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Bert Trautmann

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The goalkeeper who broke his neck in the cup final and carried on playing. I've been developing this article for a while with a view to a future FAC nomination, but have now hit a certain level of writers' block. I'm looking for comments with a view to FAC. I'm aware I'll need an image, I have a certain one in mind but don't currently have access to a scanner. Oldelpaso (talk) 09:43, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment beware of POV/hagiographising. Esp with section headings: "Golden years with Manchester City" - says who? But overall, it's looking good. You seem to be covering the right stuff and with the addition of some images, isn't far off a bid to FAC. --Dweller (talk) 12:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- PS Get a cite asap or remove (hide?) the comment about the marriage breakdown. --Dweller (talk) 12:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - I've cited it and made clear that the source is Trautmann himself. Oldelpaso (talk) 19:03, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrfisch comments: Interesting article on someone I had actually heard of (sadly I am not into football). I aree with Dweller's comments, although it looks pretty good otherwise, so most of my suggestions will be fairly nit-picky:

Should German phrases be translated, for example Blau und Weisse means "Blue and White"?
- The MoS doesn't specify. As it is a proper noun I am unsure.
I thnk this should be "which" not "who" as the subject of the phrase is the regiment though a station far behind the front line resulted in boredom for his regiment, who resorted to sports and practical jokes to pass the time.
- I frequently use "which" where I shouldn't, so this is probably a result of overcompensation. Changed.
I would identify Dnipropetrovsk as being in Ukraine - provide context for the reader - see WP:PCR
Over winter hit and run attacks on supply routes were the main focus,... who was doing these attacks - the Germans or the Soviets? Please also add years (and months if possible) for events like his withdrawal from the Russian Front or transfer to France.
- Clarified the hit and run attacks. From my sources it is unclear whether he was withdrawn from the Eastern Front in 1943 or 1944.
This needs a ref and is a bit confusing as the reader does not yet know he goes to France next He was captured by the Russians and later the French Resistance, but escaped both times.
- Moved further down and cited.
Explain what B and C prisoners were in category "C" prisoners. He was soon downgraded to "B" status.. Also waht does this mean (know it has something to do with where he stayed) Trautmann continued to be barracked at away matches
- Clarified the categories. It appears that the "to shout at or jeer" meaning of barracked is peculiar to British English, and after looking it up it seems it means the opposite in Australian English, so I've rephrased it.
A bit POV - at least needs a cite Two days later Trautmann stepped out onto the Wembley pitch for the match he would be remembered for above all others.
- One of those "definitely true but doesn't have an explicit cite" phrases - perhaps 90% of articles written about him centre on that match. Rephrased and cited.
I am not a football fan, this sounds like three goals were scored (one each sentence) The previous year nerves had contributed to the opposition scoring an early goal. The City team were more settled on this occasion, scoring an early goal themselves, a left footed strike by Joe Hayes. Birmingham equalised on 14 minutes. but it has to be two goals as the score was equal, right?
- The first sentence refers to the previous cup final described in the preceding paragraph. It doesn't seem ambiguous to me, but then I did write it...
Awkward sentence: Trautmann excelled at shot-stopping, particularly penalties, of which he saved 60% of those he faced over the course of his career. Perhaps Trautmann excelled at shot-stopping, particularly penalties, saveing 60% of those he faced over the course of his career.
- That's me abusing "which" again, changed to your improved wording.
I think this could use a copyedit, can also try reading it out loud - watch out for POV and peacock language - see WP:NPOV and WP:PEACOCK
I think refs need to be consistent - put a space after p and before page numbers

Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:12, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- Thanks to both of you for your comments. Oldelpaso (talk) 19:03, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]