Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sacrifice (2008)/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Ucucha 16:09, 28 March 2012 [1].

Sacrifice (2008)

Nominator(s): WillC 13:24, 3 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is the second nomination for this article. I nominated it long ago in 2009 when I was still a beginner at expansions. Since I've expanded around 50+ articles being mainly title lists and PPVs along with several title belts. Improved my skills a bit by expanding Turning Point (2008) with a different format. Turning Point recently became an FA thankfully, so I've redone Sacrifice to match its format. I started from the ground up completely. I don't believe there is anything left from the original version. I believe its improved an extreme amount. Perfect example is the change in length of the Storylines section. I added a larger Reception section, a Production section, and an On-air employees/Miscellaneous section. An issue with past nominations is the sources. I'll place below why each source is reliable and in the context they are used. I ask if you review this article and have one up for nomination as well that you leave the link as I'm willing to review in return.--WillC 13:24, 3 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

References

Pro Wrestling History: Used once, a site which gathers its information via magazines, books, news reports, promotions, etc. Its used to cover one issue and one issue only that being the attendance of the event. TNA hosts events at the Impact Wrestling Zone, formally known as the "TNA Impact! Zone". Due to holding so many events at the arena, attendance figures are no longer posted since the attendance has become common knowledge unless a show is held elsewhere. As such this site is used to only cover this non-controversial fact since the Impact Zone is a soundstage.
Total Nonstop Action Wrestling: The company holding the event, I.E. a primary reference.
WrestleView: A long standing wrestling news site which has been covered by the SLAM! Sports: Wrestling section of the Canadian Online Explorer. Reports information released by TNA as well as by Pro Wrestling Torch, Wrestling Observer, Slam Sports, and other wrestling and non-wrestling publications. Staff go through a training and background program.
Canadian Online Explorer: Should speak for itself.
Pro Wrestling Torch: See here, its a longstanding newsletter turned website connected to the industry in a variety of ways. The link should tell the blunt of it all. It was created by Wade Keller.
Figure Four Weekly and Wrestling Observer: Merged site of semi-wrestler Bryan Alvarez and longtime wrestling and MMA journalist Dave Meltzer, who has been interviewed and covered by Slam Sports, mentioned by wrestlers such as Bret Hart in his bio, featured in documentaries like Beyond the Mat, etc.
For Your Entertainment: Used to cover DVD release date.
About: Used for event results, owned by The New York Times I believe.

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: Wrestlinglover. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 4 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Oppose~~ – Not that happy with the condition of the prose. Some issues are listed below; please consider getting some copy-editing help, as I'm sure this isn't a comprehensive list.

I'd assume it would have a bit to fix. Hopefully my fixes and replies help put the issues to rest.--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~"It was the fourth under the Sacrifice chronology and fifth event in the 2008 TNA PPV schedule." Move "event" to before "fourth"?~~
- Well its like that due to an issue in the TP review, where the word "event" was used to a large extent. It matches the format used there. Willing to do it as long as it doesn't seem like the article becomes repetitive.--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~Add "were" to "two of which for championships".~~
- Same as above, "were" comes directly after that statement, so it was removed to be direct in an effort to avoid being repetitive.--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"25,000 was the reported figure of purchasers for the event by the Wrestling Observer Newsletter." I don't like seeing numbers starting sentences, but the whole sentence is structured oddly. How about this plainer version: "The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reported that 25,000 (people, households, whatever the appropriate term is) purchased the PPV telecast of the event."?
- Done--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~"the same as the 2007 event's ranking also by Sokol." The "also" is redundant and interferes with the flow of the sentence. Would be best to remove it. Same issue exists in the body.~~
- I disagree, but removed.--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~Background: "TNA released a poster to promote the show sometimes prior...". "sometimes" → "some time"?~~
- Wow, you are the first to catch that after 20 PPVs. Fixed.--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~What is meant to be citing the first paragraph of the Storylines section?~~
- Added ref. A bit of a debate whether it needs to be cited or not. Appears since you mentioned you think it should, so just went ahead and added it.--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~Remove the period after "on the April 17 episode of Impact!"~~
- Actually needed since stylization of Impact is "Impact!".--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Same after "on the April 24 episode of Impact!" and "on the May 1 episode of Impact!" Also a couple of these in the Aftermath section.
- See above.--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~Main event matches: "and ODB. ODB...". Try not to have a repetition like this from one sentence to the next.~~
- Fixed--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~Reception: "which was overall 'interesting'". Feels like it would make more sense if "overall" was put after the quote.~~
- Done--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - ~~Now there's a space after "overall" that needs to be removed.~~ Giants2008 (Talk) 03:12, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The TNA Knockouts Makeover Battle Royal and The Latin American Xchange versus Kip James and Matt Morgan bout was given his lowest of 6 out of 10." "was" → "were". There are two bouts being referred to, not one.
- Done--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~Missing word in "while the Tournament Final 2 and a half stars out of 5."~~ Giants2008 (Talk) 02:35, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Not exactly, as that was my intention but added "received" to help.--WillC 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Still think this needs outside copy-editing help. I know it's probably hard to find people willing to work on wrestling articles, but I feel it's necessary to make the effort in this case. Giants2008 (Talk) 03:12, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - I'll try to find someone.--WillC 05:02, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      - Happy enough with the copy-editing to drop the oppose, but I'd like to see another editor vet the sources before going any further. Giants2008 (Talk) 17:05, 10 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        Alright, sounds good to me. I'll let you know when the sources are brought up. Same ones used in Turning Point which passed recently just to mention.--WillC 17:08, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've started a copyedit of the article, at first glace it looks like the prose could be tightened a bit. A couple questions though:
I'm not too sure if Miscellaneous is a good subsection title.
- It was originally "On-air employees" but has grown to include more information than just the employees, so I changed it to "Other" then to "Miscellaneous" as it seems more appropriate for a Featured Article, as it is with Turning Point.--WillC 23:52, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Hmm, I can't think of a better title either. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:14, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The sentence about its DVD release is in the Reception section, I'm not sure if that's a good place for it (though I don't have any better ideas). Mark Arsten (talk) 21:34, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, its pretty much the only place besides "Aftermath".--WillC 23:52, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Ok, I don't think that would work much better. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:14, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
References 7 and 22 (as of this revision) don't seem to mention Sacrifice, so I think using them to compare Sacrifice to other events may be original research. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:00, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- 7 is covering TNA's previous PPV Lockdown, so its used in the background as well as the Reception. 22 is to compare another industrial event at the time to give a better idea of how well Sacrifice was received. This is similar to movie series articles which compare ratings, revenue, etc with each installment.--WillC 23:52, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Ok, I see what you're going for. Are there any sources that directly compare Sacrifice's numbers to other events though? Mark Arsten (talk) 00:14, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Not that I know of currently. PWTorch releases articles at the end of the year about the events of the year, but not really about reception, moreso about storylines, etc.--WillC 06:56, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Working my way through, some tightening and copyediting, but nothing too egregious, really. I found this sentence a bit difficult to parse (and hence copyedit) though: "A storyline connected this match involved Cage and Rhino having received concussions from the attack by Booker T after their previous match." Mark Arsten (talk) 01:44, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Could be changed to "Prior to the contest, TNA commentator announced Cage and Rhino had received concussions due to the earlier attack by Booker T, in the storyline." It worked into the match and was entirely scripted.--WillC 02:14, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Alright, changed. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:46, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Later, Styles held Homicide in a small package pin attempt until Salinas distracted the referee." Should there be a hyphen here? Mark Arsten (talk) 01:47, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Nope, not from my view.--WillC 02:14, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't think that phrases such as "bashing Kip in the face" or "Laveaux's head was legitimately busted open" were encyclopedic language, is this a convention of the wrestling wikiproject? Mark Arsten (talk) 02:01, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Well "bashing" can be changed to "hitting", but I've used bashing in several articles. The second one is because in wrestling a thing called blading happens. Its where a wrestler will take a bad fall or get attacked by an object. Something that logically would cause a person to bleed. They would pull out a hidden razor blade from their wrist tape or somewhere. Cut their forehead a few times to draw blood without the crowd or anyone seeing this taking place. Laveaux did not blade, instead she was legitimately bleeding due to the match environment.--WillC 02:14, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Ok, if no one else objects, I guess "bashing" is fine. My issue was more with "busted open", maybe "cut open"? Mark Arsten (talk) 02:46, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Yeah, sounds good. "busted open" is usually a wrestling term, its more so promotional use.--WillC 06:46, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      - Funny, I saw this thread just a few minutes after I read your response. Mark Arsten (talk) 13:21, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        Odd--WillC 21:51, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, I finished my copyedit--I think the prose is in decent shape at this point, probably within striking distance of 1a. These are my changes. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:59, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for the copyedit.--WillC 06:46, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I'm leaning support at this point, but I'd like someone else to review the prose (since it's tough for me to judge my own copyedit). Mark Arsten (talk) 13:21, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Thats up to you, I'm sure someone else will review it eventually. Giants will probably take another look at it soon.--WillC 21:51, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, I took some time off of the article and it was copyedited by MathewTownsend, as well. I'm almost ready to support, remaining quibbles:
"Super Eric lifted Kong and slammed her onto B.G. in the ring." doesn't really flow well to me.

- Already been re-written before I got to it, but worked on it a bit myself.--WillC 16:35, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Before the contest, the TNA commentator announced that Booker T's attack on Cage and Rhino had caused them to have concussions in the storyline." Did the commentator announce that it was "in the storyline"? Might want to make that a parenthetical note or something.
- It should be assumed they were storyline injuries as wrestlers are never medically cleared to wrestle with concussions.--WillC 16:35, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The reception section is a bit heavy on quotes, maybe try to paraphrase a few of them.
- In what way?--WillC 16:35, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The decision to remove Kurt Angle from the Sacrifice main event was not made until the day of the show. Angle was expected to be sidelined for at least one month" Try to clear up the chronology here, did they begin expecting him to be sidelined for a month on the day of the show. (And didn't he win a gold medal with a broken neck? He's getting soft in his old age...) Mark Arsten (talk) 18:00, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Report isn't exact on when they believed it but sometime around Sacrifice would be believed. Either way it doesn't matter as Sacrifice was on May 11 while Slammiversary was on June 8. So its below a month no matter how it is looked at. Angle's been having alot of neck-injuries. He's been taking more risks.--WillC 16:35, 27 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Image Review Images are good to go. The NFUR is acceptable.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:03, 20 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.