Wikipedia:Peer review/Jhalkaribai/archive1

Jhalkaribai

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I've listed this article for peer review as I want to get it checked it once by fresh and unbiased eyes for MoS, references, appropriate sections, comprehensiveness of the article, and any other suggestions that would help to raise this article to GA level.

This article can also come within the scope of other topics such as biography, military history, etc., but I have added it to social sciences and society because the importance of her image in sociopolitical scenario in North India.

Thanks, Shivashree · talk 04:16, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For completeness, more details about her life are needed: death date, death of husband etc. See:
- http://www.rediff.com/freedom/09jhalk.htm
- http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020908/herworld.htm#2
Also her biographies may provide these details.
Her death day is celebrated as matyrs day On what date?
Why is the French book given as a link, when it is not used?--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 07:39, 21 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking time to reviewing the article.

~~I will check the sites you provided and try to add some more information to the article this weekend (I cannot check them right now because of some technical problems).~~

Done. Not much info available other than a disputed date of year 1890.

About biographies: Some of her biographies I read seem to be written without much research and study. A few of them state her date of death as April 4, 1857 (one year before the battle of Jhansi), others state it as April 4, 1858 (during the battle, which suites her image projected by BSP), and Vrindawanlal Varma (1951) states she died as an old woman (did not give an exact date). Hindi wikipedia notes the date of death as April 4, 1857.
Martyrs Day: I found the reference to Martyr's Day in Badri Narayan's book (he too does not give the date). I have asked this question on Hindi Wikipedia. They already have an article about Jhalkaribai that was shown on Main Page in the past. I am waiting answer from them. (see this).
French book: The French book in the references has a complete chapter about Jhalkaribai and importance of her image in socio-political situation of Uttar Pradesh. I wanted to use it as a reference for legacy section, but could not use it because of language problem. It can be moved in a separate section Further reading, but then there would be only one name in that section. Your opinion requested.

Thanks once again Redtigerxyz. I appreciate your experience on Wikipedia and your help will be greatly appreciated. Shivashree · talk 04:05, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by H1nkles

Thank you for taking the time to improve this article. I'll provide some comments to try and help bring it up to GA standards.

I did some prose edits in the lead. It will be important to tighten up the prose. I noted several instances when too many words were used to say something that could have been communicated in a much simpler fashion. I also corrected some grammatical mistakes. Consider having someone do a thorough copy edit before submitting to GAC.

Thanks for making edits to the lead. It would be really helpful if you can check it once with fresh eyes for copyedit or ask someone to do so.

One of the GA requirements is to have an image whenever possible. Is there a free image that could be inserted, especially in the info box?

I am searching for such image, but as the subject is historical and was not included in the mainstream history for a long while, it is not an easy task. I could find no good image of her searching on google images, flickr, etc. Hindi Wikipedia uses the image of postal stamp depicting her. I am afraid that we cannot do that because of non-free fair use rationale policy. I have left messages on the talk pages of a few users who seem to be from Bundelkhand who can take a photograph of her statue at Jhansi (which would be a photograph of 3D statue, hence public domain). I have got no response yet.

I agree with Redtigerxyz that a date of death is very important. The article will be incomplete without this, even if it is a speculation with a reference of course.

I have added the year of death with the following note:

"When Jhalkari Bai fought as Lakshmi Bai". Tribune India. Retrieved March 26, 2010. There is a dispute about the exact date of death of Jhalkaribai. This article states "Jhalkaribai, it is said, , lived till 1890 and became a legend in her time." Though there are others such as "Virangana Jhalkaribai" (in hindi). Retrieved March 26, 2010., which quotes Mr. Nareshchandra Koli stating her date of death as April 4, 1857. Sarala (1999) notes that she died in the battle following her disguise incident suggesting the date April 4, 1858. Varma & Sahaya (2001) notes that she died as a very old woman without giving any exact date of death.

Please feel free to make any changes in sentence construction.

Life

"Jhalkaribai was a daughter of a Kori farmer father Sadovar Singh and Jamuna Devi."

Here is an example of poor prose. Remove the word "father". It jumbles to subject. Instead say, "Jhalkaribai was a daughter of Kori farmers, Sadovar Singh and Jamuna Devi." Much simpler and to the point.

Done.

Your vocabulary is very good, but there are a lot of little grammatical mistakes that must be fixed before it can pass to GA. I did some work in the first paragraph as an example.

Thanks for compliment about vocabulary. Frankly, I am not that much comfortable with sentence constructions in English, though I will try to fix the errors.

"Jhalkaribai bore an uncanny resemblance with Rani (queen) Laxmibai."

Move this sentence to the next paragraph where you discuss the battle in which she disguises herself as the queen. Where it currently is located is the first sentence of the second paragraph. The first sentence of a paragraph is usually the subject of the paragraph, with the subsequent sentences supporting this subject. The rest of the second paragraph is about whom she married, her introduction to the queen and her start in the military. No connection to her resemblance to the queen.

One sentence paragraphs (stubs) are discouraged. Is there any information on her past the incident of her disguise as the queen? This is a gaping hole in the article and will frankly make it difficult to get through GA Candidacy without a lot of explanation.

Historiography

"Even the Indian authors did mention her." I think you mean did not mention her right?

done.

The word, "mention" is used too often in this section. Please consider synonyms.

There were 9 "mentions" in that paragraph. I am trying to bring this number down. I have brought it to 6 now; I am looking for may be 3 or 4 if possible. The Merriam Webster give the synonyms cite, instance, name, and specify. Antonyms are disregard, ignore, neglect, pass by, pass over, and slight. If you can suggest proper usage of some of these.

What social situation is demanding a reconstruction of her image? This could be expanded.

Legacy

Why refer to her story as a myth in the second paragraph? It gives the sense that her acts have been exagerrated or at least fictionalized to a degree. Consider another word.

What about the word "legend"? Merriam Webster defines it as "a story coming down from the past; especially : one popularly regarded as historical although not verifiable"

If there is a death day celebration then it should be fairly easy to come up with a date of death.

As far as I know, it is celebrated on April 4 each year. I am looking for a firm reference.

Notes and references

I created a new section for References, this is a more common format for citing material.

Thanks.

Otherwise your references look good.

Thanks once again. I think my efforts deserve this comment.

Overall

I think it would be good to explain a little bit about the socio-political situation that Jhalkaribai was operating in. You should answer the question why she was fighting? It's alluded to that India was fighting for independence but something more clear and spelled out would help the reader.
As I said previously, more information about her life after the battle she is most known for will be important along with information about her family (kids?), and her death (date and circumstances).
A copy edit is in order as well as an image if possible.
I think overall the article is on the right track. It just needs some more expansion and fine tuning. Perhaps the sources that Redtigerxyz provided above will help. Thanks for your contributions and happy editing. H1nkles _{citius altius fortius} 20:50, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks H1nkles for taking your time for making a detailed review. I have made some changes and I am looking for some more references and an image. I will try to fix the grammatical problems, but please feel free to make the changes yourself or at least suggest me the changes (as you have already suggested a few in this review). Thanks once again. The article is work under progress yet. Indeed, it is on the right track, but it needs to go long before nominating it for GA. Shivashree · talk 03:38, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]