Wikipedia:Peer review/Ernest Joyce/archive1

Ernest Joyce

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A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for June 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I am requesting a peer review for this biographical article, which has been worked up from scratch. It deals with a somewhat controversial and unusual Antarctic explorer, a sort of Harry McNish (FA) figure, competent in his way, but often at odds with authority. Unlike the strong, silent heroes of Antarctic lore, Joyce was a tremendous boaster, who aggrandized his exploits and promoted himself as a hero. Yet he was undoubtedly a man to be trusted in the field, and brave, too—he received the Albert Medal for Lifesaving. I'd appreciate some general feedback, and any suggestions for improvement. Thanks, Brianboulton (talk) 16:27, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrfisch comments: I apologize I have been so slow in reviewing this - it is very good and while I have some suggestions they are nit picks.

A bit awkward From a humble seafaring background he began his naval career as a boy seaman in 1891, and ten years later joined Captain Scott's Discovery Expedition, 1901–04, as an Able Seaman. perhaps this would be better He came from a humble seafaring background, began his naval career as a boy seaman in 1891, and ten years later joined Captain Scott's Discovery Expedition, 1901–04, as an Able Seaman.
- I agree that your suggested rewording is better
Perhaps briefly identify Huntford in Roland Huntford sums him up as a "strange mixture of fraud, flamboyance and ability"[7]
- Done: "Polar chronicler..." (I don't want to call him an historian, because his objectivity in certain matters has been questioned. He is reckoned a good source on matters unconnected with Captain Scott).
Also a bit awkward He was born at Bognor, England in, it is thought, 1875, but the exact date is not known.[8] Perhaps just It is thought that he was born in 1875 at Bognor, England, but the exact date is not known.[8]
- Agreed and changed
I generally think the same ref for two or more consecutive sentences can just be one ref at the end (as long as nothing is too controversial or a quote), see ...he received a vocational education that would fit him for a lower-deck career in the Royal Navy.[11] Leaving the school in 1891, he joined the navy, aged fifteen, as a boy seaman, progressing during the next ten years to Ordinary Seaman and then Able Seaman.[11] Why not just the second note 11?
- Agreed and done
There are also some places where the footnote is in the middle of a sentence, not at the end of a phrase or after punctuation, as is more the custom, such as and in another version[37] Joyce was dropped when Mawson reduced his expedition from three shore parties to two.
- Done in this case - on the lookout for others
Any idea how much money was involved in this To join the expedition, Joyce bought his release from the Navy ... would it help to include it if known?
- Money details aren't in the main sources. I don't think this information is essential to the article, but it would be interesting to know, so I'll keep looking.
First mention of Great Ice Barrier does not identify it as the Ross Ice Shelf - the second mention does this nicely
- Shifted explanation to first mention
Would it be worth using Image:Mackintosh and Spencer-Smith.jpg in this article in The Depot-laying journey section - assume Joyce is either pictured or took the picture
- This image is actually a drawing done after the event. I've put it in, but I am conscious of the need to avoid crowding the text, so it's pretty small.
I think it might help to briefly expain why fresh meat cures scurvy and what snow blindness is
- I've linked snow blindness - and also frostbite. As to the fresh meat thing, this is covered by a slight textual change, and by an explanatory footnote (so as not to interrupt the main text).

Hope this helps, and let me know when this is at FAC as I will support, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:10, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for these useful comments and suggestions, which I have generally adopted. I was a little uncertain about this article's FA-worthiness, but as the Harry McNish precedent shows, minor polar figures can become FAs. If you think it is a suitable candidate, I'll certainly nominate it. Brianboulton (talk) 09:18, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It seems well beyond GA and I think it is FA. You might want to ask someone else to be sure, but I think it is FA worthy. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:54, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Finetooth comments:

This is a delightful and easy read about an interesting character. I changed a few bits of punctuation as I read, but I didn't see anything big to grumble about. Here is a very short list of suggestions for improvement.

I think this complex sentence in the Nimrod section might work better if re-cast or broken into two sentences: "In the ensuing months, he made further support journeys, increasing the depots to ensure the southern party's eventual safe return, including a cache of luxury foods taken to Minna Bluff, which earned Wild's spontaneous praise."

This one in the Imperial Trans-Antarctic section may also be a bit too complex: "However, the party, rather hurriedly assembled, was inexperienced for this work, with only Joyce and Mackintosh having previous Antarctic knowledge, Mackintosh's being slight."
- I've rearranged the prose for both of these unwieldy sentences.
I think the "W" in Richard W Richards should probably have a period after it even though the main article about him does not use one. This appears in the "Rescue" section.
- He's become Dick Richards, withthe aid of a pipe
You might consider breaking the long single paragraph in "Post-expedition career" into two paragraphs to ease the reading a bit.
- Done
On my computer monitor, the ISBNs in the "Sources" section are being split by line-break ("carriage return" in oldspeak). To prevent this, I'd suggest using hyphens as in 0-7869-1850-8.
- Done
In "Early years", the caption refers to "Naval Orphans" but the main text says "Navy Orphans". One or the other might be the official name but probably not both.
- corrected (Navy Orphans)

I hope these suggestions are helpful, and I agree that the article is FA-worthy. Finetooth (talk) 18:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for these suggestions, all of which have been implemented. Also for some useful copy-editing. Brianboulton (talk) 22:02, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]