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Hardwicke Rawnsley

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The Rev Hardwicke Rawnsley was one of the three founders of Britain's National Trust. This year is the centenary of his death and I want to get his article up to the highest possible standard in time for the anniversary in May. I have to declare an interest, as his church in Keswick is by way of being my family's parish church, but to balance that I hope to get his two co-founders up to standard in due course. Meanwhile, I hope reviewers will enjoy this article on the unstoppable Rawnsley, known as "the most active volcano in Europe", and I look forward to any suggestions for improvement. Tim riley talk 19:04, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gog the Mild

Suggestions only. Make of them what you will.

"was an Anglican priest, and a poet, local politician and conservationist" "and" twice jars a little.

True, but without the first "and" he becomes an Anglican poet and politician etc, which isn't what I'm trying to say. Tim riley talk

"It grew to become one of the country's largest and most important landowners" Possibly "country's" → 'UK's'?
"publishing more than 40 books of verse, sermons" Maybe 'publishing more than 40 books: including verse, sermons'
"staying at Grasmere" Maybe 'staying in the village of Grasmere'.
"was ordained deacon" I hesitate to suggest this, but to me it reads as if it is in want of an 'a'.

No, this is the usual form. I suppose comparisons might be "was crowned king" or "was elected president". Tim riley talk 22:19, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Good to see another St Werburgh's Church, there is a rather fine one in Derby - St Werburgh's Church, Derby.
"attempted to block access across two paths" A bit of a mix there. 'block access to the paths'? 'locked the paths'? 'block access along the paths'?
"Eight years into his thirty-four-year incumbency at Crosthwaite, Rawnsley was appointed as an honorary canon of Carlisle Cathedral in 1891" the "Eight years into his thirty-four-year incumbency at Crosthwaite" reads oddly. No one would have known htat at the time, and you give the year later in the sentence, so it seems superfluous.
"he promoted a mobile dairy hygiene unit. Its mobile horse-drawn dairies" Lose the second "mobile"?
"opened in 1896 and (2020) continues as Newton Rigg College" I had to read that three times before I realised that there was an implied 'as of'.
"Was 900 ft really described as mountainous?

Technically I believe a mountain is, or used to be, defined as a hill over 1,000 feet, but "hill air" doesn't really work, I think. Alternative suggestions welcome. Tim riley talk

It is the most minor of points. I mostly note it as a hobby is walking to the tops of the highest peaks in Scotland - 4,000 ft +. This is known as hillwalking. However, since you ask, it works fine for me with "mountain" simply deleted. Gog the Mild (talk) 23:35, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"and went to Egypt when their son was working in Sir Flinders Petrie's archaeological team" 'working there, in ... ' perhaps?
"Eleanor wrote his biography, published by his regular publisher, MacLehose, in 1923." This seems oddly situated. Would it not be better at the end of the next paragraph?
"with a lifetime lease to Eleanor who lived there until her death in 1959" Comma after Eleanor?

A cracking set of photographs. And a fine article. It didn't need PR - get it into FAC! Gog the Mild (talk) 22:40, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much, Gog. I'l enjoy working through these. I can see already that there are some bulls-eyes there. Tim riley talk 13:18, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And now done. All points acted on except where noted above. Some v. helpful comments there – thank you. Tim riley talk 22:19, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wehwalt

I can find few things to criticise in this high-quality work.

There is a missing citation following the quote at the ending of the first paragraph of "Early years"
"After leaving Oxford, Rawnsley went to work in the parish of St Mary's, Soho, in an insalubrious part of London, known for prostitution and poverty.[18] He was appointed lay-chaplain to the Newport Market Refuge in Crown Street, a hostel for the destitute.[19] " Are these sentences in the right chronological order? The appointment preceded the going to work, I'd imagine.
"To accommodate the increased numbers of students Rawnsley raised funds for a purpose-built home for the school, adjacent to the River Greta." I might suggest a comma after "students".
"But he was never a prohibitionist: after returning from a tour of French vineyards he wrote to The Times protesting against Britain's high tax on the importation of French wine, which he saw as unfair and as contributing to rural poverty in France.[81]" Possibly "tariff" for "tax"?
"He lost his seat on the council in 1895, the vote probably tipped by objections to his firm stance on public houses and alcohol licensing.[85]" This has the slight feeling of admiration inadvertently sneaking in.
Is more known about his visit to the US? It would be interesting to know (and to name drop) if he met leading political figures, or leading conservationists.
I might make a bit more mention of his writing of books as you go along. Most mention is in the lede or towards the very end.

That's it, interesting article.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:51, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent! Thank you, Wehwalt. I can see straight away there are some bull's-eyes there, and will work through your suggestions with much pleasure. (Though I take umbrage at the suggestion that I, of all people, might approve of someone for trying to close the pubs, but we waive that point; we do not press it; we look over it.) Tim riley talk 17:18, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SC

Early years

The Vivian Griffiths quote needs a citation
Oscar undertook manual labour? I best he didn't boast about that to the aesthetes!

Crosthwaite

'... it" (Griffiths).[61]' I'm not a fan of the mention in brackets: what's wrong with "writes Griffiths", or similar?

National Trust

The Rawnsley quote in the box shouldn't have quote marks
Should "105 acre" be hyphenated?

Lovely article and a pleasure to read. Much more wholesome than writing about pornographers, although I see even Rawnsley worked in Soho for a spell (perhaps I should ask for more about the history of links of the area with prostitution... well, maybe not!) Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 17:46, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cass

Ref 70 and 71 will need combining (Bott. p.105)

Usernameunique

Lead

Not sure "died in 1920" is needed, given that the date of death is in the first paragraph

Early years

[3] — 2009 retrieval of a 2020 source, very impressive!
[n 1] — Did the four sisters do anything notable? Although given the times, perhaps a better question would be whether any married anyone notable.
In the first paragraph, should the period after the quotation be before the quotation mark, given that it looks like you're quoting a full sentence?

Campaigning against railway development

Coleridge had written ... and Wordsworth had written of its beauty in a poem. — Why no first name for Coleridge? It's confusing to those of us who don't recognize the name immediately, as it sounds as if he's been introduced earlier in the article. Also, what's the title of the Wordsworth poem, and maybe worth also citing to a book in which it appears?
the Wordsworth Society — What's this? When/how was it founded?

County Councillor

Of the three people who later founded the National Trust, Rawnsley ... — This is the first time the National Trust is mentioned in the body of the article. I would save it for the next section, or put in a footnote somewhere instead.

National Trust

Looks like the "During" doesn't actually begin that sentence. "[D]uring" would work, or just including the full thing.
Derwentwater 1908 — Looks like an errant "1908", but just checking.

Later years

In 1898 Rawnsley was offered the bishopric of Madagascar — Seems a somewhat random offer. Was that definitely an offer of a promotion, or any chance the above-mentioned "conservative hierarchy of the ... church" was trying to get him out of their hair?
Cathedral Close. — Is "Close" capitalized for a reason? Any reason not to link the full phrase?
Among the volunteers was his son, Noel, who survived the war. — Sounds a bit like "among the people who fought was someone who lived." A noteworthy feat given the number of casualties in World War I, but is anything else of his service known? For that matter, did he do anything else in later life (besides comment on his father and Beatrix Potter) worth mentioning?
Rawnsley suffered a heart attack and died at Allan Bank on 28 May 1920, after a brief illness — I'm assuming the heart attack brought on the brief illness?

References

How do you feel about sfn footnotes?
Any reason for all the "and"s? E.g., "Rawnsley (1923), pp. 2 and 4; Ricks, pp. 22 and 54; and Griffiths, p. 68" could be "Rawnsley (1923), pp. 2, 4; Ricks, pp. 22, 54; Griffiths, p. 68"
#4: Is there no better source for this?
#5–8, 17, 26, 29–30, 64, 66, 78, 83, 87, 95–98, 100–101, 104: Are any of these articles available online (i.e., could you link to a copy of them)? Many will be out of copyright.
#95: Is the hyphen correct? It doesn't appear in the article on the magazine (although it appears in the title of one of the sources in that article): Wesleyan Methodist Magazine. Also, could British Architect be appropriately linked to Building (magazine)?

Overall

Very impressive article, Tim riley. I'm sorry it took so long for me to add to the review, but, from my perspective at least, it was well worth the wait; it's interesting to see how the one thing I knew about Rawnsley—his involvement with the Keswick School of Industrial Art—was really just one act among his many. Comments are above and suggested edits have been made to the article. As a general matter, the article tends to be somewhat prose-y in places, which I could see some commenting on at FAC. But that's not a big deal as far as I'm concerned.

On another note, any chance you've come across any information about Edith Maryon's bronze relief of Rawnsley (see Works of Edith Maryon)? I doubt it, but thought I'd ask. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:27, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for these points, which I'll enjoy working through. I'll gladly have a scout about for the Maryon bronze of HDR and will report back on your talk page. Tim riley talk 18:57, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]