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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 26 December 2018 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Lesley Manyathela Golden Boot

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Lesley Manyathela Golden Boot (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Liam E. Bekker (talk) 12:38, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because the page contains a well sourced and informative list of seasonal goal scoring achievements by footballers in the South African Premier Division. South African football is not comprehensively covered and the list thus provides a reliable source of information for viewers. Liam E. Bekker (talk) 12:38, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments from ChrisTheDude
    • Rather than simply referring to "in honour of the late Lesley Manyathela", I would explain who he actually was by saying "in honour of Lesley Manyathela, a South African international striker who died [etc]"
    • I would put the image of Parker below the "winners" heading - it looks odd straddling it
    • Don't think the word "conversely" is needed in the lead, especially since it doesn't immediately follow the info about the highest-ever season total
    • "The 2017–18 season saw" - a season can't "see" something
  • Think that's it from me.......... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:35, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response
    • Hi ChrisTheDude, thank you for taking the time to help with this nomination.
      • I have added more infomation on Manyathela, highlighting that he was a former international and recipient of the award.
      • I have moved the image to below the "winners" heading
      • I agree that the sentences don't flow and removed the word "conversely"
      • I have tweaked the wording of the final para of the lede, let me know what you think.
    • Thanks again, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 13:13, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment
    • "....after Polokwane City and Mamelodi Sundowns forwards Rodney Ramagalela and Percy Tau both ended the campaign on 11 goals" - this wording is slightly confusing, it could be interpreted as saying that both players played for both clubs. Maybe "....after forwards Rodney Ramagalela of Polokwane City and Percy Tau of Mamelodi Sundowns both ended the campaign on 11 goals".........? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:10, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Comments from TompaDompa
  1. Images should have WP:ALT text for WP:ACCESSIBILITY reasons.
  2. If there are photographs of the current holders available, having them in the infobox would be nice.
  3. Since the award was renamed, it should be mentioned what it was called before.
  4. The WP:LEAD is a a bit short. There is plenty of space to expand it.
  5. The "Ref(s)" column should be "Ref(s)" (i.e. {{abbr|Ref(s)|Reference(s)}}).
  6. Since the players do not represent the countries they are from but the clubs they play for, including their nationalities is not appropriate.

TompaDompa (talk) 20:22, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Response

Hi TompaDompa, thank you for the feedback.

  • I have added ALT text and removed one image due to a factual inaccuracy.
  • There are unfortunately no images of the current winners, or of those mentioned in the lede. Do you think the image of Parker should be used?
  • The award had no previous name. I have reworded the lede to mention the colloquial name and that it was named - rather than renamed - in 2003.
  • I have added some more info to the lede. Let me know if you think more is required.
  • Added wiki code for Ref.
  • I've left the nationalities in, though. I do believe it is relevant has place in equivalent FL's such as Premier League Golden Boot.

Thanks again for your comments, please let me know if you have any other concerns. Also, ChrisTheDude, please see the abovementioned edits and let me know if you are still happy to support the nom or if there are new tweaks which you feel need to be made. Thanks. Liam E. Bekker (talk) 11:57, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's better to keep the image of Parker where it is. I stand by what I said about nationalities; the players don't represent their countries but their clubs, and this use of flags is proscribed by MOS:SPORTFLAGS. TompaDompa (talk) 14:40, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'll keep the Parker image where it is then, thanks. I disagree with the interpretation of MOS:SPORTFLAGS, though. The nationality of club players is commonly used on like football pages: see Premier League Golden Boot, Premier League Golden Glove, European Golden Shoe, Capocannoniere, List of Ligue 1 top scorers... Liam E. Bekker (talk) 17:43, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and I would say all of those pages contravene the principle of not emphasizing nationality without good reason. TompaDompa (talk) 21:02, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi TompaDompa, please see recommendations below, particularity with regards to nationality, and let me know if the changes I've made cover your concerns. Thanks. 07:05, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 07:30, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • I completely disagree that the inclusion of these player's nationalities is inappropriate or disproportionate. There may be an argument to remove the flags as purely decorative...
  • Probably worth noting it's association football in the opening sentence.
  • "of the late Lesley Manyathela" a little colloquial, and unnecessary considering you go on to explain he was killed earlier that year.
  • Definitely don't leave it until about the fourth sentence to use "footballer" to introduce "association football"!

Got to dash, back shortly. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:26, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Response
Hi The Rambling Man, thank you for your comments. I've now specifically indicated that it is an association football award in the opening line in response to your second and fourth points above. I've also removed the words "the late" as suggested. Let me know when you've had a chance to comment further. Cheers, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 15:00, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Back in the room

  • " inaugural Premier Division season" could pipe link to appropriate article.
  • "the 2004-05 season" en-dash, and put "season" in the pipe.
  • The infobox mentions it's presented by the PSL, that's not mentioned in the lead or referenced.
  • " the lowest number of goals" -> "the fewest goals"
  • " 2013-14 season" en-dash, season in pipe.
  • "an occurence which took place during" -> "after" (because the verbiage is unnecessary/misspelled, and presumably the award is given at the season end, not "during" the season?
  • " Moroka Swallows and Kaizer Chiefs are the clubs with the most winners of the award" odd phrasing, perhaps "Players from Moroka Swallows and Kaizer Chiefs have won the award most times, with each club having four unique winners..."
  • "holds the record for the lowest number of goals " -> "holds the record for the fewest goals "
  • To assuage concerns over the nationality (raised by TompaDompa) you could always consider adding a sentence in the lead about the "winningest" nationality...
  • Ref(s) -> Ref (as there's only one per row).
  • I'm pretty sure there are some Association football list categories that might apply here, e.g. Category:African football trophies and awards
  • Could add Cat:Awards established in 1996.

Otherwise I'm satisfied! The Rambling Man (talk) 16:34, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Response
Hi The Rambling Man, I think I've ticked off all the boxes above. Please double-check me on the sentence I added regarding the nationalities. Cheers, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 07:30, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Liam, I'm out all day, hopefully get back online around 9pm so will respond then. Cheers, The Rambling Man (talk) 07:45, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

  • I'm fairly sure that Apartheid isn't supposed to be treated as a proper noun and doesn't need the capitalization.
  • Reference 1 requires an access date, like the other source links have in their citations. Giants2008 (Talk) 23:08, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Response

Hi Giants2008, thank you for your comments. I have addressed the issues raised. Cheers, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 11:55, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Source Review passed; promoting. --PresN 03:48, 25 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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