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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 2 March 2022 [1].

Sjafruddin Prawiranegara

[edit]
Nominator(s): Juxlos (talk) 04:56, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Sjafruddin Prawiranegara, an Indonesian politician/economist who debatably was the country's head of state for a few months (see Emergency Government of the Republic of Indonesia). A fairly influential person throughout the Sukarno period, and had a big say on Indonesian economic policy 1950-1959. He also led the Revolutionary Government of the Republic of Indonesia after that - his two most notable actions are basically fighting a guerrila war first to conserve the Indonesian government, then fighting another one against it 10 years later.

This is my first ever FA nomination, and I had extended the article from something like a C-class to its current state, with some contributions from BarrelProof and The man from Gianyar. Feels like since a certain someone stopped editing a few years back, WP:Indonesia has been losing out on getting new FAs, so figured might as well. Juxlos (talk) 04:56, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Buidhe

[edit]
Image review—pass

Welcome to FAC! Unfortunately, there are some issues with the image licensing.

  • File:Mr. Syafrudin Prawiranegara.jpg, File:Sjafruddin Prawiranegara base PDRI.jpg, File:Sjafruddin Prawiranegara with Sukarno in Yogyakarta, 1949.jpg — the license tag asserts that there was a publication at least 50 years ago, but no such publication is cited in the image description
  • The first one I'm actually not sure of, so I replaced it with one from Dutch archives (fairly sure it's from a Republican poster of the period, but I digress). The second one is an image from the Indonesian military pamphlet (PD-IDGov, not the 50 year thing). 3rd one is from the Indonesian National Archives - the Indonesian Press Photo Service 1949. Juxlos (talk) 12:18, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the third image, is it known if it was actually published in 1949 (or any time before 1971)? Many photo agencies take photographs that were never published. (t · c) buidhe 07:11, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Gunting Sjafruddin Poster.jpg File:Indonesia 1951 250s o.jpg need a US license tag, (possibly {{PD-1996}} but only if it was in the public domain in Indonesia on 1 January 1996.) This also applies to the other images mentioned under the first bullet.

Is it known if he had any opinion on the Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66? (t · c) buidhe 05:15, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Other comments
  • "he continued to be a vocal critic of the New Order government for its utilization of Pancasila"—neither in the lead or the body is there a good explanation of this or what Sjafruddin's position on it was. From the "Post rebellion" section it seems he wasn't against Pancasila itself but it's use "as a political weapon". But it's not really explained how it was used as a political weapon
  • I removed the quotebox in the Emergency Government section. I think that it was a bit confusing as it was out of chronological order (his position on the agreement is explained in the next paragraph) and duplicates what is said there.

(t · c) buidhe 07:31, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]


I'm not convinced that the article is fully comprehensive. I'm able to find information in various sources that looks like it should be included in the article.

  • Thee, Kian Wie (2012). Indonesia's Economy Since Independence. Institute of Southeast Asian Studies. ISBN 978-981-4379-63-2. — this book has a lot of information about Sjafruddin's role in Indonesian economic policy. It is probably better to cite this book than the Ministry of Finance's history as the latter is not an independent source.
  • Added - I happened to use it extensively while writing Sumitro Djojohadikusumo a while after writing this one. The Ministry of Finance source I think I will keep since I mostly used it for specific statements that don't really show up in macroeconomic analysis (like the timing of certain policies, etc.).
  • Added. Missed this specific source as on skim-read it was quite similar to Islam and Politics in Indonesia, so I missed some details. I decided to expand an extra sentence which isn't Sjafruddin by himself per se but feels quite relevant.
  • Latif, Yudi (2008). Indonesian Muslim Intelligentsia and Power. Institute of Southeast Asian Studies. ISBN 978-981-230-471-1. — explains Sjafruddin's position on Pancasila and his reasons for opposing the New Order

The above resources are all accessible via WP:The Wikipedia Library under De Gruyter

  • Thuỷ, Phạm Văn (2019). Beyond Political Skin: Colonial to National Economies in Indonesia and Vietnam (1910s-1960s). Springer. ISBN 978-981-13-3711-6. — has more specifics on Sjafruddin's views on economic policy and why he opposed the nationalization in 1957
  • Looking at the source, I think the Thee Kian Wie one covers it in more detail, down to personal views of Sjafruddin, while Thuy covers it in a somewhat generalist viewpoint. I might skip this one.
  • Fogg, Kevin W. (2019). Indonesia's Islamic Revolution. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-1-108-48787-0. — this one has some more info on the revolutionary period
  • Added - thanks for this, it explicitly states why he joined Masyumi which is something I missed so far.

If you can't access these via Google Books, you can ask for specific chapters or page ranges at WP:RX

  • That was an extensive thesis. Added quite a few things out of it and split out a "Views" section, but in the interest of WP:DUE I limited how much theological-doctrinal thing I included. Plus I'm not too comfortable in my knowledge to write extensively on Islamic theology.

I'm not saying you have to cite all the above works but as it is the article seems to be lacking comprehensiveness in some areas. (t · c) buidhe 08:30, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Quick comments from Sdkb

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I won't be doing a thorough enough review to !vote, but looking at the lead and skimming the rest, here are some thoughts:

  • Per WP:INFONAT, I'm not sure how necessary it is to have |nationality= in the infobox. On the one hand, the birth place being Dutch East Indies adds a bit of potential confusion, as some readers may not know that's the predecessor state, but on the other hand, everything about his biography is Indonesia-related (it's not like he was a duel citizen or something), so I'm not sure it's necessary to mention it in yet another place. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 01:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The decision to wikilink Indonesia in the infobox is perhaps an WP:OVERLINK, but it helps with consistency, so I'm fine with it if it's your preference. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 01:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the first sentence, "statesman" vs. "politician" is always a loaded terminology choice. Which do you think is best, and could you speak to why? {{u|Sdkb}}

 talk 01:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • A number of modern Indonesian sources use "negarawan"/"statesman" when referring to Sjafruddin - e.g. [2], [3]. While obviously some use politician, I feel that the frequency is enough for me to use it. Juxlos (talk) 03:27, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the second paragraph, perhaps wikilink Indonesian nationalism over nationalist movements, as many readers (myself included) may not be familiar with the history. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 01:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Consider changing a predecessor to the Indonesian to a predecessor currency to the Indonesian, as I had to hover over the wikilink to figure out you're talking about currency in that sentence. Also, Indonesian rupiah doesn't capitalize "rupiah"—should it be capitalized there or lowercased here? {{u|Sdkb}} talk 01:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The personal life section doesn't have any information about any hobbies. Would it be possible to add anything about what he liked to do in his free time? {{u|Sdkb}} talk 01:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Best wishes with this FAC! If it passes it'll be a good counter to some of the systemic bias in FAs toward Western topics. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} talk 01:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator note

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Regrettably this is more than three weeks in with little sign of a consensus to promote forming. If there is not significantly further interest over the next three or four days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Juxlos, good to see your FAC ticking along, but do you think that, per the instructions on the FAC main page, you could avoid using the tick and cross templates? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:29, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Serial Support

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Firmly in the knowledge that I know nothing of the people, politics or history of this part of the world, my review can only be one of the prose with a sprinkling of MOS: placeholder. SN54129 19:27, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Mostly suggestions, also in the knowledge that my review will be based on Briteng, so apologies in advance if this contradicts a regional version!
Lead
  • and became engaged in nationalist movements -- perhaps the simpler "and joined several...", if he did?
  • Done. Can't really say "several movements", but "joined the nationalist movement" sounds right
  • Due to his work and closeness to Sutan Sjahrir -- "Due to his proximity to the revolutionary leader Sutan". I think that they worked together probably speaks for itself.
  • Done.
  • he became involved in the Republican government as a finance minister -- "he was appointed finance minister in the Republican government". Senior political post, denotes more than involvement.
  • Done.
  • Following the Roem–Van Roijen Agreement, despite his personal opposition, he -- "Roem–Van Roijen Agreement—which had opposed—he".
  • Done.
  • he returned his governing mandate to Sukarno in July 1949. -- Does this mean he resigned his office? If so, no "however" needed, as you've already said he was opposed to the treaty.
  • Yeah. Removed.
  • In a fully independent Indonesia -- "With Indonesia now independent..."
  • Done.
  • continued his work as finance minister -- was reappointed?
  • Done.
  • Done.
  • along with events in late 1957 -- I would either touch on what kind of events these were (I.E., how they affected his opposition), or just omit mention
  • Done. "Dutch-Indonesian tensions" pretty much describes it.
  • and Sjafruddin surrendered to the government by 1961 -- either "had surrendered" or "in 1961"
  • Done.
  • he continued to become a vocal critic -- "to be"; he had already become
  • Done.
Early life
  • Done.
  • What is ? why "Kuding"?
  • Uhhh... source stated it as a fact without explanation. Probably best removed.
  • who originated from a family of officials -- just "from a family"? (Also loses a duplicate "was")
  • Done.
  • who was exiled to Banten -- "who had been exiled"
  • Done.
  • Per MOS:ACRO1STUSE, are acronyms needed if they're spelt out the first time and only used once?
  • Done.
  • Perhimpoenan Peladjar-Peladjar -- is going to need a bit of explaining, as it's the only time it's mentioned and is currently left hanging.
  • A translation suffice?
  • from 1940 until 1941, he was the chairman -- "from 1940 until (to?) 1941 he was the chairman"
  • Done.
  • During the occupation period -- During the occupation
  • Done.
  • and was regarded by some -- {{who}} will be slapped here  :)
  • The source described an interview with the article subject where he said "others might regard [him] as a Sjahrir follower". Maybe a reword - "and according to Sjafruddin, he was regarded as a member of Sjahrir's non-cooperative resistance despite his denial."
  • he also organized a number of educational courses which were directed against the occupation policy. -- "he organized a number of educational courses directed against the occupation."
  • Done. Kept the "policy" since it was against specific things, not the occupation itself per se
Nat. Rev.
  • His war years are glossed over a bit; nothing else to say?
  • I couldn't find too much about what he did between 1946-1948. Guessing mostly "boring" legwork, being a civilian and all that.
  • "Indonesian National Committee" -- is this a quote? If it's a title, no quote marks are necessary
  • Done.
  • Three committees in ~20 words! We should address this repetition, if possible.
  • Unfortunate, but blame the Indonesian revolutionaries for repetitive diction for that
  • he joined Masjumi, the Islamic political party -- "political" is unnecessary, as we know what kind of parties you are discussing this point. Was it the only Islamic political party? If not, "an" rather than "the".
  • Done.
  • he noted that some considered him a follower of Sjahrir... He was close to Sjahrir -- I understand that a follower =/= closeness, but there is a tension between these two statements, particularly so close to each other.
  • Done. A little rewording, maybe? "His proximity to Sjahrir..."
  • as well as being Minister of Prosperity -- "and Minister of Prosperity" since it is subsequent to earlier jobs
  • Done.
  • for Sjahrir's third cabinet -- "his third cabinet" (also his first cabinet), as repetition
  • Done.
  • Which espoused militancy and downplayed the lack of equipment of the Indonesian military -- could you clarify the relevance of their lack of technology? It doesn't seem directly connected to e.g. what Lenin and Stalin thought.
  • Not done Sjafruddin wanted to paint Lenin/Stalin as realists compared to the unrealistic expectations of the military in this case. Any advice?
  • Per WP:INTEXT "In-text attribution should be used with direct speech", re. the quote about Hatta's hanging.
  • Done.
  • that the Indonesian revolutionaries were communists -- might be personalized, such as "that the Indonesian revolution was communist"?
  • Not done I cite the source as "His discussions with other delegates led him to understand that he and his Indonesian colleagues were perceived by many to be communist". I suppose that's the same, but not sure.
Emergency
  • "who deemed that the Republican power " -- "who deemed the Republican power"
  • Done
  • Funny place to link hatta, after so many previous mentions; tricky. Thoughts?
  • Moved the linking ahead, but kept the context as defense minister (and VP)
  • "In November 1948, he brought" -- "then, in November"?
  • Done
  • "in Yogyakarta fell on that day" -- " in Yogyakarta fell the same day"
  • Done
  • "would fall so quickly" -- perhaps "collapse", to avoid repetitive "fall"
  • Done
  • "the formation of a commissariat in Java, which were to be" -- "was to be" if there was only one.
  • Done
  • "During his time in Bidar Alam" --while in?
  • Done
  • "the PDRI critically allowed the Indonesian fighters to continue having a unifying authority" -- sorry, don't understand; do you mean "at this critical time, the PDRI acted as a united front for republican forces"?
  • In this context, it's more that "the Republican forces can refer to the PDRI as their 'government'." Maybe "the PDRI gave the Indonesian fighters an unified authority during this critical time."
  • "a strong bargaining position" -- how?
  • Maybe like that? In the source it's that Sjafruddin had the ability to actually tell the negotiators what to do (plus military improvements)
  • "considered the legal representation" -- I know what you mean; "represent the legitimate government" perhaps?
  • Done
  • "Hatta had also went to meet Sjafruddin" -- "Hatta had gone to"
  • Done
  • "coming along with Natsir's delegation, he left his hideout" -- who did? I assume S., but Hatta is the last man you mention.
  • Done
  • "an united Indonesian front" -- Indonesian?! (Also I think "a united", even though it's a vowel.)
  • Done - changed to "a united Republican front".
Post war
  • "During the PDRI period" -- when is this?
  • Source only gives 1949 - which doesn't really pinpoint much considering that's like 80% of the PRRI period. Added anyways.
  • "force majeure" -- italicise per MOS:FOREIGNITALICS
  • Done
  • "himself calmed down the situation" -- "calmed the situation"
  • Done
  • "Additionally, Sjafruddin also " -- These mean the same thing; one of them is redundant.
  • Done
  • "a post which he would later retain in the succeeding Natsir Cabinet" -- relevant? (I assume you deal with this later.)
  • Yeah, a lot of the policies mentioned is in the Natsir period which is somewhat longer anyways.
  • "create a uniform currency system" -- "create a uniform legal tender" perhaps, to avoid repetition of "currency".
  • Done
  • "Claims from De Javasche Bank stated that the policy" -- perhaps "De Javasche Bank claimed that the policy"
  • Done
  • Did S. or his govt respond to these claims?
  • Nothing I could find in the source in question.
  • lose "hence"
  • Done
  • Mentioning the improved situation during the Korean War a little premature?
  • I think this is fine - I put it there in the context of increased spending policy from Sumitro and Sjafruddin's strictness which follows.
  • "Despite the better financial situation" -- "Despite the improving financial situation"?
  • Done
  • "Sjafruddin maintained the government budget strictly, maintaining an unpopular" -- "Sjafruddin maintained strict budgetary controls, retaining an unpopular..." Also in this sentence, you shift from the past ("maintained") to the present ()"refusing")
  • Done. A "by" there good?
  • "This was compounded by a number of Dutch officials he maintained within the finance ministry who held significant powers" -- clarify what was being compounded, and what the Duitch officials had to do with it?
  • Done. In the context, political unpopularity.
  • "considered more accommodating than his contemporaries" -- meaning, "considered more accommodating than those of his contemporaries"
  • Done
  • "With regards to his" -- "due to his". So he did not see interest as usury? Perhaps phrase slightly for clarity, something like "S. did not agree that bank interest could be considered riba"?
  • If anything, I think it should be despite - common "religious" view at that time was that interest is usury.
  • "During 1952, a split occurred in Masyumi etc" -- "By 1952, Masyumi had divided between modernist politicians (etc) and traditional Islamist members, who broke off to form/join the..."?
  • Maybe the current version?
  • Done
  • "S. opposed the nationalization on the grounds" -- "opposed this"
  • Done
  • "such as his belief in the lack of necessity to nationalize the bank" -- simplify: "such as his opposition to". In any case, yes, but not for the same reasons? He because the economy was young, them because it would be an act of decolonisation?
  • Done
  • "While in his tenure, Sjafruddin criticized the" -- "while in office"
  • Done
PRRI Rebellion
  • " The general public opinion" -- "Public opinion"
  • Done
  • "Sjafruddin's position" -- "Sjafruddin's policy of"
  • Done
  • "Sentiments against the Netherlands rose significantly following" - "Anti-Dutch sentiment increased after the Dutch successfully blocked"
  • Done
  • "Sjafruddin himself alongside other Masyumi leaders" -- "S. sand other"
  • Done
  • "some of the assassins" -- assaillants
  • Done
  • "being complicit in the assassination" -- surely, "attempted assassination"?
  • Done
  • "Sjafruddin refused to sign the declaration" -- of Independence?
  • PRRI's declaration of formation. Clarified.
  • "with Sjafruddin being named as its prime minister.[73][74] He also doubled as the minister of finance in the PRRI government" -- "with Sjafruddin being named as both prime minister and finance minister[73][74]"
  • Done
  • "from the United States, the military aid was soon withdrawn" -- "from the United States, military aid was soon withdrawn"
  • Done
  • Done
  • "In the proclaimed state" -- "In the proclamation"?
  • Done
  • "but little other details beyond the state's constitution was prepared" -- "but little else beyond the state's constitution was announced"
  • Done
  • "In April and May 1961, PRRI's troops began surrendering" -- "In April and May 1961, they began surrendering", as you finish the previous sentence on the PRRI (and, indeed, begin the next with it also)
  • Done
  • "leaving the civilian leaders little options" -- "few options"
  • Done
  • "29 kilograms (64 lb) of gold" per MOS:CONVERSIONS
  • Done
Post rebellion
  • "and he tended" -- and tended"
  • Done
  • Done
  • So he supported people under Suharto, but preached against Suharto himself?
  • He supported the macroeconomic policies but criticized corruption - I don't think those two sentences contradict each other?
  • Eh, sure
  • "300 pilgrims being abandoned" -- they were abandoned in Mecca with no way of getting home?
  • Yeah. Clarified
  • "detained for a time starting in April 1978" -- "detained for a short period in April 1978"
  • Done
  • "he further lead the" -- "he lead the"
  • Done
  • "Additionally, between 1974 and 1982" -- It's not additional your point, it's fundamental... suggest recasting to something like "the petition questioned the conduct of the Indonesian National Armed Forces and Suharto's use of Pancasila as a political weapon,[92] which from 1974 (and until 1982), had been gradually pushed as the sole guiding principle"
  • Done. Also reworded the next sentence a bit for his 1983 letter.
  • Incidentally, why did the petition question the IAF at that point?
  • General human rights violations - no singular incident in the late 1970s that I can recall.
  • "to protest against the provision" -- "protesting the provision"
  • Done
Personal life
  • "He married Tengku" -- "S. married Tengku"
  • Done
  • "whom he met" -- "whom he had met"?
  • Done
  • "During Sjafruddin's imprisonment" -- should clarify when, as he was imprisoned several times?
  • Done
Death & Legacy
  • "He died in Jakarta" -- "S. died"
  • Done
  • "Having suffered from bronchitis, at around" -- had he recently recovered from Bronchitis or was he still ill with it?
  • He was still with it. Reworded.
  • "he had become more frail" -- "he had grown trailer"
  • Done
  • Do we know when in 1988 he wrote to Kahin?
  • Not clarified in the source, unfortunately, only "1988". One can infer that it's at the earliest in October, so it's definitely a late 1988 letter, but no details on the month. Nevermind, it is in the source.
  • "idealist, and despite his" -- "idealist, who despite his"
  • Done
  • "Indonesia was being colonized by itself" -- this is an extremely interesting idea. Could you clarify briefly what he meant in a footnote?
  • Not much to be said here - the words were mentioned to Rosihan Anwar on S.'s deathbed, and he probably didn't clarify. Maybe I can add Anwar's commentary instead?
  • "He was made" -- "S. was made"
  • Done
  • "after being rejected twice" -- why?
  • Clarified
  • Whaddya know, found a source that describes the controversy. Added a sentence there.
  • "that comprise the Bank Indonesia headquarters" -- perhaps "that comprise Bank Indonesia's headquarters"
  • Done

CMD

[edit]

Enjoying reading through this article. My initial comment on the lead is that there may be some room for tweaks to reach a broader audience. One point that comes to mind is that "Republic of Indonesia" had different meanings during this period, referring to both the de facto (and at points de jure) Java/Sumatra revolutionary entity, and to the larger Indonesia as a whole. A bit of clarity on this, and therefore the reach of the Emergency Government, would be helpful. Another lead area that could use work is the area around "By 1948, due to risks of a Dutch assault, Mohammad Hatta placed him in Bukittinggi". This text feels reasonably inscrutable for someone unfamiliar with the situation at the time. Rather than mention Hatta and Bukittingi, a brief summary of the resumption of hostilities and the capture of Sukarno would be better context to understand how Sjafruddin came to be the head of government, and explain the later mention of handing power back to Sukarno. CMD (talk) 00:19, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Chipmunkdavis: I added some additional context to the first paragraph and to the handover. There isn't much to say about the handover event itself, though. Better? Juxlos (talk) 02:04, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
...Oh, and the lead. I forgot about that earlier. Juxlos (talk) 02:14, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. For coorindators, I believe the changes have alleviated my lead concern (although perhaps someone with less familiarity with that period may be able to offer a better perspective). CMD (talk) 09:46, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria

[edit]

Source review - spotchecks not done, and with the disclaimer that I do not speak Indonesian. Version reviewed

  • Looking at the guideline, I'll remove the ordinal for the Minister of Prosperity (the title changes a lot in the period). Kept the ordinals for the Bank Indonesia and Finance Minister one - BI is explicitly stated. The Finance Minister one can be seen here but I'm not sure how I would put this source in the body of the article. Any suggestions?
  • ...I forgot he had non consecutive terms. Probably best to just remove the ordinal for simplicity.
  • The start date for his term as bank governor in the infobox doesn't match what's in the article text
  • Article text is wrong - corrected.
  • Not seeing the end date for the bank governorship in text. Generally, check that infobox info matches body and is either in the body or cited directly in the infobox
  • Changed, and fixed (was wrong apparently, basing it now on the date of firing).
  • @Nikkimaria: All the infobox items are now in the body - a couple are removed in the "Minister of Prosperity" one - couldn't find an explicit source for that unless I dig for something like "full list of Indonesian cabinets" or something. It's probably his least significant tenure and a post that got renamed like 5x already anyway. Juxlos (talk) 12:11, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Buidhe: On a sidenote - I (mostly) reverted them since looking at a sample of a dozen FAs of politicians, pretty much all of them has filled infoboxes. Not mandatory, yes, but feels pretty much like a MOS thing so I'd prefer to keep them in. Juxlos (talk) 12:12, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ditto for content in the lead
  • Do you have anything specific? So far I've not spotted the lead having any noticeable differences from the body in content.
  • Notes also should be cited - looking particularly at note d
  • May be easier to remove that note specifically. The statement is regarding continuity of government - I based it off the article on the First Hatta Cabinet which cites a source saying that it wasn't legally dissolved, but I can't access the offline source personally so maybe best not to say it.
  • Retrieval dates aren't needed for GBooks links
  • Fixed
  • What makes Pustaka Al Kautsar a high-quality reliable source? Bulan Bintang? Kepustakaan Populer Gramedia?
  • Individually:
  • Bulan Bintang is a primary source - Sjafruddin Prawiranegara's own writing. Too primary?
  • The Kepustakaan Populer Gramedia source is by Remy Madinier, the same author as Islam and Politics in Indonesia book by NUS Press. Author is an authority in the subject.
  • Pustaka Al Kautsar is a little iffy, I agree. It cites Sjafruddin's 1986 autobiography by Ajip Rosidi ([4]) which I couldn't get access to. Maybe I could replace that source with one of the newspaper sources like the Republika one which states the same fact citing the same autobiography?
  • Al Kautsar source supports the part about Minangkabau nobility and the thing about Pagaruyung kingdom - the Minangkabau part is supported by the Kahin source. Also the part about his middle school (MULO) in Madiun (Kahin source skips it, but it must have been somewhere). Juxlos (talk) 05:12, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • How are you ordering Sources?
  • Alphabetical last name, excepting those by institutional publications which I made its own "category".
  • Be consistent in when/if you include publication location.
  • Fixed

Nikkimaria (talk) 02:47, 10 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

[edit]

I've copyedited; please revert anything you disagree with.

  • "he made contacts with dissident army officers and began attacking the government": I'm not clear what "attacking" refers to. This is in the lead; in the body, he writes an open letter to Sukarno but nothing else is mentioned until the civil war starts.
  • "Criticizing" is probably a better term, if a bit soft, but he didn't exactly lob grenades at buildings or something. Changed/
  • "On the other hand, his great-grandfather": not quite idiomatic. I think you mean something like "in contrast", but if you want to see that I think you need a parenthetical explanation of what his father's membership in Sarekat Islam and Budi Utomo implies about his political beliefs.
  • No contrast whatsoever - just removed the idiom and went straight to the fact.
  • "Soetardjo Kartohadikusumo, the sponsor of Soeara Timur": what does sponsor mean here? Owner? Financial benefactor?
  • "in 1940 refused to join the Stadswacht militia": I'd guess this is some form of Dutch-sponsored local militia formed in response to World War II, but it needs to be clearer both what it is and what his refusal implies. Making it "in 1940 refused to join the Stadswacht, the Dutch colonial militia", would probably be enough, if that interpretation is correct.
  • Added.
  • "During the occupation, Sjafruddin developed a feeling of necessity regarding immediate Indonesian independence, and hence he became active in the underground independence movement." A bit clumsily phrased: how about "During the occupation, Sjafruddin became convinced that immediate Indonesian independence was necessary, and became active in the underground independence movement." There's no need for "hence"; the connection is obvious.
  • Changed
  • "He often visited Sutan Sjahrir due to this, and according to Sjafruddin, he was regarded as a member of Sjahrir's non-cooperative resistance despite his denial." This the first time Sutan Sjahrir has been mentioned in the body so a bit more explanation is needed. The second half of the sentence needs some clarification too -- if this means Sjafruddin's denial, are we saying that he never felt he was part of Sjahrir's resistance, but others thought he was? At the time, or later, or both?
  • Added a half-sentence about Sjahrir. And regarding the denial, it's what you said, yeah, and both. I tried to clarify, good enough?
  • "a number of educational courses directed against the occupation policy": does this refer to the Japanese occupation? That seems implausible; for a start it was more an act of war than a policy, but I also find it hard to believe the Japanese would permit anti-Japanese courses to be openly given.
  • Discreet courses - I'll add it. I'll just say against the occupation then - same thing.
  • "In a later interview, he noted that some considered him a follower of Sjahrir within the group, but he did not." Does this refer to the same thing as the denial I asked about above?
  • Yes. I'll remove this one. Bit awkward anyways.
  • "According to Sjafruddin, the KNIP's Working Committee worked to create a democratic government, in part to prevent the international community from perceiving the Republic of Indonesia as a Japanese creation": Is this opinion of Sjafruddin's in agreement with that of historians and his contemporaries, or does it represent a difference of opinion? If the former I don't think we need to say it's his opinion, and in fact we may not need to mention it at all -- this is an article about Sjafruddin, not about the entire independence process. If the latter, then we need to know how his opinion differed, and with whom.
  • It's in agreement. Fair enough.
  • "In 1946, he joined Masjumi, an Islamic party, despite previously having no experience within Islamic organizations": I take it he was raised in Islam, but the article doesn't say so; I would add this to the paragraphs on his early life.
  • "he criticized the Pemuda groups": we need a link or a gloss here.
  • Added
  • "despite himself being a Muslim": why is his religion relevant to the positions he states in the article?
  • It is presented as relevant in the source, but I guess to the reader it might not be. Removed.
  • "a response to Sudirman's speech": who is Sudirman? He's linked, which is better than nothing, but two or three words such as "one of the leaders of the revolutionary military" would help the reader understand the disagreement.
  • Clarified
  • I think bambu runcing needs to be explained inline; in fact the name isn't that important -- it sounds like "spears" would do here, perhaps with a footnote if the particular name has some cultural resonance I'm not aware of. And I'm afraid I know nothing about Indonesian independence, so this is probably an ignorant question, but was it really "Allied forces" that would have been fought? Wasn't the independence fight against the Dutch?
  • Translated the thing - it being bamboo is culturally relevant but not really back then. In 1945-1946, the British took part - Battle of Surabaya is probably the big thing in that specific time.
  • "and the split groups followed up in the following weeks": can we avoid two uses of "follow" in a short space? Perhaps "and the split groups joined him in the following weeks"?
  • "caught up"?
  • "He was given extensive powers in this position, due to tenuous control and communication that the Republican government had on Sumatra." I think this could be phrased more cleanly. How about "He was given extensive powers in this position, since the Republican government had poor communications with Sumatra and only tenuous control."?
  • Changed
  • "In the Masyumi-heavy cabinets between December 1949 and June 1953 (at the end of the Wilopo Cabinet)": why are we mentioning the Wilopo Cabinet here? Following the link I see it refers only to the last year of this four-year period. Do you mean that the Masyumi-heavy cabinets lasted until the end of the Wilopo Cabinet? If we need to make that clear (and I don't understand why it would matter) I would phrase it as "In the Masyumi-heavy cabinets between December 1949 and the end of the Wilopo Cabinet in June 1953". But why do you want to mention it?
  • It's not really necessary to mention, but it's more giving the reader the exact thing instead of the dates. Changed to that/
  • "Sjafruddin being Masyumi's primary outlet of economic policy": if I understand this correctly, I would rephrase it as "Sjafruddin's role being the main way in which Masyumi's economic policy influenced the government".
  • It's more that he's the main spokesperson/policymaker regarding economics in Masyumi. Changed.
  • "...primary outlet of economic policy. One policy of Sjarifuddin was a foreign exchange certificate policy...": can we avoid saying "policy" three times in a short space?
  • Changed
  • "...which granted such certificates at half of the nominal value of exports. This could in turn be sold to importers, who would have to present the certificate with a face value equivalent to the nominal value of their imports." I don't understand this. Can you explain the mechanism?
  • Simplified - it's a bit weird anyways.
  • "Both policies resulted in significant criticism": does "both" refer to the paper money cut and the bank account cut? If so I would make that clearer -- the phrase in the previous paragraph that 'the same "cut" also applied to bank accounts' made me think that the term "Sjafruddin Cut" applied to both, but that can't be the case because you say "This was especially the case with the Sjafruddin Cut".
  • The cut and the certificate system. Clarified.
  • "to develop import substitution industries": what does this mean? "to reduce imports by developing Indonesian industries that could supply substitute goods"? If so I would use that phrasing.
  • An economic term. Added a wikilink.
  • "His unpopularity was compounded by a number of Dutch officials he maintained within the finance ministry who held significant powers": a little awkwardly phrased; suggest "His unpopularity was compounded by his insistence on retaining a number of Dutch officials within the finance ministry who held significant powers", if the sources will support "insistence".
  • I couldn't find "insist" per se, so I'll just use "retention".
  • "After his replacement by fellow Masyumi member Jusuf Wibisono": we haven't said that his tenure ended.
  • Added, and restructured the next sentence.
  • "However, the internal dispute of Masyumi flared once more": I'm not sure what "the internal dispute of Masyumi" refers to. We've talked about disagreements within the government, but not about disagreements within Masyumi. Why is the emphasis here on Masyumi, not the government? And is the second half of this paragraph necessary in an article about Sjafruddin? You don't mention Sjafruddin's position on the Mutual Security Act agreement or in the subsequent dispute.
  • The source strongly implies that Sjafruddin was part of the camp opposing it, but fair enough, it's not explicit. Removed.
  • "and according to Sjafruddin's claim, Houwink agreed with his selection": what does "his selection" mean? Staff? Policies? And we don't need both "according to" and "claim"; either by itself establishes that this is Sjafruddin's own assertion.
  • Sjafruddin being appointed. New wording more clear?
  • "and the reserve requirement failed to fulfill its intended purpose": what was its intended purpose?
  • To be honest, the source doesn't explain in full. Removed that statement - maybe it's obvious to people with solid understanding of monetary theory, which isn't me.
  • Is it "PRRI" or "the PRRI"? I see both.
  • Should be without the "the".
  • "the rehabilitation of both Masyumi and the PSI": what is the PSI?
  • The Indonesian Socialist Party - abbreviation was given a little while back in the "Early national revolution" subsection. Too far away? I extended it then.
  • In the post-rebellion section, the paragraph on Pancasila never defines it; there's a link, but I think something inline is needed.
  • As an Indonesian I didn't even think about defining it, but fair enough. Added.

Overall this is in excellent shape; the list above is long but mostly these are minor points. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:56, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. All issues resolved. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:00, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley

[edit]
  • "a shadow government set up in opposition to the central government of Indonesia". central government of Indonesia links to government of Indonesia. A link to the specific government would be more helpful.
  • There were multiple governments during the era - might be easier to remove the wikilink.
  • "during the Japanese occupation". The dates of the occupation would be helpful.
  • Added
  • "Due to his proximity to revolutionary leader Sutan Sjahrir". Proximity is usually only used as meaning nearness in space. I think "closeness" would be better.
  • Changed
  • "he returned his governing mandate to Sukarno in July 1949." The wording implies that you have previously mentioned that he succeeded Sukarno. This should be stated above.
  • Added
  • "His "Sjafruddin Cut" policy aimed to reduce money supply by physically cutting Dutch-issued banknotes in half." I do not understand this.
  • Better now?
  • "based his views on a liberal Islamic interpretation, although he remained staunchy opposed to communism." Why "although"? You have already made clear he was not a communist.
  • Reworded
  • "Imprisoned until 1966, he continued to be a vocal critic of the New Order government". This wrongly implies continuity before and after 1966. You should make clear that in later years he was opposing the right wing Suharto.
  • Reworded
  • "He wished to continue his studies in Leiden". I would say in the Netherlands for clarity.
  • Sure, added
  • "until the Japanese occupation of the Dutch East Indies". When?
  • Added
  • "Due to this he often visited Sutan Sjahrir". I would leave out "Due to this". It does not logically follow.
  • Fair enough
  • "and according to Sjafruddin, he was then often regarded as a member of Sjahrir's movement despite his denial". A bit clumsy. Maybe "and Sjafruddin stated that he was often wrongly regarded as a member of Sjahrir's movement".
  • That's the way. Changed.
  • In the lead you describe him as an economist, but you only mention legal training. How did he get his knowledge of economics?
  • Experience at the tax office. Regardless, a bunch of sources describe him as one without being very clear about where he got economics training specifically.
  • "Shortly after the proclamation of Indonesian independence, on 24 August 1945". I assumed at first you meant legal independence. You should clarify the position between 1945 and 1949.
  • I think I would keep it - the "proclamation" doesn't really mean much legally for everyone else (in Indonesia it's very much entrenched as the legal date), but it's the proclamation, not the independence. Not sure what I would clarify there.
  • "before his replacement with Alexander Andries Maramis". "replacement by"
  • Changed
  • " Sjafruddin also denounced a number of leaders which called for pemuda to fight". "who called for".
  • Changed
  • "Sjafruddin also denounced" " Sjafruddin also persuaded" Repetition of "also".
  • Changed
  • "In 1947, he participated in Economic Council for Asia and the Far East" "the Economic Council".
  • Changed
  • "with both Sukarno and Hatta". This is the first mention of Sukarno in the main text, yet in the infobox you say he took over from Sukarno as head of the emergency government. You should explain Sukarno's status and position.
  • Huh. Explained.
  • "Dutch ambush at the dawn of 15 January." "at dawn on 15 January".
  • Changed
  • "Shortly after the proclamation of Indonesian independence, he became a member the Indonesian National Committee of the Priangan region on 24 August 1945". I think the article would be easier to follow if you explained the positions of Sukarno and Sjahrir at this point. How about "Indonesian independence was proclaimed in August 1945, with Sukarno as president and Sjahrir as prime minister. On 24 August Prawiranegara became a member the Indonesian National Committee of the Priangan region". Dudley Miles (talk) 16:46, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "was eventually shot down in exchange for an implicit promise". Shot down means compelled, not in return for a promise. Maybe "dropped".
  • Good point, changed
  • "minister of trade and industry Sumitro Djojohadikusumo, to Sjafruddin's opposition", against Sjafruddin's opposition.
  • Changed
  • "After his tenure ended, he was replaced by fellow Masyumi member Jusuf Wibisono in the Sukiman Cabinet. He was a critic of the cabinet's economic policies". "It is unclear who "He" is. I assume you mean that Sjafruddin criticised the policies followed after he lost office, but you should clarify this.
  • Clarified
  • "Sjafruddin also in Palembang and held discussions". I am not sure what you are saying here. While in Palembang? He went to Palembang to hold discussions?
  • I think I messed it up while CE-ing something else. Changed to "also went to Palembang"
  • "He was eventually released on 26 July 1966." You should mention the complete change in political system in 1965.
  • Added
  • " to go to Mekkah". Better Mecca for English speaking readers.
  • Fair enough
  • "Thee Kian Wie". It would be helpful to describe him - The economist Thee Kian Wie"?
  • "Indonesian economist" to be precise.
  • "Thee Kian Wie described Sjafruddin as a pragmatic policymaker along with several contemporaries such as Sumitro and Hatta,[111] although generally Sjafruddin's policies and views were considered more accommodating than those of his contemporaries". Why "although"?
  • Sjafruddin was contrasted to Sumitro and Hatta in this case. Maybe the new sentence is better?
  • He was mentioned in the "PRRI" section along with Hatta. Added his main position at the time as Sultan (his political position was complicated).

Overall

[edit]

@FAC coordinators: Do you think the consensus to promote is there? Juxlos (talk) 04:15, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I only see two general supports; a closing coordinator would want three as a minimum. They would also want a pass from Nikkimaria for the source review. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:37, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Buidhe: and @Nikkimaria: are more or less done, but their call. Juxlos (talk) 15:58, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have anything else to add at this point. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:53, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@FAC coordinators: Good now? Juxlos (talk) 23:28, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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