Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of roller coaster rankings/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Giants2008 00:27, 19 January 2013 [1].

List of roller coaster rankings

Nominator(s): Astros4477 (talk) 21:22, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because it has received a peer review and I believe it meets all the criteria. Astros4477 (talk) 21:22, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from TBrandley (talk) 19:58, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: I have a couple more quick comments after my peer review of this list:

Don't use "currently" per WP:RELTIME
- Done--Astros4477 (talk) 22:31, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Standing but not operating" the first "S" shouldn't be in capitals
- It is now the first word in the row so should be capitalized.--Astros4477 (talk) 22:31, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's all I have. TBr and ley 21:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support TBr and ley 19:58, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from —Andrew_stalk 22:54, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

*~~WP:CAPTION - full stops should only be at the end of complete sentences~~

Fixed.--Astros4477 (talk) 15:21, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~To me, "Tallest steel roller coaster drops" means the height above ground that the drop is located. Why not use "greatest" or "largest" drop?~~

I have changed it to "largest".--Astros4477 (talk) 15:22, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

LA Times vs Los Angeles Times (Publisher?)

Fixed.--Astros4477 (talk) 15:17, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I still can see "LA Times". Every time, LA Times should be italicised, and either only the first one or all wikilinked. It needs to be noted that it is a Tribune Company publication. Ref 67 has no publication date. —Andrew_stalk 22:54, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done Themeparkgc Talk 00:05, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Why is "Press Release" italicised, and why is the 'r' capitalised?~~

Fixed.--Astros4477 (talk) 15:35, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why did you remove the fact that it is a press release? You can use {{cite press release}} for ease. —Andrew_stalk 22:54, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done Themeparkgc Talk 23:55, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~The consecutive rankings in image captions in the 'Poll rankings' sections are unreferenced, and that info does not appear elsewhere in the article, so the captions need inline citations.~~

There is nothing that actually says that but I guess I could cite the Award Rankings for every year?--Astros4477 (talk) 15:32, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that seems appropriate. —Andrew_stalk 22:54, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 00:12, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Roller Coaster Database is linked in some references and not in others. Be consistent - I suggest linking the first time, then leaving unlinked in other cases.~~

Well all of the DataBase roller coaster references are from Template:Cite RCDB. Should the others that aren't automatically linked, changed?--Astros4477 (talk) 15:15, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes - either link them all, or link only the first time. —Andrew_stalk 22:54, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 00:25, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~In 'Largest steel roller coaster drops', how can Top Thrill Dragster (120 m) and Superman: Escape from Krypton and Tower of Terror II (100m) have held the record from May to August 2003?~~ —Andrew_stalk 22:54, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed.--Astros4477 (talk) 23:21, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Phantom's Revenge and Tower of Terror II (different speeds) simultaneously held the "Fastest steel roller coaster" record from January 1997 to March 1997?~~ —Andrew_stalk 22:54, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed Themeparkgc Talk 23:51, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Check other records for inconsistencies.~~ —Andrew_stalk 22:54, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~What does "Max. Vertical Angle" mean? This looks to be nearly 180° from the vertical.~~

Max. Vertical Angle usually deals with drops and not the lift that is pictured in that photo. Besides, that would be considered 90 degrees, not 180.--Astros4477 (talk) 15:26, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, so it's the angle from the horiztonal. This should be defined or explained somewhere. Just as a side note, in loops, is there not every possible angle experienced, seeing as they are full circles? —Andrew_stalk

Well Max. Vertical Angle is on drops, a vertical loop is considered to be an inversion.--Astros4477 (talk) 01:54, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OK, this needs to be explained. A small diagram showing what this angle means would be very helpful. —Andrew_stalk 03:00, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

User:Themeparkgc added a diagram.--Astros4477 (talk) 01:42, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Which roller coaster(s) held the "Tallest wooden roller coaster" record from March 1992 to June 2009?~~ —Andrew_stalk 22:54, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Son of Beast would have held it from 2000 (see below). Will do some digging for 1992 onwards. Themeparkgc Talk 23:51, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Rattler held the record from March 1992 to May 2000. It's being converted into a steel roller coaster for the 2013 season so its no longer a wooden roller coaster, that's why it was removed.--Astros4477 (talk) 18:27, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~What about the "Largest wooden roller coaster drop" from May 2000 to June 2009?~~ —Andrew_stalk 22:54, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That was Son of Beast. It became standing but not operating in June 2009 and stood until this year actually. You can see it in this edit before it was removed on July 28.--Astros4477 (talk) 23:27, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that this should be mentioned, even if it's just as a footnote to the table. —Andrew_stalk 03:00, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have added some Notes about Son of Beast (probably in the wrong spot though).--Astros4477 (talk) 05:39, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd put it in the 'Record held' cell, but meh, that's just personal preference. However, I think that Son of Beast's height, drop distance and speed should be mentioned in the footnote. Adabow (talk) 06:19, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 18:08, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This needs a citation for verification. Adabow (talk) 21:10, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Where would I put the citation? It's not working inside the note and it looks really weird outside the note.--Astros4477 (talk) 22:21, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have done the code, with placeholder refs as "blah". Now you just need to replace with the actual refs. For the SoB one you have to do it every time - use Ctrl+F to find all instances. Adabow (talk) 22:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 23:18, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How Stuff Works and The Virginian-Pilot need their publishers (Discovery Communications and Landmark Media Enterprises, respectively) added.

Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 20:04, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tumblr pages are in no way reliable.

Fixed.--Astros4477 (talk) 20:08, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Roller Coaster King seems to be a blog site

Fixed.--Astros4477 (talk) 20:12, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why is Washington Times-Herald not linked?

Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 20:14, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please check every reference for consistency. Eg BestRollerCoasterPoll.com vs Best Roller Coaster Poll

Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 20:18, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Adabow (talk) 06:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

~~Oppose~~

Image licensing all seems OK to me
Why are ~~Parkz, Experience the Point,~~ Ultimate Roller Coaster ~~and Roller Coaster Database~~ reliable?

—Andrew_stalk 08:13, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ultimate Roller Coaster and Rolller Coaster Database have always been considered reliable. I'm not as too familiar with the other two. I'm sure other sources could be found to replace those if needed.--Astros4477 (talk) 15:11, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy with RCDB (note that it should be in CamelCase—DataBase, not Database), but why has Ultimate Roller Coaster "always been considered reliable"? If more reliable sources are available that can replace dubious ones, then definitely do so. —Andrew_stalk 22:54, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Im afraid Ultimate Roller Coaster and RCDB are the most reliable sources there are.--Astros4477 (talk) 01:49, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the Experience the Point ref, I'll look into the Parkz ref later.--Astros4477 (talk) 00:06, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have replaced the Parkz reference. Themeparkgc Talk 00:56, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the Ultimate Roller Coaster refs where I could.--Astros4477 (talk) 23:55, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral I still have reservations about the reliability of a few of the sources used (in addition to those listed above), but otherwise the list is in pretty good shape. I'll wait and see what other reviewers have to say about the sourcing issue. Adabow (talk) 02:48, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the last two Ultimate Roller Coaster refs.--Astros4477 (talk) 21:56, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I see at least one other occurence. Also, how are [2] and [3] reliable? (The latter lacks publisher info, too). Adabow (talk) 01:34, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:31, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments aha, an interesting and different list, nice! Some quick comments...

Amusement park and theme park link to the same article, so probably no point in linking them both.
- Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 02:33, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No need to link common terms such as wood.
- Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 02:32, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see a ref for your claim of late 1800s...
- Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 22:33, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The following list summarizes some of .... Some notable...." a little vague. And I'm not keen on the "the following list..." in the lead at all.
- Fixed.--Astros4477 (talk) 22:36, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The key for Record holder should have the number 1 along with the background colour per WP:ACCESS.
- Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 02:36, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sortability would be desirable so we could see the record progression.
- Should the whole table or just the record column be sortable?--Astros4477 (talk) 01:41, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ref. -> Ref(s).
- Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 02:41, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Coaster names in the lead or captions are not in italics, but are in italics in the tables...
- Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 20:12, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Drop Height -> Drop height.
- Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 02:41, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, suggest you check all tables for "missing" record holders.
- Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 02:31, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Max. Vertical Angle -> Maximum vertical angle.
- Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 02:49, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Inversion Type-> Inversion type.
- Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 02:50, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Top 10 Steel Roller Coasters of 2012" overcapitalised again.
- Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 03:02, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
2012 Recipient. Ditto.
- Done.--Astros4477 (talk) 03:02, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 12:47, 24 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In the "Tallest wooden roller coasters" section, which held the record from March 1992 to June 2009?
- This is actually being discussed above in User:Adabow's comments.--Astros4477 (talk) 02:31, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Similar question applies to largest wooden roller coaster drop section.
- See comment above.--Astros4477 (talk) 02:31, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Well I think a referenced note should be included to explain to the reader why large timespans have no record holders. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:42, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - That's exactly what we did do. Look here.--Astros4477 (talk) 14:49, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 20:26, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

*Oppose – Per Adabow's source comments above. If two websites of uncertain reliability "are the most reliable sources there are", that tells me that a list based on them shouldn't be featured. Is there any evidence of their reliability other than being better than other unreliable sites? We need to know that they are reliable, not that they are the best in their field. Giants2008 (Talk) 18:06, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

- Well check out the article Roller Coaster DataBase, you'll find why its notable. It's been referred to in a ton of news articles. I don't get why its reliability is in question, its a perfectly good source.--Astros4477 (talk) 19:17, 25 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - For future reference, notability has nothing to do with reliability; a site can meet our notability requirements and still not be considered reliable (IMDB, for example). Most of the sources in the article don't make any reference to how reliable Roller Coaster DataBase is, but a couple use statistics from it. That's a positive sign. Still, I want to see some proof that Ultimate Roller Coaster is reliable before dropping the oppose. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:20, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - I personally don't see any reason as to why it wouldn't be. Yes it's not up to date but all the information matches RCDB. There's only a few places where we actually need the URC ref. Like I said though, it looks like it hasn't been updated in a few years but all the information matches that of RCDB.--Astros4477 (talk) 23:29, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      - Well, we need evidence as to why it is reliable in its own right, not just a lack of proof that it isn't reliable or having its statistics match another website. If RCDB is more reliable than URC, and can cover most of the areas that URC references, I suggest switching to that site where possible. Still. we're going to need evidence of URC's reliability if it is to remain in the article. Giants2008 (Talk) 18:11, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        So you want me to remove the URC ref wherever it's not technically needed? I did find this, I don't know if this makes it any more reliable.--Astros4477 (talk) 18:23, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        Yes, I think that would go some ways toward improving the sourcing. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:44, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        I removed the Ultimate Roller Coaster refs where I could.--Astros4477 (talk) 23:55, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        I'm happy that you did that, but I'm still not comfortable with the site being used, and as long as it is in the article my opposition stands. It looks like there are only two URC references left; are you sure you can't get the same information from better sources? Giants2008 (Talk) 21:33, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        I removed both the remaining URC refs. The first supported an interesting fact but if its the difference between it passing, I guess it's better to remove it.--Astros4477 (talk) 21:56, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - why are there no refs on rows Griffon and Alpengeist of table Tallest roller coasters inversions? And while I'm fine with RCDB based on it being used as a source in multiple news articles, the reason it raises red flags is that there's nothing about it that contradicts the idea that I could go out and submit data for a missing coaster which would be taken at face value by the admins, without fact checking. --Pres N 04:20, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I have added references. I'm not familiar with the person that runs the site but I'm sure he only takes information from trusted sources.--Astros4477 (talk) 04:50, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The only user-contributable part of the website is that of photography. For inclusion, roller coasters have to have been publicly announced by an amusement park or track must be visible onsite for an unknown future roller coaster. See this page for more. The site also has a team of 13 researchers which ensure the information is accurate. Themeparkgc Talk 01:03, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Title is misleading I really thought that the article is about something else. Why isn't the article titled "List of roller coaster records"? Nergaal (talk) 21:12, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Because it's not just about records, its about rankings too. If it was titled records, you would just have, "First roller coaster with 5 inversions", "First roller coaster over 300 feet", "First roller coaster over 100 mph" etc. I think the title is suitable for what the article is about.--Astros4477 (talk) 22:25, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.