Wikipedia:Peer review/Fyodor Dostoyevsky/archive2

Fyodor Dostoyevsky

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My goal is to get this article to FA-status. A user recommended to concentrate on getting it to that status, rather than GA-status. Regards. Tomcat (7) 17:44, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Truthkeeper88

Because I did the first peer review with feedback that I still believe to be valid, I won't do a full review this time, but because I've been watching this article for many many months through its various reviews I do have some suggestions that I'll add in the next day or so. Truthkeeper (talk) 18:03, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

General comments - these will be very general and I don't intend to go through the text line by line to pick out problems, but hopefully someone else will take on that task.

My feeling for a long time has been that the page suffers from structural issues. First, at c. 11,500 words it's too long and this is a case where WP:Length should be taken into consideration. Some suggestions:

Try to trim out around 2000 words.
Consider combining and trimming the details in the "Personal life" section (c. 900 words) into the general bio sections.

Merged his personality.--Tomcat (7) 12:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Consider combining and trimming the details in the "Beliefs" section (c. 1400 words) into the general bio sections.

Not done, the section was created because it seperates the details.--Tomcat (7) 12:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Evaluate each bit that in the general bio and consider pulling out anything that seems like a "factoid" and simply there for the sake of being there

Not sure what you mean.--Tomcat (7) 12:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Consider tightening and trimming the "Themes and style" section (c. 2200 words) (and the separate level 3 "Style" section is redundant), and maybe moving some of the material to subpages for the relevant works

Removed Style, Themes and Style is already a very brief summary.

Consider tightening and trimming the "Legacy" section

OK, perhaps some quotes are redundant.--Tomcat (7) 12:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Consider creating a separate Bibliography of Fyodor Dostoyevky's work page, move the list of work there, and then keep only a small bit of selected "best works"

No, because User:Khazar2 wanted to integrate summaries in the biography. You had told me to remove the sections, a decision with which I agree now.--Tomcat (7) 12:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For clarity, I don't particularly mind where the information on his major works appears; I just meant it needs to appear somewhere in the article, particularly for an article that's so long and detailed. -- Khazar2 (talk) 15:30, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If much of the biography can be trimmed down, then it would be possible to stream in a section about his works. A good example of a biography that does this is Vincent van Gogh - a page that did achieve GA status.

His works are already described everywhere. Gogh was a painter.--Tomcat (7) 12:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A random example of a paragraph that could use some trimming is here: "On 27 September 1837 Dostoyevsky's mother died of tuberculosis. He contracted a serious throat disease soon after, giving him a brittle voice throughout his life. The previous May his parents had sent Fyodor and his brother Mikhail to St Petersburg to attend the Nikolayev Military Engineering Institute, forcing the brothers to abandon their academic studies at the Moscow college for a military career.[note] On the way to St Petersburg, Dostoyevsky witnessed a violent incident in a post house: a member of the military police beat a carter, who subsequently took out his anger on his horse, whipping it. He referred to this incident in his serial A Writer's Diary. Dostoyevsky entered the academy in 1838, but only with the help of family members, who – unknown to him – had paid the tuition fees. Mikhail was refused admission on account of his poor health, which was the reason why Mikhail was sent to the Academy in Reval, Estonia; he was separated from his brother.[12][13]" > The details aren't tied together well and some can be tossed. Did his mother's death cause the throat infection (infection or disease?) and brittle voice? Can this be shoved into a note? The violent incident is too detailed and I'd suggest staying focused on the events at hand - mother's death, schooling, etc,. - and move the violent incident material A Writer's Diary page. Very confusing that he was sent away, tuition paid, but not admitted. If it's confusing, perhaps streamline and present simply as possible using WP:Summary style

Done--Tomcat (7) 12:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Finally, a personal suggestion to Tomcat - try to step away for a time to regain perspective. Work on other pages for a month or so, and then come back to this.

Hope these suggestions are helpful and that someone else takes on a full review. I know and understand the difficulties involved in writing core biographies and I do see progress being made here. Good luck. Truthkeeper (talk) 17:06, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think the Criticism section should be removed? Regards.--Tomcat (7) 12:43, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rename the "Legacy" section to "Legacy and reception" and add the criticism there. And then trim down as much as possible. I'm unwatching here now to allow someone else to do a full PR. Truthkeeper (talk) 13:40, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]