would be nice to avoid the two sentences in a row that begin with "In"
  • The Bronze buckle is a nice picture, but confusing and out of place as there's no explanation for why it's there, what it is, or indeed anything about Barshalder until a later section. You may want to add to the caption, text or perhaps move it downwards
  • Any date for the pic of Rundkvist?

Research

  • Completely up to you, but it's been a while since Williams was mentioned, so I almost wonder if his full name should be used here again for his first mention (though me forgetting who he was could have easily been the result of returning to this article they next day). By no means necessary though
  • I think using just the last name suggests that he was mentioned previously—and that someone trying to figure out who he is should look above—whereas a full name might suggest that he was not mentioned. So if anything, a second link is probably the way to go rather than a full name. I'm happy either way. --Usernameunique (talk) 22:07, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fair point, should be fine how it is then
  • "Reported as far away as India" seems a bit odd, I mean, India has a huge media system and probably reports on a ton of archeological subjects. And either way, it might be more meaningful to say something like "widely reported in the media"
  • Maybe a wikitionary link for oblong? I had to look it up and I suspect others would have to as well
  • Would a link to "Late antiquity" for the Late Roman Period make sense? Might be a stretch but am not sure

Aska mead hall

  • I feel a bit awkward to say I didn't know what "pendant" meant—so it could warrant linking—but this may just be me. As an aside, this seems like a broad category—is there a more specific characterization that could be used?
  • I'm not sure what the "stamped" either in this context. Does it literally have a stamp of somekind?

Other

  • Well the "Royal Swedish Academy of Letters, History and Antiquities" is dup linked, but the distance between is far enough that it could be warranted
  • I don't think the duplicate linking was intentional, although I'm slightly inclined to keep the second, since arguably the link is more important there. But I could also be convinced to take it out. --Usernameunique (talk) 22:00, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems to be retrieval dates missing from ref 6 and 7 of the Primary section
  • These are archived URLs where the originals are dead. The "archived on" dates are thus the relevant ones: whatever day the archived URLs are accessed, they will still appear as the sources appeared on 11 February 2015 and 3 September 2014, respectively. --Usernameunique (talk) 22:12, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Indeed. My rationale was merely that other archived refs have retrieval dates, so I assumed this was an oversight
  • Most of the URL-sourced references have archived URLs as backups; only primary refs 6 & 7, and secondary refs 5 & 10, have dead URLs, and rely on the archived URLs in the first instance. Those four are the ones that don't have retrieval dates. --Usernameunique (talk) 05:03, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Responded above. Thanks for the support, Aza24.

Placeholder Support from KJP1

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Apologies, life is intruding, but shall certainly be back with comments, although probably not before the weekend. KJP1 (talk) 17:14, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I made some minor suggestions on this at the informal PR. It was a very good article then, and has been improved since. It is well-written, exhaustively researched and impeccably cited, nicely illustrated, and guides the lay reader through some, quite technical, concepts. I’ve re-read it for FAC, think it fully meets the criteria, and am pleased to Support it. KJP1 (talk) 11:03, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:06, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, KJP1! Appreciate it. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:50, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport from Edwininlondon

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I am no expert in the field, and also apologies beforehand for any odd comments regarding prose, as I'm not a native speaker. My comments:

  • wikilink Ph.D. to Doctor of Philosophy
  • terms "the most-read archaeology blog on the Internet" --> given that this is now 14 years ago, should this not be past tense?
  • Rundkvist has lived entirely in Stockholm --> this reads odd to my foreign eyes. I expected "his entire life"
  • received his Ph.D. from the same institution --> in which field?
  • its connection to archaeology --> wikilink archaeology
  • these were primarily research-related, but included contract work --> I don't get the "but": I have known people doing research as a contractor
  • I agree they're not necessarily mutually exclusive, but it appears that for Rundkvist, contract work did not generally include research; he uses "but" himself ("I have made a living in archaeology since my graduation in 1992, now and then in contract work but mainly doing research into the Iron Age of Sweden's southern quarter."). --Usernameunique (talk) 17:19, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • He likewise served --> like what? I don't understand what is being compared
  • Rundkvist's research deals with the Bronze through Middle Ages in Scandinavia. --> a bit further on we have "Barshalder 3 detailed the Stone Age finds from the site", so I'm not sure this opening sentence is accurate
  • Changed to "focuses on". As far as I can tell he doesn't do much Stone Age-related research; Barshalder 3 appears to have been more for the sake of completion than anything else, and Rundkvist admits in the introduction that the Stone Age is not his bailiwick ("In working with the Iron Age graves for my doctorate and preparing a basic report of the excavations, I ... had to bring order also to the Stone Age finds. I found this to be an excellent opportunity to learn something about Neolithic matters."). --Usernameunique (talk) 17:27, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • analyzed --> is there a reason this is in American English? Given Rundkvist's connection with Exeter and Chester, BrE seems more appropriate
  • where mead halls may have stood --> there is an earlier instance of mead halls that should be linked; and a bit further on there is a superfluous link: a mead hall measuring 47.5 metres
  • I'm not sure about some of the quotes. Why is "the ostentatious manorial buildings where the Late Iron Age elite lived their lives and played their roles" a quote? Since there is a quote from an interview in the same paragraph, I think it would be better to reduce the number of quotes here and paraphrase.
  • the Society's executive board --> I don't think that capital is right, and come to think of it, should it not be "the association's executive board?

That's all I could see. I'll have a look at the sources later. Edwininlondon (talk) 15:30, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OK, a bit more as promised (sorry for the delay). Looking the sources now.

Source reliability:

  • What makes the Aardvarchaeology blog a reliable source to be used here?
  • Aardvarchaeology is Rundkvist's own blog, and is cited sparingly. [R 9] (first cite), [R 42], and [R 43] are "self-published sources on the article's subject", and are used for his various positions and the precise dates thereof, which are uncontroversial. [R 9] (second cite) and [R 12] merely offer Rundkvist's quoted perspectives, but state nothing as fact (besides the fact of his words). Finally, [R 36] and [R 37], which add several details about Rundkvist's excavations at Aska, are "produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications"—a standard which, appropriately enough, takes the shortcut WP:BLOGS. --Usernameunique (talk) 18:13, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Spot check:

  • R 1: ok
  • R 2: ok, except source has 2014 not 2015 as start year Talinn Uni
  • R 3: ok, except for source does not seem to cover "as a project leader, field archaeologist, and artefact specialist for Värmdö Municipality from 2007 to 2008"
  • R 4: ok
  • R 5: ok
  • 34: the link does not take me to the review
  • 35: ok
  • 37: ok
  • 38: ok
  • 39: Neither the original nor the archive link leads me to this book review. Google Scholar doesn't seem to have it, so not sure. What page is the book review on? The link shows the index
  • R 23: ok
  • R 30: I couldn't find anything that validates "near the town of Vadstena"
  • That's taken from the article on Aska (and confirmed via Google Maps). It's an uncontroversial point that I added for clarity, but I can remove it (or look for a better source) if you prefer. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:33, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • R 32: ok
  • 50: ok


Formatting:

  • I must admit I'm not so sure about the use of — — —. Just makes it a little too academic for me. Are there other FAs that use this format? I'm open to be convinced about it, but have not come this style across before.
  • It seems a convenient notation, avoiding the need to repeat the subject's name many times down the list of sources. It's not obvious what else could take its place, as the symbol must look suitably blank so as to be unambiguous. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:00, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ——— (2020) needs a language tag and translation
  • (1999) Grave matters: misspelled Göteborg
  • (Spring 2010) and (April 2015) --> I would just say (2010) and (2015), but maybe this is a matter of taste. But if months are given for journal articles, it should be for all journal articles. A few in the Other section do not have a month and ref #35 #40 also do not have months.
  • The convention here is to use the date listed on the cover or title page of the journal. Some journals—particularly those published once a year—have only the year, while others have a month or (particularly for quarterly journals) a season. --Usernameunique (talk) 18:01, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last 2 works, ——— & Koskinen, Julia Schulte, are these self-published?
  • They're excavation reports, so essentially yes. There was some discussion of this at the DYK nomination. Basically, their use is acceptable when "produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications", as is the case here. But in any event, the language in the article was tweaked slightly (e.g., "Their survey reported") to reflect that these are not peer-reviewed works. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:59, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • #13: Thunmark-Nylén 1995, Abb. 53:2 What does Abb. mean? Is this German?
  • It's short for "abbildung", and means "illustration". (Note the title of the book: "Die Wikingerzeit Gotlands (I): Abbildungen der grabfunde", which translates as "Gotland's Viking Age: Illustrations of the grave finds".) It's the equivalent of "pl." for "plate". It's obvious when the work is in hand, because each illustration is labelled "abb." followed by the number. --Usernameunique (talk) 17:51, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • #44: needs a language tag and translation

That's all I could find. Edwininlondon (talk) 17:04, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again, Edwininlondon. We've responded above. --Usernameunique (talk) 18:14, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I am satisfied with your explanations and changes, on prose and sources. I Support the nomination. A nice piece of work, well done. Edwininlondon (talk) 09:01, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Edwininlondon! Appreciate it. --Usernameunique (talk) 19:19, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass

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3D artistic items - which includes items such as coins - need two licences. One for the photograph and one for the original work. In the cases in this article where the latter is missing the objects portrayed are obviously out of copy right, but this still needs to be stated. See File:Stele des Polybios.jpg or File:CILI(2)p47fgtXXFastitriumphales.jpg for examples of how this might be handled. Images which seem to lack full licencing include the buckle, the chess piece and the foil figures. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:31, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Gog the Mild. Added the licenses. --Usernameunique (talk) 19:15, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
All images are appropriately licenced, positioned, captioned and alt texted. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:20, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Wehwalt

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I imagine Edwin's comments above are equivalent to a source review, but if necessary I will do one. Substantive comments (I have only a short time tonight and more will come tomorrow):

  • If he has lived in Stockholm almost all his life, then how does he fulfill the academic positions at non-Swedish schools?
More soon.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:56, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support Only two minor things:
  • Royal Swedish Academy of Letters, History and Antiquities is linked twice.
Ping me if I'm needed to do a formal source review, though I imagine what Edwin did is sufficient.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:08, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]


@FAC coordinators: No rush, of course, but just a heads up that all comments have been resolved. --Usernameunique (talk) 19:20, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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