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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 08:08, 18 July 2009 [1].

List of Big Brother (U.S.) HouseGuests

[edit]
Nominator(s): Another Believer (Talk) 04:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because I have improved it based on a peer review and believe it meets criteria. I used List of Survivor contestants and List of American Idol finalists as examples. Thanks so much! --Another Believer (Talk) 04:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Big Brother 1 (U.S.) says that Cassandra Waldon is a communications director, not an ambassador. Reywas92Talk 18:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. This FOX article confirms that. List has been updated. --Another Believer (Talk) 19:25, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Truco
Comments from Truco (talk · contribs)
General
  • Dabs and external links check out fine.
Lead
  • The lead needs to be expanded a bit IMO to explain possibly the judging/selection process of the contestants and what the show usually prefers (as in type of people).
I added "Big Brother contestants are chosen by the show's producers following an application process that includes a videotape submission, semi-final interviews at select cities, and a final interview in Los Angeles." Let me know if more detail is required, or if any re-wording needs to be done.
That's fine. =]--Truco 503 02:18, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neil Garcia of Season 9 voluntarily left the house on Day 9 due to an "urgent personal matter";[2] this marked the first time a HouseGuest of the American version of Big Brother left the show voluntarily. --Remove the link to Big Brother (U.S.) per WP:OVERLINK.
Done.
  • The lead does a good job explaining what has occurred with some of the contestants returning, but it doesn't really sum up the list well. I.e. most professions, most common age, etc. (summarizing the stats)
As opposed to calculating an average age, I went ahead and made note of the youngest and oldest contestants.
  • This list only includes contestants entering the competition with a chance of winning; it excludes visitors. The list is ordered by season and finish placement. -- 1)I would remove the last sentence because the list can be sorted so its not really technically "ordered" 2) By stating it as with a chance of winning is POV, reword.
1) Done. 2) Not sure how to re-word. Trying to differentiate actual contestants (HouseGuests) from people that enter the house as visitors (former contestants hosting a game, etc.)
  • Well I would reword it somehow because by stating that this list only includes contestants entering the competition with a chance of winning is a point-of-view of the writer.--Truco 503 16:00, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Removed sentence for now. Personally, I feel it states the obvious anyway, I just kept it because it was leftover from previous edits.
That's cool.--Truco 503 02:18, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
List
  • The status column should sort accordingly to the day they were sent home, not alphabetically.
How is this corrected? With the same sort featured used for the Finish column? If so, what should I do for the Runner-up and Winner, both of which make it to the show's finale?
  • Use the {{sort}} template. Order the winner first and the runner ups second, and the expelled others in order. So it would look like {{sort|01|Winner}} and just change the number for each other instance in descending order.--Truco 503 16:00, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Done. Is that what you meant? The only thing is, when you hit the sort button, it sorts based on finish placement and not the actual day the player left the house. Were you wanting it sorted by finish placement or length of game play? Should I put {{sort|67|Evicted Day 67}}? Just making sure I have done what you want to see.
You got it =]--Truco 503 02:18, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Images
  • Remove the period from all the image captions, they are incomplete sentences
Done.
References
Done. The access dates too, for consistency? --Another Believer (Talk) 02:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Great! Thanks so much for the suggestions. Does that take care of everything? --Another Believer (Talk) 03:30, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:14, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Quick comments I'll do a full review later but here are two things that stand out.
  • "This is a list of" FLs don't begin like this.
Done. I re-worded the lead sentence. Let me know if any others improvements could be made to the lead.
  • "Neil Garcia of Season 9 voluntarily left the house on Day 9 due to an urgent personal matter" "urgent personal matter" is the same phrase that is used in the source; put it in quotes. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:08, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 16:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

  • "Big Brother is an American television show where contestants " "where"-->in which
Done.
  • "The series first aired in 2000, with 10 seasons filmed as of June 2009."-->The series first aired in 2000, and 10 seasons have been filmed as of June 2009.
Done.
  • "that includes a videotape submission, semi-final interviews at select cities, and a final interview in Los Angeles." Change "following" to "through". "includes" implies that there are other steps to being selected that you did not mention; is that the case?
Done. The process includes the steps mentioned. I did not want to go into too much detail, especially in case steps vary by season.
  • After reading the lead, I felt that something was missing. How were HouseGuests removed from the house?
HouseGuests vote to "evict" a resident, much like on Survivor and many other reality shows. I assumed someone reading this list or the main Big Brother articles would already know this.
  • "multiple seasons: In 2006," Make the colon a semicolon.
Done.
  • "8 were selected by American viewers" Comma after here.
Done.
  • "The youngest HouseGuest was Michelle Maradie of Season 4, who entered the house at 19 years old. The oldest HouseGuest was Jerry MacDonald of Season 10, who entered the house at 75 years old."-->The youngest HouseGuest was Michelle Maradie of Season 4, who entered the house at age 19. The oldest HouseGuest was Jerry MacDonald of Season 10, who entered the house at age 75.
Done.
  • "There have been 4 instances" "4"-->four
Done.
  • Readers shouldn't have to click on the links to understand the U.S. state abbreviations. Either spell them out, or create a key.
This hasn't been addressed. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah! My apologies for forgetting. Hmm, would it be better to just combine the city and state abbreviation, like Miami, FL? I feel writing the state names out makes the column too wide, and a state key would distract from the list itself. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:46, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Assuming you're using U.S. postal abbreviations, you could direct readers to List of U.S. state abbreviations#List. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How would I direct readers? With maybe the following under "* Contestant played the game for a second time.": "State abbreviations can be found here"? --Another Believer (Talk) 21:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:54, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Actually, added link as note below table, since legend feature is incorporated with the table. Thanks! --Another Believer (Talk) 22:05, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • You need a symbol (e.g. * ^ #) to accompany the color.
Done.
  • We cannot have so many fair use images in the article, especially when there are free alternatives already there. I think they should all be removed, as they don't have any special quality that elevates them over the free images. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid I am not too familiar with how images work on Wikipedia. I just copied file names that appeared on other Big Brother-related articles. Would you mind removing images that are problematic, if need be? It is a shame I cannot find more free images to use--the image column along the side looks nice.
Removed most of them, unfortunately. When we have multiple free images, we can't claim that the fair-use images are vital to understanding. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
While I find the list more visually appealing with the numerous pictures along the side, rules are rules and I appreciate your assistance with making sure the list complies. Much appreciated! --Another Believer (Talk) 20:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks so much! Hope this satisfies your requests. --Another Believer (Talk) 02:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose until alternative text for images is added (discussion). Dabomb87 (talk) 01:19, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The only image that really needs it is the one of Howie Gordon. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:45, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Like so? --Another Believer (Talk) 02:03, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I edited the alt text a bit; the point is to describe the picture so that even someone who can't see has a rudimentary understanding of what's going on. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:07, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Got it. Wasn't sure how much detail was needed. Thanks so much! Anything else needed to re-gain support? --Another Believer (Talk) 02:09, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The picture of Jamie could be a bit more descriptive (what she's wearing). Dabomb87 (talk) 02:14, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, sorry. Didn't worry about it too much since previous comment stated only Howie's picture needed one. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 02:24, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Comment Check the tool box, there's one dead link. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:31, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Replaced with working link. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:23, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah! Thanks for the reminder. I forgot to go back and double check the information added by others. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:20, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 17:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from SRE.K.A.L.24

I'm a huge Big Brother US fan, so you better make me proud. ;D. Here are my comments:

Will do! (I hope). --Another Believer (Talk) 00:32, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I know Big Brother once used to give a million dollars to the winner instead of 500k.
Really? I don't remember that. The main Big Brother article does not mention a million dollar prize at any point, though I can do some research to verify this. Would you happen to have a source? --Another Believer (Talk) 00:32, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Laugh out loud. I since it's probably not true...since I only watched BB8, 9, and 10, I'm not familiar with the older ones...-- [[SRE.K.A.L.|L.A.K.ERS]] 01:26, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unsort professions, since I don't think they need to be sorted, and eviction dates are not sorted properly.

-- [[SRE.K.A.L.|L.A.K.ERS]] 04:38, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I do not believe the profession column can be unsorted, since the entire table is a 'sortable' wikitable. As for the eviction dates, they are actually sorted by final placement rather than alphabetically. This is not my preference, but I was following the suggestion made by Truco (I believe). Should there be more discussion about the sorting of the evicition column? --Another Believer (Talk) 00:32, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'll unsort the profession column myself. -- [[SRE.K.A.L.|L.A.K.ERS]] 01:26, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Much appreciated! --Another Believer (Talk) 16:10, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Update: The eviction dates now sort based on length of time spent in the house, rather than based on final position. --Another Believer (Talk) 21:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 20:06, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
*Comments
    • I'm not sure how the "status" column is supposed to sort but with the arrow downwards, I get Evicted Day 9, then Evicted Day 13, then Evicted Day 3, then Walked Day 7, then 2 x Evicted Day 14, then Evicted Day 13.... all seems a little random to me. I don't think it should sort the same as the Finish position, it should probably sort for length of time in the house. In fact, that's a better column type than "status".
Actually, I agree. As I said previously, the sort feature for the Status column was added by request. I do not prefer how the column is currently sorted. I believe it should be either alphabetically or based on length of time in the house. How could the latter be achieved? --Another Believer (Talk) 20:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Update: Status column now sorts based on length of stay in house, not on finish position. I think this is much better. I will go back and add the Day for runner-ups and winners to avoid confusion. --Another Believer (Talk) 21:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Is "Riding a bicycle around the world" considered a profession? And do we think our regular readers need to have bicycle linked?
That is the profession officially listed by Big Brother's official website, and what was often stated about James on the show. I have unlinked bicycle. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Lots of primary sourcing used, i.e. CBS who run the show. No secondary sources per WP:RS?
Primary sources are used in general, as I wanted the official names and professions to be used. Other sources used include Seattle Post-Intelligencer, MSNBC, and New York Daily News. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you prefer, I can remove italics for 'HouseGuests' in the first sentence. I was really thinking it was there for emphasis and so that readers noted it before continuing onto the rest of the article. Also, the article title include "HouseGuests", so I thought it should be italicized in the first sentence. Can remove if needed. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Autumn Daly sorts out of order, and why the blank cells? Are these current HouseGuests? If so, at least add an emdash or some kind of note so we know why the "Status" col etc are empty for various folks. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:39, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Corrected Autumn Daly entry. Yes, blank cells represent current HouseGuests. I will make sure the table is updated after each eviction, and sorted properly. Added dashes for now. --Another Believer (Talk) 17:07, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well, originally the Days were not included in the cells at all. The purpose of the column was to display the final fate of each contestant. For most, "Evicted Day X" provided detail about how long they stayed in the house, while "Runner-up" or "Winner" indicated that they made it until the end of the competition. However, since the sorting feature for the column was changed, it seems less confusing to go ahead and include the Day (otherwise, the user does not know how long the last 2 contestants (or 3, in Season 1) remained in the house. However, I used parentheses since I didn't think "Winner Day 88" looked right. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:20, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe, since you're forcing the sort, you could say "Winner on Day.." and "Runner up on Day..." ? Just a thought... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:26, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Would "Evicted: Day 10" and "Runner-up: Day 77" work? --Another Believer (Talk) 18:46, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It sure would. The Rambling Man (talk)
Done. Looks much better! --Another Believer (Talk) 18:56, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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