Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 April 27

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April 27

Protecting ILLs that need to remain ILLs

Short of translating the foreign-language article, is there a template or something for this? I just saw a bot edit an article to say that a football player was the ruler of Algiers in 1724. Because there can only ever be one Ali Abdi, right? That particular instance has been dealt with now, but I had previously noted that the Amour Mountains are a geological feature on en-wiki but a tribal community that produces rugs on fr-wiki, and that linking to the French article was getting tagged as a CS1 error. Just wondering if there is some preventative template like nowrap. Elinruby (talk) 03:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Elinruby, I have been editing Wikipedia for almost 15 years and I had no idea what the acronym "ILL" meant until I wracked my brain and now assume that you probably mean "interlanguage links". Does the French Wikipedia really say that a mountain range weaves rugs? Since you speak French, I believe, I hope that you corrected that. As for Ali Abdi, that is a disambiguation page, but none of the entries correspond to an 18th century Algerian leader. So, to be frank, I am confused by your post, and am hoping that you can perhaps simplify for simple people like me. Cullen328 (talk) 06:02, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Cullen328: sorry sir. It comes up a lot in the topics I edit and I assumed. So now that we have cleared that up:

1. The mountain range is both articles, but the English article fails to mention that people some Arabic tribal people live there and weave rugs. Compare Amour Range and fr: Djebel Amour. The latter is in French of course, but note the image of the rug, which has a file description in English. This is not fixable by me, because I cannot confidently put a sentence together about the Amour people, other than to say that they make rugs. Which is what I wanted to say at Regency of Algiers. I think I have sufficiently tweaked the wording to avoid this particular problem there. but I had to use passive voice.
2. Ali Abdi was indeed Dey of Algiers in 1725, I assure you. per multiple sources. It turns out that "Ali Abdi" is also a dab page at fr-wiki, and his article there is fr:Baba Abdi, so there was an error in the article to begin with -- names of individuals are very variable in the topic area -- but here is my question:

is there a template that could be used to prevent stuff like this.

As in, yes there is an English-language article with this title, and no, we should not link to it That is what I meant with the analogy to nowrap. As for the link to the correct French article, I am yes about to go fix that again, but I had to track it down. There are several naming and linking problems on the talk page, you may notice. One thing at a time though. Is there such a template? Elinruby (talk) 06:39, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Elinruby, the older I get, the more I realize how much I do not know. When I search online for "Amour rugs", I find one specific commercial rug marketing company using that term, but not others and nothing more in Google Books, for example. I may well be missing something. Is the term possibly rendered differently in English among rug experts? The search results are flooded with the common French word "amour", of course, and also Old West works by Louis L'Amour, who apparently discussed rugs several times in his 89 novels. As for the bot problem, I see that you are already discussing the issue at User talk:Kanashimi, who operates the bot. I still lack a clear understanding of what function the template you are looking for would actually carry out, so maybe another editor may have some ideas for you. Sorry that I cannot be of greater assistance. Cullen328 (talk) 07:16, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

I think all the sources on the rugs are in Arabic, Cullen. Or possibly Berber. That's why I can't just translate my way out of this. But maybe if I ask the question without specifics, because the bot per se is not the problem:

The problem arises when the English article with the same title is not about the same thing or is less complete.

People really really want to link to the English article without considering whether it is correct or complete. Not linking to it is considered an error that gets "fixed". If you don't know of such a template, ok. Thanks for listening. I was just trying to find a more elegant solution that isn't ad hoc.Elinruby (talk) 07:37, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Have you tried contacting kanashimi the operator of Cewbot that made the erroneous edit? [add]Sorry, I missed the mention above that there is discussion at User talk:Kanashimi#Sometimes there is a reason for the ILL link. Regarding the rugs, that doesn't seem to be an issue with {{ill}} usage at all, just different amounts of information in the different language wikis. Nothing to be done there other than to translate/import the useful information. older ≠ wiser 11:46, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Elinruby: It was yourself who made the Ali Abdi error by changing an unlinked Ali Abdi to {{ILL|Ali Abdi|fr}}.[1] Your code claims it's the person in fr:Ali Abdi and that's Ali Abdi (footballer) so the bot had good reason to link our own article about that Ali Abdi. I haven't examined your other case. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:53, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

(ec) Hi PrimeHunter, nice to meet you too. It is always nice when someone comes along to run wikiblame. I know I have already said somewhere that it could have been me so.. can we deal with the actual question? You're sounding like you need a break from the help desk. I say this as someone who burned out on tech support myself a while back. Now. The Ali Abdi link is fixed. I said in at least one of the other three or four times I have explained this tonight that I might well have been the person who linked to Ali Abdi instead of Baba Ali or... I think the other name of this person is Kur Ali. There is a long list of other such naming problems on the article talk page. but the Ali Abdi in question is not currently a football player in Tunisia since he was putting down a mutiny in Algiers in the early 18th century. I hope you don't talk to newbies like that, PrimeHunter.

@Bkonrad: thanks for the courteous suggestion. That is the traditional solution to this, yes. I was looking for something else because I do not trust the French article and if I translate it I have to vouch for it. And I don't speak Arabic. So ad hoc solutions it is, then. I guess. And ya, kanashimi and I have spoken and that may lead somewhere, but the bot is merely the symptom of the problem, which is the underlying assumption that the English article is correct and complete. There are many bots, sigh. Thank you all for your input, but apparently the answer is no, there is no software solution to this. Go ahead and close the post; I will go another route on this.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Elinruby (talk • contribs) 12:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

You didn't say here that it could have been you but I now see you said it at User talk:Kanashimi#Sometimes there is a reason for the ILL link. I'm not sure what you mean by "the actual question". If you mean whether there is a way to tell bots to not link the subject an {{ILL}} link like {{ILL|Ali Abdi|fr}} says it's about then I don't think it's possible or should be possible. The whole purpose of using the template is to link an English article if it exists. And it's not realistic to get a bot to analyze fr:Ali Abdi and guess from the context that somebody tried to link the wrong person. You can maybe avoid bots by not using the template at all. Help:Interlanguage links#Inline links (links in the text of the article) gives several variations with links like fr:Ali Abdi (note the colon in front of the wikitext [[:fr:Ali Abdi]]). However, it would link the footballer, just in the French Wikipedia, and Help:Interlanguage links#Inline links (links in the text of the article) says "The best practice is to use the template". If you want to use {{ILL}} to link fr:Baba Abdi but display "Ali Abdi" without linking an English article until one is created about the right person then you have to suggest a name for a future article, and that name will be linked. Using the disambiguator in Haji Ali (Dey of Algiers): {{ILL|Ali Abdi (Dey of Algiers)|lt=Ali Abdi|fr|Baba Abdi}} produces Ali Abdi. There is no guarantee that a future article will actually get that name or be linked if it's created by somebody who didn't see your link. I haven't examined whether the common name in English sources is Ali Abdi, Baba Abdi or something else, and an "Ali Abdi" title might use another disambiguator or a longer name like Ali Abdi Pasha. Special:WhatLinksHere/Baba Abdi shows three links (I think at least one of them by you) so maybe the simple {{ILL|Baba Abdi|fr}} to produce Baba Abdi is OK. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Elinruby: PrimeHunter's reply to you was both correct and polite. It is comments like "You're sounding like you need a break from the help desk" that are not acceptable. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

His follow-up was good, I will give him that. Elinruby (talk) 21:11, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think I would be quick to take offense about the suggestion to take a break from the help desk. I am grateful there are people willing to perform such tasks, and if they do something less than perfectly that's okay. By the same token, there are going to be times when somebody may believe you haven't provided the perfect answer, and as long as they're not truly uncivil about it, that should be okay too, whether or not it's factually justified. Fabrickator (talk) 21:33, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

not what happened here but fine. He started from fingerpointing nad self-corrected. I did tech support for more than ten years. I am sympathetic to burnout. I also would have been fired or at least counseled for talking to a user that way. If this isn't going to get closed I will go ahead and unsubscribe. I found what I was looking for after a fresh dive into the documentation, and the lt parameter is also worth another look as PH suggested in his second answer. I am not a new user so no harm was done. Elinruby (talk) 21:46, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Selected reviews on Peter Cusack (musician) article

I have noticed that the Peter Cusack (musician) article includes a section that is nothing but quotes from reviews about his albums. Is this, for the lack of a better word, allowed? I have not seen such a thing on articles for other musicians. Still-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Butter (talk) 00:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Removed per WP:UNDUE. --Orange Mike | Talk 03:45, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

account deletion

hi hi how are you everyone i've done a renamed user like a year ago and i want to like delete my account cuz i just did one edit and i dont see myself using a wikipedia account like ever again yeah Renamed user l3x1w45nth3r3l0lll (talk) 00:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Renamed user l3x1w45nth3r3l0lll due to attribution reasons, accounts on Wikipedia can't be deleted. Just stop using this account. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 01:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

oh okay Renamed user l3x1w45nth3r3l0lll (talk) 02:23, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Editing and Mentor

I am a new user of wikipedia with a new account. I made some edits and wanted to ask the mentor I was assigned a question but my question does not go through. It says only established editors can ask questions. So my question is this

Hello.  I made edits to a page - David G Smith - on April 16, 2024 at 23:39.  How will I know if these edits are published? Thanks. Sharon Maroney (talk) 00:30, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

According to the edit history of David G. Smith (musician), you made edits but they were removed as overly promotional. 331dot (talk) 00:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Sharon Maroney: Do you refer to a mentor name you see at Special:Homepage? What is the name? Try contacting the mentor again when you have made at least one more edit. The next will be your tenth edit, making your account autoconfirmed. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:30, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank You. Sharon Maroney (talk) 14:20, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank You for your quick and clear info. I'm learning. Sharon Maroney (talk) 14:18, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you to everyone who works on making Wikipedia a wonderful website full of useful and fun information! I hope you all are having a good day. 2601:40:C87F:AF95:0:0:0:C0 (talk) 03:01, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

General question

Hello,

I was wondering, can a graphic designer be eligible for a article who had win a award plaque on here cause LuckyDesigns, who had won a Official Charts award cause he recently won a UK R&B Singles and Albums Charts Number 1 award section for his work on Do Not Disturb by Nemzzz. Or is there more to be needed for it?. 2601:201:8000:5BB0:512E:ABE4:CC65:AC71 (talk) 06:18, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello. That depends entirely on whether or not multiple reliable, independent published sources devoted significant coverage to this graphic designer. Please read and study Your first article. We certainly have some articles about people who contribute to musical album photography and graphic design, but multiple independent reliable sources devoting independent coverage are required. I personally worked on one such article, Ethan Russell. Please note, that article has 14 references. Cullen328 (talk) 07:34, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Referencing errors on Southern Kaduna genocide

Reference help requested. Hi @Qwerfjkl. I need your help to detect the error location and correct it. Thanks, Kambai Akau (talk) 07:30, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Kambai Akau. The March 29 edit you linked to used a citation template that requires a title, but the title field was left blank. If no title is given, the template produces an error message. The problem must have been corrected in the interim, because I do not see the error message in the current version of the article. Cullen328 (talk) 07:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Cullen328. I wonder what was in my mind at the moment to have made the error in the initial instance. All the same, warm regards. Kambai Akau (talk) 08:02, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Kambai Akau, every single Wikipedia editor makes occasional errors, and this was a fairly minor one. Warm regards to you as well. Cullen328 (talk) 09:00, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Cullen328. Kambai Akau (talk) 09:08, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Help with 64.189.18.35

Hello, 64.189.18.35 is making a huge number of edits all of a sudden. A good number of them seem above board and helpful (which is why I am coming here and not ANI, AIV, or SPI). The user is eliminating a large of red links, so I left a message about the red links guidelines. The user has deleted content from North African campaign, twice claiming no source. See here 1. However there is material that is clearly sourced to books. I am worried that the user might not understand when books are being sourced. Rather than attempting to help improve articles, the user prefers to remove content. Which is kind of fine, but sometimes unconstructive.

I also worry about a sock, but can not point to anything definitive yet. Asking for help reviewing their contributions and kindly asking the user to be a little more constructive if you think it is warranted. Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 07:40, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the message, @Classicwiki. Taking out sources completely and not improving on them is really bad. In that case, I will ask the user to be more constructive about editing sources of reference and not go about deleting them completely without providing a solution. Much appreciated! Kambai Akau (talk) 07:57, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Kambai Akau - Thanks! I did end up reporting to AIV, but have mixed feelings about it. Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 07:59, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Classicwiki, hopefully something would be done on the editor's approach if not now, subsequently. Warm regards. Kambai Akau (talk) 08:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Kambai Akau - AIV admin is recommending ANI, but I do not have the energy to keep following this. So I am going to hope others help out if there are still problems. Classicwiki (talk) If you reply here, please ping me. 08:08, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Lol. Cool decision. It could be quite a lengthy conversation requiring a great deal of time investment. Kambai Akau (talk) 09:19, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Transcluded section

How do you fix cite error duplicate reference names when you have a section transcluded from another article, as seen here in 2014 FIFA World Cup qualification. I'm flummoxed. Thanks. Isaidnoway (talk) 09:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Isaidnoway: A reference with the same name is transcluded from multiple articles. That's tricky. I used Special:ExpandTemplates on the whole 2014 FIFA World Cup qualification to search for "soccer365". I found one definition with slightly different text and changed it.[2] It easily breaks again if anyone changes anything in one of the many definitions. A more stable fix would be to only define the reference in a template and then transclude the template in all the articles. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:08, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

PrimeHunter, thank you for your assistance. I'm curious, would have changing the ref name in the other article also fixed the duplicate reference name issue? Isaidnoway (talk) 15:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Isaidnoway: Yes, but the article would get two separate references with identical content (except for a non-displayed extra space). We prefer to avoid that. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:24, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Server issue

Often while I am editing I get a notification when I switch between visual and source editing as "The server did not respond within the expected time.". And my edits are getting erased while switching. Pagers (talk) 09:54, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Pagers. Unless other people are reporting this as well, it is likely to be your device or your network with the problem. If others have reported it, you'll probably find them at WP:VPT. ColinFine (talk) 16:09, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Neil Sean

All of the information included on my bio page which I did not instruct myself is detrimental to the one I wish to put up. The information is totally incorrect in every single facet and is now causing a problem to my business of which if not removed will prove very damaging and I will be looking to towards your company as to why this has been allowed to be made public, please remove 194.6.254.76 (talk) 10:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Assuming you are Neil Sean, the content of the article about you (which is not owned by you) depends on what reliable sources have published about you and not on what you want it to say. As you are the article's subject, you have a conflict of interest and should not edit it yourself. You may suggest edits to the article at Talk:Neil Sean. Rummskartoffel 10:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

I'll just add this link which basically says the same thing: Wikipedia:Contact us/Article subjects.  —Smalljim  10:34, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

If you really mean "The information is totally incorrect in every single facet" then the article must be about somebody else. I see you changed the names of Neil Sean's parents.[3] His own book says "Alan Scott and Ann Montini (my mother and father)".[4] That's the names in our article. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:23, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

I have started a discussion at Talk:Neil Sean#NPOV. TSventon (talk) 11:27, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

This is an obvious troll and should not be entertained per my comments on the talk page.--Launchballer 13:18, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Is there anyone here who can review my page?

Anyone? Lennox Levine (talk) 10:56, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Lennox Levine: Which page? Most of your work has been on Template:Coal. Do you mean that? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:16, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

No, I'm the author of Coal sidebar, same topic but different categories! It was reviewed and cleared yesterday. Lennox Levine (talk) 09:05, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Australian Musicals

The 1982 Australian Musical "Starstruck" is not in your list of Australian musicals. 211.30.22.100 (talk) 13:19, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't know how to add it to the list, or even if that is still possible, or I would add it myself, If someone could add it, that would be great. It stars 'Jo Kennedy' and is rather hard to find since a Disney musical of the same name has been released. 211.30.22.100 (talk) 13:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Seems to me that it's the article Starstruck (1982 film). LightNightLights (talk • contribs) 13:33, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Please give the exact title or URL of any page you want help with. There is no page called "Australian Musicals" or "List of Australian musicals". If you refer to Category:Australian musical films then Starstruck (1982 film) is in the subcategory Category:Australian musical comedy-drama films. We don't usually list a film in both a subcategory and its parent category. If you refer to Category:Australian musicals then it's for stage musicals and not films. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:40, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Which links should be included in politician's wikiboxes?

I noticed that some of them have just their official government website, some have just their personal campaign site, while other have both their official government website and their personal campaign site.

Which of these combinations is preferable? Thank you. CGP05 (talk) 13:37, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, CGP05. At the end of the External links guideline, you will find note "h", which says Situations in which multiple official links are typically provided include: The biography of an elected official might link to both an official government website and the official's political party or campaign website (see, e.g., Barack Obama, Narendra Modi). Cullen328 (talk) 17:58, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! CGP05 pr(talk) 18:32, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Of course, Barack Obama is no longer an elected official, but the general principle still applies. Cullen328 (talk) 19:35, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Meant to keep new page as draft, but inadvertently caused it to go live

I thought I was drafting the new page "Peter Hruschka", with the intention of several more drafts before submitting it for review. But somehow it has gone live. Is there a way to convert it to draft? Camdenmaine (talk) 13:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Camdenmaine: As seen with the "Draft" prefix in Draft:Peter Hruschka, your draft is still in draftspace. Drafts are public, even when they haven't made it onto mainspace yet. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:06, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Tenryuu, the page was in mainspace when Camdenmaine asked, but was then moved to draftspace two minutes later. TSventon (talk) 14:11, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

 Self-trout. Ah, thanks for clearing that up. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:20, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

How to transfer a User:Name page to a normal Wikipedia page

I would like to get rid of the user: in front of my webpage, User:Langekuettner

How can I do this? Langekuettner (talk) 14:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Langekuettner: I have moved the page to User:Langekuettner/Sandbox. Please read WP:Autobiography, WP:V and WP:N. If or when you think the page meets the criteria set out on those pages, you may submit it for review using the process described at WP:AFC. Please note that it currently does not, as it cites a lot of your own publications, but no reliable, independent sources about you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:00, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Your user page is intended as a place for the named person to tell about themselves as a Wikipedia user; the sandbox is where drafts can be developed. 331dot (talk) 21:33, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Help with wikidata item

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I was trying to link the various pages of pepper (Capsicum) from rowiki with its counterparts in enwiki. But I messed up the Capsicum annuum interlanguage links instead. Can somebody help me undo my mess? Please and thanks! ♦ WikiUser70176 ♦^{(My talk page)} 15:54, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Hey, @WikiUser70176, ask only in one place, to keep multiple editors from answering. Valereee (talk) 16:12, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References in lists of publications

I sometimes see articles with a list of publications (or bibliography, further reading etc.) that include a reference to the listed publication. For example:

• Jane Doe (1908), Publication Title

References

There's nothing wrong with this, but it seems redundant. Is there a guideline or essay addressing or discouraging the practice? 76.14.122.5 (talk) 17:29, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes. As with many other things, Wikipedia supports different standards or approaches, and does not call for consistency except within an article. See WP:CITESTYLE. ColinFine (talk) 18:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

There is usually something extra in the reference like a publisher, ISBN number or external link. Do you have a real example? PrimeHunter (talk) 20:27, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

How to figure out what image to include on a Wikipedia page?

Hi, I want to include a picture of Mia Mulder to her Wikipedia page. I looked for images on Wikimedia but I wasn't able to find any. Online, there are a lot of photos from user-generated content sites. Are these allowed to be uploaded, or should I find an "official" image? Where can I upload images? pauliesnug ^{(message / contribs)} 21:57, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Pauliesnug. Any image you add must be either freely licensed or in the public domain. The vast majority of random images you find online are copyright restricted and therefore cannot be used to illustrate the biography of a living person on Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 01:32, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

How long can lists be?

Hello! In the process of de-orphaning articles, I came across the article of an Indian village named Dhankoli. After some searching, I found its takula(seems to be Indian city/county equivalent of Western culture) of Dapoli. I went through the process of merging a stub duplicate article to Dapoli, but here's my question: Since there are many villages in Dakoli, would it be appropriate to add a list to the Dapoli article or make a list article( e.g "List of villages in Dapoli"), or would the list be too long?

Thanks, PolarClimates (talk) 23:48, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, PolarClimates. Lists are a type of article and the relevant guideline is Wikipedia:Article size. Guidance on how to split up lists can be found at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (lists). Cullen328 (talk) 01:40, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists#List size says lists should be as short as feasible, if that helps. TSventon (talk) 01:47, 28 April 2024 (UTC)