Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Yugoslav destroyer Ljubljana/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 30 November 2020 [1].

Yugoslav destroyer Ljubljana

Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:25, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about another Yugoslav destroyer with a very short career. Commissioned in December 1939, just after the outbreak of WWII, she was being repaired after an accident when she was captured by the Italians during the April 1941 Axis invasion of Yugoslavia, and was refitted and put into service under the Italian flag as a convoy escort on the North Africa supply run. She was sunk or stranded off the Tunisian coast on 1 April 1943 and declared a total loss. Her sister Beograd and the class article have already been through FAC and her sister Zagreb is just about to emerge from FAC, so if this one is promoted the whole class will be FA. I think I've integrated comments made during those FACs into the current article, so hopefully most of the wrinkles will have been ironed out. The promotion of this article will result in the 36-article Good Topic Ships of the Royal Yugoslav Navy being promoted to Featured. Have at it! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:25, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Images are freely licensed (t · c) buidhe 05:08, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks as always, buidhe! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:48, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Hog Farm

On quarantine, so I'll have time to get to this pretty soon. Hog Farm _Bacon 17:35, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

" Ljubljana entered since in December 1939" - Something feels off here

typo. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:49, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indicate the exact number of Parsons steam turbines in the infobox

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:49, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do we know if the torpedo tubes were mounted above or below the waterline?

No, presumably on deck, as I can't see any in the bow. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:49, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Put laid down and launched in the infobox?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:49, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do we know where she was stationed after commissioning?

No, at the time WWII broke out, her sisters were based at the Bay of Kotor, so presumably there, but not in sources. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:49, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Her searchlight was removed" - First mention of a searchlight we've gotten. Worth mentioning in the characteristics section?

Yep, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:49, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's about all from me. Hog Farm _Bacon 19:25, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Hog Farm, all done as best I can. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:49, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

I looked at this at ACR, and I don't suppose that I will find much more to pick at.

"Ljubljana entered since in December 1939".

Typo, fixed above. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"and some of the crew swam to safety while others were taken aboard fishing vessels." Optional: put this in a separate sentence.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"She was towed to the Bay of Kotor then Rijeka for refitting and repair." Maybe 'then to Rijeka' as I completely misread that first time round.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And that's it. Excellent work. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:28, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much for taking a look, Gog! All done I reckon. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:56, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SandyGeorgia

???? Ljubljana entered since in December 1939, was armed with a main battery of four ... ???

Fixed the typo. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:12, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I got completely mixed up in here and had to re-read and re-read to figure out which country did what ...

In 1940, she ran aground on a reef off the Yugoslav port of Šibenik. Badly damaged, she was taken to port for repairs. She was still under repair when Yugoslavia entered World War II when the German-led Axis powers invaded in April 1941. Ljubljana was captured by the Italians, and after repairs were completed, saw active service in the Royal Italian Navy under the name Lubiana, ... could it be changed to ...

In 1940, she ran aground on a reef off the Yugoslav port of Šibenik; badly damaged, she was taken to port for repairs. Yugoslavia entered World War II after the German-led Axis powers invaded in April 1941, and Ljubljana—still under repair—was captured by the Italians. After repairs were completed, she saw active service in the Royal Italian Navy under the name Lubiana, ... or something like that ...

Did something like that. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:12, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Stronger punctuation break here ?

The KM decided to build three such flotilla leaders, ships that could reach high speeds and would have long endurance.
- The KM decided to build three such flotilla leaders—ships that could reach high speeds and would have long endurance.

Sure, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:12, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nice improvement from last time :) The ship was powered by a pair of Parsons steam turbines driving two propellers,
There is a lot of "removed" in the Career section; could you think of a word variant for one of them? Dismantled? Disassembled? Elimiinated? Or just ... Her searchlight was ~~removed and~~ replaced with

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:12, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Anyway, trusting you will address these, Support. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:49, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look at this one, SG! All done I reckon. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:12, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5

captured by the Italians. After repairs were completed, she saw active service in the Royal Italian Navy under the name Lubiana In this sentence the Royal Italian Navy is linked twice one of them could be replaced by piping Italian to the Kingdom of Italy.

Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Could you split both the "Background" and one the biggest paragraph of "Description and construction" sections?

OK, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In the "Description and construction" section I see a lot of "she"s next to each other. Per WP:SHIPPRONOUNS replace some of them with "the ship" or her name.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Her fire-control system was provided by the Dutch firm Hazemeyer Does Hazemeyer have a wrong link?

No, Hazemeyer was a subsidiary of Siemens & Halske. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Between December 1939 and 24 January 1940 what was she doing?

Great question. probably working up, but sources don't say. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On 24 January 1940, Ljubljana ran into a reef off the Yugoslav port of Šibenik What was she doing here before she ran into a reef? Patrolling?

The sources don't say. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Like above I see a lot of "she"s and "her"s in the "Career" section.

Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Royal Italian Navy under the name Lubiana in October,[16][13] Re-order the refs here.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

troop transport convoys for the German and Italian armies in North Africa Maybe repipe "Italian" to the ""North Africa" division" in the "Royal Italian Army during World War II" article?

I don't think that is a good target. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Brescia states she was stranded off Cap Bon on the Tunisian coast After reading so many articles about the Punic Wars by Gog I already know what the Cap Bon is. Maybe add "peninsula"?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to standardise the 10/13 ISBN codes?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Badly damaged, she was taken to port for repairs Maybe add an article before "port"?

Unneeded, it is fine as is. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"tonnes" --> "t" in the infobox since it's strange that metres is abbreviated but tonnes is not?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 11:47, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, CPA-5. Hopefully I got everything? Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:05, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 14:12, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - Pass

Spotchecks not done
I wonder if sectioning Books and journals and newspapers really does much more than create a larger TOC? Perhaps just bold the sections instead?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:09, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reliability looks fine, consistent formatting, identifiers, locations etc.
Pass for source review, as the second point is not anything required. Aza24 (talk) 00:26, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, Aza24! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:09, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

G'day @FAC coordinators: this has come together quickly, and includes a support from a non-Milhist member, SandyGeorgia. Can I please have a dispensation for a fresh nom? Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:11, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Pendright

Greetings PM - a few minor suggestions/comments. Pendright (talk) 07:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC) Lead[reply]

She was designed to be deployed as part of a division led by the flotilla leader Dubrovnik.

Consider a less passie voice by moving the phrase "to be" -> She was designed [and] ~~to be~~ deployed [to be] as part of a division led by the flotilla leader Dubrovnik.

Badly damaged, she was taken to port for repairs.

Was she taken to "a" port. or taken to "the" port of Šibenik?

She was sunk or stranded off the Tunisian coast on 1 April 1943 and declared a total loss.

To be consistent with the body -> start the sentence with: It is believed that she ... - or The sources differ on whehether she ...

Background

The endurance requirement reflected Yugoslav plans to deploy the ships to the central Mediterranean, where they would be able to operate alongside French and British warships.

"the ships" -> does this refer to ships that have been built, or ships to be built?

Career

The ship was towed to the Bay of Kotor then to Rijeka for refitting and repair.

Consider adding "and" between Kotor & then?

Her funnel tops were also cut to a more raked angle.

Is funnel worthy of a link?

Finished - Pendright (talk) 07:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

G'day Pendright, thanks for having a look, all done I reckon. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:04, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All good, supporting. Regards! Pendright (talk) 01:18, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Wehwalt

Support Short but sweet, I imagine. Just one comment:
"Sources differ as to whether she was sunk or stranded off the Tunisian coast on 1 April 1943 and declared a total loss." Some slight rephrasing or punctuation could make it clearer that in either alternative she was declared a total loss because of what happened on 1 April.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:31, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, I've had a crack at that. Thanks for taking a look, Wehwalt! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:08, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@FAC coordinators: now that I only have this one in the queue, and this one already has five supports, image and source reviews, can I have dispensation for a fresh nom please? Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:22, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67: Sure, go ahead. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:45, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Parsecboy

It seems to me that the connection between Dubrovnik and the Beograd class should be made clearer in the Background section. The reader is left assuming that the "three smaller destroyers" in the last sentence in that section are the Beograds

Clarified. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Link hull (watercraft)

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Could anything be said about the salvage operation in 1940? Right now, we jump from the ship having sunk to being in Sibenik for major repairs. Even something as simple as "the ship was later refloated and towed to Sibenik for repairs" if you don't have any details would be helpful

Added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I assume you don't have any details about what happened to the wreck after the war? Parsecboy (talk) 11:42, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, I searched newspapers, but nothing came up.

I assumed, but figured I should ask. Parsecboy (talk) 10:54, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review, Parsecboy! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work, PM. Parsecboy (talk) 10:54, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@FAC coordinators: this now has SEVEN supports plus image and source reviews. Can someone push the button please? Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:29, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well now that PB's finished I guess we can look at it... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:14, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 09:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.