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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 17:26, 4 November 2017 [1].

Northern rosella

[edit]
Nominator(s): Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 15:01, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've scoured everywhere and feel I have covered just about all information available on this pretty parrot. I feel it has come together okay and is within striking distance of FA status. have at it. cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 15:01, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:15, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

thx Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:32, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: There's nothing in the lead that actually says what the Northern rosella is (a species of parrot). This should be in the first sentence, as is the case in the other FA parrot (and parrotfinch) articles: Broad-billed parrot, Mascarene parrot, Rodrigues parrot, Turquoise parrot, Fiji parrotfinch. --Usernameunique (talk) 06:42, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Good catch...I rejigged it now... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:01, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

From FunkMonk

[edit]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:42, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The description was based on an illustration by Ferdinand Bauer" The article is pretty empty, perhaps find and include this important type illustration?
having trouble locating it... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:40, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thought so, can't find it either... FunkMonk (talk) 11:27, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Butting in: could this be the illustration? - Which is one of 52 plates held by the NHM in London - see here. - Aa77zz (talk) 12:21, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The NHM has a watermarked image here - Aa77zz (talk) 12:34, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Seems very likely! I think it would be good to include somehow, since that image is what the species is based on... FunkMonk (talk) 12:39, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
that's definitely it...surely it is out of copyright... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:18, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Gregory Mathews described P. venustus hillii in 1910" You could add "the subspecies" before the name, so the reader will know what you're talking about.
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:42, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "possibly through bowdlerisation" I have no idea what that is.
linked now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:42, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "was basal to the other" Could be linked and maybe explained.
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:58, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and that non-sister taxa" Likewise.
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:58, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The description section feels like a wall of text, but I can't really see any place where it would make sense to split it...
  • "the adult northern rosella weighs 90–110 g (3.2–3.9 oz), is 29 to 32 cm" And is?
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:58, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in the western subspecies hillii" Seems out of place and redundant to mention this under description.
removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:58, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "not a gregarious bird" Could be linked.
linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:58, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "such as Darwin Stringybark (Eucalyptus tetrodonta)", listed later as ", E. tetradonta". Seems odd you would list all species with the common name first and scientific name in parenthesis, except for this example.
rejigged Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:58, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The bird louse Forficuloecus wilsoni" Everywhere else the scientific name is in parenthesis after the common name.
it is a species of bird louse. And has no common name. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:01, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES)" Why is the abreviation, and not the full name, linked?
target article is at acronym...but switched now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:58, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is IUCN not spelled out, like CITES is?
is now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:03, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Breeders have attempted to use sprinklers in enclosures to induce pairs to breed at other times" How would this help?
not spelt out in source but presumably to mimic rain (monsoon) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:02, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "native to Australia's Top End" That term is neither used or explained in the article body.
just changed to "northern Australia" as the term adds nothing really Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:03, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The sexes have similar plumage, while younger birds are generally duller with occasional spots of red." Maybe include females in the latter group as well, as you state they are occasionally red in the article body.
good point - done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:09, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Aa77zz

[edit]

Lead

  • Spell out IUCN
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:31, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Taxonomy and naming

  • Spell out RAOU
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:31, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • nonsister -> non-sister?
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:31, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Arnhem Land (as in lead)
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:31, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "John Gould reported in 1848" perhaps just Gould here
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:31, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "However, a mitochondrial study by Ashlee Shipham and colleagues published in 2017..." Shipman et al used nuclear DNA in their study ("genomic wide sampling of thousands of loci") which they considered more reliable and which gave a different tree from that obtained using mtDNA.
damn...I need to read these articles when less tired...done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:36, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Description

  • First sentence needs to be split
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:36, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strangely HBW alive has 28cm and 85g - not within the range given in the wiki article
I'll stick with HANZAB... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:36, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • mention bill colour
I did...see "The beak is off-white with a grey cere"... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:38, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • link retrices
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:38, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Behaviour

  • "The northern rosella is not a gregarious bird, found solitarily or in pairs, although several birds will perch together in the same tree." -> ..."and is found solitary or ..."?
changed to "alone" Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:43, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Feeding

  • "Plant species it eats both seeds and nectar of include" word missing?
rejigged Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:43, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Breeding

  • add size of egg in inches
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:43, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Conservation status

  • Are there published estimates of the population size?
not known - remote areas its lives in and poorly studied Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:43, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

- Aa77zz (talk) 06:51, 2 October 2017 (UTC) Perhaps add some links:[reply]

  • link scapulars in lead and body
doneCas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:17, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • link mantle in lead and body
doneCas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:17, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Melville Island (Australia)
doneCas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:17, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • link cere
doneCas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:17, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Tiwi Islands
doneCas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:17, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looking good. - Aa77zz (talk) 08:03, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Re comment from FunkMonk above:

added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:21, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Supported above. - Aa77zz (talk) 17:55, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

More on Bauer

  • "The description was based on an illustration by Ferdinand Bauer from a specimen collected by Robert Brown..." From your source (Australian Faunal Directory) it isn't clear that Kuhl based his description on the drawing - he could have used the actual holotype. He mentions that it was in the Museum of the Linnean Society (now in the NHM). Bauer's illustration is from the same specimen. (I've been following up all the references on the Australian Faunal Directory page to see whether Brauer's illustration has been published). - Aa77zz (talk) 12:41, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review

[edit]
  • Ref 23: The hyphen in the page range should be replaced by an ndash
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:44, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Page range formats should be consistent - compare, e.g. ref 16 with 9, 23 and perhaps others.
aligned Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:44, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise sources look fine. Brianboulton (talk) 19:48, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

thx Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:44, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from JennyOz

[edit]
  • "International Ornithologists' Union (IOC)" was it intentional to keep that acronym after the name change?
No idea, but I do know they still have "IOC" on their site.. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:53, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • possibly reword to avoid close (proximity) repetition?
"...there is no evidence indicating a decline in population." and
"...with no evidence of any significant decline."
tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:53, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's all, JennyOz (talk) 11:20, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Riley

[edit]
  • Rosella should be linked in the lead.
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the lead, it might be good to say "nominate" (linked) before "Northern Territory subspecies", as the other subspecies has its name shown in the lead.
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the lead, "blue green" should probably be hyphenated.
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just for clarity, in the sentence "The long tail is blue green and the wings are blue-violet and black", "black" and "blue-violet" should probably be switched, as it might be interpreted as meaning that the wings are blue-violet and blue-black.
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • In this phrase, "but may also eat insects", you should probably say "it".
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • There probably shouldn't be a comma separating "Brown" and "in 1821" in the sentence "Dutch zoologist Coenraad Jacob Temminckpublished the name Psittacus brownii, in honour of Brown, in 1821."
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • It would probably be better to say "synonymous to the nominate" or something like that instead of just "synonymous". This can be found in the sentence "Animal taxonomist Arthur Cain treated the subspecies as synonymous as the only difference he knew of was the colour of the cheeks, but conceded further evidence could prove them distinct."
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • You should probably specify what "this" is in the sentence "Gould reported in 1848 that this was the local name used, and it was the most common name at the end of the 19th century."
changed "this" to "the latter" to avoid repetition yet highlight what was being discussed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:00, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the description section, you inconsistently use "to" and "–" to represent ranges of numbers.
aligned Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:56, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That is all for now. RileyBugz会話投稿記録 23:26, 5 October 2017 (UTC) More:[reply]

changed the first "and" to "with" instead Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:54, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
not quite - one subspecies has predominantly white with some blue and the other predominantly blue with some white - this info is in the sentences following Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:54, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are four problems with the sentence "These last are mainly white with lower borders violet in the nominate subspecies, and more blue with narrow upper segment white in subspecies hillii." First off, violet should be before "lower borders". Second off, after the comma, you do not specify whether you are talking about the cheek patch as a whole or just the lower borders. Third off, "narrow upper segment white" should be "a narrow white upper segment". Fourth, you should specify what "these last" are.
changed "these last" to "which" to link. switched the two colour adjectives to the places identified. To me it seems obvious that I am talking about the whole cheek patches of the two subspecies in each segment...? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:04, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm... looking at it now, it does seem pretty obvious. Also, it might be better to say "the latter of which" instead of just "which". RileyBugz会話投稿記録 12:13, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
err, that could make it really confusing. To my eyes, the "which" clearly refers to the cheeks and cheeks alone. Making it "last of which" sounds weird as leads me to wonder how it refers to a portion of the cheeks... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:09, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sentence, "The feathers of the lower neck, mantle and scapulars are black narrowly fringed with yellow, giving a scalloped appearance, while the feathers of the back, rump, upper tail coverts and underparts are pale yellow with black borders, and concealed grey bases; those of the breast have very dark grey bases, occasionally tinged with red", should probably be broken up into two sentences, with a split at the semicolon. RileyBugz会話投稿記録 20:33, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:11, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:11, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:11, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe try and reword this sentence so you don't have two "south"s so close together: "In Western Australia, it is found across the Kimberley south to the 18th parallel south, around Derby, Windjana Gorge National Park, the northern King Leopold Ranges, Springvale Station and Warmun, with vagrants reported at Halls Creek and Fitzroy Crossing." RileyBugz会話投稿記録 20:33, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I just abbreviated it to "18th parallel" as it is obvious which one we're talking about Cas Liber (talk · contribs)
  • Saying "further east country" sounds odd. This can be found in the sentence "t is absent from central Arnhem Land, but is found further east in country around the western and southern coastline of the Gulf of Carpentaria, south to Borroloola and across the border into western Queensland[21] as far as the Nicholson River." RileyBugz会話投稿記録 20:33, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
yeah, reading it again "in country" is redundant so removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:14, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the sentence "The northern rosella lives in grassy open forests and woodlands, including deciduous eucalypt savannah woodlands", do you mean to say that the woodlands are also grassy and open, or not? If not, then maybe switching around the two would do the trick. RileyBugz会話投稿記録 20:33, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I mean they are both grassy and open Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:14, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the sentence "More specific habitat includes vegetation along small creeks and gorges, sandstone outcrops and escarpments, as well as some forested offshore islands", you should probably say "habitats include", as "habitat" seems to be plural. RileyBugz会話投稿記録 14:25, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
was thinking of it as a collective noun but done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:42, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:43, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:42, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:42, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:43, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
reworded, does that help? they generally feed on the ground...unless in canopy. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:46, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • You should not say "winter" in the sentence "Nesting occurs in tree hollows in winter, often in eucalypts located near water." If the source doesn't specify the months, then saying "Northern Hemisphere" or "Southern Hemisphere winter" should be ok. RileyBugz会話投稿記録 14:25, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
SH added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:46, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the sentence "The incubation period is around 19 or 20 days, with the female performing this duty alone", "performing this duty alone" doesn't really make sense, as there isn't a verb that "this duty" refers to. Maybe say instead, "with only the female incubating the eggs". RileyBugz会話投稿記録 14:25, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
changed to "The female incubates the eggs alone, over a period of 19 or 20 days" instead Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:43, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:44, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:44, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
see above - I unabbreviated it in the course of this FAC. Technically they are separate areas of article, like how we link once in lead and once in body. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:43, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • There shouldn't be an Oxford comma in the sentence "Like most species of parrots, the northern rosella is protected by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) with its placement on the Appendix II list of vulnerable species, which makes the import, export, and trade of listed wild-caught animals illegal", as you do not use Oxford commas throughout the rest of the article. RileyBugz会話投稿記録 14:25, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:43, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:43, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's all. RileyBugz会話投稿記録 14:25, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hey @RileyBugz: are you now satisfied with items to this point? Any other issues? cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:28, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ceranthor

[edit]
  • "formerly known as... smutty rosella" - Should this have a "the" before smutty?
could argue that either way (I did muse on this before) - added it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:56, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support Thoroughly impressed with the tightness of the prose here. The images are useful and illustrative, and the references seem sound to me. ceranthor 16:31, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

thx! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:56, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Vanamonde

[edit]

I wanted to comment on Pied Butcherbird, seeing as I'd reviewed it for GAN, but I'm away for a few weeks and it's disappeared...oh well. I guess this will have to do. Also apologies if I raise anything discussed above: the review is as long as the article, and I'm only going to read the one :) Vanamonde (talk) 18:14, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

All my relatively minor concerns have been addressed, happy to support this. Vanamonde (talk) 18:56, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Optional: I wonder if the painting would be better lower down or on the other side, to avoid what is a very narrow block of text on small screens.
Am happy if you want to play around and find a better place for it. All my screens are wide now... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:56, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done
  • Am I alone in thinking that "blue" is typically a dark color, and so "pale cheeks...blue in the Western..." sounds odd? Sky blue? Light blue?
the cheeks are paler than the surrounding feathers, just in some cases they are manily blue and in others white. I could change to "paler" cheeks I guess Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:55, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, let it be; I don't think there's a good way around this.
  • " related eastern and pale-headed rosellas" Maybe link these?
linked - thought I had done already... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:45, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "found that the eastern rosella was basal to the lineage that split into the pale-headed and northern rosellas, and that non-sister taxa were hence able to hybridise" I'm unsure about what is meant here. Why does the eastern lineage being basal allow non-sister clades to hybridise?
It is unusual that species that are not sister taxa can interbreed in nature - but that is what was found here Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:55, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Understood. In which case, should it not be "found that the eastern rosella was basal to the lineage that split into the pale-headed and northern rosellas, and hence, that non-sister taxa were able to hybridise among the rosellas" or something along these lines? Just clarifying that basal-ness implies non-sister hybridization, and not that it allows it.
done as suggested Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 18:14, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It exhibits a sharp and short chit-chut... while perched they make a three note whistle..." These should match, I think?
tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:46, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's a couple of serial comma mismatches again, I think. eg ", and fern-leaved grevillea", ", and fruit"
got 'em all (I think...) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:51, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the conservation section, two consecutive sentences end in "numbers"
tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:52, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some plural-singular switches in "Aviculture"
part-tweaked. I don't think I can singularise the first sentence.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:53, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The prose in this piece is generally very very solid. The ecology section, though, is a bit thin. Is this all there is on the species?
It is not a well-known species in the wild. Much information is missing from birds from northern Australia Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:53, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough.

That's all I have. Solid piece of work as always. Vanamonde (talk) 18:19, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Strong support from Adityavagarwal

[edit]
  • I think in the "Conservation Status" section, we should have the mention of it being least concern at the beginning of the section.
I flipped it Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:13, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Other than this, iIt is a great article, and I see no issues! Adityavagarwal (talk) 13:04, 29 October 2017 (UTC) Strong support It is a beatufully written article! :) Adityavagarwal (talk) 13:24, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment: While alt text is not an explicit requirement at FA, I always feel that we should demonstrate best practice. But whether included or not, I will promote this shortly. Sarastro1 (talk) 17:25, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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