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February 29

February 29, 2012 (2012-02-29) (Wednesday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters

International relations
  • North Korea agrees to suspend uranium enrichment and nuclear and long-range missile tests in return for food aid. (BBC) (Al Jazeera)
  • Egypt lifts a travel ban on seven Americans employed by pro-democracy U.S. groups, including the son of U.S. Transportation secretary Ray LaHood, who is among 16 Americans on trial in Egypt for trying to foment unrest and incite protests against the nation's military rulers. (USA Today)
  • In the British parliament Baroness Jenny Tonge resigns the Liberal Democrat party whip after accusations of making offensive remarks about Israel. (The Guardian)

Politics

Sport

[Posted] Davy Jones

Article: Davy Jones (actor) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Davy Jones, a member of The Monkees, dies at the age of 66. (Post)
News source(s): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17214430 http://www.backstageol.com/music-news/monkees-singer-davy-jones-dies-at-66/ http://entertainment.time.com/2012/02/29/rip-davy-jones-the-monkees-daydreamboat/?xid=rss-topstories
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Unfortunately it is another musician death but The Monkees was a significant band in the 1960s, like The Beatles everybody would had at least grew up with or have heard their music at least once in their life. At least he was influential enough to be mentioned by TIME upon his passing. --Donnie Park (talk) 21:23, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose The Monkees were significant enough that I know who they were, but not significant enough to be posted ITN IMHO. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:03, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support. I don't think this can be opposed for lack of significance. In their day, the Monkees were absolutely massive. If we can post Whitney Houston and REM splitting up, we can surely post this. However, I had a look through the article and parts of it seemed plain confusing. If it gets improved some then I might strike the "weak". --FormerIP (talk) 02:14, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - lead singer of one of the 5 most popular bands of the 60s and one of the top few "teenage heartthrobs" of the decade. If The Monkees were a contemporary band, there would be zero doubt in anyone's mind about posting his death. --ThaddeusB (talk) 04:44, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Muboshgu. Not quite at the level of international significance where putting the death up is justified. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 05:32, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Far bigger hit tally than many of those who have been featured here, and profile through the TV show that was way beyond that enjoyed by even the most popular bands today. 66 is untimely death for those who consider that a relevant criteria.Iconic character of era. Without the Monkees TV show, we wouldn't have had the Jackson 5ive and all that came from that. Wikipedia is for 40somethings as well as all you youngsters out there Kevin McE (talk) 07:25, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As per Kevin, mostly. I am not wet behind the ears (indeed, in two weeks time, I'm even less wet). This is a significant (and upsetting) death of an icon in his time and from a band which did far more than just I'm A Believer. A significant development which fits the ever shifting rules of ITN.
  • Support per Kevin. He's right, the Monkees were as important to the disenfranchised youth of the 60s as REM was to the disenfranchised youth of the 90s. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 12:42, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I was a bit redundant to support, but his death is top story everywhere, being compared to Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston deaths by the publisher of Billboard. That's extremely significant. [1], I don't think any other member of the Monkees deserve a posting in ITN if they die. Secret account 18:31, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
One of the strangest uses of the word if I have seen for a long time. Kevin McE (talk) 19:03, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Bleh I meant when, was typing extremely fast and at work. Secret account 19:20, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] North Korea nuclear moritorium

Article: North Korea and weapons of mass destruction (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ North Korea agrees to suspend uranium enrichment (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated

 The Rambling Man (talk) 14:57, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Tokyo Sky Tree

Article: Tokyo Sky Tree (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Construction of the Tokyo Sky Tree, the tallest tower in the world, is completed. (Post)
News source(s): Japan Times, The Straits Times, The Age

 --61.245.26.23 (talk) 13:49, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 28

February 28, 2012 (2012-02-28) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy
  • Millions of workers in India go on strike to demand improved rights and express anger at rising prices. (Hindustan Times)

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics

Science

Sport

Technology

Syria

Article: 2011–2012 Syrian uprising (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United Nations calls for a cease fire in the ongoing Syrian uprising while estimating 7,500 people have been killed to date. (Post)
News source(s): (Al Jazeera)(VOA)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Might be good time to do a full blurb on Syria. --ThaddeusB (talk) 03:39, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

strong/oiosu oppose nothign happened a call buy a talkshhop means nada! though the referendum could be notable to get syria -related on ITN.Lihaas (talk) 10:27, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
oiosu? --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:01, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious? -- tariqabjotu 20:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Daytona 500

Article: 2012 Daytona 500 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In auto racing, Matt Kenseth wins the Daytona 500. (Post)
News source(s): [2]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: In addition to being one of the most important races of the year, this year's Daytona 500 has a series of unusual happenings that are causing people to call it "the wildest ever". If deemed worthy of inclusion, I will be happy to improve the quality of the update. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:45, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Most important single race on the NASCAR circuit, on par with the Indianapolis 500 in terms of significance. The Daytona 500 is on-par with a Golf or Tennis Major event in terms of how it is treated within racing. This one also had some unusual events, as noted in the nom. --Jayron32 21:36, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Some perspective, please. Tennis majors are truly international events, with players from many countries from all over the globe. Golf less so. NASCAR? Minor news outside the USA. This posting may be justified, but such hype is unhelpful. HiLo48 (talk) 12:57, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Article needs more references, especially in the race summary. SpencerT♦C 03:26, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Minor interest sport. doktorb wordsdeeds 13:19, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • While I do think it's significant and do think it deserves posting, I really can't argue with HiLo48's argument that it's really not of international interest (so far as I know NASCAR doesn't even hold races outside of the US), and it's interest within the US even seems to be somewhat regional (more interest the further south and east you go). If consensus comes out that this is of enough international interest to post by all means consider this a support, but I have my suspicions that my perspective of its suitability for ITN is different due to living in the US, so otherwise neutral. Ks0stm (T•C•G•E) 17:48, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This was posted last year.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:13, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

    • The results of the Daytona 500 was posted several times before, including last year. NASCAR is the biggest level of stock car racing, the most popular auto racing circuit in the United States, with the number of fans beating every sport but American Football. The main reason it's not as international as Formula One is because of their schedule doesn't give it enough time to travel to different counties (they had races in Japan before though). I would Support if we posted last year championship race and result, which was considered by many auto racing observers to be the best ever? I remembered they posted in previous years but I can't remember if they did last year. Way more popular than Indy Car here. If Danica Patrick won or finished in the top 10 it would have been a no-brainier addition for many of the commentators here. Even then Patrick participating in the race was global news [3] and a significant milestone in women sports. Secret account 04:13, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I don't see the significance in this one. Mtking (edits) 05:09, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Right from the article: "The Daytona 500 is regarded as the most important and prestigious race on the NASCAR calendar, carrying by far the largest purse". Should probably be on ITN/R. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 12:46, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not from the South, don't care for NASCAR so much, but in case people don't bother to read the article, it was postponed to the next day for the first time (by rain), then a racer crashed into a jet dryer (they dry the track with jet engine exhaust) which burst into flames and delayed the race so much it didn't end until 1 am, thus making this a little more than your garden-variety Daytona 500. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:23, 2 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 27

February 27, 2012 (2012-02-27) (Monday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sport

[Reposted] Pritzker Architecture Prize

Articles: Pritzker Architecture Prize (talk · history · tag) and Wang Shu (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Chinese architect Wang Shu wins this year's Pritzker Architecture Prize (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times, CBC, Der Spiegel, Architectural Record
Credits:

Both articles updated
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Most notable prize in architecture, widely reported globally, ITNR. --ELEKHHT 01:28, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose until an article has a suitable update. I don't think the page of the prize itself will work (all the winners are listed in a chart, so an update would not meet ITN guidelines); and the architect's article needs expansion. SpencerT♦C 01:36, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
itnr DOESNT need support/oppose. Further, oscar was prematurely posed.Lihaas (talk) 03:27, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of the award article, we should highlight the laureate's one. At the moment, it's a bit short indeed. Regarding the oscars, that was another case. There was a long article with lots of prose and updated table of laureates so the posting was in no way premature. --Tone 08:00, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the suggestions, I changed the blurb accordingly. Both articles have been further improved since. --ELEKHHT 20:20, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nominator. The Pritzker Prize is often considered as the greatest and most prestigious award in architecture. It is also listed as ITN/R. Low quality of the article is only a timely problem that should not thwart the news to be posted on the basis of notability.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:35, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per ITN/R. The updates say all they can say. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 21:23, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support pretty much per 76.18.43.253. The article is sufficient, the update is sufficient (not sure what else could be said, and if anyone thinks something specific more should be added, then add it!), and it's an ITNR item. --Jayron32 00:05, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Temporarily removed. A 2-sentence update to the article is insufficient by even the most minimal of ITN standards, regardless of whether or not the item is ITNR. Feel free to restore once the article has been updated more. SpencerT♦C 03:11, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Why? First of all the whole article is new, is itself an update, as through this prize Wang Shu's international notability is clearly established. But a prize is a prize, I don't think an encyclopaedic article needs to go into details of who was the jury or whatever. Of relevance is Wang Shu's architecture, not the circumstances of the prize. Previous ITNs on the Pritzker Prize have been similar. What piece of essential information do you miss? --ELEKHHT 03:28, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(Costa) MS Allegra

Article: MS Allegra (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Costa Crociere MS Allegra is adrift off the Seychelles following an engine room fire. (Post)
News source(s): [4] [5] [6]
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: The article needs work, but right now there isn't a lot of info. Fire, adrift, no one hurt, tugs en route. Tagged it minority re: Technology. Note this is similar to the incident on Carnival Splendor a year and a half ago, albeit on a smaller, older ship. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 00:17, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

oh dear me. nothing seems to be going right for them at the moment. If there is mention of the incidents with the concordi and possible wider investigations (shutting them off the seas) then id support.Lihaas (talk) 03:31, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Chardon High School shooting

Article: Chardon High School shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Three die in a shooting at Chardon High School in Chardon, Ohio. (Post)
News source(s): [7][8]
Credits:

 – Muboshgu (talk) 22:27, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not the most fatal shooting in history, but a school shooting receiving lots of coverage nonetheless. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:30, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Please don't waste everyone's time nominating it for deletion. The article would certainly be kept and much editor time will be wasted arguing it. That said, I don't feel it is significant enough for ITN. --ThaddeusB (talk) 23:33, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Although tragic, the shooting is not of international historical significance. -- Luke (Talk) 23:56, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose No international historical significance; what would be significant is if politicians in the US grow a collective backbone and realised that in a civilised society citizens have no need own guns and that this sort of crime could be avoided by banning general gun ownership. Mtking (edits) 07:58, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Get off your soapbox, and go and live there for a while. 58.7.251.19 (talk) 13:09, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
LOL, yeah, countries with highly restrictive gun laws never have school shooting. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 12:50, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Burlington derailment

Article: Burlington derailment (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Three crew members are killed and several passengers injured in the derailment of a VIA train in the Burlington, Canada. (Post)
News source(s): National Post
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This is one of the most significant train accidents in recent Canadian history in terms of deaths and injuries. --Natural RX 20:39, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So what's the threshold for a rail related incident to be included on ITN? --76.18.43.253 (talk) 23:47, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Of course there is no official or unofficial level of death/destruction needed to make ITN. Sometimes, an event that results in one death can be highly significant, sometimes an event with many deaths can be insignificant. For a disaster whose interest is based primarily on human deaths, I personally look for 20+. --ThaddeusB (talk) 23:54, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You're right. It's all qualitative, but this feels more like a tragic traffic accident, compared to the one in Argentina which was more like a disaster. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 00:19, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Ready?] Former Ukrainian minister Yuriy Lutsenko sentenced

Article: Yuriy Lutsenko (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Ukrainian interior minister Yuriy Lutsenko has been sentenced to fours year in jail for embezzlement and abuse of office. (Post)
News source(s): (Reuters per Kyiv Post)
Credits:

Article updated

 — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:03, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The update is decent, it's a high-profile politician, tentative support. --Tone 19:27, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Article looks good, and it's one of those that if we put on the front page, we'll actually be meeting our remit of directing people to updated articles that reflect news. Let's shy away from the "not enough news coverage" angle here for once, it's significant and we can afford to put it up, so let's do so. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 23:19, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mansur al-Hadi takes over as Yemeni President

Articles: Abd Rabbuh Mansur Al-Hadi (talk · history · tag) and President of Yemen (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Abd Rabbuh Mansur Al-Hadi is officially sworn in as President of Yemen. (Post)
News source(s): (BBC)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Change of head of state ----Kitch (Talk : Contrib) 17:39, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Did not knew that the "shape of the article" was a criteria for ITN before I voted (never voted for an ITN before), sorry for that... It is indeed now in a too bad of a shape to post it on the mainpage of Wikipedia via ITN... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:45, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikileaks' latest disclosure

Article: 2012 Stratfor email leak (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ WikiLeaks begins disclosing what it claims are 5 million e-mails taken from the private intelligence company Stratfor. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, Reuters, Huff Post, The Guardian, The Age
Article updated

 --BorgQueen (talk) 09:38, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. Nothing particularly dramatic about Wikileaks releasing stuff, especially when the target is a company nobody knows or cares about. If the leak results in something major happening, revisit then. Resolute 18:22, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • According to our article: Stratfor has been cited by media such as CNN, Bloomberg, the Associated Press, Reuters, The New York Times and the BBC as an authority on strategic and tactical intelligence issues.[3] Barron's once referred to it as "The Shadow CIA".[4] Your claim that it is "a company nobody knows or cares about" is simply untrue. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:26, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, but the media, at least in the US, has been strangely silent... --76.18.43.253 (talk) 00:22, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's strange because as already mentioned, it appears on CNN, and certainly has global coverage. --ELEKHHT 10:52, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I created an article here on the leak. If this happens to go through, then you'll probably want to link to that instead. SilverserenC 07:11, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - whether people know or care about the company aside, Resolute is pretty much correct. This is very interesting, but many people were anticipating another major, significant leak, and the fact that it just turned out to be Stratfor emails was an anticlimactic disappointment. If the leak results in something significant, we should by all means post it, but I don't think this release itself is worth posting. Swarm X 19:22, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per doktorb mostly, nothing of this magnitude happened so far in this area. Certainly more notable than a train crash - currently posted. I am fully for high standards, but also for consistency. Maybe ITN should broaden its view and not only count those immediately affected by an event but all affected, on long term. --ELEKHHT 10:52, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 26

February 26, 2012 (2012-02-26) (Sunday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters

Law and crime

Politics and elections

FARC gives up kidnapping

Article: Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Colombian guerilla organisation FARC announces that it has given up its campaign of kidnapping for ransom, which began in the 1970s. (Post)
News source(s): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17173832
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: If the nom gets support, I will try to deal with the orange tag on the bolded article. Note that our coverage of this topic appears quite poor at present. --FormerIP (talk) 18:28, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article isn't yet updated, but it would be the section headed "kidnappings". --FormerIP (talk) 19:41, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And it clearly states "article needs updating". Sorry. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 19:59, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - If some actor "promised" to give up drinking, would we post it on ITN? Factions, parties and political individuals make promises all the time. It doesn't get to ITN. Why treat these guys different. If they released a bunch of kidnapped victims or turned in their guns, that would go on ITN. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 19:20, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: Don't really believe them tbh... But have they announced what's to happen with their current hostages? If they release them, it would be something worth posting. Nightw 12:32, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted]84th Academy Awards

Article: 84th Academy Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Artist wins best picture at the 84th Academy Awards. (Post)
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: ITN/R and seems to be a foregone conclusion, but since it starts tonight I figured I would get the template posted --76.18.43.253 (talk) 16:53, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do we usually bold the film or the event? --76.18.43.253 (talk) 19:38, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. --Tone 07:46, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A few bolded parts of the table and a lukewarm paragraph in the lead? That's a poor excuse for an update. -- tariqabjotu 09:18, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's what all Academy Award articles have been doktorb wordsdeeds 10:08, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OTHERCRAPEXISST...it needs a prose updae. otherwise we can pos ANYTHIGN thats ITNR (a la Yemen below)Lihaas (talk) 14:58, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
WP:SOFIXIT. If you find that there is information about the 84th Academy Awards that is missing from the article, no one here will stop you from adding it. Demanding that others do work you could easily do seems silly. For the record, I find the article sufficient, but if you do not, there is no one here trying to stop you from making it sufficient. --Jayron32 18:05, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW this had much more prose than BAFTA or BIFF both of which got speedy posted without contest. I just don't understand how the Dakar Rally, which is ITN/R, got nixed on the grounds that it was almost all results tables, and later everyone fawns CMD getting the "golden bear" at BIFF and posts in less time than it takes to say "Berlin International Film Festival". --76.18.43.253 (talk) 18:03, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's "Golden Bear" not "golden bear". Lugnuts (talk) 09:46, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 25

February 25, 2012 (2012-02-25) (Saturday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters

Law and crime

Politics

Science

Bin Ladin compound demolished

Article: Osama bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Pakistani authorities start demolition of Osama bin Laden's former compound in Abbottabad. (Post)
News source(s): (AP via Google)
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Don't have much time to look at this but given the extraordinary notability of bin Ladin's death this seems to be a worthy nomination to me. Reminds me of Boris Yeltsin demolishing the site where Nicholas II was shot in the Soviet period. An update is needed but it seems feasible in the scope of the article.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:50, 26 February 2012 (UTC) --Johnsemlak (talk) 05:50, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

far from ntable an dbarely in the news widely. its also an issue a year ago, not today. (Although on the anniverary it may be notable)Lihaas (talk) 06:22, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You're free to differ in opinion on its notability but there's front page coverage at the BBC, New York Times, Al Jazeera, and Xinhua. Seems to be wide coverage to me.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:52, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, very minor part of the wrapping up of a major story: akin to announcing the release of a prisoner whose conviction was notable, or completion of the execution of the will of a person whose death was ITNworthy. Kevin McE (talk) 09:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fire at Comandante Ferraz Brazilian Antarctic Base with two people dying

Article: Comandante Ferraz Brazilian Antarctic Base (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A fire forces the evacuation of the Comandante Ferraz Brazilian Antarctic Base with two people killed. (Post)
News source(s): (AFP via Google) (BBC)
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: People died and structures destroyed in Antartica must be here--Feroang (talk) 04:31, 26 February 2012 (UTC) --Feroang (talk) 04:31, 26 February 2012 (UTC)--[reply]

Marked ready as a quality sourced update and length. I wouldnt support it personally, though it could be a minority topic (when do we feature science in Antarctica?)Lihaas (talk) 05:27, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Sad, but it is an intrinsically dangerous place, those who died were not individually notable, two is not an extreme death toll, research base has not given rise to high profile discoveries, low profile in news media (6th in World news on BBC, no entry for Comandante Ferraz on Lemonde.fr, not in top 11 world stories on elmundo.es) Kevin McE (talk) 10:13, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's because very few people live there, so not much news emerges. It does not make minor events more noteworthy. At is peak, the population of Antarctica is about 1% of that of the Cape Verde Islands: have we had 100 times as many stories from there? Kevin McE (talk) 16:55, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, but I'm not sure how that's relevant, except to suggest that population is not directly proportional to the number of stories from a region nominated on ITN. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 17:02, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The relevance is that if it is not surprising that a place has few stories, it is not a reason to promote stories. There are 100 times as many human reasons to have a story from Cape Verde, but we don't lower our threshold to include that place either. Kevin McE (talk) 17:46, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
very few people live in the International Space Station but if this is destroyed, that is a News too. Right now we have 3 news from America and 3 more from Europe, 1 from Antartica not gonna hurt.--Feroang (talk) 18:56, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. It wasn't the only base in the antartica. Agree with Kevin, it wasn't that notable a base before.--Johnsemlak (talk) 00:21, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Who on earth has marked this 'ready'? It is a tragic accident but nonetheless wholly inappropriate for the front page. Is it highly notable? Unusual? Work placed deaths happen all over the world, that it happened in a remote location is just a curious additional extra. I can't understand why a nomination with oppose votes is marked 'ready'. doktorb wordsdeeds 15:12, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Almost every posted nom has at least one oppose. I can't imagine how ITN would function if one oppose disqualified an item for a [Ready] tag, and thus prevented it's posting. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 17:53, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I can't understand the hate on for this item. We post similar items all the time: mine collapses, fly ash spills, oil rig fires, hell if the toilets don't flush on the ISS it gets front page coverage. Too bad, I really thought this would be an easy pass. 2 for, 2 against, minority topic (science) get Ready tag IMO (no I didn't set it, but I think it deserves it). --76.18.43.253 (talk) 17:59, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The habits of the editor who put on the ready tag on this have been raised at WT:ITN. The practice of these tags was introduced with no discussion at WT:ITN, and there is no clear guideline about when it should be used. We have a template that allows indication of whether the article has been updated, so I can't see what purpose it serves. But it was never agreed that it is a way of someone trying to close the discussion. I would ask the unregistered editor to recount: I see 4 opposes. Kevin McE (talk) 18:17, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
4 now, 3 when you posted your reply. I don't care much about the ready tag editor. From the guidelines above "Items can also be marked as [Ready] when they are ready to be posted, but the posting admin should always judge the consensus to post themselves. If you find an entry that you don't feel is ready to post is marked [Ready] you should remove the header. A [Ready] tag should not be added by the nominator of the item." Seems pretty clear to me. *shrugs* --76.18.43.253 (talk) 18:41, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, doesn't seem to me to be have lasting impact. Interesting things happen in Antarctica all the time; boreholes to buried lakes, country-sized ice shelves breaking loose, and so forth, and we run those. Speciate (talk) 18:22, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Voter suppression in the 2011 Canadian federal election

Article: Canadian federal election, 2011 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Elections Canada investigates evidence of voter suppression tactics against Liberal Party supporters in the 2011 Canadian federal election. (Post)
News source(s): The Gazette
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This is very significant due to the possible impacts it had in the results of the federal election, including whether some candidates won or lost. --Natural RX 00:24, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I have changed the blurb accordingly, even though it was a headline from earlier, but I never saw it in the current events. --Natural RX 00:40, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I will also add to my comments that this is notable because the phone calls that were made are in violation of the Canada Elections Act. --Natural RX 00:42, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The article states there is actual evidence of voter suppression, not just a claim. --Natural RX 00:48, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Irrelevant until an official body (like a court) has stated such evidence has merit. --Golbez (talk) 02:03, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[(Re)posted] 2012 Quran burning

Article: 2012 Afghanistan Quran burning protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 23 people are killed in Afghanistan after United States troops at Bagram Airfield burn copies of the Quran. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Very notable, likely to influence the situation in Afghanistan negatively.Oleg-ch (talk) 20:01, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Marking ready pending support. Good article and updated (although one needs to note the withdrawal of ALL ISAF advisors as well the investigation which does not involve Afghans and the section of the interior ministry being used purely by ISAF personnel())Lihaas (talk) 00:53, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but query the proposed blurb. It makes it sound like the Quran-burning directly caused the 23 deaths. Like they were standing too close or something. Maybe 23 people are killed during protests following the burning of Qurans by US forces in Afghanistan. --FormerIP (talk) 01:01, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Very notable. Axe the "Muslim holy book" and just include quran. The phrase just makes the blurb redundant. Reword the blurb to be more neutral, infers the US literally set fire to the quram but from what I read it seems the burning was unintentional. Blurb implies guilt and malice. WikifanBe nice 01:26, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think "unintentional" is correct. It's not like they just fell on the fire. Could perhaps use the word "incinerated" so as not to confuse with Quran burning as we know it. --FormerIP (talk) 01:39, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, with the provisions given by Wikifan. This number of deaths would be ITN-worthy if part of an ordinary bomb blast; the religious uprising and international crisis hooks makes it triply notable. Shrigley (talk) 01:38, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question FormerIP raises a good point. Was this a Florida style book burnin' or were these copies destroyed using a procedure routinely employed for other material at the base? If the latter, incineration is correct, if the former, keep the burning. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 02:06, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
AFAICT, the exact circumstances of the burning are unclear, but reports have used the word "incinerator". On the other hand, the burning seems to have been discovered because Afghans happened upon the charred remains. I don't see how that fits. Maybe we'll have to wait for Wikileaks. --FormerIP (talk) 02:14, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support definitely ITN worthy. incorporate wikifan's suggestion.--Wikireader41 (talk) 03:38, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It looks like protests are spreading to other parts of Afghanistan. The German and British government pulled their civilian employees out of Afghanistan. There is a lot of news coverage of the protests. -- Luke (Talk) 03:40, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The issue isn't one word. The problem is "set fire." It is very inflammatory. Incinerate is rather hyperbolic and I cannot seem to find the word used in a source. FWIW, most reliable sources have yet to assign guilt, rather the focus is mostly on the 20+ people killed in the ensuing protests. Better phrasing would be, "x people are killed in protests after the burning of Qurans at a US military base." WikifanBe nice 03:42, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Set fire" is indeed inflammatory. --FormerIP (talk) 13:11, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I asked the adding user why he did so but he hasnt yet replied. Ive also reworded a lot of stuff there so if theres no reason we can remove it tomorrow.Lihaas (talk) 15:20, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"were" burned though...the ssue is the protests not the burning and that is a result of the burning.Lihaas (talk) 01:37, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

new Yemeni prez

Articles: Yemeni presidential election, 2012 (talk · history · tag) and Abd-Rabbu Mansour Hadi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Abd-Rabbu Mansour Hadi is sworn in as the new President of Yemen following an election. (Post)
Credits:

Both articles need updating
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Other nom may have gone stale, this is curren t(today) Lihaas (talk) 03:13, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not while the article is as it is: the opening sentence describes him as the vice president: oppose any blurb that suggests that there was a meaningful democratic exercise. Kevin McE (talk) 09:35, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Updated, just needs source (i cant find the numbers of his win). Also there is no suggesting in the blurb saying it is a "meaningful democratic excericise" or not. standard bklurb per all these things.Lihaas (talk) 10:20, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not yet article needs a copy edit. The fragment "al-Hadi voted at about noon." is un-sourced. There are no sourced in the boycott or violence sections. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 12:36, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some comments: firstly the blurb should say 'an uncontested election'. The election article is very poor and cannot be bold-linked in that state. Al-Hadi's article is in a slightly better shape, but is still uncomfortably short. I have no objection to posting this, but one or both articles need some major work first. Modest Genius talk 18:27, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
ITNR already sas subject to an update. The current prose is from tv, so needs an online source.
There is also nothing and no precdent to mention "uncontested" users can read that on the page. we dont need to push a [pov. it doesnt even say he WON an election, just says afeter being elected.Lihaas (talk) 00:48, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there's a great deal of POV in simply saying "Hadi wins an uncontested election". I support mentioning that.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:41, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 24

February 24, 2012 (2012-02-24) (Friday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics

[Withdrawn] Prince Friso of Orange-Nassau

Withdrawn by nominator

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Prince Friso of Orange-Nassau (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Dutch doctors stats that Prince Friso of Orange-Nassau who was buried under an avalanche may never regian consciousness after suffered massive brain damage due to oxygen shortage. (Post)
News source(s): NU
Article updated
Nom - Dutch prince, whos in line to British throne and the Commonwealth realms, son of Beatrix of the Netherlands.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 16:18, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Annan named UN-Arab special envoy

Article: Kofi Annan (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United Nations and the Arab League have appointed Kofi Annan as a joint special envoy to mediate in the ongoing Syrian conflict. (Post)
News source(s): Al-Jazeera, NY Times
Article needs updating

Garry Conille resigns as PM of Haiti

Article: Garry Conille (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Garry Conille resigns as Prime Minister of Haiti after four months in office, citing a loss of confidence from other ministe (Post)
News source(s): Archibold, Randal C. (February 26, 2012). "Haitian Premier Says Loss Of Support Led Him to Quit". The New York Times. p. A10.
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Resignation of a world leader. --Rrius (talk) 07:05, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

support notable enogh for me. Also less represented part of the world. Reasons: added instability in a powder keg...ogoes along with other factos that create uncertainity.Lihaas (talk) 15:22, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Significant sourced update.Lihaas (talk) 15:26, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 23

February 23, 2012 (2012-02-23) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime

Politics

Princess Estelle of Sweden

Nominator's comments: The birth of a second in line to the throne of any country seems notable to me, also there hasn't been a new blurb for a long time. --80.220.67.189 (talk) 12:47, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

obvious oppose, if ever there as one" please, its not even lining the throne.Lihaas (talk) 13:30, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 22

February 22, 2012 (2012-02-22) (Wednesday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics

[Posted] 2012 Buenos Aires train crash

Article: 2012 Buenos Aires train crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A train crash in Buenos Aires, Argentina results in at least 49 deaths and injuries to 676 people. (Post)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: 550 people are wounded in Argentina after a train accident. The number of the deaths in unknown yet. Probably 40+. Please improve the article. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 16:16, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support. Very high number of killed and injured, and the accident happened in the capital city of Argentina. Train disasters are not all that common in developed countries. This will probably have implications for rail security in Argentina, and maybe in other countries as well. Nanobear (talk) 16:40, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Markign ready as substantial update/. though the title need a change. Cant it go on the station page instead ofthese needless recentism pages?Lihaas (talk) 00:32, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hundreds killed in Homs; Colvin, Ochlik, too

Article: February 2012 bombardment of Homs (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Syria, over an hundred civilians are killed during the February 2012 bombardment of Homs, including reporters Marie Colvin, Rémi Ochlik. (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph, Guardian, BBC, NY Times, CNN

*Support Some of the most dedicated, respected and renowned journalists in their fields. Beyond notable. doktorb wordsdeeds 11:47, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

oppose NYT chap died last week without mention. Judges assassinated without mention. Nothing intricnsically notable here. Only european notability (if that). Although i would definately support a sticky for syria. (and libya's post-war conflicts)Lihaas (talk) 12:20, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
NYT reporter Anthony Shadid died of allergic reaction to horses, not shelling in Horms. That's a slight difference in my books. --bender235 (talk) 12:45, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
no mention of the first western (french) reporter of france 2 killed in early jan. Same violent death as this in my bookLihaas (talk) 12:55, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST is not usually a valid complaint. --Golbez (talk) 14:38, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Its cited as a precedent above...not to mention the OR reasoning listed above tooLihaas (talk) 22:24, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Doktorbuk. Edit: More than happy to explain further. Both were notable, award-winning journalists; Ochlik's photography was featured in numerous prominent works internationally and just this month he was awarded 1st place in the general news category of the World Press Photo of the Year contest (one of the most prestigious in the world). Colvin had won two British Press Awards. The deaths drew reactions from Rupert Murdoch, Nicolas Sarkozy, David Cameron, Ed Miliband, etc. Swarm X 14:45, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Care to explain, since we dont vote count, where this 'ORIGINAL RESEARCH "dedicated, respected and renowned " comes from? Reason indicated since.Lihaas (talk) 14:10, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Her eyepatch. --Golbez (talk) 14:38, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure how this is pointy an arguement to illustrate anthing. Nothing is "Wikipedia:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point" especially since the same deceptive reasoning is cited as a reason for support below it needs to be queried how that true
But an "eyepatch" doesnt indicate "dedicated, respected and renowned" in any field. Just the same as a fractured arm doesnt.Lihaas (talk) 22:26, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
She had an eyepatch. Your argument is invalid. Swarm X 04:36, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose original blurb. This reeks of double standards. Two Westerners get killed and suddenly we post this, after weeks of dozens of Syrians per day being killed whilst we did nothing? Neither journalist seems to have been particularly notable or well known beyond their field. The only reason we're even considering this is because they're from the West. Modest Genius talk 16:19, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I would put it to you that that's a POINTy oppose. I can understand Lihaas' oppose on grounds we didn't post Shadid's death or the death of the first French journalist. But yours seems to be based on the premise that 'if we don't post Arabs dying, we can't post Westerners dying', and that to me is trying to make a point and being disruptive to ITN by making it. For what it's worth, Colvin was a veteran foreign correspondent. Surely you don't expect journalists to be known "beyond their field". Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 16:24, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, Modest Genius, but I think you're misjudged on this one. Yes, ordinary citizens are killed every day. That's a tragedy we mark in our own ways within and beyond Wikipedia. But here we have two....symbols, if you like, of the Syrian violence which transcend the domestic and represent the world-wide. There is always support for nominations which involve the killing of civilians by Syrian forces and indeed there has been at least one such story posted on ITN this year. That these journalists happen to be from the West is a detail parallel to, but separate from, the wider context. doktorb wordsdeeds 16:44, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If someone nominated a story about civilians dying in Homs I would support it. I just don't think that two Western journalists should take precedent over hundreds of Syrian civilians. You're welcome to disagree with me if you like, but I'm not being deliberately WP:POINTy. Modest Genius talk 19:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to say that ITN needed two white dudes to die before the carnage in Syria gets in but MG beat me to it. That's not a straightforward oppose though, as ITN needed something from Syria to be posted, since, as IP 78 said, ITN has had blow-by-blow coverage in the Greece situation. –HTD 16:22, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The question is whether going with this particular angle is POV. My conclusion is that it is not. Russia and China consider Syria to be an internal situation which is not the wider world's business. In that context the death of outside journalists is significant, albeit they may report the story in very different ways to the West. I would point out that RT are running with the story [9]. As for the "Euro-centric" claim, Colvin was American. —WFC— 17:20, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per ModestGenius. I know the Western media is putting this into their headlines. But I believe Wikipedia should try to be better. Thousands have been killed in Syria recently, likely including many Syrian journalists. In this light, it would be somewhat arrogant of us to post the deaths of two Western journalist. (Note that I'm not accusing the editors who supported this of anything. I hope I can disagree without offending anyone.) Nanobear (talk) 17:24, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I assume you consider RT to be part of the "Western media". —WFC— 17:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is not about "some Westerners" dying in Homs, it is about two notable journalists dying there. If, god forbid, Razan Zaitouneh would've died in Homs, it would be ITN too. --bender235 (talk) 18:04, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Name the last time a journalist of this prominence was killed in conflict zone! Wait, let me help, were it Hetherington and Hondros? --bender235 (talk) 20:06, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose due to lack of update. The bold article does not mention their deaths, and their personal articles only mention that they died in Homs. Secondly, they were killed in a war zone by indiscriminate shelling. Certainly tragic, but not ITN. I could support if they'd been deliberately arrested and executed by the regime for reporting on the activity in Homs. To Modest Genius, we're over due for a Syria article, find an incident, do a page, and nominate it. I'll support it, even without an EU bailout or some bitchy students. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 19:26, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • support I think it's ridiculous to oppose because we haven't been updating with civilian causalities. It's a weak point of ITN; simmering conflicts with no particular new news are usually not featured. This came up with the 2011 Japan earthquake, the Occupy protests, and maybe even the Libyan civil war. A week or so ago it was proposed that we update on the Homs bombardment but it was opposed due to nothing new coming out of it. This is a major story that's being reported by the media and is definitely ITN worthy due to the Libya photographers present precedent. hbdragon88 (talk) 19:52, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
ALT2: "Over 500 people are killed in the bombardment of Homs, Syria, including foreign journalists Marie Colvin and Rémi Ochlik"
I'm not against that per se, but the news story isn't really "500 people are killed" because that implies it happened all at once, which is not the case. How about:
ALT3: "The death toll to date exceeds 500 as continuing conflict in Syria kills foreign journalists Marie Colvin and Rémi Ochlik"
--ThaddeusB (talk) 21:41, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There's an unhealthy perspective on display here that a couple of white, Christian, English speaking westerner deaths are somehow more important than the hundreds of Syrians deaths routinely occurring in these troubles. HiLo48 (talk) 21:25, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And then there's this sickening stupidity of people discussing here, not realising that this is about the death of an award-winning, world-renowned journalist, regardless of her nationality, race or whatever. --bender235 (talk) 21:30, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And how much do you know (or even care) about the talents of all those dead Syrians? HiLo48 (talk) 21:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is not about some young peoples' talent. This is about a clearly notable person dying under extraordinary circumstances (see ITN death criteria).
Also, if I had to decide, Homs (and Syria in general) would have been ITN more often. As a matter of fact, I personally nominated and/or supported this multiple times in recent months (Nov 12, Nov 16, Dec 19, Jan 28, Feb 8). But just because we decided against posting this back then doesn't mean we have to ignore it this time. --bender235 (talk) 21:44, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
People have their reasons and you dont need to make pov subjective judgement vcalls on whats "sickeoning"Lihaas (talk) 01:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you (HiLo) should not make assumptions about people's motives. As it turns out some/most of us want to get a story about the Syrian conflict on the mainpage and this presents the opportunity to do so. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:41, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A sticky would do and would get near unanimous support at the moment as its top of th enews nearly everyday.Lihaas (talk) 01:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. What's happening in Homs is ITN-worthy when an appropriate story can be identified. But, because we generally avoid posting blow-by-blow, I think it would demonstrate poor judgement if we were to decide that the appropriate story is about the deaths of two of our "own", tragic though they are. --FormerIP (talk) 21:39, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And for the millionth time, this is not about "one of our own" dying. Those weren't some unknown, irrelevant European tourists. Colvin was a world-renowned journalist, Olchik an award-winning photographer. That's what makes them notable. --bender235 (talk) 21:47, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Their notability is not in issue. But we don't post people's deaths just because they are notable. --FormerIP (talk) 21:50, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
But we do post people's death if they were significant to their field (which, given the media response, even you should be able to recognize) and died unexpectedly or tragically (clearly the case). --bender235 (talk) 01:17, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is far more fluid in its enforcement and is generally on a case-bycase basisLihaas (talk) 01:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The Syrian uprising is notable and the ongoing bombardment is worthy of return to ITN even after only a few weeks since the last appearance. If the deaths of high-profile foreign correspondents is the hook we use for putting the story back up, then I'm okay with that, but the focus should still be on the larger violence and thousands of dead. Dragons flight (talk) 22:03, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose reporters in conflict zone take this risk willingly. We dont post soldiers dying in war now do we? I'm sorry but this nom makes lives of Syrian civilians seem utterly useless. -- Ashish-g55 23:21, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If they were like Victoria Cross recipients, or otherwise notable (like being a NFL player), yes, we certainly would post soldiers dying in war. --bender235 (talk) 00:02, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Surprised at the opposition to this. Notable individuals in a notable circumstance. The opposes are mainly based on an emotive perspective and incorrect comparison with the appalling ongoing civilian death toll. The 2 events are separate, hard though it might be for some editors to accept it. Leaky Caldron 23:31, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well emotion and the lack of a viable update for me... --76.18.43.253 (talk) 23:54, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ask them if they think it's the most significant thing to have happened to them this week. --FormerIP (talk) 00:57, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - notable individuals in a notable circumstance sounds right. notable because of their role kind of thing as much as anything -it doesnt 'make lives of Syrians seem utterly useless' imo - just a stupid non sequitur that. Sayerslle (talk) 00:11, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: as nominator, I changed the blurb, now focussing on the civilian casualties first. I wonder if this results in another POV rant, since there is no official source for the number of casualties. --bender235 (talk) 01:33, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Slight reword for whats more certain than the vague. SHould be much more likely to be supported now.Lihaas (talk) 01:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support the new blurb. Modest Genius talk 12:56, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think Colvin and Olchik are notable enough to satisfy the ITN death criteria on their own, and would oppose posting their deaths if hey had been killed in, say, Pakistan, Somalia or Georgia. Modest Genius talk 12:56, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Also, if Colvin and Olchik were really that notable, why did neither of them have articles until they were killed? Colvin Olchik Modest Genius talk 13:00, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Eh, I don't like that argument. We, for example, posted an ITN death story about the Mexican government official who was killed in a helicopter (the name escapes me right now, but I think he was around 45 years old). hbdragon88 (talk) 23:56, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So is there any interest in posting this blurb? The majority of the oppose !votes would appear to be addressed by emphasising the whole event, not just the journalists. Modest Genius talk 12:22, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, you basically killed the discussion with that "Western POV" gibberish. Right now, it seems, the consensus is: the Syrian conflict is ITN worthy, but if we'd post it right now it would make us look Eurocentrist, so we better don't. --bender235 (talk) 13:44, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
[Posted] Sticky?

There seems to be a lot of support for a sticky on Syria. I was tempted to just do it, but put it in the sandbox instead. Let me know what you think. --ThaddeusB (talk) 04:22, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

more worthwhile than the above though im neutral. Though i would add libya, abahrain and posibly yemen. (Arab Spring?)Lihaas (talk) 08:47, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • SupportI would had preferred if we post a story instead, because ITN is ignoring hundred of deaths daily in Syria for a much less significant events, and found this a chance to post a news about it, but this sounds good as well --aad_Dira (talk) 09:29, 23 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
  • Neutral I removed my support from the nomination above because of the amended heading and blurb. A sticky would be a solution of sorts, but Wikipedia is not a news ticker, we're supposed to be as neutral as we can be, and I'm worried that the reaction to the (perfectly fine) nomination above is skewing our neutrality doktorb wordsdeeds 09:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I've been advocating a sticky for over a month. Considering the relatively uneventful past few weeks, it doesn't seem like a sticky would undermine ITN status quo ATM. Probably smart to post an article for the 50+ killed in Iraq this morning. Don't believe libya/bahrain/yemen into the mix. Syria is basically the center of drama as far as the international community is concerned. WikifanBe nice 10:05, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support " Two Westerners get killed and suddenly we post this, after weeks of dozens of Syrians per day being killed whilst we did nothing." The real double standard is when mass killings occur in Europe/America, ITN proposals are typically expedited straight to the front page without serious opposition. On the other hand, when hundreds of civilians are killed in an Arab country, the community is largely silent or indifferent. The fact that two mainstream journalists were killed is unfortunate. But remember editors rarely respond in great numbers unless some American/European is killed in the crossfire. WikifanBe nice 10:16, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question What would be the criteria for removing the sticky later? The end of violence in Syria? It's been going on for a year already, what if it goes on for another? Can we really leave "conflict in Syria" stuck to the bottom ITN for a year? Then what about other conflicts? Can we give every festering conflict a sticky? I don't mean to downplay the Syrian conflict, but I think as a practical matter, this needs to be addressed. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 12:24, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
a nm thereof ot remove per consensusLihaas (talk) 16:04, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
theres gorowing conflict in Hama an d Damascus tooLihaas (talk) 19:58, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Khader Adnan hunger strike

Article: Khader Adnan (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Khader Adnan ends his 66 day hunger strike in protest against his administrative detention in Israel. (Post)
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: he longest hunger strike in Palestinian history (and longer than Sands). --Lihaas (talk) 05:06, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 21

February 21, 2012 (2012-02-21) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Politics and elections

[Posted] 30,000+ year old plant regenerated

Article: Silene stenophylla (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Scientists report regenerating specimens of Silene stenophylla from seed tissue approximately 32,000 years old (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Greatly exceeds the previous record (2000 years) for oldest remains successful used to create a living plant specimen. It is being called a very significant accomplishment. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:31, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

the term "scientists" in the blurb is vague. Reports also indicates somethign not conclusive. If its conclusive we dint need the caveats. At most cite the journal the discovery was published in.
Marking ready dueto timer an dmore than sufficient updateLihaas (talk) 06:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. --Tone 10:01, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Can we change the title to concerns in lin ehere or at least ahve an explanation? Thx.Lihaas (talk) 00:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hun? --ThaddeusB (talk) 04:14, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"scientists report" is vague. Should take that out entirely. Suggests csomethign rumoured not definate and thats not ITNLihaas (talk) 08:49, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Quoting the article (as I did when you raised this concern on my talk page), "the accomplishment has not yet been independently verified, and previous claims of ancient regeneration have often not held up under scrutiny." —David Levy 08:58, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Greece Bailout

Article: No article specified
Blurb: ​ Euro zone finance ministers reach an agreement on a second Greek bailout. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

 --Johnsemlak (talk) 05:02, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We posted it last time, whatever article that was for can be used aain. Although i would wait till the transfer confirmation (unless the acceptance is the done deal an dno going bacl)Lihaas (talk) 08:07, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yemeni election

Article: Yemeni presidential election, 2012 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Abd-Rabbu Mansour Hadi is elected president of Yemen as the sole candidate. (Post)
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Election starts in a few hours, not sure exactly when result should be out. When it is the update should occur for posting. Lihaas (talk) 03:13, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Its ITNR, the article will be posted solely pending the quality of the article.Lihaas (talk) 12:24, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And unfortunately the article is a mess. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 22:00, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 20

February 20, 2012 (2012-02-20) (Monday)
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Single Atom transistor

Article: [[Moore's Law or Transistor ?]] ([[Talk:Moore's Law or Transistor ?|talk]] · [{{fullurl:Moore's Law or Transistor ?|action=history}} history] · [{{fullurl:Talk:Moore's Law or Transistor ?|action=edit&preload=Template:ITN_candidate/note&preloadtitle=In+the+news+nomination&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=%5B%5BMoore%27s+Law%5D%5D+or+%5B%5BTransistor%5D%5D+%3F}} tag])
Blurb: ​ Single Atom Transistor created (8 years earlier than predicted by Moore's Law) (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Nominator's comments: seems pretty significant, found it's been updated here Moore's_law#Major_enabling_factors_and_future_trends EdwardLane (talk) 16:47, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose as suggested. If scientific opinion is that the single atom transistor is highly notable of itself (and it sounds to me as though it might be), that could easily become a support, but merely beating a prediction is not ITNworthy. Kevin McE (talk) 17:57, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry that's why I changed the blurb to put the 'beating the prediction' in brackets - I think (though I know little to nothing about it) that the single atom transistor is significant in it's own right. EdwardLane (talk) 18:07, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I really want to support this, but it belongs in Transistor or in it's own article. Need to know how it was made, some theoretical and practical applications, etc. Right now it's a 1 line bullet point in moore's law. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 21:21, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose I considered nominating this, but decided against it on the basis of the NYT story which suggests it is in fact not the first such demonstration of single atom transistor, but rather rather just the first made with "normal" techniques. I would reconsider if a significant update of History of the transistor was undertaken explaining the significance of the advance. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:26, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Kevin. If it was a very notable scientific innovation, then it should be supported without mentioning the prediction that was beaten. The innovation itself is not so notable for now, and the information compiled in the blurb could be an interesting material for DYK.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:16, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 19

February 19, 2012 (2012-02-19) (Sunday)
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[Posted] Mexican prison fight

Article: Apodaca prison riot (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 44 people are killed when a riot breaks out in a Mexican prison. (Post)
News source(s): WSJ
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: "Mexico's deadliest prison riot" seems noteworthy to me, article needs some work --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:45, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Posting. Curiously, we have two prison incidents-related stories on ITN now. --Tone 08:51, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Amend blurb on German president, Joachim Gauck nominated

Article: Joachim Gauck (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Joachim Gauck (pictured) is nominated as the government and opposition's joint candidate in the 2012 presidential election, following Christian Wulff's resignation as President of Germany (Post)
News source(s): [11]

Could this change be considered ready? Josh Gorand (talk) 05:21, 20 February 2012 (UTC) [reply]

Oppose posting at this moment, although the development appears very straightforward, let's just wait until he's officially elected. --Tone 08:48, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
wait obviously per above WHEN appointed (if?). nominations are never ITN.Lihaas (talk) 15:21, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As long as this also will apply to Mitt Romney, that's fine with me. Josh Gorand (talk) 16:58, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Presidential nominations in the US are the result of a long and drawn out process, garner international attention, and the winner attains real power if elected to public office. The President of Germany is a figure head. That said, I oppose amending the blurb for the same reason as Tone. If he had been appointed interim president, it would be an obvious support. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 21:26, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The German President is not appointed, but elected by the Bundesversammlung (on 18 March). Since the parties nominating him have a vast majority (>80%) in it, he's virtually certain to be elected, so I'd consider him designated President. I'd therefore support updating the Wulff blurb, but without resetting the date (the choosing of a successor is a "natural" consequence of the resignation). --Roentgenium111 (talk) 14:54, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Golden Bear

Article: Caesar Must Die (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Paolo and Vittorio Taviani's Caesar Must Die wins the Golden Bear at the 62nd Berlin International Film Festival. (Post)
News source(s): [12]
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
  • The content from Caesar must die should be ported to the BIFF article, which would put in context. The article itself would have almost zero content if it wasn't for the award. Probably best to port the content, bold BIFF, post per ITN/R and AFD Caesar Must Die. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 22:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
AfD for CMD?! Please come back when you are relevant. Lugnuts (talk) 07:30, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
At the time of my post, it was nothing more than a blurb about winning the golden bear at BIFF. No cast, no reviews, no infobox, no nothing. I stand by my initial statement, and if it hadn't expanded (it has), I would have come back in about 6 months and nominated it for AFD, after porting the relevant bits to BIFF. Please don't use hateful words like "come back when you are relevant". --76.18.43.253 (talk) 13:21, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A film that has won the Golden Bear is obviously not going to have its article deleted. --FormerIP (talk) 22:53, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, although I agree that the bold link should not be to Caesar Must Die. --FormerIP (talk) 22:50, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull due to lack of update. The BIFF article has one paragraph of text; that is well short of our criteria. Link to the film article if that has a better update. Sorry, perhaps I missed some text waaay down in the article; it's still a disappointing article for the main page, and I don't think it meets the '3 well formed paragraphs' criteria.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:32, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
WP:SOFIXIT instead of complaining! Lugnuts (talk) 07:31, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It might help if Caesar Must Die was the central article chosen just as A Separation, Honey, etc. were in previous years. BTW, the 62nd Berlin International Film Festival doesn't look much different from the 61st Berlin International Film Festival which got the go-ahead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.111.184 (talk) 16:22, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Italian marines arrested over shooting Indian fishermen

Article: 2012 Indian Fishermen Killings (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Two Italian marines arrested for shooting two Indian fishermen. (Post)
News source(s): NDTV, BBC, Washington Post, Sydney Morning Herald, Khaleej Times
Article updated

Nominator's comments: (1)Notability: Major diplomatic flare-up as two serving Italian marines are arrested. Indians claim that innocent fishermen were shot while the marines say it was an attempted piracy incident. Blurb may need to be fixed to show that there are two versions to the incident.

(2) Update: Nice, fat, freshly created article (in my entirely subjective view) compared to the example of the minimum required update for a new article (Fuzhou derailment). Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 13:49, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support The article has a slight anti-Italy slant and some grammatical curiosities, but overall it's pretty good. Decent size, map, sources. Googling uncovered that the two Italian marines are now in custody in India, so this will probably linger for a few days. Finally, given that India has a substantial English speaking population, I think this will have some interest on enbaike.710302.xyz. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 14:39, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I wrote the first draft of the article - while I tried to keep it neutral, its possible that some inherent bias may have crept in. Please let me know if you want me to look at any particular language. [Edit: Have included more neutral sources and the position of the Italian foreign ministry.] Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 17:41, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I left a comment on the articles talk page, but by the time I got back there to leave it everything else seemed ok to me. Doesn't seem to be generating much interest here though. Too bad, nice job with the article anyway. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 03:14, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 05:43, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 18

February 18, 2012 (2012-02-18) (Saturday)
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Heavyweight title

Article: Vitali Klitschko (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In boxing, Vitali Klitschko defeats Dereck Chisora to retain his WBC heavyweight title. (Post)
News source(s): (USA Today), >2000 Google News hits
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Heavyweight title bouts happen only about once a year (per organization). I am not knowledgeable enough about boxing to know which organization(s) ae considered the most important and boxing is not covered in WP:ITNR, so so I'm listing it for discussion. If people desire, I would be willing to create a new article on the fight (most such fights have their own articles). --ThaddeusB (talk) 03:47, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I strongly agree that boxing deserves some sort of representation on ITN. I'm not fully conversant with the international framework for the sport either but from what I can make out, we have both amateur boxing (Olympics/Asian Games/CWG etc) and professional boxing (for prize money). In professional boxing, we have 4 bodies - WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO. It doesnt seem to have a unified international structure (like FIFA for football or the ICC for cricket). I suppose we can feature the top one or two organisations from amongst the four. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can help identify it. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 04:41, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A sport that cannot organise a proper world championship reeks of non-merit among their respective "championships". I doubt if you could ever gain agreement on ranking the bodies. These "championships" are an insult to those who have won real world championships in the past. HiLo48 (talk) 05:16, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support pending update The WBC is one of the four boxing Majors, and this is the Heavyweight Championship, which has historically always been the glamour weight class. However, the article needs a better update; it has only a single sentence. If the article is updated with a paragraph describing the fight, I'd fully support. --Jayron32 05:26, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Apart from the viewpoint that we should not be giving any promotion to an ill mannered thug like Chisora, or credibility to a sport that gives him a platform, there have been, by my calculation, 70 heavyweight "world championship" fights in the last 10 years. Given that a story remains typically on the main page for 5-6 days, that would mean that boxing occupies ITN space for 10% of the time. Major unification bouts (in any weight category), those that genuinely gain widespread attention of those beyond the fan base of the sport, might merit inclusion, but not routine defences, many of which (including this one) are widely perceived to be of little sporting merit (Haye-Harrison anyone?) Kevin McE (talk) 08:57, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well yes, I do agree some of the tricks Chisora's pulled and has pulled in this match and those before were very unsportsmanlike, and did not do anything good for the reputation of the sport or the title. But then again, someone being a "thug" is not really a real argument. --hydrox (talk) 13:59, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for the reasons given above. Boxing has become very hard to support for ITN because of its desire to split into little grouplets. I don't agree with Kevin's view about promoting "ill mannered thugs", but everything else is pretty much what I think. Boxing titles would be front page news....if boxing wasn't so..."boxing" doktorb wordsdeeds 09:32, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: A passing read of the comments above seem to suggest that ITN shouldn't post anything about boxing anytime, while we have such events as hurling and Gaelic football ("Top level of championship in multi-national sport") in ITN/R. Not only is that stupid, but reeks of bias. The problem is to select which boxing fights would make it to ITN. I had previously suggested on ITNR that any fights that include both boxers in the top 5 of any of the pound-for-pound lists by The Ring, BBC, ESPN, Yahoo Sports and probably Sports Illustrated (if they maintain such lists) could be considered (not necessarily ITN/R) for discussion. I'd reckon the Manny Pacquiao vs. Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fight will pwn the page view stats of events such as the massively-supported-in-ITN Heineken Cup. The boxers in the pound for pound lists usually don't meet each other very often: this is not tennis where the best players face each other in the final; some don't meet in their entire careers, due to size difference. Another good milestone is if a boxer wins his fifth world division title. There had only been five quintuple champions in history, so the sixth person to be included in the list should be at least considered for discussion in ITN, and not dismissed outright. –HTD 09:48, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Any chance you could rewrite that in plain English, without any insider jargon? I'm sorry, but to me it was largely incomprehensible. If the best "players" don't meet each other, there can be no real champion. HiLo48 (talk) 09:57, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There's no "real champion" in "all of boxing" since boxers have weigh around the same a day before the fight, hence there are chances where the best players would never meet. For example, a fight between Klitschko and Pongsaklek Wonjongkam is a mismatch since Klitschko is a lot bigger than Wonjongkam, and the former will beat the latter to a bloody pulp before the first round is over (in short, it's not fair). This is unlike Nadal vs Djokovic where they'd meet every time they make it to the final even though Nadal (hypothetically) is a lot bigger than Djokovic. Hence, there are "pound for pound" rankings to sort out which boxers are the best assuming they had the same weights. Hence "pound for pound." (This is the same in sports such as mixed martial arts and weightlifting.)
The issue with these "pound for pound" rankings is that these are completely subjective, hence in my examples I used as much as 4 lists; most of the time these lists include the same boxers in the top 5-6 anyway.
In a boxer's career he usually starts in the lower weights, as he progresses he steps up to a heavier weight limit. If a boxer is really good, he can win at least one title in any of the four orgs (WBC, WBA, IBF & WBO) or the lineal championship in every weight division. If he wins at least once in five weight divisions, it's a rare achievement. –HTD 10:08, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
While I can see its hard to identify a ITN-worthy championship/combination of championships, I agree with HTD that we shouldnt be dismissing this outright, we should at least make an attempt to see if we can arrive at some possible criteria to identify major boxing achievements rather than give it up just because it looks difficult (which admittedly it does). I am not sure if this is the right forum and we will also need few people with a more than decent knowledge of the sport to step up and take this forward. (Comment edited once) Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 14:02, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support when substantially updated tl;dr: If we post boxing, there should be certain standards of what is a "big match". And this was probably one. –– Vitali Klitschko is–almost without a doubt–one of the greatest legends of contemporary heavy-weight boxing. There are some opposing opinions above on the grounds that professional boxing has no one well-organized international body. These comments are true but entirely trivial, and if followed systematically would lead to us not never posting any pro boxing. Obviously we should post some pro boxing, it is anyway one of the most popular sports in modern history, but it's not ITNR because matches have to be decided on a case-by-case basis due to the fragmentation issue. This match–I think–passes the threshold as a very highly-anticipated and reported bout ("klitschko vs chisora" on Google News gives >2000 articles) and for reasons including the fact it was for the most esteemed weight class (heavyweight) title, Klitschko's legendary standing and what happened in the weight-in and the anticipation it built. Also, Chisora is a Briton, so this is of special interest to one of the main target audiences of the English Wikipedia. --hydrox (talk) 13:59, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment shouldn't the news caption reflect the fact that Chisora was arrested after the match for brawling with David Haye ([13] [14] [15])? It Is Me Here t / c 14:56, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment What would be real news is if the sport(?) of professional boxing could sort out its internal conflicts and harmonise into one global organisation with standardised rules and truly recognisable champions. Only then could non-boxing fans accept claims such as this one on their merits. HiLo48 (talk) 01:49, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
LOL at the question mark after boxing. That means persuading you is next to impossible. (LOL). If boxing isn't a sport, and darts and chess are, then what is a sport?
The harmonization of boxing into one organization, if it ever happens (it won't), is immaterial. The power is brokered by the matchmakers; these orgs just sanction matches; their title belts are next to worthless as the main prize are the guaranteed purses and the pay-per-view payoffs. In fact, this was the deal breaker in the Pacquiao vs. Mayweather; earlier this decade Pacquiao was ranked among the best, and he didn't even have a world championship.
Also, the heavyweight title isn't well followed anymore. Probably because the Americans suck at this weight level. –HTD 02:24, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
People often cite the split of title belts as a reason nobody cares about boxing but I also think the fragmentation of boxing might be overrated; people may be overlooking other reasons for boxing's decline (a growing perception that it's 'barbaric'; lack of title holders from the US, UK instead of Ukraine; the rise of other sports). Boxing has never had a global authority with the power of FIFA, FIBA, or the IOC. That said the US also sucks at soccer but that sport is plenty popular. --Johnsemlak (talk) 05:47, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think boxing as a sport and boxers as personalities' popularity is way too underrated. It's just not widely popular in the "right places" (UK and most of Europe) -- it should be popular in Asia and Latin America (by extension the Latino community in the U.S.), especially more so on the latter, since aside from football/soccer, what other sport would the people follow? Certainly not handball, cricket or rugby. –HTD 06:02, 21 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 17

February 17, 2012 (2012-02-17) (Friday)
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Amine El Khalifi (attempted suicide bombing)

Article: Amine El Khalifi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Amine El Khalifi is arrested in Washington, D.C. for an alleged suicide attack attempt (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Extensive new article on the subject has been created --ThaddeusB (talk) 06:48, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

as NOTNEWS that silly article shouldnt even exist, but canr be bothered with an AFDLihaas (talk) 22:34, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Libyan civil war anniversary

Article: Libyan civil war (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Libya celebrates the first anniversary of the start of the uprising against Muammar Gaddafi. (Post)
News source(s): Al Arabiya, Hindustan Times, Huffington Post, The Guardian
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: My first INT nomination Bahraini Activist Talk to me 09:40, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This wasn't included in On this day due to showing 2011–2012 Bahraini uprising 3 days ago and it's an unwritten role to not included topics from same category (Arab Spring in this case) in short time period. Bahraini Activist Talk to me 10:31, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just because it wasn't included on OTD doesn't mean it's a fit for ITN. It isn't — it's not "in the news". Oppose. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 13:01, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

German President resigns

Article: Christian Wulff (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Christian Wulff resigns as President of Germany in a televised address. (Post)
News source(s): Waterfield, Bruno (17 February 2012). "Blow to Merkel as German president resigns". The Telegraph.
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This seems to me to meet our criteria. --Rrius (talk) 10:33, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 16

February 16, 2012 (2012-02-16) (Thursday)
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Anthony Shadid's death

Article: Anthony Shadid (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Two time Pulitzer Prize winner Anthony Shadid dies suddenly at age 43 of an acute asthma attack. (Post)
News source(s): [16] [17]
Unexpected death of reporter considered among the best in the business. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:08, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sure if on assignment in a combat zone, but not from an asthma attack. FWIW I also opposed Whitney Houston on similar grounds. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 22:10, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gary Carter death

Article: Gary Carter (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ National Baseball Hall of Fame member Gary Carter dies at the age of 57 (Post)
News source(s): USA Today, ESPN, The New York Times, Los Angeles Times

Albacore (talk) 02:20, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

oppose hes hardly "Widely" known in the us and there are several hall of famers in each sport not to mention then adding all 4 major sports (does the MLS have one yet?) in 1 countyr alone...Lihaas (talk) 04:45, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that he's hardly "widely" known in the US, but it's worth correcting the erroneous belief that the Hall of Fame is limited to US players. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 13:06, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
My bad, domestic leagues'Lihaas (talk) 16:08, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. I mistakenly presumed so because of the "National" tag to the hall of fame. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 03:46, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not notable enough a person for ITN doktorb wordsdeeds 10:13, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Simply being a Hall of Famer might suggest he was a good player, but "importance" in the death criteria isn't judged on whether he was a Hall of Famer or not. News hits for "Gary Carter" before his death are limited. His death was not unexpected given his widely-known health condition. All in all, it's not notable enough for a mention on ITN, it's one for recent deaths. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 13:06, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I like baseball and all, but I don't think he's notable enough for an international encyclopedia. Midnite Joker (talk) 18:28, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Kindly dont attack the other editor, and more so that he admitted his fault. Comment on CONTENT!Lihaas (talk) 15:26, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Kindly re-read again. No one's attacking somebody. –HTD 22:00, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab sentenced

Article: Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The so called "underwear bomber" Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab is sentenced to life imprisonment by a judge in the US. (Post)
News source(s): Sky News

--BabbaQ (talk) 22:15, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support - notable, as far as sentencings go. Swarm X 22:26, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
oppose sentencing for such terrorism failures is common across Europe, Asia (India), etc. Currently there was also an extradition hearing for whatshisface and other crimes of conviction just penidng extradiction.Lihaas (talk) 23:15, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Someone being sentenced for an unsuccessful attempt at terrorism doesn't seem noteworthy enough to me and a significant update to the article is unlikely (there isn't much to say.) --ThaddeusB (talk) 04:47, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: For reasons given by Lihaas and ThaddeusB. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 04:53, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Notable crime but not a story which fits ITN doktorb wordsdeeds 10:14, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

UN resolution on Syria pass

Article: United Nations General Assembly (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United Nations General Assembly passes a resolution condemning the violence in Syria. (Post)
News source(s): Sky News

--BabbaQ (talk) 22:15, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support, but with shortened blurb. "The United Nations General Assembly passes a resolution condemning Syria (for ongoing violence, etc.)" Something along those lines. Swarm X 22:23, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
oppose as purely symbolic holding no weight whatsoevr. At this rate the north kosovo refrendum would be ITN material too.Lihaas (talk) 23:16, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle, but the article for update can't possibly be United Nations General Assembly. What about 2011–2012 Syrian uprising instead? --FormerIP (talk) 23:17, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support And I prefer if we mention the resolution support of the Arab League plan for the Bashar Al-Assad to relinquish power --aad_Dira (talk) 23:36, 16 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]

[Posted] Resignation of the President of Germany Christian Wulff

Article: Christian Wulff (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ President of Germany Christian Wulff resigns, over allegation of accepting advantage during his tenure as Prime Minister of Lower Saxony. (Post)
News source(s): Deutsche Welle, BBC, NY Times
Note: He does NOT face impeachment, only lifting of immunity. There's a big difference for the Bundestag between allowing prosecution by independent judiciary, and impeaching the President themselves. Even if the intended prosecution is successful and he is convicted, Wulff could still legally remain President (though there would of course be huge pressure put on him to resign). Still, it's a first in post-war Germany, so weak support if the Bundestag acts accordingly. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 19:19, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
He would face impeachment. Its just that in Germany impeachment doesn't necessarily result in removing him from office. --bender235 (talk) 19:44, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, I wouldn't call this "impeachment", nor does Wikipedia. Impeachment (with removal from office) is possible in Germany, as explained on WP: "The Federal President of Germany can be impeached both by the Bundestag and by the Bundesrat for willfully violating German law. Once the Bundestag or the Bundesrat impeaches the president, the Federal Constitutional Court decides whether the President is guilty as charged and, if this is the case, whether to remove him or her from office." (See also the corresponding German article .) But this (remote) possibility has nothing to do with the present situation of lifting of immunity (which is also routinely done for MPs accused of some crime, e.g. for Jörg Tauss in 2009). --Roentgenium111 (talk) 21:02, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not yet, but like you say if his immunity gets lifted, that would be ITNable. --FormerIP (talk) 19:20, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure? According to the Washington Post article there is an "initial suspicion" of wrongdoing; however such "... often does not lead to charges in Germany." I would agree that resignation or prosecution would be notable, but a mere investigation could as well never lead to any legal proceedings. --hydrox (talk) 22:08, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The lifting of the legal immunity of a sitting president would be quite significant, wouldn't it? --FormerIP (talk) 22:24, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support but modify, Christian Wulff has resigned this morning [19], and that's what should be ITN. Hektor (talk) 09:35, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
President of Germany Christian Wulff resigns, over allegation of accepting advantage during his tenure as Prime Minister of Lower Saxony.

February 15

February 15, 2012 (2012-02-15) (Wednesday)
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[Posted] Comayagua prison fire

Article: Comayagua prison fire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ More than 300 inmates in a prison in Comayagua, Honduras are killed in a fire. (Post)
News source(s): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17038259
Credits:

Article updated

 The Rambling Man (talk) 13:16, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator's comments: Article obviously needs expanding but latest update on deaths is frightening, and expected to rise. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:16, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Very high death toll and significant media coverage. However I don't see how this fulfils any of the minority topic criteria. The article requires expansion though. Modest Genius talk 14:21, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't, my mistake on a copy-paste of the template. Apologies. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:23, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Is being called "one of the worst fires in Latin American history" --ThaddeusB (talk) 14:44, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support Given the death toll and the echo through the media it is really one of the worst fires ever.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:42, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Conditional support, pending article expansion: "In the case of a new, event-specific article, the traditional cut-off for what is enough has been around three complete, referenced and well-formed paragraphs" (WP:ITN#Criteria). The event itself is certainly significant enough. -- Black Falcon (talk) 17:50, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The article has been adequately expanded and it is appropriately referenced and formatted. I checked a few sentences for copyright issues and found none. Nice work, especially in such a short time. -- Black Falcon (talk) 20:00, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - article has now been adequately expanded by The Rambling Man & myself enough to warrant posting. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:56, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Marked ready. Damn good article, especially for a new one and well source. I would have suggestedmerging with the main prision article (should be one)Lihaas (talk) 19:28, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I concur, that's a decent article now. Modest Genius talk 19:53, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wow! Very nice article, even more impressive given the time it was made in. Nightw 10:15, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Lion Air/Boeing deal

Article: Lion Air (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In a $22.4 billion deal, Indonesian airline Lion Air orders 230 aircraft from Boeing, a commercial aviation record. (Post)
News source(s): http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-15/boeing-signs-record-22-4-billion-lion-air-order-for-737s.html
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Biggest aircraft deal in commercial aviation history. – 58.7.251.19 (talk) 08:18, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The source says that this is the largest order ever for Boeing, not in aviation history. Is there a source for that claim? Modest Genius talk 11:20, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes [20][21][22] all say "Biggest aircraft order in history" or "the single largest contract in commercial aviation history." Covered in a range of news sources. 58.7.251.19 (talk) 11:54, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Support then, but the article needs a proper text update, including discussion of the record (at the moment there are just numbers in a table). Modest Genius talk 13:49, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support once the article has a sufficient update. This seems like a significant record, and I've notified WikiProject Aviation in the hopes of inviting more perspectives and to solicit an appropriate article update. -- Black Falcon (talk) 17:48, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The posted item should make clear that the dollar figure reflect US$. Also, as it's not clear whether the record is the dollar amount, the quantity of aircraft, or both, so I recommend rewording the blurb, perhaps to: Indonesian airline Lion Air orders 230 aircraft from Boeing in a US$22.4 billion deal, a commercial aviation record. -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:02, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support in light of C628's update at Lion Air#Orders. -- Black Falcon (talk) 22:07, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Updated. C628 (talk) 21:39, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Is "a commercial aviation record" referring to $22.4 billion, or the number of aircraft ordered? It needs to be clarified. --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 22:43, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to this, it's "the largest commercial airplane deal ever for Boeing, by both dollar value and total number of airplanes," and since it's also being reported as the largest order ever from any manufacturer, the record would seem to apply to both dollars and aircraft. C628 (talk) 01:15, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support This is definitely a record-breaking order and that's a lot of planes. Also, it would attract editors to the article which could use some improvement and expansion. Also, I have notified WikiProject Airlines about this discussion. —Compdude123 04:14, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Mohammed Lamari

Article: Mohammed Lamari (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Algerian general Mohammed Lamari who led the military during the civil war dies at the age of 73. (Post)
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Led the post election civil war that crushed the Islamic movement (which some see as a powdr keg in the ongoing Arab Srping to fear a similar reaction in Algeria. Lihaas (talk) 03:25, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Smallest chameleon

Article: Brookesia micra (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Scientists describe the smallest chameleons known to date - Brookesia micra (pictured) from Madagascar. (Post)
News source(s): over 400 results in Google News, including BBC, Wired, РИА Новости, ZEIT
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: The smallest vertebrate was featured a month ago.  Daniel Mietchen - WiR/OS (talk) 14:05, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

DYK does seem to be a better venue. Modest Genius talk 09:44, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
DYK is more appropriate yes.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:35, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 14

February 14, 2012 (2012-02-14) (Tuesday)
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  • The Ugandan minister Minister for Ethics and Integrity Simon Lokodo raids a workshop for gay activists and attempts to arrest the organiser. (BBC)
  • Kuwait forms a new cabinet before a new session of the assembly on Wednesday. (IOL)
  • Thousands of opposition supporters from Iran's Green Movement march silently through the capital Tehran calling for the release of political prisoners. (Financial Times)

Sport

February 13

February 13, 2012 (2012-02-13) (Monday)
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2012 Israeli embassy attack

Article: 2012 Israeli embassy attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A bombing and attempted bombing at the Israeli embassies in India and Georgia, respectively, caused 4 injuries amid an escalating war of words between Israel and Iran. (Post)
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Not significat in death count, but notable in the escalation of rhetoric and more (and more in the light of the alleged flase flag over the saudi ambassador in DC and other covert ops). Indian nes is all covering the "entrance" of India to intl proxy wars. Lihaas (talk) 06:40, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment No, sorry, I don't remember the hostage crisis because it was 33 years ago! LOL LOL LOL @ "nothing new". Agree on Thailand though, whoever is doing this, it seems to be coordinated. It's too bad Netanyahu opened his fat disgusting face and painted this incident with the Iranian brush. The article is now doomed to be another Israel vs Palestine battleground, no quality update for it. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 12:26, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] First launch of Vega

Article: Vega (rocket) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Vega successfully launches nine international satellites on its first flight, including main payload LARES. (Post)
News source(s): http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Vega/SEM8QAWX7YG_0.html http://spaceflightnow.com/vega/vv01/status.html
Credits:

Nominator's comments: First launch of the new European Space Agency rocket, Vega, with innovative first stage Hektor (talk) 11:07, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

comment noteworthy article but it needs SOURCIGN on the upadate and article as a whole.Lihaas (talk) 08:46, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The update is a bit better now, still not ideal but I guess that's what we'll get. The article is about the rocket, not just about the particular launch. Ready to post? --Tone 14:17, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The update is disappointing, but the article is OK. Might as well post; it's not as if we have any other alternatives at the moment and the timer is red. I think you should drop 'international' from the blurb though, since it really doesn't add anything. Marking [ready] Modest Genius talk 14:39, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, ready to post. However, I'd like to mention that that was the first successful launch of a new rocket type - as this is the reason why this story is on ITN. Any way to write this in a short way? --Tone 15:08, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first launch of ESA's Vega rocket successfully launches nine satellites, including its main payload LARES
something like that? Modest Genius talk 16:08, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, posting. --Tone 16:22, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, I think David Levy's rephrasing is better than my version. Modest Genius talk 11:22, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is. David, thank you for always doing second-checking of the blurbs. Appreciated. --Tone 11:36, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 12

February 12, 2012 (2012-02-12) (Sunday)
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[Posted] Greek austerity vote and protests

Nominator's comments: One article or two articles? Result of vote is expected today or on the early hours of Monday. --hydrox (talk) 22:03, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose has there been a year without protests or riots in Greece? This is just one piece of the European debt puzzle. I think that if it doesn't pass, and there is a significant response from the market, we can re-visit, but right now it's not that big of a deal. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 22:41, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
According to BBC these are some of the most massive protests since 2008, including several buildings ablaze, 80,000 protesters and half a hundred injuries. But I do agree it will not be as big deal because the crucial vote was passed. --hydrox (talk) 23:01, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
support as highl notable and passed ith overhelming majority as it as pretty much what the EU asked for, alternatively wait till the bailout money comes in (but then this part maybe stale if its not in this week)Lihaas (talk) 02:17, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The is apparently the largest austerity protest in Greece; according to Channel 7 Sydney, more than 100,000 attended the protests. In my opinion the Greek austerity plans itself is already significant enough to warrant being posted. YuMaNuMa Contrib 05:50, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. --Tone 09:49, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 2012 Africa Cup of Nations

Support It's obviously a major tournament. Zambia have won on penalties.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:30, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

blurl: In football, Zambia win the final of the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations played at Libreville, Gabon, against Ivory Coast by 8-7 on penalties after a tie 0-0, in a shcok result; and clisifiqued to the 2013 Confederations Cup — Preceding unsigned comment added by Feroang (talk • contribs) 23:44, 12 February 2012‎ (UTC)[reply]


Though I'd love some more prose regarding the finals itself, the update is sufficient now, posting. And yes, we generally do not post results. --Tone 09:39, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
^We always post results (rather than the mere fact that the tournament has concluded). I think you meant that we don't generally include scores. Modest Genius talk 13:36, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Right, scores ;-) --Tone 17:28, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Grammy Awards

Article: 54th Grammy Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ X wins Record of the Year, while Y wins Album of the Year at the 54th Grammy Awards. (Post)
News source(s): http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/the-grammy-awards-live/
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Typical, you wait for one awards ceremony and two come along at once. - JuneGloom Talk 20:20, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] BAFTA Awards

Article: 65th British Academy Film Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Artist wins seven awards, including Best Film at the 65th British Academy Film Awards. (Post)
News source(s): http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a364820/orange-bafta-film-awards-2012-winners-list-live-updates.html
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 JuneGloom Talk 20:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a go at expanding the lead some more. Does there need to be a separate prose section? - JuneGloom Talk 21:56, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, let's say that will do, posting. Highlighting the BAFTA's article, per standard practice. --Tone 22:39, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Vogtle Electric Generating Plant

US approves the construction of the first nuclear plant in 30 years. [23]

It is a big news for a developed country (excluding France) to resume building nuclear plants. Nergaal (talk) 18:54, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How so?--WaltCip (talk) 19:13, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Really? --76.18.43.253 (talk) 22:35, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support good update, good article over all, minority topic (engineering) and yes, it is significant. While Germany has a fukushima fear meltdown, the USA builds their first new reactor since three mile island. The most energy intensive country in the world has decided the risks of nuclear outweigh the costs of fossil. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 22:37, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose since this is only the approval, either wait for construction to start or plant to open. Approvals as we all know may not mean squat -- Ashish-g55 22:49, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Preliminary construction had already started when the ESP was approved. The COL approves the actual building of the reactor, again, the first time in 30 years one has been issued. I think we can post again in 2016 when the first reactor comes online. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 22:57, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Al Shabaab/Al Qaeda

Article: Al Shabaab (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Somali group al-Shabaab formally agree to cooperate with al-Qaeda. (Post)
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Notably high-level international orgs agreeing to coordinate could increase their potency where the former make regular gains/losses and the latter are arguably on the backfoot.Lihaas (talk) 04:28, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I am not convinced by the importance of this story doktorb wordsdeeds 10:09, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support if there's independent confirmation. If what I'm reading in the CNN article is correct, they're joining al-Qaeda. Which would mean that al-Qaeda now has de facto sovereignty over half a country. The undertones aside, they were probably cooperating before now so I doubt it's any real change, but notable enough for me. Nightw 12:45, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone give me a link to the story please? Nanobear (talk) 12:48, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There's a few on the al-Shabaab article. The CNN article is here. Nightw 13:00, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support per Night. Two major terrorist/islamist organisations joining forces, at least on the rhetorical level. The consequences of this are still unclear, of course, but as a current event I believe this is very notable. Nanobear (talk) 13:35, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose First of all, the update is titled "merger with al-Qaeda". I don't see anywhere that the "forces of Al Shabaab" have given up their existing power structure and are now totally under the control of al-Qaeda. That's gotta go before posting to main. Second, what is Al Shabaab? What is al-Qaeda? Are they cohesive, identifiable, uniformed groups of disciplined loyal individuals? No, they're not. Al Shabaab is made up of various tribes across Somalia. Who knows where their true loyalties lie. The true scope of this "co-operation" is also unknown, beyond "we pledge allegiance to you". And pledge their allegiance to who? Al-Qaeda could be 9 people in a Holiday Inn for all we know. To me it looks like propaganda from organizations notorious for false claims. --76.18.43.253 (talk) 13:52, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So I changed "Merger with Al-Qaeda" to "Alliance with Al-Qaeda" in the main article on the grounds that it's "separate orgs, same goals". --76.18.43.253 (talk) 18:41, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't like the idea of this running on ITN, but the area Al-Shabaab controls amounts to a de-facto state. I therefore dispute Doktorbuk's argument entirely. With sufficient evidence of coverage, and more careful wording of the blurb, I would probably support. —WFC— 14:16, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support two of the biggest islamist organizations getting together is definitely ITN material.--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:25, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I think we should wait until after the FTC approves the merger. -- tariqabjotu 20:02, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Only time will tell how significant is this development, but currently I do not see enough of an update to the article or other significant reasons to warrant an entry to the front page. --hydrox (talk) 21:24, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It's not normally appropriate to compare one story to another at ITNC, I know that. But as this is largely about Al Qaeda, I wonder whether we should instead focus on Al-Qaeda's call for Muslims to support Syrian rebels? Given the level of attention the UNSC Permanent Members and the Arab League are paying to Syria right now, that strikes me as being of considerably more global significance. [24] [25] —WFC— 02:23, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
SHould be nom'd on its own merits. Though as a call alone i would hold off till it yields something. This was however officially done akin to treaties or biz deals (despite abjotu's sarcastic comment where is no OVERSIGHT authority on this vs. there actually being on in the biz sector)Lihaas (talk) 09:44, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose one can never find sources independent of the subjects on the "notability" or even the "existence" of this relationship. I would hardly expect those to be forthcoming. Didn't make any major news splash in the US (the supposed target of this alliance) that I'm aware of. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:22, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Whitney Houston

Article: Whitney Houston (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ American singer Whitney Houston dies at the age of 48. (Post)
News source(s): http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/obit/story/2012-02-11/whitney-houston/53053070/1
Credits:

Not exactly got the time to put this in the nice template and all right now so maybe someone else will do so. AP is reporting Whitney Houston has died. I think she's had enough musical success to meet criterion #2 of the death criteria. Timer's red and at 44 hours, so if this gets updated fast (which it will) and we get consensus early, it should go up asap. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 01:10, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support: the second line of the article pretty much makes her an ITN-eligible death. Sceptre (talk) 03:13, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support/comment How was the posting premature? She died. What more can be said? That's the news. Post it. WikifanBe nice 03:15, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Wikipedia is not a news outlet, and ITN is not a news ticker. Its primary purpose is to link to encyclopedia articles substantially updated to reflect recent/current events, not to report breaking news. A substantial update to the Whitney Houston article (i.e. something more than "she died, and that's all we know") is not yet possible. —David Levy 03:40, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Not quite sure what DL is looking for here. Lampman (talk) 03:21, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    There's only two sentences added to the article about her death. Given this wasn't of old age, it would be best to affirm the cause of death and some of the initial reactions (which there are plenty) to the article before posting, like all ITN. --MASEM (t) 03:30, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    It could be weeks before we get the coroner's report, but that's not a requirement. She's dead, we know that. Lampman (talk) 03:46, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    You're right; that's not a requirement. We just need a substantial article update. —David Levy 03:50, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm looking for a substantial article update. The fact that one is not yet possible is a reason to wait, not to proceed on the basis that there's nothing more we can do at this juncture. —David Levy 03:40, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support IVOTE!HotHat (talk) 03:26, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Ain't it shocking what drugs can do? --FormerIP (talk) 03:32, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just post I don't see what needs to be updated this second unless you want to add the million or so rumors surrounding her death, which of course we can't. A final cause of death probably will take weeks. The only thing I could think of adding is the music industry reactions to her death, but that isn't a significant update for now at least. Secret account 03:34, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Without a substantial article update, we're simply reporting breaking news. That isn't the purpose of Wikipedia or ITN. —David Levy 03:40, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support now without delay. I was surprised to see it not listed and don't agree with the rationale to pull it, David. The exact details won't be available for days. Her death has been widely reported. Royalbroil 03:43, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    You seem to be under the mistaken impression that ITN is a news ticker. This is a common misconception, so we always receive comments like yours when someone extremely famous dies and an item doesn't appear immediately.
    We don't necessarily need to know the cause of death. We just need a substantial article update. —David Levy 03:50, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    It seemed like the article was being shunned with the only reason being that it was somewhat new news. At the time that I posted, it was widely reported by reliable sources. The article itself was in the right shape (overall) to be on the main page (B-class). My point was that ITN shouldn't necessarily avoid it just because some people are still reporting it as breaking news. We disagreed on how substantive of an update is needed. Royalbroil 13:16, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Levy, you're making this more complicated than it needs to be. For starters, it is basically impossible to make serious changes when the article is being subject to endless contributions, reverts, etc...forcing eternal edit conflicts. It took me close to 20 minutes just to update the death section, only for the section to be removed in another edit conflict. Section has three solid sentences, but like editors said we won't know more until the next few days or weeks. There is an overwhelming consensus to post. WikifanBe nice 04:07, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    The fact that the article is being heavily edited may be a good reason to wait on posting the ITN until that settles down. Right now, at least before posting this, one of the statements in the death section would be the type of thing that would fail BLP ("acting erratically" ) even though sourced and the like. There's reactions from people that were close friends of hers like Bobby Brown, for example, that can also be added. If she died of old-age natural cause, then yes, there's not much to say about the death and a few lines would be sufficient. Here, a death at 48 in a hotel room the day before the Grammy's, is sparkling a lot of rumor milling, and it is best we only post once RS's settle down as to the cause. --MASEM (t) 04:18, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    (edit conflict × 2)
    That the article is wildly unstable is an argument against posting the item at this juncture.
    Again, the section's purpose is to direct readers to an encyclopedia article providing a substantial amount of information about the event, not to report breaking news and throw them into the fray. Posting the item now would disappoint visitors by sending them to an article providing little information about Houston's death. Would these individuals check back later (after the article has been substantially updated)? Perhaps not.
    Indeed, there's overwhelming consensus (including my support) that the item should be posted. We just need a decent article update, and we probably will have one soon. —David Levy 04:22, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Its breaking news till we find out cause of death. So wait please. David was right to pull this -- Ashish-g55 04:20, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    You are wrong cause of death is not required! All we need to report is that she died and where and when that's all because even by People Magazine they say cops found have seen her body. By the way, a cause of death may take weeks to determine and substantiate, so we cannot go by that alone.HotHat (talk) 04:29, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    I dont mean post after an autopsy but some details on what happened atleast. Or an update worth posting. People Magazine's job is to report breaking news, not ITN's -- Ashish-g55 04:33, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - if Wikipedia doesn't have information that is the current headline just about everywhere in the world, then Wikipedia becomes irrelevant and unreliable. - Richard Cavell (talk) 04:46, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    At the moment, our Whitney Houston article is an unreliable source of information about her death. That's why it's too soon to post an ITN item. —David Levy 04:53, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    That's the understatement of the year. A paragraph, 3 references from the LA Times and CNN. What else can be added at this point? –HTD 04:59, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    The reason why the Wikipedia article is unreliable source of information about her death is because there is no reliable source of information (yet). The fact of her death, though, is confirmed. The ITN item does not describe her cause of death, but rather the fact that she has died. - Richard Cavell (talk) 05:04, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    A substantial article update was needed. I'm sorry that people have difficulty understanding how the section works. (The name doesn't help.) —David Levy 05:09, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Re-posted. Following the most recent revisions, I'm satisfied that the update (which now includes actual details about Houston's death and comments from notable persons) is sufficient. —David Levy 05:09, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I suggest a picture be posted as well, similar to the posting of Amy Winehouse's death. WikifanBe nice 05:16, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Done. —David Levy 05:34, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 11

February 11, 2012 (2012-02-11) (Saturday)
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Sport

2012 European cold wave

At least 400 people have died in Europe and part of Asia including Russia. 57 in Romania[27], at least 122 in Ukraine [28], 64 in Russia...and the list continues. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 12:54, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support This wave is said to be one of the heaviest in the last decades in terms of deaths, low temperatures and halts in the air transport. Places where snow flurries were deemed sporadic are hit with very heavy snow, causing extraordinary conditions and emergency situation in many countries.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:08, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional support Important, but needs some conversion of listy data into smooth text. Brandmeister t 14:23, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As creator of the article, I am going to support. Although I do agree the article needs tidying up, that should be done after the wave ends. Bruvtakesover (T|C) 15:52, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Very significant number of deaths from an unusual phenomenon. I'm in the UK right now and f-f-f-freezing! --109.155.78.55 (talk) 17:12, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - too many deads too big zone, is a real news--Feroang (talk) 19:36, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reluctant support On the one hand I don't like the precident this sets or the way the information is formatted. On the other, it meets the significance and coverage levels of ITN, and has been sufficiently updated. —WFC— 21:00, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Temporary Oppose The topic is certainly ok, but the update is not. I'm Canadian, and for us -20c doesn't cause scores of deaths. The update is a list of factoids by country. What the article needs is some context comparing the current temperatures to average. A map would be great. Also, the minimum temp was -35, but for how long? Where? --76.18.43.253 (talk) 01:39, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Several times a year, the media get overexcited about the weather. Yes, it has been really bad in some places and the deaths are a tragedy. But they were a tragedy last year and they will be a tragedy next year. 400 people dying in Kettering would be ITN worthy. 400 across two continents, less so. --FormerIP (talk) 03:41, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
technical issues the article is only a lisyt not encyclopaedic prose. Further i think we could have a global 2011-2012 cold wave article.Lihaas (talk) 09:33, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 10

February 10, 2012 (2012-02-10) (Friday)
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Zoran Đinđić assassin

Articles: Zoran Đinđić (talk · history · tag) and Assassination of Zoran Đinđić (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The convicted assassin of Prime Minister Zoran Đinđić (pictured) is arrested in Spain, pending extradition to Serbia via Interpol. (Post)
Credits:

Both articles need updating

Nominator's comments: Notable assiassination of a world leader, conviction carried out in absentia, extradition due to carry out decade + sentence --Lihaas (talk) 02:13, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support in principle; the event is notable but there isn't much press interest it seems. Unfortunately this is going to go stale due to the lack of an update. If anyone wants to spend half an hour on this it could go up. Modest Genius talk 14:51, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hamza Kashgari

Article: Hamza Kashgari (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Malaysian authorities arrest a Saudi columnist after being accused of insulting prophet Mohammad. (Post)
News source(s): https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/world/asia/malaysia-detains-saudi-over-twitter-posts-on-prophet.html
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This case is getting massive media attention and social reaction. --OsamaK (talk) 06:44, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 9

February 9, 2012 (2012-02-09) (Thursday)
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[Posted] Baltasar Garzón banned

Article: Baltasar Garzón (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Spanish judge Baltasar Garzón (pictured), known for helping arrest Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet in 1998 and for attempting to investigate Franco-era crimes, is banned from the legal profession for 11 years. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
support notable and others (other judges who supported him and journalists) have calld it a throwback to the undemocratic era.Lihaas (talk) 19:06, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Judge with that much importance of the trials during his career is an important person. The update in the article looks decent as well.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:51, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but actually the article update needs to include the lead. --FormerIP (talk) 01:20, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Question: Is his banning from the legal profession linked to Pinochet or are they separate issues? SpencerT♦C 03:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like a seperate issue; apparently Garzon was bringing charges against persons associated with the Francisco Franco regime in Spain; said people had supposedly already been granted some sort of amnesty or immunity which Garzon's indictments violated. That's my reading anyways. --Jayron32 04:47, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Mine too. Politically motivated, many judges came out in support of him.Lihaas (talk) 06:42, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 8

February 8, 2012 (2012-02-08) (Wednesday)
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Homs

Article: February 2012 bombardment of Homs (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In a scorched earth operation, the Syrian Army leveled the Inshaat quarter of Homs, killing up to 100 people. (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph, FAZ (in German), Al-Jazeera, BBC
Please let us hear your best NPOV blurb of this. --bender235 (talk) 19:34, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 7

February 7, 2012 (2012-02-07) (Tuesday)
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Prop 8 overturned

Article: Perry v. Brown (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals overturns California Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, NY Times
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This is a big issue, and this case could potentially reach the Supreme Court of the United States. --Presidentman talk · contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 00:01, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose we cant not post every gay issue of every province, we must post something that do happend, like the day that argentinian congress aproov same-sex marriage, or another real change in a national marriage law. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Feroang (talk • contribs) 00:30, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose we can post it if it gets overturned in supreme court for entire country. we should not be posting changes in gay rights for single state for any country. -- Ashish-g55 00:32, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Nominate again after SCOTUS ruling, please. --bender235 (talk) 00:45, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Agree with Ash's rationale. The litmus test is whether we would do this for similarly prominent sub-national entities, such as England or Sao Paulo. —WFC— 03:56, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Opposers, please educate yourselves about the legal system of the United States before you spout your nonsense. This is not some "gay issue of a province". Some decisions establish precedents that are widely followed by others (e.g. Brown v. Board of Education), and given that there are a number of states in a similar situation as California on the same sex marriage issue, the effects of this ruling is huge. Furthermore, even if it is only limited to California, there is no reason to consider it less important than a change in a national marriage law for some arbitrary nation. We're talking about a state with 40 million people. JimSukwutput 07:03, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(1)"Opposers, please educate yourselves about the legal system of the United States before you spout your nonsense." I would think it is for the nominator (and supporters) to demonstrate the notability of any event and not for the opposers to presume notability and provide reasons otherwise. If not, other editors will comment based on the bolded article and the nominator's comments (that this could potentially reach the Supreme Court on appeal - if and when the SC upholds the decision, I will support ITN inclusion, as of now its an Oppose.) (2)"Furthermore, even if it is only limited to California, there is no reason to consider it less important than a change in a national marriage law for some arbitrary nation. We're talking about a state with 40 million people. " I like where you are going with this, but I doubt most editors would agree that something that affects the entire population of Andhra Pradesh (Pop: 84.67 million, 5th largest in India) is more notable than something that affects the entire population of some arbitrary nation like Germany (Pop: 81.77 million, Largest in Europe excl. Russia). Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 08:09, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to post this when the news broke but stopped myself because it really is a decision that, even if challenged, likely affects one state (the decision was based on a conflict with the CA state constitution, and thus likely the SCOTUS challenge will be limited to whether voters can restrict rights via propositions, rather than the legality of gay marriage). Important in the larger scheme for equality for gay marriage, but would fail the general criteria of ITN. --MASEM (t) 14:03, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I would also note that Brown v. Board of Education is hardly a relevant example to support inclusion, since Brown v. Board of Education was a Supreme Court decision that established precedent for the US, while this is an intermediate appellate court decision that is subject to appeal and even if not only establishes a precedent for one circuit (I assume the 9th). Rlendog (talk) 18:44, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As above. This is a stepping stone issue, just involves one State, which is no where near notable enough for the front page prominence we're considering. If it ever gets to the Supreme Court we might have an argument. For now, there is none. Simply not important enough a development doktorb wordsdeeds 07:30, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - This is going to the SCOTUS without a doubt. We can take a look at it then. We wouldn't be establishing good precedence by covering the results of intermediate court cases.--WaltCip (talk) 14:01, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I'm glad this has been submitted for ITN because it deserves to be debated. In hundreds of years when equal rights will be commonplace, historians will look back to Prop 8 as one of the last stands by the right wing. I would love to give this my support but I have to use my head and say this particular decision by this particular court doesn't warrant an appearance in ITN. Sorry. --109.155.78.55 (talk) 17:38, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Death of last surviving World War I veteran

Article: Florence Green (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Florence Green, the last known surviving participant of the First World War, passes away at age 110. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: We've been holding off from posting veterans for some time now for this. Absolutely no way this should be ignored. --PlasmaTwa2 18:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support, no matter that she was in a non-combat role she was an active member of the armed forces in WW1 and was the last link to that event.yorkshiresky (talk) 20:03, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The majority of the previous veteran deaths that have been suggested here were for arbitrary statistics: last Canadian, last British male, last soldier, etc. As far as anyone can tell Green was the last verifiable WWI veteran. There's always going to be some people claiming to have served, but she was the last one in which it cannot be disputed. --PlasmaTwa2 20:45, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. World War I was a very important event in world history, so the fact that the last surviving veteran has passed away is notable. The last surviving veteran of World War II passing away, once it happens, will also be notable. JIP | Talk 20:05, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Notice how the BBC puts "World's last" in quotes. The opening line of the news report is "A woman thought to be[by whom?] the world's last known surviving service member of World War I has died aged 110." It's because the BBC isn't sure. Nor should we be sure. Massive verifiability fail here, as foreshadowed by HiLo above. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:14, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The last surviving veteran of any war is notable. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 20:30, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Groups that track veterans, like the Order of the First World War, have verified her as the last service member. Regardless of whether or not there are others, she was the last one alive with documents proving that she served during the war, and that should be good enough. An argument against this based on th fact that "we aren't sure" is, in my opinion, very poor. We are sure that she was the last verified veteran, and so she is the de facto final veteran to pass away. --PlasmaTwa2 20:52, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC is a reliable source. They aren't willing to put their name to the claim that she is the last veteran. Veterans' organisations, who you have neither named nor linked to, are not reliable sources. We don't lower the bar on verifiability, especially not for the main page. Posting this would be an appalling error of judgement. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:24, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I actually did name an organization if you would take another look, and I believe an international organization whose main goal is to follow veterans is about as reliable of a source as you can get. If you want to look them up, just Google them because I find linking on Wikipedia to be more trouble than it is worth. Like I said, there is no way to prove that she was the last veteran overall due to the large scale of the First World War and the time that has passed, but it has already been proven that she was the last veteran of which we had 100% undeniable proof of her service. Saying we should not post this because there is a slight chance she isn't the last veteran is the appalling error of judgement. --PlasmaTwa2 21:40, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If the BBC was as confident as you were, they would have called it. As it stands, I trust the BBC ahead of an anoymous internet poster (you). WP:V commands that I do so.--Mkativerata (talk) 21:44, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Telegraph are prepared to remove all qualifiers and refer to her as the last veteran. Hut 8.5 22:05, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggestion Mkativerata, would it be acceptable if we changed it to "last known surviving veteran"? That's what a lot of major sources, like the Washington Post, have been doing. [29] -- Scorpion0422 22:47, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've changed the blurb per Scorpion's suggestion. I believe this to have consensus to post, but haven't marked as ready because – while I personally think it's sufficient – the level of updating is borderline. —WFC— 03:47, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone explain this to me? Therequiembellishere (talk) 04:22, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He's the last surviving veteran from the WWI-era. He fought in the Polish-Soviet War, but not in WWI. Nightw 04:35, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is past its due-by date now. She died on the 5th, which is before all of the current ITN items. Nightw 12:20, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Glencore-Xstrata merger

Articles: Glencore (talk · history · tag) and Xstrata (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The mining company Xstrata and the world's largest commodity trading company Glencore agree to merge in a deal worth US$90bn.[dubious – discuss] (Post)
News source(s): BBC Guardian
Credits:

Both articles need updating

Nominator's comments: The world's largest commodity trader and one of the world's largest mining companies are merging. The new company, Glencore Xstrata International, will have a value of $90bn, making it one of the 10 largest companies on the London Stock Exchange. Modest Genius talk 09:54, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

notable for usre but lets wait till its done. I expect europe which is harder on antitrust regulationsmay oversight it. Remember Deutsche Bourse-NYSE and all the hype of an agreement?Lihaas (talk) 12:06, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Lihaas suggested the following blurb:
comment bloomberg says $41billion..Lihaas (talk) 02:35, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • It will probably be a major story if it goes through (and hopefully we can have Glencore Xtrata International ready to go for that event) but it's definitely worth waiting until the shareholders have approved it - as I understand it, there's strong resistance from some large investors, and it's far from a done deal even leaving aside the regulatory issues. Shimgray | talk | 20:55, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Maldives presidential resignation

Article: Mohammed Waheed Hassan (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Mohammed Waheed Hassan is sworn in as the President of the Maldives following the resignation of Mohamed Nasheed due to weeks of protests led by local police dissidents. (Post)
News source(s): TIME, LA Times, BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Wave of global protests and anti-incumbency extended to big and small states alike. And not all are economic (like this) --Lihaas (talk) 08:47, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Major news in the South Asian region. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 10:46, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Posting. --Tone 16:48, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pull. There's hardly any content in the 2012 presidential election section to speak of. It needs a far more substantial update before it can end up on the front page.--WaltCip (talk) 16:28, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Modify blurb: The former president said that he was forced to resign at gunpoint, making this a coup rather than a resignation(this claim has been supported by the foreign minister). Indian military intervention (similar to Operation Cactus) was sought by Nasheed, but the Manmohan Singh government just sat on the fence (surprise, surprise). I guess the article will have to be updated and the blurb modified: as of now, it is wrong news (or at the very least incomplete news) that we have posted. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 03:04, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment suggest pull/modify per Chocolate Horlicks EdwardLane (talk) 12:20, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Shouldn't need to pull the whole thing, just redact the resignation part until the article is updated. Nightw 12:59, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Agree to an amendment to the blurb. Also Nasheeds article si more updated so tha should be in bold. And add the counter protests and arres warrant for Nasheed. Shits going on there.Lihaas (talk) 06:46, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, shit is definitely going on there, but looks like no shit is going on here at ITN/C. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 08:28, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 6

February 6, 2012 (2012-02-06) (Monday)
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[Posted] 2012 Negros Oriental earthquake

- At least 43 deaths after a 6.8 magnitude earthquake in Philippines. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 18:13, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's good to post. Suggest the blurb, please (generic or something else?). --Tone 10:40, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Since we're running red and the article is in a good shape, posting. --Tone 10:42, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Contador stripped of 2010 Tour; banned

Article: Alberto Contador (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Spanish cyclist Alberto Contador is banned for two years for doping and stripped of his 2010 Tour de France and 2011 Giro d'Italia victories, with Andy Schleck and Michele Scarponi respectively promoted to race winner. (Post)
News source(s): http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/16905217
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Far bigger than the Armstrong story below; in any case, the Tour de France is an ITNR subject so there's clear significance in this ruling. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 15:33, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hm, the blurb is rather lengthy, shall we really mention Schleck and Scarponi? Otherwise, ready to post. --Tone 16:52, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think at the very least Schleck should be, because the Tour is ITNR. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 17:12, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I'll post the complete blurb for the time being. If it turns out to be too long, we can still modify it. --Tone 17:17, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Romanian revolution

Articles: 2012 Romanian protests (talk · history · tag) and Mihai Razvan Ungureanu (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Romanian Prime Minister Emil Boc is replaced by Mihai Razvan Ungureanu following weeks of protests against austerity measures. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNN
Credits:

 Lihaas (talk) 09:48, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support - I nominated this article in January after the Bucharest violences. Now we have the result. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 11:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Changed title to protests as that's what the article's title says. Support in principle, resignation of head of government is standard ITN material. Both articles (protests and Boc's) require some work, though. --Tone 11:52, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. He seems to resign immediately. --bender235 (talk) 14:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support major news that brings further instability in the region. Crnorizec (talk) 19:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Important news for Romania and it's people. It reminds me of the poll tax riots in the UK except without the resignation. A PM resigning due to policy unpopularity is certainly noteworthy. --109.155.78.55 (talk) 19:33, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article needs significant changes. I can't believe we still have crap like this on Wikipedia: "In '89 they have put their hopes in a better, free, developed Romania to come for them in the near future. Instead, the reality failed to come, year by year being led into a feeling of deep, passive dissatisfaction, a frustration never so largely expressed in the public. On the background of the world economical recession still in progress at that time, of unsecured European economical politics (not existing yet an European Fiscal Union), and by imitating the crisis situations in Europe, on January 13th came the right moment to express their complaints to the government and to the world, by starting the protests, taking advantage of the goodwill event of sustaing SMURD and Raed Arafat of the previous day, by quickly turning their opinion against the Romanian system." That has to be the silliest original research I've yet seen. (Also, trade-union organized vandalism and riots against austerity measures is not a "revolution". Whoever brought up that term should have his editing privileges revoked immediately.) JimSukwutput 22:18, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of criticising you can change it!
Furthermore, there isnt a revolution 5 mins after a president resigns ( a la egypt) and the causes dont dtermine a revolution either. That's OR and whover "said that should have their editing priviliges rekoved immeidately"
Furthermore, this is not an article title or a blurb but a subsection of the nom. please focus!Lihaas (talk) 23:02, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Diamond Jubilee of Elizabeth II

 Whiteghost.ink 01:19, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. This is already posted in On This Day. --FormerIP (talk) 01:35, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This is a very notable event worthy of being posted in ITN. Considering there will be Diamond Jubilee celebrations throughout the world, I think it should be included. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:37, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, suggest posting as ITN and removing the piece in OTD, I suspect that the appearance of Her Maj. in OTD is a regular occurrence regarding her accession but the diamond jubilee is far more notable. Points of notability include head of the commonwealth, only the 2nd British monarch to have a diamond jubilee and only the 3rd for any monarch in the last 60 years [30](fact 60). Also suggest changing the blurb to "Elizabeth II, the second longest reigning British monarch and head of the commonwealth, celebrates her Diamond Jubilee.. --wintonian talk 02:04, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I also suggest removing the Fred Goodwin story or at least removing direct reference to the Queen as it might be a bit unfair for her to have 2 mentions in ITN at the same time. --wintonian talk 02:12, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK, well if the story can be pulled from OTD, then that would take care of my oppose. HOWEVER...I'm not sure it is her diamond jubilee. Isn't that later in the year on the anniversary of her coronation? --FormerIP (talk) 02:26, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is indeed her Diamond Jubilee. --Nutthida (talk) 02:30, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Really not sure about that. See this: [31]. I think it's either in June or "jubilee" refers to the year rather than a specific day. --FormerIP (talk) 02:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just like her birthday, the exact date is a total mystery to some! I'm really not sure about it either now. Is this just ascension day? The Jubilee is just for her coronation day. She wasn't crowned the day her father died xD (Woah, imagine how insensitive that would be) --Nutthida (talk) 02:46, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict × 3)A jubilee occurs on the anniversary of the monarchs accession to the throne at least in the British Isles. The celebrations however are in June due to the accession also being when the death of the previous monarch occurred. --wintonian talk 02:52, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
See [32] for information on when the jubilee actually is. --wintonian talk 03:02, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That link doesn't clear things up, Wint. It says "Accession Day is on 6th February". --FormerIP (talk) 03:20, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This sentence "The Queen’s Diamond Jubilee marks 60 years since her accession in 1952." in my interpretation states that accession day is the actual date of the jubilee, unless I am reading it wrong. --wintonian talk 03:34, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's possible, since I'm getting the impression that the jubilee is 2012, rather than any specific day. In either case, the phrase in the blurb "celebrates her Diamond Jubilee" seems wrong on the basis that she intends to celebrate it in June, according to the sources. --FormerIP (talk) 03:43, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Good point "celebrates her Diamond Jubilee" is compleatly the wrong phrase to use suggest we use ""marks her Diamond Jubilee" instead? --wintonian talk 03:57, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We don't generally do anniversaries here: we didn't even post the tenth anniversary of 9/11. If this really a more significant milestone that that? What can there be in terms of a real update anyway? Crispmuncher (talk) 02:33, 6 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
This isn't just an "Anniversary" it's Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee (or, maybe it isn't, this is confusing). And comparing it to the anniversary of 9/11 is totally irrelevant to this entry. We do not play tit-for-tat here. Please treat them as individual events /: --Nutthida (talk) 02:42, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't tit for tat - I opposed that too. It's just that the simple passage of time since an event is not itself an event. Events marking the anniversary possibly count, if they are notable in their own right as opposed to inheriting their significance from the event the mark. In this case there haven't even been any notable events - the Queen's diary is a fairly normal day at a school if I remember the news reports from earlier correctly. Events marking the anniversary are being held back to the annivserary of the coronation. Crispmuncher (talk) 18:08, 6 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Why "even" in "we didn't even post the tenth anniversary of 9/11"? 9/11 isn't the most notable event in the history of the world, and you can't automatically assume it's more notable than Queen Elizabeth II. It's like comparing apples and oranges. And besides, Diamond Jubilees for people, particularly heads of state, are a well-established concept, while anniversaries of disasters are just arbitrary occurrences with no established history. JIP | Talk 07:04, 6 February 2012 (UTC
I cite 9/11 as something clearly more prevalent in the public consciousness than this (yes, even here in the UK) whose anniversary we didn't mark, not as some gold standard of notability. I also refer you to my point above - passage of time since an event is not an event in itself. Crispmuncher (talk) 18:08, 6 February 2012 (UTC).)[reply]
You Brits must be well aware of 9/11, but I'm sure you're more aware of your own Queen. I would understand it if you claimed 9/11 itself was more important than the Queen's Diamond Jubilee (heck, I would feel the same way also), but, as you say, passage of time since an event is not an event in itself, I still fail to understand how an anniversary of 9/11 would be more notable than the Queen's Diamond Jubilee. JIP | Talk 21:02, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
oppose per formerIP[ and this doesnt have the global/commonwealth worth of Her Majesty the Empress of IndiaLihaas (talk) 02:59, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree, the accession is the most important bit, the coronation is just the ceremony to confirm the monarch as head of state via taking of the oath etc. and is not likely to be celebrated in any big way in the commonwealth, indeed it was not celebrated in the British Isle in 2003. --wintonian talk 10:48, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Question There is overwhelming consensus to post and the article is marked as "Ready". Why, after three days, has this still not been posted? 87.115.38.213 (talk) 21:29, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe no admin agrees that it's ITN material. --Golbez (talk) 21:36, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe, if that is the case, they should state their reasoning, rather than simply ignoring this consensus to post. Another theory, of course, is that no-one is looking at this page any more. There have been fewer than 15 edits on this page in the past 24 hours (this brief exchange notwithstanding). 87.115.38.213 (talk) 23:43, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Russian scientists pierce into Antarctica's Lake Vostok

Article: Vostok Lake (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Russian scientists from the Vostok station drill the longest ever ice core of 3,768 meters and reach subglacial Lake Vostok (pictured) isolated under the Antarctic ice shield. (Post)
News source(s): Russia Today, Washington Post, BBC, Guardian
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: notable event, after 20 years of drilling in severe conditions, the scientists have reached Lake Vostok, believed to be untouched for millenia Crnorizec (talk) 19:23, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support This is a huge development. The lake was the last major geographic discovery on Earth, they drilled the longest ever ice core, and the samples of water to be taken when frozen at the end of 2012 may bring discoveries in microbiology and paleolife. GreyHood Talk 19:31, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As per above. Very interesting for the reader and noteworthy due to the ice core being the longest ever and reaching the lake beneath. Get it up there. --109.155.78.55 (talk) 19:35, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. --bender235 (talk) 20:00, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, but with better blurb. Breaching Lake Vostok is an important event. However, the 20 years of drilling part is basically wrong / misleading. The first ice core drilled at Vostok was in 1970 (forty years ago), and there have been drill operations at the site most of the years since then. In 1990, they began the fifth long core at Vostok (dubbed 5G), which stopped being drilled in 1997 after achieving the record depth of 3623 m (which has been the world's longest ice core, until the decision to extend it). After an eight year break (the longest gap in drill operations at Vostok since drilling began) they decided to extend core 5G (now named 5G-1) to reach the lake, and that operation started in 2005. Personally, I'd just leave off the 20 years part, since they have either been drilling at the site 42 years, or on this extension for 8 years, but focusing on the 22 year history of hole 5G (including the 8 year hiatus) seems strange. Dragons flight (talk) 20:02, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support although I would prefer a change of emphasis. My thoughts on reading the blurb are "who cares about the ice core?", particularly "do we really need to wedge in the exact length of the core?" and "do we really need to name Vostock station when we give the location (Lake Vostock) elsewhere?"
There's only limited space in the blurb and it isn't a question of what can be wedged in, but what can be taken out and still put the story into context. For me there are two main points here: a) Lake Vostock has been reached and b) Lake Vostock has been isolated for however many million years. The reader can click through for anything else. Crispmuncher (talk) 21:02, 6 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
    • Added the word "isolated" to the blurb. The fact that it has been isolated for many million years would be more important if they find some life there, but that will be no earlier than the end of the year if ever. We'll have a chance to report it then. The ice core record is very important since it could extend the knowledge of paleoclimates etc. As for mentioning the Vostok Station, it just identifies the team and the location. GreyHood Talk 21:22, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Marked as ready. Nanobear (talk) 21:51, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. I suggest changing the photo tomorrow so that the new President of Finland will be on for 24 hours. --Tone 22:14, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 5

February 5, 2012 (2012-02-05) (Sunday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Disasters

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sport

[re-posted] Super Bowl XLVI

Article: Super Bowl XLVI (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The New York Giants defeat the New England Patriots to win Super Bowl XLVI. (Post)
News source(s): http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FBN_SUPER_BOWL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-02-05-22-13-05
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 - JuneGloom Talk 23:29, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't it surprising that the British paper the Guardian has one of those live feed pages for, in Doctorbuk's words, a sport "supported only by a minority of sports fans across the world, is US-centric as a subject, is US-centric in terms of article content, does not promote Wiki's world view, and is a non-notable event in the context of sporting headlines"? Is there any other non-British (or even European) sport they do this for? If anyone else opposes it will be as laughable as that dancing red M&M's. –HTD 00:17, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What sort of warped agenda are you promoting here? Nobody has opposed posting this when it becomes appropriate to do so: it is ITN/R, so no such objection would have any grounds anyway. One can only assume that your comment serves no purpose other than to be argumentative and to draw attention to an opinion that received no support a year ago. Most people would have got over one person's wind up by now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.186.77.50 (talk) 00:35, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
HTD I would suggest DNFTT and DNGAF. And who the hell is Doctorbuk??? --Nutthida (talk) 01:41, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This guy. And don't tell me I didn't warn you about the nonsensical opposes. Good luck. –HTD 02:31, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's completely unreasonable to base your opposition on that. These are separate nominations and separate issues and should be treated individually. As far as I can see, the Super Bowl is a far larger event that commands a much wider global interest than a lot of people outside - and even inside - the US seem to think. --Nutthida (talk) 02:19, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Once ITN/R is asserted you are implicitly asking us to consider the update: well, it's not ready. Try re-filing (under the correct date) once the result is known and the article has a substantive update. Crispmuncher (talk) 02:24, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
not ready because it finished literally seconds ago. And boy those Patriots-idiots stupid leaving him open tp SIT for the TD. But if they made the catch itd have been the greatest ever in in sports history!. (silly all-yankee game as it was...one of the worst combos to see at the superbowl. Anyways, Superbowl L = Cowboys vs. Texans, i said it here first)
Edit conflict my update ;(Lihaas (talk) 03:03, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(Yeah that missed catch was pretty epic - I appreciate close games in any sport, steam-rollers are boring, I would veto a steam-roller game for IT/N fufufufuf) I'm going to so wait rather than oppose because of updates, which are expected, to come in. --Nutthida (talk) 03:11, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
could haev been a hair-trigger from a flag too ;)Lihaas (talk) 04:11, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for my reasons quoted by the nominator. The sudden upsurge in British interest in this event is a curiosity, not proof of a trend. The sport does not feature on the broadcast media news, for one thing, and there has been no build up on the broadcast media, only on-line where there is no guarantee that the domestic audience really cares. Clearly this is not something for which Wikipedia's world wide audience would find notable, interesting or worthy of front page inclusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doktorbuk (talk • contribs)
  • Temporarily removed There is no game summary from what I can see. Once one is added, I will repost it. SpencerT♦C 03:16, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
WAIT There's more OPPOSE than SUPPORT, you can't repost it doktorb wordsdeeds 03:22, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't really concern me- I think we've posted Super Bowl results for the past 6 years (estimate?) and it's also on ITN/R. SpencerT♦C 03:26, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the note ate ITNR says usually doesnt say its ITNR to add it. I digressl , leave that for the article. Also couldbe interesting to note as in the post-game interview, that Eli did it at the stadium that Peyton "built".Lihaas (talk) 04:11, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Looks fine to me now. Posting. --Tone 10:28, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Finnish presidential election

Nominator's comments: Major event in Finnish politics. --JIP | Talk 18:54, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

its a stellar article compared to most (all?) elections from non-english speaking/commonwealth countries. Also marked eady.Lihaas (talk) 04:24, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 4

February 4, 2012 (2012-02-04) (Saturday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Disasters

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Veto on Syria Resolution

Article: 2011–2012 Syrian uprising (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Russia and China veto a U.N. resolution backing an Arab League plan to resolve the crisis in Syria. (Post)
News source(s): (U.N. News centre) (Reuters) (CNN) (NY Times) (BBC)
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Major diplomatic development in the supranational effort towards conflict resolution. --Choppish (talk) 20:58, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Homs

Article: Siege of Homs (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Following the withdrawal of Arab League monitors in Syria, civil unrest and artillery shelling causes over 200 deaths in Homs, according to demonstrators. (Post)
News source(s): Al Arabiya, Guardian, Al-Jazeera
Credits:

Article updated
The article is there, the update is extensive, however, on the top of the article, there are some tags that would need to be addressed. Support then. --Tone 12:47, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Try phrasing a "neutral" blurb for this. --bender235 (talk) 20:31, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Easily. Drop the word "regime", remove the word "heavy", remove the unneeded mention of the anniversary, remove unconfirmed claims. GreyHood Talk 21:13, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Agree it was a bit excessive. Had a go, but left the numbers as they seem to indicate the notability. Nightw 21:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
How in the world is "regime" a non-neutral word? Are you kidding me? --bender235 (talk) 21:30, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's got pretty negative connotations to most ears—see Loaded language#Examples. Nightw 21:36, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Even though this pseudo-NPOV "he said, she said" charade is ridiculous, for god's sake, then just mention that there have been hundreds of deaths, w/out attributing them to anyone. --bender235 (talk) 21:30, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Let's have some suggested or even BOLD amendments, rather than just opposing on the nature of the blurb. Nightw 21:36, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Suggestion: "Syrian forces clash with rebels in the city of Homs, as opposition media claim 200 dead and 500 injured." Shrigley (talk) 21:53, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Would like to see mention of the deaths via bombardment as well as the UN veto. Time constraints today preclude my work on the blurb, but this story should be represented on ITN, in my view. Jusdafax 21:47, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, alternative blurb, since (for some reason) we did not post the Arab League monitors withdrawal:
Less than a week after the Arab League suspended its monitoring mission in Syria, the ongoing civil unrest intensifies, as reportedly 400 people were killed in clashes between regime forces and rebels in the city of Homs. --bender235 (talk) 21:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Well, alot of discussion have taken place here. First, what is unneutral is to say that the deaths were in clashes between the two sides, because neither the regime nor the opposition have said that such a thing happened, i think that we are assuming neutrality rather than trying to be really neutral. If you want the actual two sides views, the opposition says that 400 people were killed by a heavy shelling launched by the Syrian army, and the regime says that 400 people (Actually he didn't mention a number, but whatever) were killed in an armed bands operations in Homs, that is all. Second, from my view, there is difference between the blurb itself being unneutral (For example, saying revolution not protests, or martyrs not deaths) and the case it is showing just a one-side view, because the blurb can be neutral in showing the opposition view even if it didn't mention the other side view, in addition to the fact that the sentence is too short to mention two views (At the time of 2011 Damascus bombings, the view of the opposition for the hand of the regime in what happened were not mentioned in the main page news section). So, i think the current blurb is good, and mentioning the number of deaths is very important (note that 200 is the least number mentioned by all agencies, even the russian), and the clashes sentence is far away from true --aad_Dira (talk) 00:21, 5 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
tweaked blurb trying to merge 2 items, if its too long we can remove the monitors birt. also made npov with the CLAIM of 200+ deathsLihaas (talk) 02:43, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
NO thats what DYK is for, itn is for highlighting whats IN THE NEWS. Minor articles have often times been posted.Lihaas (talk) 03:37, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please note that the problem of the article is solved now, because a new article has been created for the massacre, and we can link the blurb to it directly. Personally, i don't see a big need for mentioning what is related to the monitors. Also, what is the point of "civil unrest" part? The sentence in general sounds like a 200 people have died surprisingly in an obscure conditions, why don't we say simply that an artillery shelling on the city of Homs by the Syrian forces caused 200 deaths and stop circling around it? It is simple, all news agencies tells you in the bold font: "The Syrian regime has killed 200 people in Homs". Remember WP:UNDUE, if the media didn't give much attention to the regime story of the armed bands, we don't have to mention it, because it is not notable, what is notable rather is the 200 deaths caused by the REGIME story, it is neutral and notable and we can say it simply --aad_Dira (talk) 05:32, 5 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Agree that civil unrest has no place in the blurb, neither does "international media." It just sounds awkward. WikifanBe nice 06:17, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
becuase that is POBV. its a CLAIM by the opposition (no bias there?) and the international media who cant verify it because there is a media blackout and they rely on claims. And we dont credence to waht the media gives attention to or not because this is NOTNEWS. Its clear from the statements above that this is POV. Futhermore, the govt denies it happened (or at least via shelling()Lihaas (talk) 06:24, 5 February 2012 (UTC) )[reply]
What is the relation between WP:NOTNEWS and WP:UNDUE? The news agencies is simply the primary source of news articles on Wikipedia, so it does not require alot of thinking to conclude that what is notable and unnotable depends on it. You guys sounds like trying to make the things neutral but you don't know how to do that, so you just try to change things that don't need to be changed. Yes, the regime has shelled Homs and killed 200 people, there is nothing unneutral here, this is the opposition story and this is what was the top news in the international newspapers of 4th February. If you want to tell the regime story, so shall it be, but don't change the main story told by all worldwide media and invent Wikipedia very own story of what happened in Syria yesterday --aad_Dira (talk) 07:05, 5 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Your statements are showing more of a bias each time. FIRST you say that WP should not "invent" stories, whoich is true, but the invention is being made on behalf of 1 side and unverified (not to mention dubious). WP is not a weblog/social media (by intention anyways). if as you say its the primary source here then thats explicitly frowned upon as biased. (can bt cited but needs to be backed elsewhere). notability does NOT depend whatsoever on what the news agencies report. there is a lot of garbage, even if RS, that is not notable enough to be on here. Perhaps Wikinews is better using the logic behind the arguement here. Thereis no affirmation of shelling other than the opposition claim (to bolder their view/garner support of oppression) and the media that have repeatedly said reports cannot be confirmed as they are not present. to present it we need BOTH stories, not seperate stories.Lihaas (talk) 08:10, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, i am biased to the revolution, i support the revolution, there is no reason for me to hide this fact, also you are biased against the revolution, it is clear that you are Shia Muslim, but all of these facts does not prevent any of us from the right of discussing things out here. When we publish the opposition view of events on Wikipedia we does not invent things, but we simply tells what the opposition said, but when we invent a new thing that neither the regime nor the opposition said like that the current blurb is a different thing. And, from what you said, can i understand that Reuters, BBC, France24, CNN, Al-Jazeera, Al-Arabiya, Russia today, The Guardian, Sky-news and Fox-news top page news of the day was all unnotable? Are you kidding or what? As i said before, mention the regime view if you want, i don't care, but don't try to change the fact the Syrian army has shelled Homs and killed 200 people, this MUST be mentioned in the blurb. I don't know why you just wanna make the discussion longer and longer --aad_Dira (talk) 08:44, 5 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
thats fine but youve completely discredited yourself with an admission of bias. Furthermore, if it is "clear" that i am a Shia can you prove it? Dont resort to personal attacks but comment on content. Wehtehr im a Shia a or notis irrelevant, and thats a presumption to say so!Lihaas (talk) 04:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Okay, here is a new proposal (Although, i don't see why it is biased; Civil unrest, Alleged, according to the international media. Please clarify your point):
An artillery shelling according to the Syrian opposition and armed bands attacks according to the regime causes 200 deaths and and 500 injured in the city of Homs.
So, is anyone planning to tell me why is it biased or should i just post it as ready? --aad_Dira (talk) 14:08, 5 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As Greyhood already said, "regime" is a negative word for "government", so it should be avoided. And if the article describes only the alleged shelling, and not the rebels' attacks, as the wikilinks suggest, then it is not neutral. If it covers both, then wikilink like this: [[Homs Bombardment (2012)|cause 200 deaths]]. "Bands" is not really idiomatic; it sounds like it could almost be "bandits", and could be any side. "Rebel attacks" would be clearer. Also, qualify the numbers with something like "reportedly". Shrigley (talk) 15:43, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
While we're on it, "artillery shelling" is such a negative word, let's name it "shower of confetti". Wouldn't that be something? Point is, sometimes you call a spade a spade. --bender235 (talk) 21:38, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You're intentionally missing the point, bender235. Why do I keep getting the feeling that you're somehow trying to push a political agenda every time you comment on an ITN item? JimSukwutput 00:18, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, i agree with bender actually, i see that as i said before, you guys want to be neutral, but you don't know how, so you are just trying to change everything around on the hope of representing the regime point of view, although many thing don't need to be changed. Anyway, Shrigley please write a suitable blurb yourself, because it seems that it is hard for me, as a supporter of the revolution, to realize your criteria of neutrality here, and please do that as soon as possible because two days have passed already after the event --aad_Dira (talk) 02:56, 6 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
in reply to bender, as opposed to the now irrelevant user who blatantly said hes biased AND showed it, the issue is not about the artielley oshelling or not its about the fact that its UNVERIFIABLE going SOLELY on the credence of 1-side to the conflict .Lihaas (talk) 04:31, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So? What is the result do you need to reach to? We remove the whole sentence and write that an armed terrorist bands have attacked Homs and killed 200 people although some liar people calling themselves opposition claims that it was done by the army? --aad_Dira (talk) 05:10, 6 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Lihaas, look at the pictures from Homs. The city essentially looks like Misrata a couple of months ago. Do you really believe the Syrian people (or "rebels", as they are refered to here; I wonder why we haven't adopted "terrorists" yet) are staging this? How would they be able to? This pseudo-"he said, she said"-journalism thingy you guys are trying is pointless. It kinda reminds of the early days of the Iraq War, when Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf constantly assured the media that there were no Allied forces in Iraq, saying that in front of TV camera with American tanks tracking in on him in the background. Essentially that's what Assad is saying: "there is no uprising!" "then why's the Army all over the country, killing people?" "all foreign terrorists!" And now we are supposed to add this to Wikipedia, just because of NPOV? Guys, at some point, you have to use your own eyes. --bender235 (talk) 12:23, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
pull it ASAP the blurb is hidepusly pov and unverified with the due caveat. At any rate, the timer is not overdue with the finland posting.Lihaas (talk) 06:06, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hideously POV? There was a military operation. During that time, 200 people were killed. This seems rather undisputed, at least as the article puts it. Of course, now that you put up that disputed tag, it's hard to judge what's undisputed. But, this pushing off Syria until the next event pattern is starting to get a bit annoying. There have been so many events related to Syria over the past month that are of great enough significance to be on ITN. Each time, something derails it. Let's not ruin this again. -- tariqabjotu 06:20, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is no reason for pulling, please give a reasons before doing something. Look at this [44], and what i undid here [45], i consider this is as a direct vandalism --aad_Dira (talk) 06:32, 6 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Again, no reasons at all for pulling. Please indicate the parts that were unneutral in the sentence, because i don't know even what are you talking about --aad_Dira (talk) 06:48, 6 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
  • Comment I agree, pull was premature and now another 50 have been killed. Poor grammar and sentence structure is not sufficient reasoning for not posting. IMO, editors need to stop treating this place like their own personal soapbox. editors should consider devoting more time improving the article rather than wasting time here defending their bias. WikifanBe nice 09:40, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • So, what no?? The only reason introduced so far for pulling is POV, without any further details, how are we supposed to fix something we don't even know what is it? --aad_Dira (talk) 11:58, 6 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
  • Agreed with Lihaas (one of those rare moments). The blurb is hideously POV, and the chorus of editors (including some veterans who should know better) defending the obvious POV is even more hideous. Get a grip on yourselves. JimSukwutput 22:16, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Are you talking about the blurb that was actually put up, or the one that was suggested here? Because I didn't put up any of the blurbs suggested here. -- tariqabjotu 22:43, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, I did not realize that you put up a different blurb. I was referring to the one being discussed above. JimSukwutput 22:51, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted The POV tag is gone, and has been for awhile. During that downtime, few changes were made. So, I'm not going to keep holding the item back. And I'm unlikely to personally do anything about it if someone happens to have the urge to slap the tag back on now that the item is back on the Main Page. -- tariqabjotu 22:43, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can the blurb be changed to "Syrian opposition leaders claim". They are hardly a credible source and have every reason to exaggerate death tolls.--Metallurgist (talk) 17:41, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 3

February 3, 2012 (2012-02-03) (Friday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters

Law and crime

Politics

Sport

Lance Armstrong Investigation Dropped

Article: No article specified
Blurb: ​ US Federal prosecutors drop an investigation of cycling champion Lance Armstrong for alleged use of performance enhancing substances. (Post)
News source(s): (USA Today)
Credits:

 --Johnsemlak (talk) 05:56, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support, the end (and arguably largest development) in one of the biggest stories/scandals to emerge from cycling, which is a global sport. Lance Armstrong is a globally-recognisable name. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 11:01, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • So...nothing happened...? Nightw 11:16, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I believe this is notable because it represents the end of the US federal involvement in any investigations into LA's alleged doping. This is key because the federal government has powers unavailable to the press and to sporting authorities and there was a significant possibility that such a Federal investigation would shed light that 15 years of muckraking by the media has failed to uncover. It is now far more likely with this federal investigation behind him that Armstrong will remain officially clear of doping despite widespread belief that he is guilty.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:26, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The first Support post says it's the end of the story. No way. The rest of the cycling world is unlikely to accept what a US inquiry says about a US cyclist. Would the dropping of a Spanish government enquiry remove all doubts about Alberto Contador? The fact that no reasons were given for dropping the investigation won't help either. Note that I'm not declaring any opinion about Armstrong and drugs. I have no idea on that. I'm just commenting on the process. I see it as one more step in the saga. Not sure if that makes this particular event important across the world. HiLo48 (talk) 19:04, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
obvious oppose case is DROPPED (ie- no conviction) and its a minor domestic issue. If the issue was at CAS with repercussions for the world of sport it would be a different issue.Lihaas (talk) 02:45, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Calling this a 'minor domestic issue' is severely warped. Had a federal investigation uncovered new evidence it would have been of significant interest throughout the cycling world, and Armstrong's 7 TdF titles would have been in question.--Johnsemlak (talk) 08:27, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
its just as "warped" to presume assrepercusions. nothing at play and no global note.Lihaas (talk) 10:00, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It actually took 15½ hours! HiLo48 (talk) 01:37, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, whenever you try to predict the news, you always run into an unpredictable cycle. --FormerIP (talk) 01:54, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Efraín Ríos Montt

Article: Efraín Ríos Montt (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Efraín Ríos Montt and three former generals are to face trial for genocide and crimes against humanity in Guatamala. (Post)
Credits:

Article updated

Kuwait election

Article: Kuwaiti parliamentary election, 2012 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Sunni opposition parties[which?] win an absolute majority in the Kuwaiti parliamentary election. (Post)
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Cambodia trial

Isn't this an extension of the original sentence? Nightw 11:20, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Now that I look, we've posted the original verdict back in 2010 already. That probably makes the new one less ITN-material... --Tone 11:45, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
strong support its not just upheld its EXTENDED on appeal. that is far more notable.Lihaas (talk) 11:49, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
suggested blurb: Former Khmer Rouge jailer Kang Kek Iew has his sentence extended to life in prison on his appeal by a UN tribunal.Lihaas (talk) 01:43, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 2

February 2, 2012 (2012-02-02) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics

Sports

[Posted] Ferry with hundreds aboard sinks

Article: MV Rabaul Queen (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The passenger ferry MV Rabaul Queen sinks off the coast of Papua New Guinea, with the bodies of four victims recovered, and over 100 people still missing. (Post)
News source(s): [47]
markign ready. Good update of several paras and timer is red.Lihaas (talk) 02:46, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Best-selling Nobel laureate dies

Article: Wisława Szymborska (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Wisława Szymborska (pictured), recipient of the 1996 Nobel Prize in Literature, dies at her home in Kraków. (Post)
News source(s): [48]
Article updated
Posting. Feel free to add the photo as well. --Tone 09:35, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

La Gioconda ; The Prado copy (Mona Lisa)

Article: Mona Lisa#Prado copy (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A copy of the Mona Lisa, which was likely painted by an apprentice of Leonardo da Vinci, is discovered and restored by Museo del Prado. (Post)
News source(s): [49]
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: First discovery of Mona Lisa copy which have taken by De Vinci student, maybe painted her behind De Vinci. Also a picture would be nice File:The Joconde by a student of Leonardo da Vinci.png 
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 11:39, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It was updated with the necessary information.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 12:47, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

53 Dead in Japan Snow Storm

Article: List of extreme weather events#2012 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 53 people die and 600 are injured in a snow storm that hit western Japan. (Post)
News source(s): [50], [51]
Credits:

Article needs updating

 Crnorizec (talk) 01:04, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

add ukraine and the ship rescue in turkeyLihaas (talk) 02:14, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
53 dead in a snow storm is just about enough for me, and the number is likely to grow Crnorizec (talk) 03:12, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
70+ in ukraine
At any rate the article is tagged and tghe update is poorLihaas (talk) 06:48, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
22-25 deaths in Romania [52] - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 08:55, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment — As has been mentioned above, the European cold spell has claimed more lives and certainly has been "in the news" far more than the Japanese one. Given the state of the article, I cannot support, but will not oppose at this stage. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 20:26, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
update over 200 dead (mostly homeless in Ukraine) and state of emergency in Bosnia with forecasts for a worsening cold spell. Al Jazeera reports that gas supplies are also limited to demand decrease, worsening the situation. Article needs an update.Lihaas (talk) 02:34, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

February 1

February 1, 2012 (2012-02-01) (Wednesday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sport

Death of Angelo Dundee

Article: Angelo Dundee (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Boxing trainer Angelo Dundee dies at 90. (Post)
News source(s): [53]
Credits:
oppose Corenlius was far more notable in more than his area.Lihaas (talk) 06:50, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Facebook's record setting IPO

Article: Facebook (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Facebook's initial public offering is set at USD$5 billion, a record for an internet company. (Post)
News source(s): [54]
Credits:
not a chance this goes near itn. no subscriptions, no date of listing. only a confirmed intention.Lihaas (talk) 01:51, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Egypt football match violences

At least 40 people were killed at a football game in Egypt.[55] - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 19:18, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done - please improve - Port Said football match disaster - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 19:28, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is not DYK... I'll modify that. Posting. --Tone 22:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Kindly check for an updae instead of just the "support" as consensus is not vote counting. There is not a word on the incident itself, just background, match details and reactions (and casualties). PULL it asap!Lihaas (talk) 07:06, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Suprised this is on the frontpage already, as quality wise, the article is a pile of shite. Lugnuts (talk) 10:00, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That happens when the article receives loads of attention after appearing on the Main page. When I posted it, it was quite ok. --Tone 10:27, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Since I was involved in supporting the article for ITN and expanding the article itself, I have taken an interest in this situation and cleaned it up somewhat, as well as restored deleted material. Also interesting to note that people are now dying in protests concerning the event. Jusdafax 07:25, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
UPDATE: I have further cleaned up the article. In my view it needs further work, but since the article is subject to POV editors and is a bit of a "hot potato", if interested parties could keep an eye on it for the next day or two, I'd be much obliged. Jusdafax 10:04, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Don Cornelius

I would like to suggest that this be included in ITN. He was important in his field, a groundbreaker (first African-American to own a nationally syndicated show), internationally recognized/honored, and his was a sudden and tragic death. Rhodesisland (talk) 22:08, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

obvious support came to nom myself. more important than other deaths weve postedLihaas (talk) 01:49, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support I agree he was a important figure in the history of modern music. My main concern is that two other very significant people, Wisława Szymborska and Angelo Dundee also died today. Can all three death posts be posted at the same time? If not I think Szymborska and Dundee should be listed first (one a literature Novel Prize winner and the other one probably the most well-known and influential trainer in boxing history) Secret account 03:47, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
c ome one, he was far more infleuntial thyan the latter 2.Lihaas (talk) 06:49, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly oppose for now This may be a justifiable nomination, but we must have some standards as to the quality of what is written on this page. This nomination is rubbish. It fails to follow almost any of the instructions at the top of the page. It seems it's going to be of interest to almost exclusively American readers (I AM guessing here, for obvious reasons), which can be OK, but only if some effort is made to explain to readers who the hell this is, and we have no such explanation. Now, Don Cornelius may be very important, but without some greater effort by those nominating him here, he will miss out. Let's PLEASE raise our standards here. HiLo48 (talk) 08:07, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
and some chick who died of dementia earlier as well as some idiot who had his knighthood revoked is more notable? Please comment on the merits of this. He pioneered change and crossed racial barriers in an arguably heavily racist atmosphere. Akin to Jackie Robinson in the field.
Article is adequately updated on his death. marking readyLihaas (talk) 10:05, 2 February 2012 (UTC)\[reply]
You really have completely misread or missed the point of my post. Do try again. (HINT: I did NOT say he was not notable!) And I say again "Let's PLEASE raise our standards here." And again, who the hell was he?!!!!!!!!!!!!! HiLo48 (talk) 10:16, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If only there was a link you could click. What is this, an internet? --Golbez (talk) 15:05, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I would never nominate a TV or whatever star unknown outside my country without explaining why I was listing him or her, in a few sentences, not just a handful of vague words. Don't make the readers do all the work. Present a case. AND WHY ARE WE STILL NOT USING THE CORRECT STRUCTURE FOR THIS NOMINATION? Does anybody here actually READ AND THINK ABOUT (not just react to) what others post?
Except they did explain. Unless this was added after, it reads: "Important in his field", "first African American to own a nationally syndicated show", "internationally recognized." Did you not see it because it wasn't in all caps and bold? --Golbez (talk) 23:00, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A little harsh there, HiLo48. I felt the article was updated enough for the nomination, put my rational for thinking he was important/famous enough for inclusion, and politely made the nomination for listing. Sorry if I didn't follow the "correct structure"; as it's my first time nominating, I didn't realize there was such a strict process to follow. But you're comments were rather insulting and certainly put me off wanting to ever nominate again. Maybe I'm being a bit sensitive, but you're comments did smart a bit. Not sure if I care to come back; thanks. Rhodesisland (talk) 03:24, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Look. There are very obvious, very clear instructions at the top of the page. I make no apology for asking that they be followed, even by new editors once they have had them pointed out to them. But even worse was the seeming support you received from very experienced editors who also could have helped, but didn't seem to care about the rules, just wanting to attack me. I would have helped, because I suspect this is a valid nomination, but being non-American have no idea who this person even is. You have been badly let down by fellow American, experienced editors who could have made this work, but preferred a fight. HiLo48 (talk) 07:07, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - HiLo, you really need to moderate your rhetoric here. Multiple exclamation points and bolded, all caps comments are not conducive to collaborative editing. I'm going to ask you, with all the due respect one multiple contributor deserves from another, to stand down if you cannot control your temper tantrums and stop biting newcomers here, no matter how much you think they deserve it. We need more people helping at ITN and Wikipedia in general, not less. Cannot you at least strike out or refactor your bluster above? And if not, would an admin take a look at issuing a warning or block if HiLo persists? It seems to me we have to draw a line somewhere. Jusdafax 07:48, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that you didn't explictly attack this newbie, but you're response was a bit extreme. If you feel the other experienced editors were striking back at you, perhaps there's some bad blood already there over other times you've been a bit harsh?
for the record it seems like a case of the pot calling the kettle black as elucidated by the fact that the nom WAS clarified with the comment that "could someone explain who he was." well to that must be said: "does anybody here really carefully read what others have written" + the fact that saying "did not explicitly attack" is directly contradicted by "Look. There are very obvious, very clear instructions at the top of the page. I make no apology for asking that they be followed, even by new editors"Lihaas (talk) 18:31, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • As advised, I've looked at the template to see how I should have gone about the nomination; but I quickly got lost. Personally, I think it is too complex and uses too many of the mark up symbols and makes it confusing for newbies to use. When I have another nomination, I will take the time to try it, but can't promise it'll be "correct".Rhodesisland (talk) 22:38, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
good to see you bakc. give it a go and /or ask for help.
Incidentally HiLo, please take the time to practice what you peach and do read what it says for the nom format: "Preferably use the template... "Lihaas (talk) 01:47, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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