Wikipedia:Peer review/British Bangladeshi/archive1

British Bangladeshi

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for July 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because, I think it is a very good article which contains many information, probably enough needed for this type of subject. It is about Bangladeshis living abroad in the United Kingdom, and I would like to request users to contribute by looking for any mistakes or any suggestions needed to help improve the article so it can be reviewed to as a Good article or Featured article. Many phrases or words are structured in a non-encyclopedia way, mainly in the history section, so that will be needed reviewing as said by Kabir. Thankyou very much.

Thanks, M Miah 23:30, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Round one

Yes, sure. But, it won't be a GA review, and I'm still pretty convinced that submitting it to a peer review (process described in WP:PR) would have brought better results. Now for the first round of reviews:

• A lot many peacock terms (example: "a place of emerald green rice fields and dense tea gardens on the country’s eastern border" or "The buildings rise elegantly above the palm trees, their marble sun terraces affording breathtaking views").
• Tone of voice suited more to a newspaper commentary than a neutral encyclopedia (example: "Bangladeshi men toiled away as cooks, waiters and mechanics" or "Fanned by local mullahs and maulvis, their anger, mirroring the rise of fundamentalism in Bangladesh itself, turned them into more ardent Muslims").
• Please, consider remove links in headers or subheaders (example: "Causes of Immigration"), bold type for statistics (example: "100,000 visitors"), empty sections (example: "Notable British Bangladeshis"), and article links in the "See also" section that aren't related to an understanding to the article, but hasn't already been linked in the body of the article (example: "List of British Asian people" or "Altab Ali").
• Also consider reducing overuse of images (example: Image:Papierosa 1 ubt 0069.jpeg). In fact the image layout is pretty cumbersome on the article. May be you can consider using the standard size (no "...px" business) and lining them in the right side (no "left" business).
• May be you also can consider reorganizing the article a bit. Like:

• "Gangs and violence" goes to the bottom of the culture section.
• The "Finance" and "Employment" sections can merge into an "Economy" section, with employment coming first.
• The "High smoking rates" section obviously should merge into the "Health" section, and it should also incorporate the Begum Syndrome part
• The final paragraph in the "Housing condition" section looks very out of place.
• You should be moving the "List of British Bangladeshis" down to the "See also" section.

• The lead section should be a summary of the whole article, covering all the main points and information.

Sorry, that I couldn't be more comprehensive for this round. But, I promise come back to make more observations. I hope this round was useful to you. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 16:22, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I will get started on that list in a while, thanks a lot! M Miah 09:26, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

•  Done Just got started on the simple things, started getting rid of the bold writings and minimizing the size of the images so it fits correctly to the page.
•  Done Created a new sub-section economics, moved business, finance, housing and employment to it.

Good job there. Though I'd say from my experience that it's best to reorganize of sections first, followed by a thorough copy edit, and finally rewriting lead section. Usually it works the best. But, of course, everyone should have their own way of doing things. If you need a hand in editing the copy, may be you can get one of these fantastic people to help you (you'll have write to them individually though as the project is now defunct). Here's an essay on the perfect article. Take a look. Good luck. I hope to come back in a day or two. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 15:49, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

•  Done High smoking rates into Health, not really sure whether 'Begum Syndrome' part should go there, it was part of history?
•  Doing... Will work on the voice tone (not sure how to make it sound more 'encyclopediac' from those), and I will try sort those out, thanks for the tip. M Miah (talk) 20:57, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

• I've got these quotes summarizing how Sylhetis are seen differently and that, but I do not know where to put it all, History? Culture? or Religion?: There has always been rivalry between Bangladeshis from the mainly rural and peripheral Sylhet and those hailing from the major metropolitan areas like Dhaka and Chittagong. Sylhetis are usually stereotyped as being uneducated and cliquish for instance preferring their children to marry within the Sylheti community. They are not considered [improper] Bangladeshis by many non-Sylheti Bangladeshis. Sylhetis are fiercely protective of their own language, family-orientated community culture and conservative practice of Islam. [1]
• Just moved it into the Culture section. M Miah (talk) 22:16, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

 Done Combined the Bengali and Sylheti heritage clash information into culture with language information as well. M Miah (talk) 16:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

 Done Fixed the tone of voice in most of the areas, if there are some concerns please note them down. Thanks. M Miah (talk) 18:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Round two

Here's some more observations:

• Some parts of the article seems to be have come directly from the sources, with the language intact. This is in conflict with Wikipedia copyright policies (example: "Local residents raged hard, forming action committees and youth front such as the Bangladesh Youth Movement, but conditions if anything, became even worse in the course of the decade.").  Done (edited many sections, if there are any left, please say:))
• You can't use a self published source as a reference (example: Taj Stores). It won't hold up to a scrutiny.  Done
• Citations don't conform to Wikipedia citation formats. It can become a serious concern when put to GA/FA review.  Done
• "Racial attack" is not neutral. Consider changing it to "Racial violence" or "Racial conflict".  Done
• As far as I know, British Bangladeshi politics features elected representatives and public officials from the community, as well as close ties to Bangladesh politics. This should be part of the article to make it comprehensive.
• British Bangladeshis were pretty active in Bangladesh Liberation War. This should be an important part in the history section.
• There are more observations about the organization/layout:
  • The section header "Statistics" looks a bit awkward. May be you'd like to change it to "Society", with the population distribution gone to a separate section titled "Demography". The "Culture" section should follow the "Society" section, though the "Sylheti and Bengali heritage" sub-section, retitled as "Community" or something, would probably better fit the "Demography" section.  Done
  • The "Islamic and secular politics" sub-section would probably better fit the "Religion" section, following the "Islamic organizations" sub-section".  Done
  • The Begum Syndrome is a metal health issue, and should therefore be a part of the "Health" section. There has been reports of another anxiety disorder reported in the past concerning a large number of British Bangladeshi men seeking medical help for their genital size. I remember it termed as the Bangladesh Syndrome. That can follow the Begum Syndrome.
  • Image clutter is still overwhelming. In the past there have been long discussions on how Wikiepedia is not a picturebook. Though it's not a serious concern, but large number of reviewers probably would want to reduce the clutter.  Done

I see a lot of improvement already. Keep the good work going. I'll come back in a day or two. Like Ragib, I believe this article shows very good promise to become an FA soon. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 02:36, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I rearranged the sections as requested, but I am not sure whether it was supposed be like that (society), please correct it if there are any problems to it. M Miah (talk) 16:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

You may want to take a look at some of the best quality ethnic group articles - Polish minority in the Czech Republic, Amish and Banat Bulgarians would be most relevant; , Iranian peoples, Pashtun people and Tamil people have been judged as the best. You'll notice that there is no cast-in-stone layout to follow, apart from the fact that smaller pieces have to fit seamlessly into the whole, and all the important areas need to be covered, reliably and neutrally, without commentary or making claims, unless it's made or backed by acceptable sources. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 08:27, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I have rearranged the sections again, placed Culture > Community, Language and Celebrations, Society > Gang, Education and Health, I hope looks alright there now. Moshin (talk) 14:21, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

• Now I need to sort out the references, and find any news articles based on British Bangladeshis in politics, plus the Curry Business and Money Exchange fiasco which were reported in the news recently. Moshin (talk) 14:31, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Round three

The organization looks fabulous now. There's a whole article here on the money transfer fiasco, see First Solution Money Transfer. Also check Royal Bengal Airline. You'll find it interesting. Now for more observations:

• Please, use citation templates. It is imperative for good articles.
• The stuff on Taj Stores looks pretty much like advertisement, with bits like "Taj Stores has a long tradition in serving the local community of London with only the finest quality seasonal produce" and "It offers people with huge selections of freshly prepared food products from the world palate". On top of that, these stuff is sourced from a self published source. Both stand in violation of policies.  Done
• London Review of Books is not a health or sociology expert. You don't have keep it's commentary intact as whole. If the Begum Syndrome is related to "internalisation of the women’s depleted resources and cramped dwellings", there is no need to force it onto racial violence just because the sufferers were mothers of disenfranchised youth. It shows non-neutrality. Please, consider moving it to the health section.  Done
• There is still much copy-pasting evident in the article. These not only represent copyright violation (you can use the information and interpretations, not the exact phrasing), but also has become an impediment to an encyclopedic tone of voice (as newspapers make a business out of creating sensations, they can't afford to be neutral). Here are a few examples, though I am sure there's more, much more:
  • "Young people in the area were beginning to distance themselves from their parents, whom they had come to see as passive." (copied from [2])  Done
  • "It was the murder of Altab Ali that was the trigger for the first significant political organisation against racism." (copied from [3])  Done
  • "In the predominantly Bengali neighborhood around the mosque, you'll find bagel shops alongside curry houses." (copied from [4], notice the style of referring to the reader directly)  Done
  • "With recession even these jobs became scarce for the Bangladeshis. Garment manufacturing was outsourced to home-workers, many of them women, who were invisible to trade-union officials seeking to root out exploitation." (copied from [5])  Done
  • "Brick Lane will be pedestrianised throughout the day and will play host to al-fresco dining, street stalls and more entertainment." (copied from [6], notice the use of future tense)  Done
• There is still information missing on the community's involvement in the Bangladesh Liberation War. Without that the history section can hardly be comprehensive. I remember that the UK High Commission of Pakistan was the first to defect to Bangladesh in 1971, and Sheikh Mujibur Rahman was sent to London upon release from his Pakistani jail. (could'nt find any sources regarding on that, but still looking.) M Miah (talk) 18:35, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
• Also missing is information on UK branches of Bangladesh political parties and elected representatives of Bangladeshi-origin in the UK.  Done

I am already feeling guilty for posting so many comments, because I know how mush hard work it leads to. But, for me using a second or even a third pair of eyes always worked. In fact, I am planning to take my recent good work — Sitakunda Upazila — to a third round of peer review (and, on top of that, it has gone through two rounds of copyedit and two rounds of GA review). Keep the good work going. The Bangladesh WikiProject really needs more GAs and FAs. Cheers. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 19:06, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Edited and re-phrased many parts of the article, but there are some still needed to be done on Islamic and secular section, and some parts of the history. M Miah (talk) 23:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

And, Taj Stores, too. That part looks dreadful. And, oh, before I forget again - I like your new username very much. One of my friends took a look at what I was doing last night and asked who is this "mama mia!" guy. And, she took a look at the article and went "oh, my god". Nice work. While the current work is being reworked, may be you can start looking for additional stuff that are missing, like, what life does the Hindus have, how far has the community assimilated culturally, what is the dynamics with non-Bangladeshi Bengalis... and so on. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 03:46, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

- (commented on your talk page). M Miah (talk) 10:21, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Copyright concerns has been raised at the article talk page. Please, check. (Is there any reason why you can't see the Begum Syndrome as an health issue?) Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 07:49, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I am thinking of adding info's, of when British Bangladeshis made it to the headlines, such as the Curry Business disaster recently[7][8][9], The events of Curry Awards, which were won mainly by Bangladeshis, which shows their achievements[10] and ofcourse the First Solution Money Transfer disaster[11][12][13][14]. I have all of these new headlines and such, but I have no idea where to place these on the article, should I create a new section, like 'In the spotlight' 'or in the news' or something? Thanks. M Miah (talk) 14:29, 31 July 2008 (UTC)  Done

I think I have covered every single edit needed, if there are any concerns please do say. I am always willing to make changes from now, so if there please say, will nominate this article to a featured article, hopefully it does succeed. There is nothing more to add to this subject, so I think Wikipedia has done well in covering the Bangladeshis in the United Kingdom. M Miah (talk) 17:36, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd say, there's still more ground to cover. Check out the GA criteria and the FA criteria, to find out the principles and the measuring guides. On top of it, this peer review needs to be closed by a non-participant before you take it to WP:GAN. I'd also suggest that you cover the areas still unaddressed before you do it (the article is still pretty far from comprehensive). A thorough copyedit job would be helpful, too (brilliant prose makes everything easier). You have done an excellent job so far. Have a little more patience, and you'll surely have your FA. BTW, I have started to work on the article now. Will take a couple of days more. Please watch over the work. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 12:41, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Need to add list (by Kabir, please suggest structure for these, thanks.):

• Unemployment and poor education of youths  Done
• Bangladesh Voting rights changed in UK and abroad
• Add more information of new careers by new generation, out of curry.  Done